Phriday Phillies Links Phor You: May 7, 2010 - Goodbye, Robin Roberts; The Rest Are Details
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 7:36 AM EDT
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When Robin Roberts went to Cooperstown in 1976, it had been nearly 40 years since a Phillies pitcher was inducted into the Hall of Fame (Grover Cleveland Alexander was enshrined in 1938), a testament to both Roberts' individual greatness and the pathos that once was the Philadelphia Phillies. If Kyle Kendrick does nothing else in his career, I will always have a kind thought that his improbable win on Wednesday versus the mighty Cardinals was the last game Roberts saw on Earth.
You were good, Whiz Kid. Rest in peace.
I am just very thrilled to be here this day. The Hall of Fame people I’d like to say were very nice. I only had one request for them that they turned down. I asked Kenny Smith if he didn’t think it would be appropriate if I would invite everyone that ever hit a home run off me to be here today. And Kenny said Cooperstown wasn’t big enough. But I am going to have little cards made up that say, "I hit a home run off Robbie" and mail it to all those gentlemen because I’m sure they’d like to have it in their wallet. There was a lot of them, by the way.
Robin Evan Roberts
Philadelphia N.L., Baltimore A.L., Houston N.L., Chicago N.L.
1948-66Tireless worker who never missed a start in decade of the fifties. Won 286 over 19 year career. Won 20 games 6 years in a row for Philadelphia Whiz Kids. Led N.L. in innings pitched, 1951-55 and in complete games, 1952-56. Started 5 All-Star Games. Major League Player of the Year, 1952 and 1955.
Phillies jersey No. 36 will be hung in the team's dugout during games for the remainder of the season, that players will wear No. 36 patches on the right sleeves of their uniforms beginning Friday, and that the 1950 pennant will be hung at half-staff at Citizens Bank Park.
Halladay, Werth Pay Tribute to Roberts in Phillies Victory.
Fun fact: Werth and Roberts both come from Springfield, Illinois, where Roberts played semi-pro ball with Werth's great-grandfather, who came from Delaware County. Huh.
So when Werth homered in the first inning, he pointed to the sky as he crossed home plate.
"I don't usually do that sort of thing," Werth said. "Definitely Robin was on the thoughts and hearts of many people today. As I was coming around third, I definitely had him on my mind. That was big ups to Robin right there."
The other links are just details today. Jump for more.
Fitzpatrick: A bright star in a dark era. This is my favorite tribute to Roberts. Please read.
Many years later, when I was this paper's Phillies beat writer, I met Roberts again in Clearwater, Fla. After I'd gotten the answers I needed for a story, I got the nerve to ask him how he'd been able to pitch so well for teams that were so bad.
"Frank," he said in a tone that suggested I'd be wise to listen carefully, "if you worked for a newspaper that wasn't as good as The Inquirer, would your stories be any different? It's all about pride in your work. And in yourself."
Lyon: The complete pitcher. You'll have to bear with the Old Guard lamenting the death of the complete-game pitcher today. Left to us will be the task of writing obituaries of the thousands of guys whose arms with normal human physiology were shredded before they were out of A ball.
Conlin: Recalling Roberts' 17-inning complete game.
Now, I want all you pitch-count advocates to cover your eyes. And if you're coaching your Little League kid to be the next 75-pitch wonder, hide the newspaper, the laptop or the iPod.
Sure, Bill, but what's a newspaper?
Rollins sent to Fla. for rehab work. Good news! His right calf has already submitted to a higher authority. (Note: this was yesterday's link, and I apologize, as WC placed the call to the linkpen and I was snoozing when the phone rang. I got no hustle, skip, no heart neither.)
Braves-Phillies preview. And matchups. I would have to be going to tonight's game, of course, as with the exception of last Saturday's gem, I've been on the Kendrick and Moyer ticket plan. I'm bringing my palm to welcome sweet Jeebus, April Rookie of the Month to Philadelphia.
Friday at 7:05 p.m. RHP Derek Lowe (4-2, 5.18 ERA) vs. LHP Jamie Moyer (3-2, 5.70).
Saturday at 3:10 p.m. RHP Kris Medlen (1-1, 2.55) vs. RHP Joe Blanton (0-1, 5.40).
Sunday at 1:35 p.m. RHP Kenshin Kawakami (0-5, 5.47) vs. LHP Cole Hamels (2-2, 4.42).
Phillies Notebook: Romero eager to see action. Cue ominous music? Oh, and sux for you, Cody Ransom:
Manuel said Castro will likely miss tonight's game against the Braves, but is not expected to be sidelined for a lengthy amount of time.
The price isn't right anymore for fans. They vow they can stop anytime they want, so they're staying away in droves. Oh, wait.
TIgers fans say goodbye to Ernie Harwell. All day long at Comerica, fans filed by. Idle thought, but I wonder how guys like Tom McCarthy and Chris Wheeler make sense of these tributes.
NL East:
Braves Battle Back in 8th, but Fall 3-2 in the 9th. (Talking Chop). Braves were no hit through 7 1/3 innings by the Nats' improbable Scott Olsen. Tough loss for the Braves, who send Derek Lowe to the mound tonight against Jamie Moyer.
Giants sweep Marlins, 6-3. (mlb.com). Matt Cain held the Marlins hitless until the 6th (and from the looks of the video highlights, fanless the entire game), and old buddy Aaron Rowand is a one-man wrecking crew these days.
Someone Help the Mets (FanGraphs). For you fans of Mets schadenfreude. You know who you are. So click it already!
Minor Leagues:
Columbus 10, Lehigh Valley 5. John Mayberry and Cody Ransom homered for the Pigs.
Portland 7, Reading 6. Tyson Gillies 3-5 with a stolen base to hike his average to .242. Homestand begins with fireworks tonight in Baseballtown!
Lakewood 7, Charleston 2. Anthony Hewitt with three hits, Brody Colvin with his second pro win.
Clearwater 4, Daytona 1. Don't look now, but the Threshers are tearing up the FSL at a 19-8 clip. Trevor May, who now has a 2.25 ERA, 8/35 BB/K ratio, won the game yesterday.
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Do we have anyone here that's NOT a fan of Mets schadenfreude?
If so, please leave. You don’t belong here ;)
The beginning of Roberts’ induction speech should be required reading for everyone getting elected to a Hall of Fame. We know you’re a good player, but show that you know you weren’t perfect, and be willing to engage in some jokes that aren’t at the expense of others (I’m looking at you, MJ).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Great work, WL.
I had the Mariners/Rays game on late last night, and the M’s play-by-play guy Dave Sims, a Philly native, spent a good 5 minutes talking about Robin Roberts. He told a story about when he was at Chestnut Hill Academy (Roberts used to coach or assistant coach high school ball in Philly, can’t remember exactly), and he failed to run out a ground ball at full speed. He said Robin took him aside, put his hands on Sims’ shoulders and said something along the lines of, “Son, you need to run that out every time.” Sims laughed and said that he’d never lollygagged down the first base line again, and went on to talk about what a great man and a gentleman Roberts was.
Lyon
Best part from the Lyon piece, at the very end:
The last time we talked, six months ago, in the heart of the postseason, Cole Hamels walked past, slumped in despair, locked in doubt, wondering how it was that the champagne had turned to vinegar. The others were giving him a wide berth, just in case whatever he had was contagious.
But not Robby.
“Hey, Lefthander,” he called.
Hamels looked up, warily, braced for yet another critique.
“Don’t forget,” Robby said, “just how good you are.”
Sooner or later, you are pleased to see, class really does reveal itself.
There’s a name for it: Gentleman.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
If you’re feeling confident in your status as a first-class, first-rate whatever, I’d wager you wouldn’t deign to spend time or effort relegating the second class to the back of the bus, unless, of course, you were sublimating your anger about your own shortcomings. There, I said it.
As for your 27 trophies, the Axis probably conquered 27 countries in the 1930s and 1940s. If the rest of the world is still earnestly at work on your demise, I suggest you look in the mirror.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
oops, I meant that to be the reply to doubleh below.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yankees fans just have to crap on everything. Dogs.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF is this guy?
When have we EVER tried to be NY? Link here.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
New York blah blah blah, Philadelphia blah blah blah.
I think a person who was really confident in his own city’s “superiority” (whatever that means) wouldn’t have felt compelled to write that whiny-ass post.
I actually felt compelled to reply to that piece of shit. I probably shouldn’t have, but I am going through a rough time with buying a house right now and I have a major work function next week and that fucking crap just put me through the roof!
The thing that always bothers me is when they point out the “cracked bell.” WTF? Oh, you mean the symbol of your freedom, asshole? That little thing?
That was some of the most juvenile rambling, too—I think a 5th grader could have constructed more coherent sentences.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
If we give in to anger, then the terrorists win! That’s what they want!
But no worries. It’s not like anyone actually reads that blog anyway.
I know, but I tried to be level-headed in my reply, except for the part where I debunked his theory that if it weren’t for the Mets being so bad and essentially “giving” the division title to the Phillies (fallacy) and allowing for their rise to success. As my friend would say, “Ah, bitterness, wrapped in creamy nougat.”
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Silva
Hmm, Mike Silva was really nice to my face when I met him at that Bloomberg Sports roll-out a few months ago… sat at the same table, had lunch, chatted, etc. Maybe he just saves the invective for his blog? That’s his right, of course; Xenu knows I’ve indulged in it.
Generally that whole event was funny because everyone would approach each other assuming Mets or Yankees allegiance and then they’d start talking shit on the Phillies. Until I told them where I blog. Then it was all, “Oh, but you’re different than the others…” in the classic Bigot Cover Maneuver. Sometimes being 6’4", 210 lbs. has its perks.
Their obsession with our inferiority complex is wrapping around on itself to become a “meta-complex” of sorts.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Yep
That’s what I get from my Pittsburgh fans, too. You’re different from the others. I say, that’s what racists tell black people that are their friends. Why is this kind of ism - let’s call it fanbaseism (cuz there’s no word for it) — so widely accepted?
I told Silva that you need Philly to be your villain so you can feel better about yourselves. I really think that’s the root of all this superiorty stuff. While I do believe that it’s true that Philly has an inferiority complex to NY (much in the same way Pitt does with us), I certainly don’t think we look for their approval whenever we do well for ourselves. I think the general population is more like, “Take that, NY, and shove it up your egotistical ass.”
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
In two (maybe even three) of the four major sports, the New York team isn’t even our main rival. Of course we don’t like them very much, but who does? Meta-complex is a good way to put it.
WC is 6’4"? I had imagined WL being the biggest of the blog lords, just because of the Luzinski image I guess.
I’m up there, 6’2", so we should have a strong front court.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If we ever formed a TGP basketball team, I’d have to be the scrappy point guard or something – I’m 5’9" in dress shoes.
I actually did play on a intravarsity team where I was a freaking small forward, because our team was short. Only two guys were over 6’, and we had five guys under 5’8".
Honor is no substitute for victory.
rrrrrrrr....
that link really pisses me off. Maybe we could throw him on the field next time he’s at a Philly game and get the cops to tase him repeatedly… Or better yet, maybe let Philly Blunt work him over…
by Boundforbeach on May 7, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the guy who regularly tweets stuff like this. The sad thing is that we’re just driving up his page views, which is exactly what he wants. He’s like the Locke-ness Monster on Lost: this was his plan all along, and we’re falling hook, line and sinker for it…
I like that the blog post is a response to an article that was a response to a pair of READER COMMENTS to a newspaper that reports on the Phils AAA franchise.
From his LinkedIn profile, he claims to offer “a New York baseball show that complements the mainstream outlets of ESPN and WFAN”.
I’m glad someone finally stepped up to the plate. This is a true vacuum in the current spectrum of available media. Can I volunteer to step up to be the official blog lord in charge of reporting on and reacting to reader comments on the Scranton Times website?
I’ve never really understood the “second class fans” approach. Being a fan is really an either/or scenario — you are a fan of a team, or you’re not. The actions of fans really don’t dictate what kind of fan they are as much as they dictate what kind of person they are, so what’s the point?
I guess, in other words, I don’t really understand what would even constitute the “second class” of fans. It’s just bizarrely unspecific.
Well, it’s the usual addendum to “second-rate city” stuff they spew. I never understood why they would need to point out another city’s inferiority to theirs unless they don’t believe their own city can stand on its own as a mecca of culture, politics and success as they so frequently remind us.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Yeah, I guess it’s not worth thinking too far into. I guess it’s just stood out to me as the strangest of those three insults. At least with the others come weak statistics — “biggest city in the world!” “27 world series championships!” — as opposed to weird reactionary justifications. You’re right, though, it’s all pretty reactionary.
So anyway, Trevor May! Tyson Gillies! Good stuff there.
Our player development people are much smarter than the Cubs’.
I was only a little worried about Gillies because he was coming from High Desert last year, which is to hitting baseballs what Smirnoff Ice is to sleeping with college girls — makes it way, way too easy. Reading is a moderate hitters’ park, but I believe High Desert is actually the best hitters’ park in professional baseball.
High elevation + dry air + prevailing “wind tunnel” at hitter’s back
http://www.thegoodphight.com
FWIW
I believe balls carry better in humid air than dry air. Not that High Desert isn’t still a great hitter’s park.
yeah
It is often thought that humid air is more dense than dry air. In fact, it is just the opposite: humid air is less dense than dry air for the simple reason that a water molecule weighs less than an air molecule.
from: http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/Denver.html
high altitude and heat probably have a greater proportional effect, though
I don’t have current numbers, but High Desert wasn’t the top hitters park in 2007.
High Desert was 1.13/1.06/1.03/1.15
Albuquerque was 1.20/1.09/1.15/1.15
Asheville was 1.15/1.07/1.19/1.15
Jamestown was 1.14/1.06/1.04/1.29
Lancaster was 1.19/1.08/1.08/1.20
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I haven’t seen 2009 numbers yet. Clearwater in 2008 was 0.94/0.98/0.97/1.11. The 2006-2008 average for Clearwater was 0.97/0.98/1.00/1.09
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Thanks. I missed that you said 2007 above.
So, if we assume the 2009 factors were roughly equal to the factors circa 2007, and that the differences between the two leagues’s road factors were about equal to the differences between the home factors of HD and CW, then Gillies would have hit about:
498 AB, 89 R, 157 H (.315 instead of .341), 17 2B, 9 HR (no change in the 2B and HR)
But maybe I’m not doing that right.
Do park factors affect walks?
Not quite the same, due to league factors, which I don’t think those numbers take into account. Minor League Splits suggests that Gillies’ line would have been:
508 AB, 79 R, 149 H (.294/.360/.420), 16 2B, 13 3B, 7 HR, 32 RBI, 37 BB, 85 K, 39 SB, 20 CS, 15 HBP
I also hadn’t noticed until looking at his stats, but maybe we should start calling Gillies Baby Utley – he gets plonked a lot.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
We better keep an eye on the Clearwater Threshers. Austin Hyatt and Trevor May are ranked 9th and 11th in the FSL for pitching, which is great.
On the offensive side, Matthew Rizzotti and Cody Overbeck are 1-2 in batting.
Not that everyone makes it, but the season 2nd place finisher in 2006 was Adam Lind.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
With the way May’s pitching (at age 20 in High-A ball), I wonder if he’s close to cracking Top 100 lists.
May’s also tied for second in strikeouts, with 39 in 24 innings. The leader is Charlotte’s Matt Moore, who has 40 in 26 1/3 innings.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Hyatt is an enigma. Most people are really lukewarm on him as a prospect.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
The Braves are officially the whiniest bitches in MLB. After Scott Olsen almost no-hit them, this is what they had to say:
“Let’s be honest,” he doesn’t have “no hit stuff.” —Tim Hudson
Asked about Matt Diaz(notes) striking out three times looking, Cox said: “He got called out on some bad pitches.”
“I think if that would have happened,” Jones said, “you probably have to put us all on a suicide watch.”
These guys have a serious case of chronic pussy-itis that makes them unable to take accountability for sucking. I hate the Braves more than I hate the Mets.
The Braves’ players and coaches are definitely more hateable than the Mets’ players and coaches.
On the other hand, the Mets’ fans are more hateable than the Braves’ fans, seeing as how the Braves have no fans.
The Braves had the 4th highest road attendence from 2001-2009. Just an FYI for you guys.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2010 3:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess not. Atlanta is in the southeast and everyone knows that’s football country. Georgia, Alabama, Florida, etc. are college football central. Hell even the Tamba Bay Rays struggle to bring in a bunch of fans on a nightly basis and they’re the best team in baseball.
The Braves have a ton of fans across the country, but not too many of them live in Atlanta. Some do, but they’re much more spread out than most people think.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Turner Broadcasting is responsible for that, too. See below.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Right. But back to the point of why I’m even over here…
seeing as how the Braves have no fans.
That’s not true.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said that. Reply to the person who said it.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
The Braves’ players and coaches are definitely more hateable than the Mets’ players and coaches.
On the other hand, the Mets’ fans are more hateable than the Braves’ fans, seeing as how the Braves have no fans.
by taco pal on May 7, 2010 9:50 AM MST
and I replied…
The Braves had the 4th highest road attendence from 2001-2009. Just an FYI for you guys.
by mvhsbball on May 7, 2010 12:25 PM MST
You responded to my original reply to taco pal. I never said you said that.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just trying to help taco pal out. I’ll leave now.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I live in Raleigh, NC and the Braves were lucky to be owned by Turner, so every podunk town with no MLB team saw the Braves more than anyone else and ended up fans. Poor bastards.
Well it’s natural for fans to like teams that win, have star players and are on TV all the time. I mean, imagine if the Phillies would have kept Cliff Lee and had a 1-2-3 of Halladay, Lee and Hamels. That’s still not even close to what Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz brought in the 90s and early 2000s when the Braves were always on TBS. It’s not really hard to figure why they gained so many fans with Turner backing them up.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Chipper’s quote is beyond the pale. What are they doing saying this stuff to the press?
I’ve read interesting research by Marty Seligman (Learned Optimism) and others that study team resilience, and teams with a discourse style that looks outward to explain poor results rather than one that dwells on their own poor performance have a higher with higher winning percentages (correlation here, clearly). However, you can also say – the guy pitched well, and leave it at that. Olsen hits people. They better watch it.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It occurs to me that maybe everybody in the game just hates Olsen, and maybe that’s part of what’s driving the comments here. Of course, the Braves are generally whiny excuse-makers, so it’s a multicausal explanation.
Some Braves fans who’ve come on here have noted before that this is the Braves/Cox’ method of instilling the team with more confidence. It’s always “someone else’s fault,” or something outside of their control which causes them to lose. It’s never their actual performance. While this may lead to higher winning percentages, it also leads to serious self-delusion. They end up thinking that they are better than they are and that’s sure to get your ass kicked come September and October. Just ask the Dodgers.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
It worked wonderfully in the 90’s when with that pitching staff they should have walked off with at least 3 or 4 World Series trophies.
The Yankees model seems to get good results. One ace, a decent #2 and #3 and plenty of guys who can hit the piss out of the ball, and a decent bull pen. Let’s just say decent bull pen for simplicity’s sake. (avoiding the closer debate). I think we follow this and I like it …..although the bull pen this year is a big one of these "?’’.
Who else has started five all star games? That speaks volumes about Roberts.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on May 7, 2010 2:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
BTW, I’d like to point out that I am about to descend into the abyss that is my company’s yearly National Sales Meeting (which as a member of the marketing team, I help to assemble and run) ; since we have offices in NY, Boston, LA, TX, DC, I am about to take my fair share of ribbing of my Yankees fan boss and all the various Met fans.
Anybody have any good comebacks or zingers for me to defend myself from these douchebags?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Not necessarily a comeback or zinger, but the Phillies had a Hall of Fame pitcher (Grover Cleveland Alexander) before the Yankees were the Yankees. Alexander was a Phil in 1911; the Yankees weren’t named until 1913 (before then, they were the New York Highlanders).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Also, when the inevitable reference to Tase Boy comes up, point out that the Yankees have exempted themselves from any similar incidents by making attending a baseball game an investment you have to report on your 1040. Just costs too much to get kicked out.
There’s also the Yankees fan that ran over two Red Sox fans, an old incident involving throwing a knife at the opposing pitcher, the 1961 attack on Jimmy Piersall,
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’ve been in the rf bleachers in the previous Yankee Stadium – and on weeknight games, when the regulars are there, not the yuppiefied Upper West Side pricks who pack the joint on weekends. It’s as close as baseball has to English soccer hooliganism. Though I strongly recommend it as a bucket list baseball fan experience, it’s pretty tough stuff. They have nothing to be proud of when it comes to fan behavior.
I think the most important points are:
(a) Yankees’ fans are not actually fans but frontrunning buffoons
(b) The Mets suck and are a laughingstock
see above with my “Yankees fans are barely closeted fascists,” above. Or just fulfill everyone’s expectations (it is sales, right?) and vomit on them.
by Wet Luzinski on May 7, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good stuff
This actually might come out after I’ve had a few—both figuratively and literally. I’ll make sure to aim it on a Mets fan.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Are you kidding me? That’s the only way you can get through these things. I’ve actually been building up my drinking stamina for the past few months in anticipation of this event. There are too many people who go from 0 to 100 and end up making an ass of themselves in the process.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Cheering for the Yankees is like
cheering for gravity.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on May 7, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
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