A Few Phillies Links for You, June 10, 2010: Lee to Yankees, Biddle Day, Werth Beef

by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2010 7:44 AM EDT

Phillies Notes: Werth to return to Phillies' lineup
Well, that's good... and expected?

Alleged beef between Manuel-Werth diffused
Most laid-back beef since Biggie/Tupac.

Sentence Due In Sex-For-Tickets Case
Hopefully this matter is winding down to its inevitable, ugly conclusion.

Awards assembly takes on a Phillie flair

One call [Biddle] never had the chance to answer was from the late Phillies legend Robin Roberts. About a year ago, Biddle was introduced to Roberts through a family friend. The two talked often. Roberts advised Biddle as he weighed skipping college and signing when drafted. Biddle has a scholarship to the University of Oregon that he will forgo. "He really helped me be able to get a better-educated idea of what it takes," Biddle said.

Holy crap, that's awesome.

Happ to start for R-Phillies
please be healthy please be healthy

The Yankees will get Cliff Lee one way or another

The Yankees were willing to include top catching prospect Jesus Montero in a package for Lee, according to two sources. But the Phillies’ overall asking price was so high, the talks never advanced, another source said.

Dammit, Ruben... I still think Cliff Lee to the Yankees was pre-ordained from the minute he absolutely demolished them in Game One last season.

Washington Nationals Win 7-5 Over Pittsburgh Pirates In Quiet Nats Park. - Federal Baseball
The Nationals continue to play baseball the other four days out of the schedule, it seems.

Heyward and McLouth Collide as the Braves Fall to the Diamondbacks 2-1 - Talking Chop
Phillies now 1.5 games back in standings, to the extent that that matters at this point in the season.

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To the Yankees

Are they selling Stephen Strasburg Yankees jerseys yet?

by lseltzer on Jun 10, 2010 8:10 AM EDT reply actions

I was watching the Yankees play the Marlins last year and Josh Johnson was pitching. One of the Yankees announcers in talking about Johnson actually said " Fans, let me introduce to you to your newest Yankee"’ And Yankee fans have the gaul to think their organization is despised because we the meek are just jealous. Assholes.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Yick… another reason to not watch the Yankees if the Phillies are not involved.

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Michael Kay I'd bet.

He’s a friggen asshole.

by FloridaownsFSU on Jun 10, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Does he have kinda of a raspy voice

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes

But he’s not as bad as suzy and her roger clemens is back call – most over the top call EVER and soundly mocked by ESPN LA radio all the time

by jemagee on Jun 10, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

GOODNESS GRACIOUS

“You should see the Yankee dugout!”

Cut to Posada and Pettitte looking vaguely happy.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jun 10, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Great the prospect of Cliff Lee as a Yankee. They’re beatable without him in a 7 game series but if they get him forget it. There are times when I really fucking hate baseball. Every team should petition to have the yankees kicked out of MLB so they can have a league of their own , onto themselves to play with themselves.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 8:21 AM EDT reply actions

Lee to the Yankees would be an awful development

I mean, why the hell would they need him? Do they honestly not think they lack the pitching to win again this year?

The Yankees getting Lee would pretty much make the playoffs about as anti-climatic as possible. No one would beat them. And that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.

by FloridaownsFSU on Jun 10, 2010 8:29 AM EDT reply actions

Ironically, that’s what was being said about the Phils when the rumors were swirling that we would add Halladay into the rotation with Lee and Hamels…

by Boundforbeach on Jun 10, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Hey 10,000 losses – we’ve paid our dues. I just want a team that can fucking dominate just once. Iam tired of being the underdogs. For once I want the easy way. Beside the odds of we could ever get a rotation like that ever again are like the odds that Kim Jong il is sane. We aren’t the Haliburton of Baseball after all.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions

The point is that adding Lee would not really make the Yankees unbeatable. It would certainly improve their chances, but any short series has a huge element of luck in it, no matter how good a team is. Better teams than the Yankees + Lee have lost in the playoffs.

by taco pal on Jun 10, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Reread what I wrote in the context of the statement I was responding to . In fact reread the thread up until that point. It was all about the Yankees greed and them having an unfair advantage.

The Yankees getting Lee would pretty much make the playoffs about as anti-climatic as possible. No one would beat them. And that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.

The comment I was responding to compared us to the Yankees

Ironically, that’s what was being said about the Phils when the rumors were swirling that we would add Halladay into the rotation with Lee and Hamels…

My little hyperbolic rant was saying that we can’t be like the Yankees because who, after our 10,000 losses and always being the underdog, would blame us for getting a litlle greedy and buying a dominant rotation like the yankees would esp. when it’s one of the few times we’ll ever have the opportunity to do so.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree with everything you said— I drooled over that top of the rotation, even if it would have led to a competitive imbalance. In some ways us having that dominant of a rotation would just seem to even it up a little bit— sort of like if certain other historically bad franchises, like the Pirates or Royals were to be able to get it together— there would be some part of me that would be very ok with it and happy for them and their fans— the Yankees doing this just makes me nauseated.

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

There’s a thing called injuries, too, and the NYY are not immune to them. Several of their major stars are not exactly spring chickens.

"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko

by doubleh on Jun 10, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Definitely.

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 9:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

The ‘dream’ rotation fantasy has long since sailed. If Lee gets dealt again before the deadline, it’s just going to bring up all those hard feelings again. There is no easy way, Bud. Quick buck artists come and go with every bull market, but the steady players make it through the bear market…

by Boundforbeach on Jun 10, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions

No you misread what I wrote. You said people were comparing us to the Yankees and I said no way that could be true because these opportunities to buy a fully stocked rotation like the the yankees always do don’t come around for us to often and would it it be nice to have. And don’t call me bud

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Don’t take offense… I was just quoting Wall Street (Bud Fox)

by Boundforbeach on Jun 10, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

And here i thought you were calling out bud selig

And let me tell you – wall street – that’s a movie that needed a sequel – and more shia

by jemagee on Jun 10, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

now, now… Would Oliver Stone ever let us down? (ducks)

by Boundforbeach on Jun 10, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry. I didn’t pick up on that. I saw that movie a long time ago. I’m a bit edgy after watching the reenactment of Joe Carter meets Mitch Williams on ice last night

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions

The Yankees have the highest payroll in the sport

if they feel they still need to add an ace to complete their rotation, then they obviously are not the most fiscally-wise organization out there.

by FloridaownsFSU on Jun 10, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Their payroll is lower than it was last year

and I’m betting the yankees are still profitable.

Envy is a lousy reason to attack an organization.

There are no rules that prevent teams from spending money (besides, salary caps are anti american).

If the yankees make the best offer to cliff lee more power to them

They’ve had the highest payroll for like the last 10-15 years right, how many world series have they won since 2000?

by jemagee on Jun 10, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm hardly envious about the Yankees.

I’ve actually always defended them based on the argument that based on their market, they have all the reason in the world to spend money.

But getting Cliff Lee would seem over the top, no?

And, for the record, the NFL, NBA, and NHL provide me all the reason in the world to despise salary caps.

by FloridaownsFSU on Jun 10, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

But getting Cliff Lee would seem over the top, no?

The goal is to win championships.

Does signing Cliff Lee make it more or less likely that the yankees will win a championship? If the answer is yes then it’s not over the top. Having this debate regarding ‘hatred’ of kobe bryant on a sixers blog – if the phillies ownership spent like the yankees ownership everyone here would friggin love it

I wonder – do soccer fans get upset when a player is sold to another team for like 75 million dollars?

by jemagee on Jun 10, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Linked for posterity and wholehearted agreement. I can’t get enough of “OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS.”

by Trev223 on Jun 10, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

It was a totally over the top moment from the beginning but she just took it to another level…

I think Pedro should do the same thing at a phillies game this year, I’d love to hear wheeler crap his pants about pedro coming back to save the phillies

by jemagee on Jun 10, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

i think she had to change her panties after that. Or she just scored an 8 ball about 10 minutes before making that call.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

If you look at Cliff Lee in terms of marginal utility you could argue that the Yankees are, given their talent level getting diminshing returns on him relative to increasing their probablity of winning . But fuck it if they can afford it . A 2% increase chance winning might not be worth the cost to a team with budget constraints but it’s the Yankees, if they can absorb the cost why not increase their likehood of winning even if it’s only by a little. I’d do it.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe They are Worried About Sabathia

I was tooling around on ESPN.com today when I found this.

If the Yankees are not worried, either they are not paying attention or they figure worrying won’t help. Because Sabathia is clearly not the pitcher the Yankees thought they were getting when they signed him for $161 million. In the three seasons before the Yankees got Sabathia, his ERA+ was 146 and his strikeout-to-walk ratio was 4.5-to-1. Since then, his ERA+ is 120 and (more to the point) his strikeout-to-walk ratio is 2.8-to-1.

I wonder if they are thinking in terms of needing a strong four pitcher rotation to get through this year’s playoffs— between Sabathia’s issues and Phil Hughes likely to need rest down the stretch, this may make sense (not that I do not think that it sucks!)

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

The article says that the Mainers might trade him to the Yankees and take the package that we refuesed because it was the Yankees.

I wonder if we all would have been freaking out about the Lee trade if we got Jesus Monterio and Phil Hughes (before the season people were down on him)

by Clyde Simmons on Jun 10, 2010 8:55 AM EDT reply actions

If they trade Lee to anyone for a very good haul of prospects, it’s going to sting. Just no way of getting around it.

by Boundforbeach on Jun 10, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions

So that ’s what it feels like to eat a catus and crap it out.

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Cactus = Catus

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Doesn’t look like it’s going to happen. Sickels had Nunez rated as a C prospect. I’m not sure which catchers Rosenthal’s referring to (I assume Montero isn’t one of them) but Sickels ranked the Yankees’ other three on his list as B, C+, and C+.

Hardball Times had one of the catchers (Romine) as the Yankees #4 prospect, and none of the other catchers or Nunez were in their Top 10.

by taco pal on Jun 10, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m assuming Lee would want a long term deal at the time of the trade if he went to a big spender like NY, which would mean there would be no draft pick compensation because no one would lose him to free agency, right? But from Seattle’s perspective, that’s a non issue, since they are going to lose him and get those picks. So I guess I’m agreeing with you that it makes it unlikely, since Seattle would want a damn good player/prospect haul to address the value of Lee and loss of those picks…

by Boundforbeach on Jun 10, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Technically, you only lose one pick. And since Seattle’s going to bad this year, it would be a 2nd-round pick. The Yankees would get a second pick as well, but it would be a newly created sandwich pick, not a compensation pick from the M’s.

by taco pal on Jun 10, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh wait, strike that. Analysis is wrong.

by taco pal on Jun 10, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m having a hard time overcoming my skepticism about the Montero thing. I’m not saying Rosenthal’s getting played – I can’t see what the motivation would be for that – but it’s easy to say after-the-fact what “would have happened”.

by taco pal on Jun 10, 2010 9:29 AM EDT reply actions

If I had the ability I would post the skeptical hippo photo.

Also, how would fans have felt about trading Lee to the team that just beat us in the WS?

"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko

by doubleh on Jun 10, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions

I can’t speak for every fan, but unless the prospect haul included a wunderkind, I would have been off the chart irate… and a wunderkind would have made me merely angry.

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions

I have to agree. Montero’s struggling this year, but any package including him would’ve blown away what we got from the Mariners. I don’t see why the Phils would’ve refused that.

by SethC on Jun 10, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions

I’ll say this much: based on how in tune Rosenthal was with the entire Lee thing, he probably deserves some benefit of the doubt on this one.

And maybe I’m being skeptical, but I 99% believe that the Phillies would do something like this. Benny Looper had a hard on for the M’s prospects we got back, so it’s certainly not inconceivable that he’d have convinced Amaro to forego a Montero-led package in favor of the Gillies/Aumont/Ramirez one we got back.

Additionally, consider the timing of the whole thing — even though the deals were completely separate, the front office seemed so worried about the public perception of turning around and dealing Lee later (after all the “Three Aces” stories had come out) that they hurriedly rushed the Lee portion of the deal through in December. We may think the front office is above fearing the fallout of dealing Lee to the Yankees, but maybe they weren’t.

by PhillyFriar on Jun 10, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Additionally — and maybe I’m getting ahead of myself here — but Montero’s presence in the organization could potentially have stopped the front office from handing out that ridiculous Howard contract. Consider: Montero’s PECOTA 10-year forecast had him pegged for a slew of .310/.360/.530 years from his Age 23 to Age 29 seasons. Howard could have been Thome’d this coming offseason, or he could simply have walked in free agency after next year, with a ready made replacement on hand.

I’m not saying Ruben Amaro’s job is easy, but if I was dead set on trading Cliff Lee, I know exactly what I would have done given the two offers we’ve heard about so far.

by PhillyFriar on Jun 10, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Buzz Bissinger has a nice article in today’s Inquirer about Jesse Biddle.

by taco pal on Jun 10, 2010 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Six days after Lee was traded to the M’s, the Yankees picked up Vazquez for a package that included Vizcaino and Melky. Vizcaino is only 19 and in Low-A, but he also is a big-time prospect comparable to Cosart and Teheran. The Yankees apparently would have been a better trading partner than the M’s.

by Derekcarstairs on Jun 10, 2010 10:08 AM EDT reply actions

It is good to see Happ heading to Reading

Any idea (assuming that all goes well and he stays healthy) how many starts he would need to make in Reading before he would be ready to come back up to the big league club???

Also, given the current states of Blanton and Kendrick, which one would everyone rather have out of the rotation?

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions

by j reed on Jun 10, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I expect KK will be the one bumped out of the rotation (which is, based on history, what I’d rather).

The question to me is whether KK is bumped down to LHV or to the bullpen (which would probably mean back to LHV for Bastardo OR the Phillies work out a deal to keep Herndon in the org while sending him to AAA).

My guess is that when Happ returns, Kendrick goes down to the rotation at LHV, becoming the Phillies’ “sixth starter” in case of (another) injury.

All tallied, I actually am not too unhappy with how Kendrick has done, especially considering how horrible he looked in his first two starts.

by Romero on Jun 10, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Considering how his first two starts looked, I am actually impressed with how he has done since.

by dannijd on Jun 10, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

the yanks only want cliff if he signs an extension. this extension may cause the yanks to back away from Werth. I’m not sure what they can afford next season, but signing Lee might make Werth think he is losing a potential suitor.

by #26HOF2B on Jun 10, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions