What Could Be Better Than Four Days in Pittsburgh?

by David S. Cohen on Jul 1, 2010 11:14 AM EDT

The Phillies start a four-day series against the Pirates today in Pittsburgh. In 2001, the Pirates moved into PNC Park, a beautiful new stadium built on the Allegheny River that has amazing views of the Pittsburgh skyline. I myself have never been to PNC Park, but the shots of it I see on TV make me want to move to Pittsburgh. The skyline looks amazing, and the gorgeous yellow bridges in the background really sparkle.

Yet, as amazing as PNC Park looks, the place has been nothing but trouble for the Phillies. From 2001 through 2009, the Phillies have played 28 games in Pittsburgh and have lost 17 of them, good for a .393 winning percentage.

Conversely, the Pirates have a .607 winning percentage against the Phillies when the Pirates are at home. What's amazing about this number is that the Pirates, against all other MLB teams, have a .481 winning percentage at home between 2001 and 2009. At home during this time period, the Pirates have had better success against only a few other NL teams -- the Marlins (.679), the Brewers (.632), and the Rockies (.618).

As for the Phillies, to answer the question posed by the title of this post, what could be better than four days in Pittsburgh is four days anywhere else in the NL . . . other than Los Angeles. Here's a chart of the Phillies' home record since 2001 at NL cities:

Team	W	L	Win %
San Diego Padres	21	8	0.724
Cincinnati Reds	22	12	0.647
Chicago Cubs	19	11	0.633
St. Louis Cardinals	20	12	0.625
New York Mets	47	40	0.540
Washington Nationals	47	40	0.540
Atlanta Braves	48	41	0.539
Colorado Rockies	16	14	0.533
Arizona Diamondbacks	17	15	0.531
Milwaukee Brewers	15	15	0.500
Florida Marlins	41	45	0.477
San Francisco Giants	14	18	0.438
Houston Astros	13	19	0.406
Pittsburgh Pirates	11	17	0.393
Los Angeles Dodgers	12	19	0.387

Given the state of the Phillies' health right now, this trip to Pittsburgh could be quite perilous.

As an addendum to the original post, based on an inquiry in the comments, I looked at the difference between Phillies' home and road records since 2001 against each NL team. The chart below shows that the Phillies have the worst win percentage differential from home to road since 2001 against the Pirates. They've won at a .724 rate against the Pirates in Philadelphia, but only a .393 rate in Pittsburgh:

Team	Away %	Home %	Diff
San Diego Padres	0.724	0.545	0.179
Cincinnati Reds	0.647	0.533	0.114
New York Mets	0.540	0.488	0.052
St. Louis Cardinals	0.625	0.581	0.044
Atlanta Braves	0.539	0.500	0.039
Chicago Cubs	0.633	0.621	0.012
Arizona Diamondbacks	0.531	0.586	-0.055
Florida Marlins	0.477	0.533	-0.056
Houston Astros	0.406	0.464	-0.058
Washington Nationals	0.540	0.655	-0.115
Colorado Rockies	0.533	0.655	-0.122
Milwaukee Brewers	0.500	0.688	-0.188
San Francisco Giants	0.438	0.643	-0.205
Los Angeles Dodgers	0.387	0.655	-0.268
Pittsburgh Pirates	0.393	0.724	-0.331

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Comments

So we play down to the competition

Beautiful stadium.

Imagine if they built CBP in Center City with some great views.

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Jul 1, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions

I don’t think your subject heading is accurate. The Reds and Nationals have been quite bad over the past decade, yet the Phillies have done well against them on the road. The Dodgers and Astros have been good in the past decade (yes, kind of hard to think about the Astros being good, but they were!) yet we’ve played poorly against them on the road.

by David S. Cohen on Jul 1, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

So Add

“On the Road” to my subject line and call me Jack Kerouac.

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Jul 1, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I love CBP right where it is!

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

really, yuck

the sports complex eats dicks

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 1, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

I like it— it is accessible by subway when I am in the city, and does not force me to drive through Center City during rush hour and search all over for really expensive parking on days when I come in from the burbs with my mom for games.

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Well said.

by taco pal on Jul 1, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s convenient, sure, but not pretty. And I see that the development to go over top of the old Spectrum is falling apart. So much for the idea of building a neighborhood nearby.

It’s possible, but not all that practical (having done so myself) to get to places in South Philly within a 20-minute walk, not radically different in terms of distance/time than if you park in the Eagles’ NovaCare Center lots off Pattison, which I do for easier getaways to the WL cave south of the city. The only problem is that the ways are fearsome as the Expressway creates a barrier wall, and the spaces are designed wholly for the convenience of cars. It was a (re) develpment failure not to at least make better allowances/ prettier conduits for bikes/pedestrians into the neighborhood. The problems are many, in that what’s true of Phillies crowds is NOT true of Eagles crowds, so if I lived nearby, I’d probably not mind the Great Barrier Wall feel at all.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 1, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I never hated the Philly airport (craphole, and easy top 5 worst airports in the US) or sports complex until I lived elsewhere.

by Cormican on Jul 1, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

PNC Park is great. I still mean to see Arlington, Cleveland, and Seattle (to say nothing of Dodger Stadium and the new park in SF), but of the many I’ve seen, highly rec’d.

If you sit in the upper deck the view you have is like something out of a big theater backdrop. The daylight fades, the lights come on in the buildings just over the river, the riverboats glide by, you can watch people coming and going across the pedestrian bridge. It’s enough to distract you from a pretty wretched baseball team. Or two, for that matter.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 1, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions

SF is beautiful. Along with PNC, those two are just on another level from all the other ballparks.

by taco pal on Jul 1, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I vaguely remember Franzke and L.A., during a game last year at either SF or Pittsburgh, saying that it was a nice park, but that nothing else is quite on the level of CBP. But then, the more they talked, it became clear that the top factors for them were the amenities in the press box and the view from the press box window.

To me, location is the #1 factor, so that puts CBP no better than middle of the pack. Everything else about it is great, but the most important aspect of it flat-out sucks.

by taco pal on Jul 1, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I went to Seattle’s park 2 years ago, pretty cool with the roof and all, but the location is about as crappy as CBP. Couple blocks from the docks, fairly industrial, squeezed next to the football stadium, no real views, etc.

by Cormican on Jul 1, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I think it’s OK. It’s walking distance from downtown and a fair number of people walk, which makes it much better than Philadelphia. There isn’t a lot in the immediate vicinity, but it has the potential to develop, whereas that potential does not exist for us.

by taco pal on Jul 1, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Fair point. My favorites in terms of neighborhoods are Camden Yards and Coors Field (though LoDo was pretty seedy, from what I understand, before the park popped up).

by Cormican on Jul 1, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Just out of curiosity

How does this compare to the Phillies record against the Pirates at home over the same period— I know that the Phillies split with them here (the second game being the first game in the month of Slumpuary), but is this a team that the Phillies just match up poorly with?

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions

The Phillies are 20-7 against the Pirates from 2001 through 2009.

by David S. Cohen on Jul 1, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

ok… so it is just going there that kills us… delightful— may they all get home in one piece

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Yep. It’s true. I was their last year for a wedding and went to a Pirates game and we lost when G. Jones raked one against Happ to win the game.

by j reed on Jul 1, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe this year's team will be saved

After all, with a lineup including the likes of Schneider, Sardinha, Castro, Valdez, and Dobbs going to Pittsburgh, maybe it can trick itself into winning.

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 1:20 PM EDT reply actions

My God, what injury would cause both Schneider and Sardinha to start? I shudder at the thought.

by Cormican on Jul 1, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I was not talking about starting— I was talking about the fact that at the end of the night, the box score seems to include all of the above on a daily basis.

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I know, just a mortifying tangent I went off on.

by Cormican on Jul 1, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok… I was worried that I was unclear (and no, I do not know any universe where both get to start)

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Schneider has also played first base. I will not make this tangent any more mortifying than that.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jul 1, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

You already did.

by Cormican on Jul 1, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

So back to the Pittsburgh thing

Small sample size? Unrelated events over the course of almost a decade’s time? Or something about that park that doesn’t suit the Phillies?

by David S. Cohen on Jul 1, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions

A little bit of column A, a little bit of column b, but unless it has a huge outfield, I doubt C has anything to do with it.

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe it's the park

Most of the parks we do better in are generally considered to be hitter friendly (even San Diego) while PNC, Houston, San Francisco, and Florida all favor the pitchers. So that could at least have something to do with it.

by Baseball Nerd on Jul 1, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Park Factors for this season, through yesterday’s games, according to ESPN.

by Baseball Nerd on Jul 1, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Park dimensions (distance, height):
Left field:
CBP 329, 9.25
PNC 325, 6 ft
Left field power alley:
CBP 374, 10.5
PNC 386, 10
Center field:
CBP 401, 6
PNC 399, 10
Right field power alley:
CBP 369, 13.33
PNC 375, 21
Right field:
CBP 330, 13.33
PNC 320, 21

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jul 1, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Probably just a coincidence.

by taco pal on Jul 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT reply actions

I just hope we can buck it this year.

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions

This year, lots of things rhyme with “buck it.”

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 1, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

That is true… and I am hoping in this screwed up alternate reality the Phillies are stuck in, they will forget their prior difficulties with travelling to the left side of the State, and play their way into winning the series… I know this is probably a pipe dream, but a girl can hope.

by dannijd on Jul 1, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

The answer to the question posed on this thread title

A gimme:

a. three days in Pittsburgh
b. two days in Pittsburgh
c. one day in Pittsburgh
d. No days in Pittsburgh.
e. All in all, I’d rather be in Philadelphia.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 1, 2010 3:44 PM EDT reply actions