Thumbpocalypse Now: Chase Utley To Undergo Surgery on Right Thumb
The news we all dreaded: Phillies superstar second baseman Chase Utley will be forced to undergo surgery on his injured right thumb, per Peter Gammons on Twitter.
Gammons later says five to six weeks, but that seems pretty optimistic.
It's hard to understate just how huge the drop-off from Utley to Valdez/Castro will be, but suffice to say, if the Phillies still have playoff aspirations in 2010, some big personnel moves are in order. Or some of the guys on the current roster are going to have to enter Beast Mode.
UPDATE: Todd Zolecki Tweets that Utley already had surgery, recovery timetable 4-6 weeks.
More on this as it develops...
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Funny and sad
The caption was a bright spot in an article of woes.
http://thatballsouttahere.com
Stop yelling at me so that I can yell at you!
Sigh…I mean I always liked Iwamura before I actually started looking at his numbers, but um, well, he’d be a better option right?
by jemagee on Jul 1, 2010 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe now is the time to start shopping Werth around.
Trading him for an A-level infielder makes sense, no?
Trading from a position of desperation hardly ever makes sense
by jemagee on Jul 1, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly we don't NEED to trade him.
We do, however, NEED to improve our infield, and the best way to do that is by picking up an A-level player. Since Werth will be an FA at the end of the season, it should be feasible to shop him around in exchange for some better talent than Messrs. Valdez, Castro and Dobbs.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to keep Werth, but I’d more love to strengthen our former all-star infield.
I just hope that they do not do anything stupid in their desperation to try to tape the infield back together again.
i have an idea
lets trade two of our three best prospects for another RF thats not as good as Werth, and then we’ll trade Werth for 3 mediocre prospects. Then we’ll tell everyone that we did it because we wanted to “restock” the farm system…This season has been fucked ever since that disgraceful salary dump Cliff Lee trade. Now we lose Chase and to make things even worse Lee is probably going to end up in New York. ownership wouldnt take on an extra 9 mill to keep a stud pitcher what makes anyone think theyre going to put out cash to solidify the infield?
Cliff Lee would have stopped Utley from hurting his thumb, after all.
by zfg on Jul 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn’t about the $9 million in 2010, it was about the $20+ million/year multiyear deal they would have had lay out to keep Lee after 2010.
Don’t bother TP. You could just link to 30 other posts to answer that. I really don’t feel like getting into Lee trade talk again.
Clearly the post is too chock full o’ phail to be corrected simply.
Just because Mr Paper keeps saying it doesn’t mean it’s true…and I still don’t buy it, it’s bull shit in my opinion
by jemagee on Jul 1, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course not, but the post above intimates that Lee is better than Halladay (“another RF thats not as good as Werth”) and that’s a modestly ridiculous statement. At worst they’re equal, but the idea that Lee is somehow superior to Halladay is just an unsupportable argument.
You can disagree with the trade, but to suggest is was a salary dump for an inferior/cheaper player just shows a lack of understanding of the game and business of baseball. Had Lee stuck around, we’d probably be stuck with Juan Uribe or a similar cheaper option at 3rd, no Gload and, probably, no Schneider (also no Baez or Contreras, but I can’t say I’d be against that).
If you want to live in a fantasy world where there are no budgets, become a Yankees fan.
The main point is that even if we had kept all of those guys this year, then we would have had a choice of either signing Lee to a very risky contract extension, or letting him walk in exchange for two fairly low compensation picks. Neither of those options is very appealing, so I can’t hate on Amaro for choosing a third unappealing option.
Not surprised
When I heard second and third opinion, I knew this probably was not a fifteen day injury… I just hope that it is only five to six weeks.
Most costly brain fart in Phillies history?
by FuquaManuel on Jul 1, 2010 1:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
FWIW, a list of upcoming FA 2Bs
For potential trade purposes. Not much here. (via MLBTradeRumors)
Ronnie Belliard (36)
Willie Bloomquist (33)
Alex Cora (35) – $2MM option vests with 80 games
Craig Counsell (40)
David Eckstein (36)
Mark Ellis (34) – $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
Orlando Hudson (33)
Omar Infante (29) – $2.5MM club option with a $250K buyout
Akinori Iwamura (32)
Adam Kennedy (35) – $2MM club option
Felipe Lopez (31)
Julio Lugo (35)
Kaz Matsui (35)
Aaron Miles (34)
Nick Punto (33) – $5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Juan Uribe (31)
Ramon Vazquez (34)
I like Hudson. He ain’t Utley, but it’d be better than Castro/Valdez/Dobbs. Though with him and Rollins in the same infield/clubhouse that’s a whole hell of a lot of talking.
Right now, I am just hoping that they will get into the Cliff Lee sweepstakes— Seattle wants a catching prospect, they have a good one, who will never see the majors as a catcher in the Minnesota system, barring catastrophic injury to Joe Mauer, and it keeps Lee, at least for a couple of months out of New York, and someplace where I can still root for him.
Completely agreed. Add in the fact that I’m really not all that sold on Wilson Ramos (the catching prospect), and I think that’d be a heck of a deal for the Twins.
(Although, I’ll admit I’m a bit biased. I made a prop bet before the year that the Twins would win the AL.)
I think Punto can also play short, you know, just in case the ‘unthinkable’ happens again.
That’s really a depressing list
by jemagee on Jul 1, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, what a miserable list. And it doesn’t get much better if you include the free agent third basemen.
I think Wigginton has to be the target. He’s not a particularly great defensive player, but he’s no worse than Dobbs at third, and he’s at least played second before (and, assuming Polanco comes back before Utley, you’d just shift Peanut to the keystone for the time being). He’s also a much better hitter than any of the Dobbs/Valdez/Castro trio of fill-ins, and he’s right handed to boot, which means he’d also serve a role when everyone is back healthy.
Can’t imagine the O’s would be asking for a king’s ransom for Wiggy, so I’d have MacPhail on the horn immediately and not let him off until I got something done.
At this point, that is the other big question— what is the prognosis for Polanco… if they think he will be gone the minimum, I would plan to put him at Second (where he is a better choice than any of the others) until Utley returns, and would not be as interested in a straight up second baseman. Also, considering Polanco’s history with that elbow, almost anything that has him back quick is probably a scenario where they are just trying to get him lots of rest, meaning that the problems with the elbow would likely recur this season— this makes me want to get someone decent to hold down third base when the inevitible happens again.
How about Micky Morandini or Manny Trillo? Any idea what they’re up to? And Mike Schmidt still seems in better shape than many major leaguers, right?
by David S. Cohen on Jul 1, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I said it.
He’s playing for the Toyota Heavy Manufacturing CarpmarinersBluepacificwavesundiamonds.
I may have made that name up, but he’s playing somewhere over there.
venting
this is just a number of many things that have gone horribly wrong this season for the fightens. i’m honestly disgusted with the way ownership and Amaro Jr. have taken a great team and run them almost into the ground…the bad omens started in the offseason with the inexcusable salary dump cliff lee trade. almost as bad, Amaro had three main priorities this offseason-1.Aquire a better 3rd baseman-he goes out and signs an old 3b to a 3 YEAR DEAL. Looks like a really good move, considering that Polanco is already getting hurt. Add in Ibanez and theres two ancient players Amaro brought in that are going to be serious problems given our self-imposed salary cap. 2nd priority-strengthen the bench-well this was an abjuect failure. the bench is a joke. Gload is decent, but other than him they dont have a single guy who anybody has any confidence in to get a big hit. the Dobbs contract in another bad one. Dobbs brings absolutely nothing to the table. Cant hit anymore, atrocious in the field. They dont have ANYONE that can come off the bench as a RH bat. 3rd priority-Solidify the bullpen-The contreras deal looks like it was decent but he also brought in Baez and gave out another awful contract to Durbin. The pen is shaky at best. I’m sorry for going on this rant but i’m just really pissed about this direction the team is in right now. Awaro is running a quality team directly into the ground.
I’m not a huge Amaro fan, but I don’t think you can really kill him for signing Polanco. It’s not like the guy has a long history of injuries, and he’s not much older than Beltre or Figgins (the only other talented third basemen available this year). Frankly, his injury (and the one to Utley, for that matter) were the kind that could happen to any player, regardless of age.
As far as the bench goes, that’s a crapshoot anyway. I mean, if a guy can hit, he’s going to be an everyday player somewhere, so bench guys don’t exactly come from the top of the talent pool. Gload is OK, and Fransisco could (and in fact did) start for other teams.
by zfg on Jul 1, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
dude, breathe.
Three all-star or MVP caliber players, along with two starters, the back end of the bullpen, and the everyday catcher have been hurt for significant periods of time, most concurrently. Very few teams survive this. The 2009 Mets say hi, for instance. Is Minaya that much of an idiot this year?
I’ll grant it exposes, and badly too, an organizational weakness in offseason bench/bullpen construction and how foolishly unnecessarily multiple year deals can hamstring you when it comes to flexibitly. Also, I figure that the next 31 days will really test Amaro’s mettle. I hope at least he learns to be more cautious on roster spots 21-40 with an aging core.
Agree also with zfg. Neither Polanco nor Utley were hurt doing something other than baseball. The only idiotic injury of the bunch is Madson’s.
While I share your frustration and disappointment with the team as it is currently composed, I disagree with your assessments on certain things.
Firstly, regarding Polanco, while the injury news is bad, and I will not take anything away from that, he has turned out to be a good third baseman (far better than I thought when they signed him), and still may be a good third baseman. Considering the other choices on the market and how they are doing now (including Feliz, who they paid to go away), I think they made a good choice. Injuries happen, and this year has been the Phillies turn to morph into a M*A*S*H unit. There is no guarantee that any free agent third baseman Amaro brought in would not have gotten hurt. So hold up on calling the deal bad— it is not even halfway through.
As for the bench, I think Amaro needs to be graded on a curve— Valdez is playing at the level that is to be expected of a replacement player, and while not great, is not atrocious either. As for the bench’s hitting— I am more concerned about the regulars hitting better.
Third: the bullpen— I am not too upset about re-signing Durbin— he is a known entity and has not performed that badly. As for Baez— right now I do not like him, but others have pointed out that to this point he has actually underperformed some of his peripherals, and thus may bounce back. However, this is the one place that I fault him the most.
Finally, I am not yet willing to scream at Amaro for running this team into the ground. This has not been the year that Phillies fans hoped for at the outset, and that is disappointing. But some of that has been due to things that are not in Amaro’s control— Nobody plans for or wants to see their regulars wind up making a revolving door of the DL, or for simultaneous serious slumpage. Both have happened this season. Good teams have bad years— look at the 2008 Yankees— they spent more money than Congress, brought in a ton of talent, and it did not work… One year later, they beat the Phillies in the World Series. So maybe, this is not our year… who knows, but I am going to give him a couple of years before I judge him too harshly.
As, I believe, the first person on this board to mention that the Phils should sign Peanut to play Third Base, I am offended by your take on this.
Does that include the folks who wanted him to play 3rd full time when david bell was here as opposed to the platoon he had going for a bit with utley?:)
by jemagee on Jul 1, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, just this offseason. I wasn’t even here for the first trade (don’t think the site even existed then).
It did not – but blogs are not the first incarnation of the ‘online sports enthusiasts place to discuss the teams they are overly obsessed with’
by jemagee on Jul 1, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
In better Phillies Injury News
Matt Gelb tweeted that Charlie Manuel has stated that Placido Polanco should return to the lineup soon.
Latest Phillies Injury News
Per Phillies Trainer Scott Sheridan:
Utley to be out 8 weeks.
Polanco to be out 3-4 weeks.
Compared to 8 (how long Utley will be out) 3-4 (particularly with the All Star Break included) is quick.
Here is the bigger question— Let’s just say that Utley does take the whole 8 weeks to be ready to play again, and that by September the Phillies are out of contention. Bring him back, or just shut him down for the season.
8 weeks would bring Utley back by around the 25th of August, with 36 games remaining.
I find it real hard to imagine a scenario where the Phils are out of contention with 36 games to go.
And no matter how you look at it, unless Polanco is a glacier or tectonic plate, 3-4 weeks is not “soon.” Not in baseball terms, at any rate. Next week is soon. Tomorrow is soon.
I believe 8 weeks would mean another 48 games. If WAR is to be believed, then this injury will probably cost us about 2.5 wins.
That sucks and it could make the difference between us making the postseason and not making the postseason, but it will not be the difference between us being in the race and not being in the race.
Was wondering....
Does negative WAR values cost teams Wins? If so perhaps his replacemnet may have a negaitve impact on the team or does your 2.5 estimate factor that in?
By now you’ve probably seen the discussion of this in the other thread, but you’re right – a negative WAR would increase that amount. I just don’t think those guys have negative WARs, or at least not strongly so. You have to be pretty damn horrible to have a negative WAR.
Castro’s WAR last year was -0.2 and his RAR was -2 in 118 PAs. But looking at his WAR in years when he had more PAs his WAR got worse. Warning: the link provided can cause sudden onset Tourettes outbursts for a few hours.
Problems are complex
The first problem is the farm system. Most well run teams would be able to dip into the minors for immediate help rather than get old, high priced stop gaps. Look at how Boston was able to replace Cameron and Drew so easily. Last I looked they’re 1/2 game behind the Yankees in the toughest division in baseball. The Phillies built tis team on home grown talent, but they have not continued that recently. To stay ahead today, you have to have some low priced future stars on the team like the Dodgers, Red Sox, Tampa Bay, Reds, and Twins to be able to afford the Utleys, Howards, etc.
The next problem is the Phillies totally irrational and stupid logic in giving out long term contracts to old players. I also believe that giving Howard that kind of a long term deal was questionable. They are pinching pennies on draft picks and throwing away one of the best pitchers in BB. They cry that they have no $$ yet they throw so much of it away on older players.
They need to change fast- but this is the Phillies so it probably won’t happen

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