Some Phillies Links for You, July 13, 2010: All-Star Break Edition
by WholeCamels on Jul 13, 2010 8:33 AM EDT
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PrintPhil Sheridan: Phillies in familiar spot entering second half
They endured all the injuries and their record is about the same. But they're 41/2 games out of first because the Braves are better. The real story will be told in the second half, as the Braves attempt to fend off a Phillies team that knows exactly what it takes to win in August, September, and October.
Specifically, "scoring more runs than you give up."
After four teams in 12 months, Cliff Lee wants to settle down - USATODAY.com
Still, despite being a part-time tour guide, visiting everything from the Liberty Bell to the Space Needle, Lee wishes he could have remained in Philadelphia. He loved the team and the town, but with the Phillies having a shot to acquire Halladay, he can't blame them for trading him. If the Phillies come calling this winter, he says he'd be open to returning.
"I loved my time in Philadelphia," Lee says. "I don't know why I was moved, but I think it had a lot to do with Roy Halladay. He's the best pitcher in baseball. So if you have a chance to replace me with Roy Halladay, that's a pretty good switch."
:-|
Cliff Lee wants no-trade clause
I can't understand why.
Bill Conlin: Thanks to Rollins and Ruiz, Phillies in decent shape at All-Star break
The biggest development during the Reds series was the Phillies seem to have their mojo back. There can be little doubt that the Keeper of the Mojo is the shortstop. And the Sorcerer's Apprentice is nicknamed Chooch.
It is written.
Flande's gem goes to waste as R-Phils' bullpen falters
Booooooo
Jimenez, Price to start All-Star Game
TEH WINZ!
Charlie's choice: It's Howard
Lefty slugger will bat cleanup and DH. SABR wept.
Red Sox' Ortiz wins Home Run Derby over Marlins' Ramirez
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. zzzSNOREzzzzzzz
Halladay's perspective has changed
Can we just get this sweet dude to the postseason? Thanks.
Philly-area woman who honors husband's memory with efforts for cancer patients to be honored at All-Star Game
Oh jeez, here come the waterworks...
Can the NL win one?
Yeah, I guess.
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I loved my time in Philadelphia
And we love you for what you did in your short time here
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 13, 2010 9:21 AM EDT reply actions
Amen… No matter what this team does in the future, Cliff Lee’s brief time in Philadelphia will not be forgotten.
by dannijd on Jul 13, 2010 10:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just thinking outside the box with Jamie Moyer’s contract up next year what do you think the chances are that the phillz make a shot signing him? Stands are packed every night TV $$ is higher then ever that 180 Mil that the team sets as a limit may be overlooked.
It is not out of the question when you think that Moyer’s making 9 mil a year and then when Rual’s deal is finshed in 2011 that should free up another 6 mil, I’m not sure how much Werth is making but I’m sure Brown will make less.
When you look at the Money Blanton’s making after his extention…. Had that deal not been done RAJ could have pulled off the Mariners trade, then as soon as Lee hit the market made a serious bid at him.
but what do i know?
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 13, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Now playing in LF for the Phillies:
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 13, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok so play GM here, assuming that Cliff Lee becomes a FA, would you throw a back loaded contract at him to see if he’ll bite… one that it’s full earning potental would come after Raul is let go? I’m assuming that he’s going to be looking for around 20 M a year or so.
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 13, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
My general approach is that long term big contracts to pitchers, regardless of their caliber usually backfires.
Pitchers are quite prone to injury, and the star pitcher who maintains that performance for a 5-6 year span is truly remarkable. It’s one of those things where the market seems to overpay, so you can either join the lunacy and gamble, or try to spend that other money more wisely. I’d think a 3 year is about the most you’d want to give an established good pitcher.
Now if you can finagle a budding star into accepting a 5 yr deal as an insurance policy at a lowball rate, that’s a different story, but that doesn’t happen very often I don’t think.
The only thing that may drive down his market value is he’s going to be 32 this year. I’m not saying he can’t keep getting it done but, the fact remains that if a team signs him to a big deal 5 years or so that’s 37 at the end of the contract and how many good years are you going to get out of him untill he just don’t have it any more?
by sowhatifitisasportste on Jul 13, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Not that I blame him for having those expectations, but there’s a bit of “I’m just a simple caveman” in there.
I don't understand this strange modern world, your honor.
But I do know that my client is entitled to not elss than $600,000 in compensatory damages and a further $3M in punitive damages.
I think that is part of it, but it didn’t seem like the Phillies ever took negotiations with Lee and his agent seriously. RAJ locked in on Halladay, did what he had to, to get him and part of getting Halladay was moving Lee. Lee was the victim of circumstance. How much of that had to do with him is really impossible to know.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
You have a choice
Long term deal with Roy Halladay OR long term deal with Cliff Lee
Who do you choose if you can only have one?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
For 2010
That was not a question that needed to be answered. You had a full year to make that decision.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
This is incorrect. In order to get Halladay signed to a contract with favorable terms, you needed to work out the deal before the trade was finalized. Do you really think that if Halladay were three months away from free agency right now, you would have any chance of getting him for a three-year deal at $20 per?
The choice was:
(1) Halladay long term + Lee for a year + comp picks
(2) Halladay long term + trade return for Lee
(3) No Halladay + Lee for one year with only a possibility of signing him long term
Exactly
(1) Halladay long term + Lee for a year + comp picks
Is the one I would have chosen if I was RAJ.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
money
also, Lee was due to make 8 million this year, i know the phillies are not struggling with cash, but with trying to lock all their guys up, the extra 8 million may have made some difference
mistake
sorry, 9 million because of an incentive involving his cy young
As would I. RAJ says he made the trade to restock the farm…others say that ownership didn’t want to fork over the cash. It’s very possible that RAJ is taking the heat for something that wasn’t totally his fault. If ownership forced him to trade Lee then the only issue I have is the package we got in return and how seemingly weak it is, especially compared to what Seattle just got.
I think the possibility that the Lee trade was ownership motivated is made more obvious by the fact that Lee was traded when he was. I would think ownership wanted Lee gone immediately so fans didn’t have days/weeks/months to think about the three headed monster that would have been Halladay/Lee/Hamels and then have that dream riped away by Lee being traded. From an Ownership and PR standpoint…trading Lee when they traded for Halladay allowed them to try and focus the attention more to the shiny new gift than the departure of Lee.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
$9 million isn’t peanuts but it’s close to it. That wasn’t the motivation. This is on Amaro, for better or for worse.
Is it? Believe me, I dislike Amaro as much as the next guy, and I said the day he took over that I thought his arrogance would ruin this team, but if the owners made him trade Lee and even gave him a timetable for doing it, which is some of what has been reported, then how can you fault RAJ?
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I don’t think the owners made him trade Lee. I’m sure they gave him a budget, but once they gave him a number why would they have cared how he got to that number? Plus, it’s out of character for them. The silent partners are, well, silent. And Montgomery has historically been a very hands-off president.
But did you ask them if they made him make the trade?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think its impossible to know if Halladay would have signed a long term deal if he was traded for at the deadline this year…he clearly cares about winning…has taken favorable deals before to give his team flexibility, and the Phillies were one of his top choices. It is certainly possible that he would have taken the same deal he ended up taking. It’s really impossible to know.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
It is not imposible to know if Halladay would have signed for 3 years, $20 million per, with an option. There is a 100% chance that he would not have signed that deal. I guess he might have signed a 6 year, $150 million extension or something. What’s the difference, right?
How do you know 100# chance that he would not have signed that deal?
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
That’s not an actual point, it’s an assumption, one you can’t prove either way. Which was my point, you really have no way to know one way or the other what Halladay would have done.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I expect the phillies had more insight to what Halladay would or wouldn’t have done than anyone else here and did what they felt was what they had to do.
The phillies seemed to think it was one or the other, so they chose Halladay. Contrary to your continued belief that there is only one way to see things, and that your way is the right way, I believe the phillies saw it a different way from you and went based on the information they had (which exceeds your information on the subject infinitely)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Except I have no continued belief that there is only one way to see things…thus the statement…“you really have no way to know one way or the other what Halladay would have done.” The point was that I have no idea what Halladay may have done, just like Taco Pal has no idea what Halladay would have done, because we aren’t the Phillies and we don’t have all the facts?
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
OK. I guess it’s also just as assumption when I say Halladay wouldn’t have played for free if we asked him. I don’t know that for a fact – we never asked him! – so that’s not an “actual point.”
Who is talking about playing for free?
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’m going to posit that you don’t know whether or not Halladay would play for free if we asked him to. Do you care to dispute that statement?
I never said Halladay would play for free, as he clearly would not, nor would he be allowed to even if he wanted to. I never once said that.
What I did say is that you Taco Pal, nor I know what deal Halladay would have signed had he been traded for at least year’s deadline, or this years deadline, as compared to the one he signed when he was actually traded. The Phillies know that, and since I don’t work for the Phillies, I can’t guess as to what they knew.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
The point of my hypothetical example is that, as you now admit, we don’t need to have direct knowledge of what someone is thinking in order to be able to draw sound conclusions about what he would or would not have done. If they are rational, intelligent people, and a particular course of action would have been irrational and stupid, then we can rightly conclude that they would not have taken that course of action, even if we never actually asked them.
But you have yet to explain how you know with absolute certainty that Halladay would not have signed the very deal that he did sign.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Then why make the deal at the time it was made? (unless your argument hinges from where the Phillies currently are on the standings, which I agree would male the deal harder to do)
by dannijd on Jul 14, 2010 2:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
At the same price? Because it seems that Halladay took less than what Lee would have, or atleast, we are lead to believe that since I never heard specific contract numbers from Lee’s camp.
But given the choice, all things being equal…Halladay.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
curse
harry kalas, now steinbrenner… curse of the world series champion?
They also lost their former PA announcer, Bob Sheppard last week.
by dannijd on Jul 13, 2010 10:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Drinks on me! The world just became a better place.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on now, that’s not right.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
If Fuqua hated him while he was alive – why should he stop hating him when he’s not alive? I never understood how people suddenly become better human beings once they pass away.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
It is not that Steinbrenner became a better human being… It is that all human life is sacred, and therefore, drinking to his death is wrong.
by dannijd on Jul 13, 2010 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
^ This. Despicable yes. But’s its not like he’s Bin Laden.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
“all human life is sacred”
I disagree.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you; I tire of this revisionist history when someone detestable dies. All this fake mourning I’m seeing on the internets and hearing on TV is disgusting.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I never said he was not detestable… I just do not believe in celebrating anybody’s death… I remember Steinbrenner for who and what he was— good AND more notably bad. I did not like him in life, and his death does not change anything— but celebrating a person’s death is something that I just can’t quite wrap my head around.
by dannijd on Jul 14, 2010 3:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It has nothing to do with liking people or not liking people, it’s about respect. There are plenty of people whom I don’t particularly like but even if they died I wouldn’t take any personal pleasure in it. To call someone out after they die makes no sense. It’s about respect for the family and those who truly are mourning.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I don’t know his family. Fuck him.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope when you die no one calls you out for being the very things you are claiming Steinbrenner to be.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Do you think Steinbrenner cares what is being said about him now that he no longer can breathe think or hear?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Allow me to repeat what I said earlier…which I made very clear so as to not have you claim that you are trying to read my mind…
It’s about respect for the family and those who are truly mourning.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
His family will believe he was a saint regardless of what I say.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
How about all the people are fake mourning?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
And do you know who they are?
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Anyone who never met the man comes to mind
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t give a shit, because I’d be dead.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Respect is earned, you don’t suddenly get respect when you die if you didn’t have respect in life…it’s a nonsensical thing I’ve never understood.
SOmeone who is a dick when they’re alive is a dick when they’re dead.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
No, he was a despicable, disgusting human being and he deserves to be called such in both life and death. I am not going to join in this charade of fake mourning for someone who was, in my opinion, a stain on humanity.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t have to mourn him. Go ahead and hate away. But celebrating his death, just a bit too much
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Steinbrenner fits my criteria of TRULY hatable people. But for the most part I agree.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I reserve my hatred for the bourgeoisie. It’s the only thing that keeps me going.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
What about Bobby Cox?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 13, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe the world is better for his absence. This is something to be celebrated. No one is forcing you to join me.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you. I felt that way when Nixon died. His death doesn’t change his despicableness.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree, I am not saying people should suddenly pretend like the guy was something other than what he was. And I am not saying F.M is wrong in his assessment of Steinbrenner, but openly celebrating his death is wrong.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Thanks John. Changing your nametag doesn’t make it less obvious that it’s you.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Way to go blow his cover, ass.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
This is intended as a joke. I actually can’t tell if it’s him or not.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree he was a bad guy, but celebrating his death to strangers doesn’t make you look very good.
Note: I’ve made multiple less-than-sensitive jokes since hearing about it a half hour or so ago, so I definitely get where you’re coming from.
But he wasn’t a “stranger” per se. He was a public figure.
Look, I’m not walking around today saying this to everyone I see. This is a baseball blog and if I can’t say how I truly feel about the guy here, then I’ll never get to say it.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s always pp.com or philly.com I’m sure they don’t mind :)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
By “strangers” I meant the posters here. But again, I see your point and personally I don’t have a problem with it.
THe people who post here don’t seem that strange to me
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
As I said yesterday in a thread, that’s just because you haven’t met WC yet.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, my bad, I misread.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe its good that you’re getting your feelings out in the open early. Because we’re all about to be nauseated to death from tributes to this guy in the media and everywhere else. What sucks most is that they are going to talk about this throughout the entire all star game tonight. Just blows.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I kinda hope it’s like the scene in the Sopranos after Tony’s mom dies when they are all sitting around trying to think of nice things to say about her and they all realize that she was actually a miserable, vile human being.
But it won’t be…
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Good analogy. But I’m telling you right now, this is going to ruin the all star game. They’ll talk about it for hours.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Sigh. You are, of course, 100% correct. I will just mute it. It’s on Fox anyways, isn’t it?
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
yes. Does this mean we get the added pleasure of listening to Joe Morgan wax poetic over this guy. Uggh.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Not Morgan. McCarver. It’s like going from Stalin to Pol Pot.
"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel
by FuquaManuel on Jul 13, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe can top McCarver by telling stories of his childhood hanging out with Joe Buck Sr and George and how wonderful an experience that was that helped make him the “man” he is today
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The idea of ruining the all-star game is funny.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I was thinking. This just coalesces all the useless in game talk into one topic as opposed to most years when it meanders.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Great point. I’ll have to miss the game because of a work thing, which I was bummed about. But also missing the treacly tributes to Big Stein makes it a lot more okay.
"I don't know why I was moved."
Kills me. I know it’s being discussed above, but I’m putting it here again. I’m with you Cliff. No way we hold onto both after 2010, but there was no reason we couldn’t have both in 2010.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 10:28 AM EDT reply actions
Remembering bad people who die
I think Hunter Thompson did it best in this eulogy of Richard Nixon. I read this amidst all the nauseating praise Nixon was getting when he died and my respect for Thompson skyrocketed. It’s worth 5 minutes of your time, and remember, it was written about a week after Nixon died.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 10:39 AM EDT reply actions
Thompson was an epic writer. It’s a shame that they turned one of his best books, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, into perhaps one of the worst movies of all time, IMO
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the Worst/
Absolutely not, I think it was the best you could do with the book and still be a marketable movie.
If you did a true to the book movie of Fear only a few people on acid would want to see it.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
That’s kind of my point. I thinks it’s one of those rare books that simply cannot be made into a movie. Nothing can do it justice.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I never read Naked Lunch but after seeing the movie I’m pretty sure it falls into this category as well as the movie seemed like the kind of thing you had to either be on or have much experience with heavy drugs
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean the talking a-hole
Yeah, freaked a good friend of mine out making him watch that movie.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
I know eraserhead isn’t a book but I feel it comes into this category of needing experience or use of heavy drugs to enjoy
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
So the book is more disgusting, messier and will give me stomach craps?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Now go into the brown shaving kit and get me that vial of adrenochrome.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
you know what? I bet Tarrantino might actually be able to pull it off.
by Boundforbeach on Jul 13, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
But could you do better than
Depp and Del Toro?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
I’m almost sure Tarantino agrees with you.
He probably also feels he could do the godfather better than coppola
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Why Cliff Lee is gone:
Because when you voice your opinion to test free agency and get the best contract possible, you are seen as a flight risk.
There is no question in my mind that he would still be a Phillie, if he would’ve taken less money. When a player says he really liked location A, you must take it with a grain of salt. He really liked location A, if the price was right.
I’m not blaming Lee for wanting all of the money he could possibly get, but when an arguably better pitcher is willing to take less money than you, well your contract demands must adjust accordingly. Sorry Cliff
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 13, 2010 10:57 AM EDT reply actions
So what if he was a flight risk. They had him under contract for 2010, and there was nothing he could have done to flee from that. And, if he fled after 2010, they got two draft picks.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
2 draft picks doesn’t equate to the loss of Cliff Lee. I’m amazed how you can say that with a straight face
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 13, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course not. That’s not the point. Given the Halladay trade and contract, Cliff Lee was not going to be a Phillie after 2010 no matter what. So, do you trade him in the fall of 2009 or let him go after having a year of his services in 2010? That’s the comparison. To me, a year of Cliff Lee plus the two draft picks you get after he leaves is much better than the pretty crappy deal Amaro made for Lee in the fall of 2009. If Amaro had shopped Lee last fall and gotten a top-shelf prospect for him, maybe I’d feel otherwise. But, that’s just a maybe. I still probably would have landed on the position that another year of him, plus Halladay, plus Hamels, plus then getting the two draft picks would have been the better deal.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
No doubt in my mind that another year of Cliff Lee was preferred/is preferred. I read the situation as Halladay or Lee, and if Lee was kept, there’d be no Halladay
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 13, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what Ruben wanted you to believe. But, there was just no logical reason that was true for 2010.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I express no opinion on whether you or other people are or are not.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 13, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
not just “less money”, but listen to a reasonable offer.
You give teams the following choice:
1) hold onto me until I become a free-agent, then enter a bidding war where at best you get compensatory draft picks
2) trade me and get something tangible in return.
Uncertainty/gambling are sometimes in your interest sometimes not.
1 is misleading.
If you enter a bidding war, at best you sign an A-level pitcher for a reasonable amount.
At worst, you sign an A-level pitcher for waaaaayyy too much $.
Somewhere in between, you get two compensatory picks.
As much as I like Roy...
Who do you feel is the better pitcher?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t know. I was just reacting to how everyone got along last year, and how seamlessly Cliff just ramped right in. Maybe it’s the team’s struggles, but Roy just seems…colder. (Based on zero first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the clubhouse.)
And so you think Cliff Lee and him being warmer would make the struggles at the plate, the injuries, the inconsistent pitching performances just wash away?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Where are you getting that?
My comment was only about Cliff as a person and a teammate, not about his performance vs Roy’s, or the team’s performance and standing overall, or the injuries, or even the new epidemic of fan interference. If the Phillies were 8 games up, I’d still miss Cliff. I liked him. A lot.
I’m now ver confused, and I’ve read that sentence four times. It’s some sort of hypnotism going on. Stop
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I"m anyone, so I’m safe there
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You only think I guessed wrong! That’s what’s so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – The most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” – but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line”! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha…
Conlin took til the last sentence
He is wordy and can be extremely annoying.
But his last sentence thesis in this piece – welcome back Chooch and Jimmy – I think is essentially correct. The Phils have not had swagger because key “red light” players were out of the action.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Its hard to have swagger when you aren’t running quality major leaguers out there every day. Polanco, Utley, Rollins, and Ruiz all out at the same time (I think it overlapped at least a game?) probably has a lot to do with it. Not so much swagger, but talent
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 13, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Phillies.com
You guys will have to let me know if it’s been discussed before, but can we possibly boycott phillies.com from future breakfast links or any other posts? (maybe even the blogroll?)
It’s gotten to a point where most of the scrolling headlines are advertisements or some form of product participation and surveying. It rarely has any content or articles of significance other than ticket purchasing and maybe finding the season schedule.
I’ll do my best to avoid the site, but thought I could get some help.
Just putting this out there. Not sure if I’m the only one who thinks phillies.com (or mlb.com for that matter) is a miserable website.
I try to be discerning. Personally I have a lot of respect for Zolecki, who’s now and MLB.com property, so if it’s worth knowing, he’s usually on it and writes well. Not the only guy, mind you, but he’s good. I don’t bother with Larry Shenk’s stuff, as he’s a PR guy. Fine if you’re into that, but doesn’t seem to fit the culture of the blog unless something is really wacky of laff-worthy. Also, mlb.com at times has teh video.
by Wet Luzinski on Jul 13, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
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