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Some Phillies Links for You, July 15, 2010: Back in the Saddle, No Pedro, Jamie Hall-of-Famey?

Phil Sheridan: Braves force Phillies' hand on making a move
I might be proven wrong here, but the acquisition of professional outsmith Alex Gonzalez falls well short of a big move.

Phillies' ageless Moyer entering Hall of Fame conversation
Without objective criteria, it's hard to say "no way" to anyone.  I still see him more as Hall of Very Good material.

Braves' McCann says Manuel inspired him

"It was awesome," McCann said of Manuel's pregame pep talk. "He's the best. He's a great manager. I'm fortunate to play against him all the time. He's a great hitting guy, so I like to talk to him."

GREAT, thanks Charlie! :eyeroll:

Pedro, Phillies not headed toward a reunion
It was a fleeting thing last year, destined not to happen again. But I wouldn't change a thing.

Mathieson keeps All-Star attitude at Triple A showcase game
It's a shame that Danys Baez is officially keeping this guy down in Triple-A.

Bozied and family savor Derby moment
Look, it's Tagg Bozied!

Beltran Is Back, Complicating the Mets’ Picture - NYTimes.com
This is an outrage: How can they not find a way to start Jeff Francoeur every night?

Salisbury: Sizing up Phils on Eve of the Second Half
Go here, read this.

Padres claim Berry from Phillies | padres.com: News
The byproduct of drafting polish-free toolsheds en masse.

The Fightins " Larry FN Bowa’s Midseason FN Report Card
I can't get over how awesome this is. Warning: Salty language.


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oddball rumor

OK guys, completely off topic from above. I’m in FL this week visiting with fam on vacation.
They (still liviing in SJ) dropped on me that they’ve heard that Werth is running around with Utley’s wife.

As I am not one to place much stock in soap-opera style rumors applied to baseball clubs, I was just curious if any one else has heard this same rumor? My initial response was one of absolute skepticism, but now it’s just mostly skepticism (there was that Palmeiro guy…)

by Bilzo on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Discussed and debunked, here and elsewhere.

How the rumor started, I don’t know.

I love how people look for and glom onto off-the-field explanations for slumps.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 15, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

admitted being out of the loop. thanks for saying debunked. that’s all i needed to hear

by Bilzo on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I want Larry FN Bowa calling the games. Move over, Wheels.

by Baseball Nerd on Jul 15, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Bowa was wonderful fun! Other than “writing” for the Phightins, what is he up to now?

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I want Larry FN Bowa as a TGP Troll specialist.

by j reed on Jul 15, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me— he can tell the Trolls to go back under their FN bridge!

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Bowa thing is pretty spectacular.

by dajafi on Jul 15, 2010 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

There was a “Larry Bowa” years ago who used to post on philaphans.com. Or was it Baseball Primer? I can’t quite remember my posting years before I got all TGP’d. But his schtick was that he drank a lot of Jameson’s, and was helluva fun. If it’s the same writer who did this, “Larry” has upped his game.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 15, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was also briefly the blog “The Love Songs of Larry Bowa” which just featured a lot of verse about playing smallball, and pitchers generally being pussies.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 15, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was on Primer. I think the powers that be over there asked him to stop fearing a defamation suit or something.

by phatj on Jul 15, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s my recollection as well. Apparently something like that happened with @THE_REAL_WHEELS too.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 15, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

so should I change my handle to Wet Loozinnskee? But see, I don’t pretend to be him. And I would expect the real Greg Luzinski to enjoy being dry, and not write so much poetry about minor leaguers.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 16, 2010 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

For those reasons, I think your handle is just fine.

by dannijd on Jul 16, 2010 9:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Can someone explain to me how the Padres were able to claim Berry? I was under the impression that the only way a player could be claimed was if he had come up to the majors, ran out of minor league options, and a team claimed him when on waivers or after he passed through. Thanks

by ego on Jul 15, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

He was removed from the 40-man roster to make space for… somebody, I can’t remember who. You have to go through waivers when you’re dropped from the 40-man, just as you do when you’re dropped from the 25-man without an option.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, it was Madson, that’s right. Madson was on the 60-day DL, which means your spot opens up on the 40-man. When he came back, someone on the 40-man had to be dropped.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

so anyone not on the 40-man roster can be claimed by another team?

by ego on Jul 15, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, he was claimed off waivers once removed from the roster. Had he cleared waivers he could not be claimed at that point.

by Baseball Nerd on Jul 15, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone outrighted off the 40-man roster can be claimed by another team that can keep that player on their own 40-man roster.

Probably being a bit semantical here, but it’s not true that anyone not on the 40-man roster can be claimed by another team (or else Cosart, Singleton, etc. would all be gone at this point). Guys with the requisite amount of minor league service time (5 years if drafted out of high school, 4 years if drafted out of college) need to be put on the 40-man or be subject to the Rule 5 draft.

by PhillyFriar on Jul 15, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right, and you only have to pass through it once. Unprotected players with the requisite service team who were assigned to the minors out of spring training can’t just be claimed whenever. You can only get claimed when you’re in the process of passing through waivers. Once that happens, you can’t be claimed unless you get put back on the 40-man and then taken off again.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

very helpful, thanks

by ego on Jul 15, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Louis C.K. has been one of my favorite comedians for a long, long time. His stand up specials are phenominal.

Great clip. I wonder if Jamie would appreciate it.

Also, the Jamie Hall-of-Famey thing reminds me of “Animaniacs” for some reason. Man, I used to love watching that show in college. /shut the hell up, young’uns

"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko

by doubleh on Jul 15, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really, really well done. Louis C.K. is pretty damn funny.

by PhillyFriar on Jul 15, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moyer HOF?

It’s impossible to really say because there’s no precedent for the guy at all. Is being an average pitcher between ages 45-50 (or beyond) as fame-worthy as being dominant between ages 25-30? I don’t know, but I can’t definitively say it isn’t. There have certainly been more people who have accomplished the latter than the former.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess it depends on whether you want a Hall of Fame to reward greatness or notoriety.

I wish the HoF “standards” would admit more guys like Roger Maris, who were profoundly “famous” but might fall a bit short in length of career.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I guess I think greatness is more important, but in a sliding-scale kind of way, not as an absolute necessary condition. There should be room for guys who had a LOT of notoriety or were otherwise outliers.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be interesting if there was a pitching metric that took age into account. It seems especially pertinent since very young, pre-arbitration pitchers and very old pitchers who pitch well will (ostensibly) be making less money than pitchers in their prime who pitch well, which puts a greater value on the former’s marginal or average success.

by Trev223 on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel really on the fence about Moyer for the Hall of Fame, as well. On one had, any one of his years, standing on it’s own, is not enough, and even any ten year window of his career is almost certainly not Hall of Fame worthy… But the fact that he has been able to survive as a starting pitcher as long as he has and to have some of his best years at the age that he is, is definitely something very special… But Hall of Fame? I just don’t know.

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 12:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think Jack Quinn or Charlie Hough would be the best parallels for being a solid pitcher over age 40, but not having been dominant at 25-30.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jul 15, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. But, you know, knuckleball (for Hough).

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that when ESPN was trying to find a pitcher similar to Moyer they determined that there was only one other pitcher similar to Jamie Moyer, and that even he had been younger.

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’ve been over this, and it feels like no. A veterans’ committee slot would be appropriate.

And Cooperstown Shmooperstown. His longevity alone must make him among the most-highly paid pitchers ever in the game.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 15, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m leaning that way too as of July 15, 2010. But what if he posts a 4.50 in 200 innings at age 50? Sometime before we get to that point, I’m going to waver. Especially since, if he pitches long enough, you can’t wait for the Veterans Committee anymore because he might not still be alive by then.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the age thing too. He might be well into his 70s by then. Maybe he’ll be on the committee to select himself.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 15, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s exactly where I am right now. If Moyer retires at the end of the year… no, he’s not a Hall of Famer. But as you said, what if he pitches 3 years after this, with similar effectiveness? What if that gets him to the magical 300 win plateau (he’s on pace, if you will, to get there sometime during 2013)? As crazy as that all sounds, I’m not so sure he can’t do it.

For what it’s worth, Niekro retired after his age 48 season, which is the oldest anyone’s been as a starter. Wouldn’t be surprised if breaking that mark is what Jamie has in his sights.

by PhillyFriar on Jul 15, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and forgot to add the conclusion: if he gets to 300 wins, and throws 170 or so innings of sub-5.00 ERA ball in his age 50 season, doesn’t he have to be a Hall of Famer? Even granting that he only has one career All Star appearance, and has never finished higher than 4th in Cy Young voting, he’ll be by far the most unique player in baseball history.

by PhillyFriar on Jul 15, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still want this guy to make it from the Veterans’ Committee. He led the league in triples at age 38, and was an above-average fielder at 40 (albeit at 1B, but still). He’s actually a distant relative of mine (great-great-uncle, I believe), and he only stopped playing at 40 because he died that year of complications from surgery. He was the team captain of the Reds team that won the Black Sox Series, and had a career .760 OPS in the Dead Ball Era, which was solidly above average.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jul 15, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sheridan

Agree w/WC. I was just dumbfounded looking at the Inky sports section this morning. It’s like they had a sky-is-falling layout in the can that expected the Braves to sign Cliff Lee, but I’m thinking, really, this is Alex Gonzalez here. It’s like any POS replacment level type from the mighty AL East gets some kind of special nob-polish job. (I know, Gonzalez is better than replacement level, but this deal had more to do with getting Escobar out of there.)

The Braves’ rickety lineup just got ricketier and rolled the dice to win one for Bobby Cox. If Gonzalez, Wagner, Jones and Saito stay healthy for the balance of the season, well then, I’ll rest assured knowing where somebody’s soul is destined.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 15, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

In light of how significantly injuried the team is and that we are only 4 games out with half the season to still play, to think that the Braves aquistion of Alex Gonzalez , all 33 years of him, is forcing Amaro’s hand is…well Sheridan was told that his source, wino Papa Smurf, could not be trusted. – I mean the low price alone was a red flag. An eyedropper of Wild Irish Rose after all, isn’t really gonna break anyone’s bank. Even if Gonzalez goes ‘’en fuego" from changing leagues, I think that that will normalize quickly. Free swingers in the league that normally is, in part, differentiated from the other league by more offspeed pitches, isn’t ideal. However that’s just a generalization, I didn’t have the time to check his plate discipline numbers at Fan graphs. Although, he has seen Tim Wakefield alot and it doesn’t get anymore off speed than that, which if we are to make lemonade from our lemons , Gonzalez might be RA Dickey’s arch nemisis.

by j reed on Jul 15, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Sheridan is stupid, basically.

by taco pal on Jul 15, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

A potentially TGP-unifying comment

(Well, maybe not FM?)
I know it won’t happen, but we can dream, can’t we?
Ruben Amaro: “As soon as everyone is healthy, let’s DFA Baez”.

Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.

Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail

by Bud in TN on Jul 15, 2010 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Well considering the profanity stream of consciouness that FM unleashes when Baez is even near a baseball , FM would be leading the motorcade that sees Baez’s sorry ass gets and stays outta town.

by j reed on Jul 15, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not the real thing? (Have we forgotten about someone?)

Salisbury wrote that the Phils might go after someone “like Eyre”.

Um, why not the real thing? We could just pro-rate the amount Scott was originally asking for. Everyone is happy. I’m guessing he is probably disabused of that “hanging around the house” and/or “traveling around the country in a Winnebago with the kids” notion at this point. Plus, we would not have to worry about how many innings he was racking up now.

Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.

Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail

by Bud in TN on Jul 15, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

True… If he was in baseball shape, I would consider it (particularly if it allows for Baez to be DFA’ed!)

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

94-68 (1st place)

Tom Verducci just said on MLB Network that he projects the Phils to go 47-28 in the 2nd half and win the division. I hope he’s right!

by schmenkman on Jul 15, 2010 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Why does he think that?

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because they’ve done as well as they have in spite of their injuries, and when they have everyone back (he expects Utley by late Aug), they will do well.

by schmenkman on Jul 15, 2010 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

He forgets that the Phillies M*A*S*H unit seems to claim one body for every one it returns… and I doubt we see Utley again this season (or at least him looking like himself).

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That seems unduly dark…

by schmenkman on Jul 15, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had nothing to do with it.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jul 15, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a touch… but right now this team brings out the pessamist in me… but I have been wrong before (see October 2008)

by dannijd on Jul 16, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is there anything that doesn’t bring out the pessimist in you for christ’s sake? That seems to be your response to anyone who points out your silliness. But so far you’ve only proven to be as monotone as a vuvuzela.

"F#$% [player]!" --FuquaManuel

by FuquaManuel on Jul 16, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

October 2009 doesn’t count?

by phatj on Jul 16, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Being wrong about them in October 2008 (when I had them picked to lose in every round of the playoffs) was wrong on a much bigger and more fun scale than being wrong in 2009 (when I picked them to repeat)

by dannijd on Jul 16, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

(reply to dannijd’s 7:09pm)

by schmenkman on Jul 15, 2010 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey look, twitter feeds aren’t bad enough now we got bbm feeds – woo hoo

by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 7:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Bbm feeds?

by dannijd on Jul 15, 2010 7:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, how do we make them go away?

by phatj on Jul 15, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The folks in charge of the blog would have to negotiate with SBNation Probably. There’s probably money involved in that to keep SB Nation afloat.

by SportingFanaticism on Jul 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand that, I was just griping.

While I appreciate some of the usability improvements SBNation has implemented over the last few years (the commenting engine is truly terrific, for instance) the front page of the blog is rapidly becoming everything that I hated about ESPN.com four years ago and the reason I no longer go there.

by phatj on Jul 16, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not fond of the writers they picked for the Philadelphia regional page, I had hoped the best of the team blogs would make it to the front page. The stuff written purely for the front page reminds me of philly.com sportswriters.

I’d like them to ban the twitter feed plug in personally because it often crashes my browser.

by SportingFanaticism on Jul 16, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d like them to ban the twitter feed plug in personally because it often crashes my browser.

I’m wondering if the same thing is happening with my PC. I use Internet Explorer and I’ve heard that SB Nation and IE don’t play well together. Someone suggested using Chrome as my browser because it’s faster but until I can understand why it’s faster in lay terms I’ll assume that faster comes at the price of something, namely security. Not to mention since IE is so integrated into the OS, your wed to it such that I’ll have two browsers and a really only use one. That’s seems to like a waste of memory.
As to the writers for regional page, perhaps there wasn’t a huge pool to select from.

by j reed on Jul 16, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the IE issues may be certain versions of IE, as that is all we had at my last job, and I never had trouble posting or seeing the counts update. When I tried accessing the site on IE at home, the site would freeze an lag, making it impossible for me to get through some of the longer threads, or to jump around well. I thought it was my computer until I happened to log into the site using Safari once (had to do some things on Mobile Me, and since I had Safari open, was browsing around with it). The site worked wonderfully— I have been using Safari exclusively for my SB Nation visits since with no problems.

by dannijd on Jul 16, 2010 10:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Stay away from internet explorer if you don’t have to use it.

Go to mozilla.org and get firefox – it’ll even import your bookmarks.

by SportingFanaticism on Jul 16, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha. He said scrotal louse. LOL

by Ritty77 on Jul 15, 2010 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

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