SB Nation Philly Editor's Pick

25 for 25: Phillies

by Solanus on Jul 28, 2010 10:09 PM EDT

I am actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the National League, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 6 total outfielders, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basically minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons).

The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team.

I actually posted the entire National League East on the SB Nation site Viva El Birdos (I will post the other divisions later), as well as an extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934 and (eventually) a post just like this at all of the other NL sites. You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.

C – Darren Daulton (1992), Mike Lieberthal (2003)

1B – John Kruk (1993), Ryan Howard (2006)

2B – Juan Samuel (1987), Chase Utley (2009)

3B – Mike Schmidt (1986), Scott Rolen (1998)

SS – Kevin Stocker (1996), Jimmy Rollins (2007)

OF – Von Hayes (1989), Lenny Dykstra (1990), Jim Eisenreich (1995), Doug Glanville (1999), Pat Burrell (2002), Bobby Abreu (2004)

SP – Kevin Gross (1985), Danny Jackson (1994), Curt Schilling (1997), Robert Person (2000), Cole Hamels (2008)

RP – Greg Harris (1988), Mitch Williams (1991), Jose Mesa (2001), Billy Wagner (2005)

Notable exceptions: Jim Thome (2003), Placido Polanco (2003), Dave Hollins (1992), Jayson Werth (2009), Shane Rawley (1985), Tommy Greene (1991), Brett Myers (2005), J.A. Happ (2009), Doug Jones (1994), Brad Lidge (2008)

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huh?

by MalibuLSV23 on Jul 28, 2010 10:14 PM EDT reply actions

That guy to the right of Mike Schmidt. Yeah, he never played here.

by philiafan14364 on Jul 28, 2010 10:25 PM EDT reply actions

Scotty?

Yeah, over on Viva El Birdos we do the same thing with that guy who just got traded to the Angels. His name just shows up as a blank on our website.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2010 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Haha, that trade was just awful for you guys.

by philiafan14364 on Jul 29, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

some tremendously improbable career years in there.

by Wet Luzinski on Jul 28, 2010 10:50 PM EDT reply actions

Fun project

Seems like more of an offseason thing though. I wouldn’t have the patience to take on something like this while there are games on.

So you don’t have any kind of statistical criteria for choosing one player-season over another? I know Glanville had a nice year and particularly a gaudy batting average in 1999, but any list that includes Doug Glanville on a list of best player-seasons seems like it needs a change in methodology. Without even looking at the numbers I can tell you for sure Jayson Werth’s 2009 was better.

by phatj on Jul 28, 2010 10:50 PM EDT reply actions

And how the HELL do you put Jose fucking Mesa over Lidge 2008? That one extra save Mesa had?

by phatj on Jul 28, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions

b/c as magical as lidge’s season was, without hamels in 2008, we don’t win the series.

"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone

by layout ultimate on Jul 28, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Relief seasons

The four spots available for relievers often got used to fill in gaps. 2001 happened to be one of those: Rolen, Abreu, Rollins & Glanville all had better years, which leaves you with Marlon Anderson and Jose Mesa. And I certainly wouldn’t pick Anderson over Samuel and Utley – that leaves Joe Table.

Hamels season was one of the best for a starting pitcher you’ve had in this era. Sometimes you end up wasting a perfectly good (pun kinda intended) because somebody else was better or more deserving. For instance, when I worked on the Cardinals, I had to choose between Willie McGee’s MVP season in 1985 and John Tudor’s (21-8, 1.93) campaign that was outdone only by Dwight Gooden. It was a heck of a year for Willie, but it was by far the best pitching season for a Redbird hurler.

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2010 7:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh, right. I forgot you have to pick somebody from each season.

Makes it hard to really pick individual selections apart without trying to do the whole thing.

by phatj on Jul 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Glanville

Off the top of my head I would simply state that sometimes you have to pick somebody for any given season and you might get stuck taking someone that you normally wouldn’t. That said, Glanville had an arguably better season than Werth did last year. Doug was a heck of a defensive player and posted a WARP1 of 6.2, compared to 5.0 for Jayson. You could make better cases against Hayes and Eisenreich (who else are you going to pick for ’95? Heathcliff? Morandini?).

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2010 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Notable exceptions? I think the phrase you’re looking for is “honorable mentions.”

by yosoysean on Jul 28, 2010 10:56 PM EDT reply actions

I write math contests in my spare time, but this is a far dorkier activity. Nice work.

by essman on Jul 29, 2010 7:27 AM EDT reply actions

Thanks?!?

It’s cool. I know I have an unhealthy obsession with Excel.

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2010 8:18 AM EDT reply actions

I’ve got an excel obsession as well, and I’ve learned that sharing it with my wife has helped me become less dependant. Nothing good ever comes from showing her some new spreadsheet.

by Bilzo on Jul 29, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

reply fail

dang! SBN’d again!

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2010 8:19 AM EDT reply actions

a closer who doesnt blow a save the entire year gets left off?

by Aaron King on Jul 29, 2010 7:26 PM EDT reply actions

yes. b/c there was a guy who would have broken the MLB record for ins in a single postseason by going 5-0 if it weren’t for Bud Selig being a dumbass. I realize 48-48 is amazing, and I’m not trying to take anything from Lidge, but we do not win the series without hamels in the playoffs, as I said in an earlier reply

"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone

by layout ultimate on Jul 29, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Look at it this way

If you add Lidge and remove Hamels (you can’t have both), you need to lose a reliever and add a starter. Let’s look at the bullpen:
If Harris goes away, your only option in 1988 is Gross, who is already in for 1985 with basically the same year. Switching teams for him means you replace ‘08 Hamels with ’85 Shane Rawley.
If Williams (in terms of WARP1, a superior season to Lidge) goes away, you replace him with ’91 Tommy Greene; not bad but not Hamels.
If Mesa gets pulled, you get … Randy Wolf? Or Marlon Anderson, who’ll need to bump Utley or Samuel off the list, and be replaced by ‘09 J.A. Happ or ’87 Shane Rawley.
If Wagner gets cut, Brett Myers makes the team.
Unless you’re switching two relievers, starters or outfielders from the same season, you have to make tradeoffs along the way. Seriously, give this exercise a shot. It’s not that difficult – just pick the stats you want to work with and then compare every player of significance over the last 25 years. It will take a while (probably around 12-15 hours, 8-10 once you get the hang of it after 16 teams) and you need to make sure every year and every roster spot gets filled, but it’s not hard – just time consuming. You’ll have to make tough decisions if you want to make the roster fair or you can make sure that your favorites are in there and patch up the rest of the roster with duct tape.

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions