Ouch! Nationals 7, Phillies 5
by David S. Cohen on Jul 31, 2010 11:00 PM EDT
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PrintThe Phillies brought with them to D.C. an 8 game win streak and a shiny new number 1a starting pitcher. They were playing a 5th place team that was 14 games under .500.
Last night, in the first game, their second ace named Roy took the mound.
Tonight, in the second game, they fought back from a 4-1 deficit to take a 5-4 lead in the top of the ninth inning on Carlos Ruiz's third hit and second RBI of the night.
Naturally, they lost both games.
Last night, Roy Oswalt's shaky performance backed by Greg Dobbs' horrible defense did them in. Tonight, it was Joe Blanton's rocky start and Brad Lidge's even rockier end that cooked them.
Tomorrow, Cole Hamels takes the mound against Phillies arch-enemy John Lannan. The Phillies hope to salvage the series and prevent the Nationals from having their first three-game win streak since early June.
WARNING: The Fangraph win probability graph below is not for the weak of heart....
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Re-post from game thread:
Cholly needs to do something about Lidge or Ruben needs to do something about Cholly.
"He's my closer." --an idiot
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2010 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think that last spike occurred after Lidge bent over for zimmerman
by The Fish on Jul 31, 2010 11:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Now that they have Matt Capps, maybe we could get Rauch assuming the Twins would and can move him…totally just off the top of my head. Haven’t looked at Rauch’s stats. but he has was closing for the Twins with some initial success.
The problem with trading for closers is that the asking price is astronomical, considering how volatile relief pitchers are. The Phils are better off promoting from within if possible, or bringing someone up from the farm.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Mathieson. Period.
And in post-game interviews, Cholly repeats that same tired line. I don’t know if he believes that Lidge can actually “return to form” or if he just doesn’t want to hurt his feelings…and frankly I don’t know which is worse. Because for every save Lidge blows, it is 24 other guys who are having their hard work negated by their manager’s stubbornness.
"He's my closer." --an idiot
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For some reason, they don’t really seem to like Mathieson, do they? He gets one shot, throws too many fastballs and gets hit around and that’s it, huh? No second chances?
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
No second chances?
Thats funny considering…
by philiafan14364 on Aug 1, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I agree but do you really think it will really happen. At best Matheison gets a call up if someone in the BP gets hurt. Charlie won’t let him close.
And perhaps that makes sense, as throwing a young pitcher into the highest leverage situation in the game (at least initially) is a disaster waiting to happen. I don’t think Aro is going to trade for relief help (he said they were still looking, but that relief help is hard to come by). So, barring injury, the team is stuck with what they have… And I guess Lidge is the best of the bad options.
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2010 12:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok… Limiting the options to the current bullpen, who would you have close?
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2010 2:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone. Literally.
"He's my closer." --an idiot
by FuquaManuel on Aug 1, 2010 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well he’s not really a closer in the big dollar sense, besides we lucked out with Oswalt, could happen again with Rauch though I doubt it. Like i said I know nothing about him other than when I saw him play for the Nats and what he did for the Twins earlier this season. He could be a total bust.
The Phils are better off promoting from within if possible, or bringing someone up from the farm.
Ideally yes, but that aint gonna happen this year unless someone in the pen goeas down.
Sincerely doubt Rauch makes it through waivers at this point though, j reed. Or, even if he would, I’m not sure the Twins would want to subtract from the very area they overpaid to strengthen at the deadline.
As an English soccer manager once said, “We have to wee with the willy we’ve got.” I love that phrase, and it’s apropos here.
by PhillyFriar on Aug 1, 2010 8:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I know it’s a 162 game season and I normally try to stay level-headed, but this game has me furious. Roy Oswalt losing his debut is understandable, but Lidge blowing yet another game is something the worst manager or GM in baseball could have foreseen.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Just read Stark’s winners/losers at trade deadline and there’s a quote in there from a scout saying the Phils could be sorry they dealt Happ because he’s a “Cliff Lee lite”.
What?
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Cliff Lee O’Doul’s.
"He's my closer." --an idiot
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Stark also said
Antonio Bastardo was the next Johan Santana
"Bills everywhere, trill everything, and Drake just stand for Do Right And Kill Everything..."
Words can’t express how much anger and spit I have towards Brad Lidge
This is fucking worse than when Goose dies in Top Gun
such horseshit
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~Thomas Jefferson
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Aug 1, 2010 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
Spite, although spit works too
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~Thomas Jefferson
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Aug 1, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
If such is the case (and I partially agree with you), then Lidge should admit that he is not capable of the task that he is being appointed. Part of doing a job is knowing your limits, and when you obviously can’t perform at the level asked, the responsibility is on the employer and the employee.
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~Thomas Jefferson
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Aug 1, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I remeber last year Lidge wasnt exactly saying “Dont worry coach, Ill gettem next time!” I have to assume hes still in the mindset of “Ill try my best, but if someone else can come in a do a better job, they by all means should”.
by philiafan14364 on Aug 1, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
"If I'm going to be asked to cook the meal, I'd like to be able to pick the groceries." Bill Parcells
And who, pray tell, should Manuel send out there— assuming that the only thing he gets to choose is who of the 25 men on the roster he sends out, and not who is on the roster? Baez and Herndon are out, as they are barely adequate to inadequate in lower leverage situations. This leaves Durbin, Romero, Contreras, Madson, and Lidge. Durbin is the long reliever, so he is out, as he is needed for multi-inning coverage duty. Of the 4 left, Romero is a lefty specialist, and has dropped the ball pretty bad in some high leverage situation. This leaves us with the three headed monster of Madson, Contreras, and Lidge to set up and close— and all three of them have had good and bad moments this season, leaving me with a pick-em attitude as to which of the three to use. Given the choices, I don’t know that I blame Manuel for sticking with Lidge.
This leads me to blame the man who is buying the groceries, so to speak. Ruben Amaro Junior, Come on Down! You are the next contestant in the who I should be angry at contest… What is that you say that you neither blew the save, nor picked the pitcher? True… But you saw how this pitch pitched last year, and your idea of good bullpen signings was Contreras and Baez… Walk the Plank!
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2010 2:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone. Literally anyone on this team would be a better option for 9th innings than Lidge. Lidge now has 80 innings of ineptitude under his belt.
"He's my closer." --an idiot
by FuquaManuel on Aug 1, 2010 11:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
one of the few thing I actually agree with you on
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~Thomas Jefferson
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Aug 1, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
I still hate John Lannan and my loathing for him will likely last throughout the entirety of his career. Please beat the everlasting f*** out of that guy tomorrow (today). k, thanks.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
So night two of witnessing Phillies carnage in person. Lidge’s fastball was topping out at 90-91, and he had zippy command of it.
On a brighter note, my cousin (phillyphan9208) and I witnessed a college-aged girl completely puke her guts out onto the concrete floor in the seat next to us. Too much beer, I suppose. All in a night at the DC Mallpark.
This has to be the death knell for Lidge’s time as a closer, right? I mean, the guy couldn’t put the ball within 3 feet of where he wanted it. Shit, he’s kinda lucky the Nats were at home so they only had the chance to score 3 runs.
Unfortunately no. Manuel is still using his tired refrain “Brad Lidge is our closer.”
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2010 11:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gillick
I curse Gillick every day for handing that asinine contract to Lidge back in 2008. I’ll refrain myself from going off on a broader rant regarding paying any reliever $12 million a year, because I think we’re all generally in agreement on that front.
But I’m honestly not sure where to go from here. Charlie played the matchups on Thursday and got burned for it, so turning back to Lidge here (especially after the 10th inning he fired Thursday) was a natural reaction. There are certainly better relievers on the club — Madson and Contreras spring immediately to mind — but I don’t foresee Charlie altering the bullpen pecking order anytime soon. If anything, we should take his unorthodox actions Thursday, and his willingness to deploy Romero against lefties, as a good sign going forward.
As for Lidge himself… I mean, what is there to say? His velocity has slowly been dwindling over the previous years, and this was a guy who never had particularly good command in the first place. His slider is still an effective weapon against righties, but his fastball is either all over the place or right down Broadway (graciás, says Mr. Zimmerman). That can be effective at 97, but at 91 it’s a veritable disaster. If Charlie insists on using Lidge as his nominal closer, he at the very least has to be ready to yank him if he’s displaying that kind of command. Wishful thinking, I know.
by PhillyFriar on Aug 1, 2010 8:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
One last point about bullpen usage.
I hate, hate, HATE that Charlie thinks he needs to use Romero in combination with Madson. Madson has one of the best change ups in the game and doesn’t feature much of a platoon split at all; add in the fact that Ed your best reliever, and I can count on one hand the number of scenarios in which it makes sense to yank Madson to go with Romero for matchups. You want to get the most innings from your best relievers, plain and simple.
(Really, Romero should be paired with Lidge for that purpose — we all know that when Lidge misses by an inch on back-footing a slider to a lefty, it winds up in the right field seats.)
by PhillyFriar on Aug 1, 2010 9:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
All of this makes perfect sense. Therefore because of that reason, none of this will ever be employed – using Romero with Lidge rather than Madson.
I just wish that Charlie and co. would take a little more pragmatic approach and ditch the asinine quixotic approach of loyalty and ‘the book’.
by WanderingMoses on Aug 1, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s why we lost game 4 in 2009 for crying out loud. It’s crazy to me that he is STILL blindly loyal to Lidge after that.
"He's my closer." --an idiot
Because it is all in the mystical, magical ‘Book’:
“In inning the ninth, when thou hast a lead not exceeding three runs, thou shalt bringeth in the entity known as thy Closer. For it is in Holy Writ that violation of this command of the Book. If ye anyone hast the temerity to reject this definition, let him be anathema”
by WanderingMoses on Aug 1, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I am telling you nothing and I mean nothing gets a team more fired up to come back than when Lidge takes the mound. You can see last year and this how excited the other duggout is when he comes in they know than that their chances of coming back is 80%. That is why the Phillies struggle. Every team knows that if you can stay with us the BP will come out and you will probably win. That is why I blame this on Charlie. I bet he put Lidge’s dick in his mouth aftwards saying its OK it is just one game.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
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