Some Phillies Links for You, July 7, 2010: Brown Pushing, Happ Slap
by WholeCamels on Jul 7, 2010 8:01 AM EDT
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PrintHamels solid, but Phils held to three hits | phillies.com: News
I usually don't buy into this, but there are some awfully telling quotes in here...
The Phillies Scoop: Amaro doesn’t rule out uncorking Dom
Oh, puns.
Top Phillies prospect Brown might not stay at Triple A very long
<3 <3 <3
Bill Conlin: King of the World: Jumping on a Cliff
Jeepers.
Phillies Notes: Happ sent down; Ruiz OK'd for rehab
It's probably the right thing to do, but this organization seems to specialize in making J.A. Happ unhappy.
Phillies Can’t Let Utley Rush Himself Back The Way Rollins Did | GCOBB.COM
I buy the general premise, but this is a totally different kind of injury.
Cam Bedrosian signs contract with L.A. Angels
Son of the Phillies' last Cy Young Award winner is rich, beeyotch!!
Spectator falls from 2nd deck in Texas' park - The Denver Post
I'm not posting any links but the broadcast of the game was just terrible. The player, crowd and crew reactions were really chilling.
Mets 3, Reds 0: Johan Shuts 'Em Out, Hits One Out - Amazin' Avenue
Johan Santana threw a shutout and hit the decisive solo home run to knock off the first place Reds. Kill me.
Washington Nationals' Ryan Zimmerman Hits Walk-Off HR To Beat San Diego Padres, 6-5 final. - Federal Baseball
Offense is pretty neat.
Kemp, Dodgers Overpower Marlins, 7-3 - True Blue LA
All I need to know is, is Josh Johnson available? No? Phooey.
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I think Bobby Cox wrote Talking Chop's game recap.
Eric Hinske then followed with some added insurance runs in the form of a toweringfly-balltwo-run homerun (I forgot which ballpark this was for a moment).
Kinda surprised they forgot which ballpark they were in — I mean, there were fans there, so it clearly wasn’t in Atlanta.
Out of the mouths of their fans (who visit this site)
You guys will win tomorrow the Braves couldn’t hit Jamie Moyer if their lives depended on it
I sure hope that they are right
We understand...
that it makes you feel better to pretend no one comes to our game. You have to have something. I’m pretty sure our team appreciates an average crowd of 30,000 (who really seem to like being there and stay until the game is over) more than a bigger audience booing them, vomiting on each other, and taking off in the top of the 11th when the team gets behind. I know our pitchers would rather have a few extra empty seats in a bigger park than having to pitch 82 games in a filled-up little park.
Live by the teensy little ballpark, die by the teensy little ballpark.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
wow
That was super harsh there, dude.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
no one complains about our ballpark being small except for other teams and the media. Last time I checked the best pitcher in baseball was willing to take less money to play here.
Plus…it was 85 games this year, idiot :P
by Clyde Simmons on Jul 7, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
truth, I was just adding 3 to his number…didnt even think to think if his was right
by Clyde Simmons on Jul 7, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If you guys are going to toss grenades, be prepared to get some lobbed back your way. Your response is a tad sensitive.
Oh, and I’ve been to games in Atlanta; they don’t all stay until the games are over. I don’t blame them, though, because that place gets f*cking hot.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
by doubleh on Jul 7, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We have the 2nd highest attendance in the MLB. We average 15,000 more fans per game than Atlanta (that’s over 150% of your attendance). Clearly Atlanta isn’t the Marlins which really have no fans.
by Cormican on Jul 7, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Booing reference? Check.
Vomiting reference? Check.
Tiny ballpark reference? Check.
Please come back when you have something original to say, instead of drawing all of your “insults” from whatever you’ve heard Skip Bayless and Colin Cowherd ramble on about regarding Philadelphia.
Missed Santa Claus and Michael Irvin, too.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Who?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Yeah, so why don’t you come to Philly so I can vomit on you? Better yet, I’ll have sex with you for World Series tickets. Then we can go get tased by the police. If we are lucky we will run into Santa. We’ll eat a hoagie or two, have some scrapple, grab some wooder ice, and then we’ll go to Geno’s (hope you speak english). Finally, our adventure will conclude with a run down the parkway and up the art museum steps.
by FuquaManuel on Jul 7, 2010 2:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Oh, and we can reenact the movie “Philadelphia,” as long as I get to be Denzel Washington’s character and you die in the end.
by FuquaManuel on Jul 7, 2010 2:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And rape and murder little boys.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't it funny?
You’re apparently accusing me of having stereotypes of Philadelphia. My whole point is that apparently you folks have decided to buy into the meme that the Braves have no fans, despite the fact that it’s simply not true. I seem to have picked up a bit of “all southerners are incestuous, toothless, uneducated, hood-wearing hillbillies” vibe here as well, but that’s “different”, I suppose.
Of course I know that you can’t judge all fans in a city by a few, but do you?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
And sort by percentage…the braves average 60% capacity at home
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is...
the original post was implying that there are no fans at games in Atlanta, and all the seats are empty. Just not a fact. An average of 30,000 may be “mediocre” by your definition, but it’s not empty by any stretch. So what if the percentage of capacity is lower? That just means there are more seats. If Philly’s park held 100,000 and averaged 50,000 in attendance does would only having 50% of capacity mean they’re not good fans?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Keep in mind that’s paid attendance, not the amount of people who actually showed up.
Yes, your point about 50% of 100,000 would be valid if this was big 10 football
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
???
Atlanta probably has more people actually showing up than paying….
What does football have to do with anything?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
You’re the one who brought up 100,000 seat stadium, which seems to be an invalid argument as those seem to only exist (in the us) for college football.
So what you’re saying is that people are sneaking into the games rather than paying?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
No...
but they do give quite a few tickets to local charities, especially to those serving children.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Someone pays for those tickets, and teams usually do that because they can’t find other people to buy them, to pump up attendance numbers.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Simply making the point...
that you can’t say we have terrible attendance because we have 59% of capacity when it would be a larger percentage if the park was smaller. That seems pretty obvious.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
If you were in the smallest park in baseball, you'd have 88.6% attendance
That would be pretty good, actually, but it would mean they’d be in the smallest park in baseball.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Percentage capacity is relevant in that the Phillies could probably draw more than 45,000 per game if the ballpark had more seats. So a direct comparison between the Phillies’ 45,000 and the Braves’ 30,000 understates the gap between the two teams. Comparing percentages wouldn’t necessarily be completely accurate either, but if you look at both percentages and raw numbers simultaneously, it gives a more accurate picture.
Obviously, when people say that Braves’ ballpark is “empty,” it’s hyperbole – exaggeration to make a point. It isn’t literally empty. However, their attendance is, in fact, below average when you adjust for the quality of the team and the size and wealth of the market. They vastly underperform compared to how you what you would predict for the ninth-largest metropolitan area in the United States with a team that has generally been very successful on the field for the last twenty years.
I always thought it was terrible that every single playoff game didn’t sell out in Atlanta during the 90’s. While the stadium wasn’t empty, there were an unacceptable number of empty seats (from my recollection, at least).
They did sell out when they played the Cubs. My understanding is that there aren’t a lot of Native Atlantans compared to people who grew up somewhere else and moved to Atlanta, so the sports fans already have an allegiance.
Much like the Rays in Florida who get better attendance when a team like the Red Sox comes to town.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
I can remember trying to order tickets, and not being able to get them because they were supposedly “sold out”. I don’t live in Atlanta, I’m about 5 hours away.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
This was on several different occasions...
in the 1990’s.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I understand that.
I just gets under my skin when opposing fan bases say that Braves fans are the “worst” fans in baseball, just because we don’t sell out every game. We have reasonably good attendance considering that a huge part of the fan base lives outside the metropolitan area.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Why does it bother you so much what other people think about you? Are the braves fans the worst? They probably aren’t. However, even with the team in first place they are 13th in home attendance, so that doesn’t indicate one of the better fanbases either.
Braves have some of the most mediocre fans in baseball. Is that ok?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever...
fine by me.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I’m not all that enthralled of Yankee fans, or cubs fans, or nats fan
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Pittsburgh fans.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I’m surrounded by them and they never shut the F up. They talk a lot of smack considering their team hasn’t been relevant since the first Bush administration…HW Bush. Plus, they constantly like to tell me how bad Philly fans are, moreso than any other fan I’ve ever encountered. Met fans can be a lot of fun, as can Boston fans, but Pitt fans? Forget it.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Boston fans are fun— particularly the football kind… I went to a Patriots game last year, and I think it is the best fan experience I have had— the people were so nice.
Not that I do not love baseball games at the Bank… just a different vibe.
Just a tip from a Boston resident: beware of Patriots football fans… odds are they didn’t give a shit about the team before 10 years ago.
I made the original snarky comment, and as TP correctly pointed out, it was obviously hyperbole.
That being said, if Talking Chop is going to go all Bobby Cox and bitch and moan about the size of CBP, I hardly think a bit of snarkiness — in the comments section of our blog, mind you — is out of line. If you’re overly sensitive about that, I’d politely suggest steering clear.
I'm right here.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I mean, the South has an interesting history, I’ll say that much.
by FuquaManuel on Jul 7, 2010 5:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Last Night's Loss
The quotes from last night’s loss show a darkness that has fallen over this team— like they have fallen and can’t seem to get back up. They also show the first signs of something more worrisome— splits within the clubhouse. While it is certainly aggravating that Werth did not swing, I was more than a little surprised that Manuel called him out for it. I know that there are 81 games to go, but I think this team is starting to pack it in.
I’m not going to go all crazy today because I’m pretty swamped, but I will just point out that we have almost nothing to gain from this.
What do we gain from trading Werth ? Prospects are better than picks, but in the apparent absence of a strong market for corner outfielders, would they be that much better in this particular case? Especially if teams know the Phillies are going into it with the extremely disadvantageous trade posture that Bilzo, Bottalico, and others suggest they take? The likely gain from this is very small at best.
What do we gain from promoting Brown? He isn’t likely to be that much better than Werth (or, frankly, Ibanez) in the very short term. He’ll gain a little experience, but his development could also be negatively impacted. And it is definite that his service clock will be started more quickly, and that we’ll have done it for no apparent reason. This is almost certainly a net negative.
Basically, what’s really going on here is that bored, mindless fans just want a shiny new toy to play with and don’t want to be bothered with actually having to think hard about the costs, benefits, and consequences. If Brown or the team are negatively affected as a result, they can always just blame Brown later for underachieving.
Also, this is not to take away from Brown’s AAA performance, which has been legitimately fantastic, but his BABIP there so far is .419.
Also, stats translate downward at each level. His current ridiculous AAA stats convert to a .359/.392/.647 line, which is still stinkin’ good, but not the .400+ he’s hitting in the minors.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
True— but does anybody hit .400 in the majors for any type of period? I would take .359 from any of ours every day of the week.
He isn’t likely to do that either considering his sample size and BABIP. All that indicates is that he’s capable of hitting .359 during a hot streak. That’s great, but so is Werth and so is Ibanez.
True… I was more pointing out that if he could hit .359 over a large sample size, I would be overjoyed with it.
I’d be happy with .300, frankly. That would put him 32nd in the league in BA, between Rolen and Youkilis. Nobody’s hitting over .344 (Morneau)/.437 (Morneau)/.631 (Cabrera), with the top OPS being Morneau’s 1.051. That 1.039 from Brown’s projected stats would be 3rd in the majors, behind Morneau and Cabrera. League average is .732, so anything over that is gravy.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
As would I— I was more talking about how I would feel about his adjusted number if it had any basis in reality.
I’m throwing in the towel on this season and looking forward to next year, and letting Dom get used to life at the majors. The only potential disaster here is if he truly lays an egg and it kills his confidence to a point that he can’t recover.
I think this is a less likely event for a batter than a pitcher, but have nothing other than gut feeling to back that up because a pitcher goes out there every 5 days and if he stinks it up, he stinks it up to multiple batters in a row and then gets 5 days to think it over. While a fielder can slump, he’s rarely going to fan 8 appearances in a row, and even if he does, a double in the gap makes them forget about it.
If you’re a pitcher and you walk 3 guys in a row and then strike one out, you’ve still got the bases loaded.
The one thing that i agree with RAJ on is this
Dominic Brown needs to stay in the minors until HE is ready— and until there is a place on the big league squad for him to play every day. In his sit down with reporters he showed every sign that he understood that Brown needs more time— that while he may not be over his head in the majors, that there is a difference between his being over his head and dominating, and that they were going to wait for him to be closer to the second one. I am glad that he is taking the longterm view here, and not trying to rush him up.
I’m for trading Werth IF the price is right and IF we somehow fall way out of position by the time the deadline nears. I don’t think the second part of that will happen, though we could see some tempting offers. Promoting Brown before September callups would not be a smart idea; if you trade Werth then Francisco becomes the everyday outfielder.
by Baseball Nerd on Jul 7, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you on the conditions for trading Werth, but I think we will see Brown sooner rather than later if he is traded.
Unfortunately, I agree. I’d rather not start Brown’s clock earlier than we have to, but if you trade Werth it seems hard to avoid bringing up Brown.
by Baseball Nerd on Jul 7, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The Phillies haven’t really rushed or abused a prospect since the days of Fregosi. I just think the platoon without Brown better fits their MO. Of course they were never in contention, with the top prospect in baseball before, so that makes it a special case.
True and I had temporarily forgotten about the prospect of a Francisco / Mayberry platoon. But, like you said, Brown is the top prospect in baseball right now so that might change how RAJ handles the situation. With that said, I hope they opt for a Mayberry / Francisco platoon at least until September if Werth is traded. We start Brown’s clock later, and he gets some more experience at the AAA level. Given how the Phillies generally operate, this seems more likely, but with Brown’s abilities right now RAJ might bring him up, and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he did, even with their MO for keeping guys in the minors.
by Baseball Nerd on Jul 7, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
It could just be my perception but it seems like while the phillies ‘wait’ on position players, they are ‘faster’ on pitchers? Maybe out of necessity more than anything else?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
They were OK with Hamels, and if anything they were pretty reluctant to give Happ a chance. One difficulty in analyzing this is that they just haven’t had many really good pitching prospects over the years.
My impression was that Hamels wasn’t really rushed even though he had a minimal amount of minor league starts so much as that he was pretty mature already and suffered fluke (stupid?) injuries that weren’t all that baseball related. He missed time and was progressed like he had pitched during the injuries anyway?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hamels’ minor league numbers are filthy disgusting. Whenever he was healthy, he forced the Phillies’ hand at each level — that is to say, he wasn’t rushed at all.
I was thinking more along the lines of Floyd, Kendrick (necessity) and possibly Happ, or are this years troubles purely injury related which hopefully isn’t related the the amount he pitched last year?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a firm believer that everyone better start getting used to a Ben Francisco/John Mayberry Jr. platoon for the rest of 2010 if Werth gets traded.
Fair enough. A GM should always listen to offers for anyone, under any circumstances.
But it’s a problem if the GM starts talking to other GMs with the attitude “I want to trade Player X to get what I can for him so I can bring up Player Y.” That puts a thumb on the scale and makes it more less likely that you’ll actually make an advantageous deal.
I agree. Amaro needs to listen to all offers and weigh all options, otherwise he wouldn’t be fully doing his job. If someone calls us about Werth and has some ideas, you listen to them and then weigh them against everyone else, no matter how against trading him you might be.
But you don’t just trade Werth to get whatever you can so you can bring up Brown. If the price is right, then maybe you go for it, but we can’t just dump Werth here knowing that he’s going to be a free agent and decide to hell with it, let’s see what we can get and just bring up that Brown kid. If Brown has an awful start in the majors because he wasn’t ready, who knows what that could do to him psychologically down the road.
by Baseball Nerd on Jul 7, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Latrell Spreewell
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 7, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The question you have to ask yourself is:
What do we gain from keeping Werth on this team if he continues to exhibit piss-poor batting performances the rest of the season?
I think it’s more of do you trade him now while he still has some value, or do you gamble and hope that he recovers by the trade deadline to get better return on value or do you get screwed because he declines from here on out.
It’s a catch-22. If he improves, then the team is likely doing better, you’re back closer in the race, and dealing him at the deadline becomes a bad idea, then you run the risk of the team missing the playoffs and getting nothing in return. Similar to your crappy team winning meaningless games at the end of the season only to hurt their draft position.
I cut bait now.
I know Werth hasn’t set the world on fire recently, but he’s still been worth 2.1 WAR this year, and has a pretty established track record over the past few years. I sincerely doubt he “declines from here on out.”
No PF you don’t understand. Whatever trends are happening right this second are necessarily going to continue on into infinity.
Jayson Werth has had 2 seasons of 130+ games with an OPS+ of 120-130.
Which is exactly how many Garrett Atkins has had.
Now he’s had injury problems as well…I’ll admit that, but to say that Werth v.2009 should be the expectation is not realistic.
Nah… but the fact that he has had two improving seasons makes me hope that he is not suddenly turning into a pumpkin
I’m hopeful too, but the reality is nobody can accurately tell you what Werth is going to do, and his recent streakiness during a time of offensive futility and injuries certainly has magnified his current suckiness. Essentially, now is when they need him (and Howard) to rake, and he’s gone in the tank.
that’s fair.
My stance is “this season is lost, get as much for him as you can while you can before it gets too late or you are teased into thinking you have a chance only to get absolutely nothing in return.”
Here is a question— has this streakiness been a habit of his in the past?? I am wondering if his present futility is not magnified to some level by a combination of his pending free agent status (expecting a big year since he is about to walk), the offensive futility the whole team is experiencing proving him with nobody to cover for him, and the fact that the injuries have shown the magnifying glass on him even more?
Werth’s 2008: .273/.363/.498 — .382 wOBA
Werth’s 2009: .268/.373/.506 — .382 wOBA
Werth’s 2010: .282/.366/.523 — .381 wOBA
2007 was half a season.
What was wrong with 2005 when he also played half a year?
(out of baseball in 2006).
Werth’s 2007: .298/.404/.459 — .385 wOBA
And yes, he had wrist injuries in 2005, which is why he didn’t play at all in 2006 and was non-tendered by the Dodgers.
My point here is: where’s the decline? I’m not seeing it yet.
ok.. his last 6 weeks may just be regression to the mean. I’ll readily admit that his recent suckitude is not as bad as he really is.
ok.. his last 6 weeks may just be regression to the mean. I’ll readily admit that his recent suckitude is not as bad as he really is.Regardless, I don’t think this team makes the playoffs, so I unload him for the best I can get.
ok.. his last 6 weeks may just be regression to the mean. I’ll readily admit that his recent suckitude is not as bad as he really is.Regardless, I don’t think this team makes the playoffs, so I unload him for the best I can get.(I’m agreeing with you saying he’s not that bad, but it doesn’t change my outlook on the season and his value being better as trade bait if there’s no intent on re-signing him)
Ha, you got your point home at least.
When it comes down to it, I’m as down on this team as anyone. But realistically, they’re not that far out of things right now, they can probably stay in the race with a decent patch job trade for Wigginton or Lopez or someone, and with an aging team, I don’t see how it behooves them to trade Werth when they need to be taking every single shot at winning a World Series that they can with this team in its prime.
Stated another way: Werth’s last 2 months here, plus the two draft picks he’ll provide upon departure, are worth more to this team than anything they’d get back for him in a trade.
I don’t fully understand the three part slash line, but would it be right to say that averaging his bad with his good, Werth is the same player he has been the last two years give or take a small amount? Is there any measure available that looks at a player’s consistency over the course of the season (read the difference between a guy who is either red hot or stone cold versus a player who is middle of the road— never boiling hot, but also not prone to being ice cold?
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we keep Werth, is the compensation 2 1st rounders ala if we had kept Cliff or ?
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
With the caveat that top half of the first round picks are protected, and beyond that, we’re only guaranteed a team’s first pick if Werth is the top Elias rated free agent they sign.
Say, for instance, the Yankees sign Werth and Cliff Lee; the M’s would get the 1st round pick because Lee has a higher Elias ranking (right now) than Werth, and we’d wind up with the Yankees 2nd round pick (probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 80th overall) in addition to a sandwich pick.
All that said, Amaro must offer Werth arbitration.
Considering he wants to be a free agent so would definitely turn it down right
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully Gillick ‘the consultant’ texts him
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean, Werth has talked about free agency for awhile now — it’ll be the big payday of his career, so it’s a totally understandable sentiment — so I can’t in any way see him delaying it until he’s 32 by accepting arbitration. But I have this (probably irrational) nightmare of Rube stuttering, “Well, we wanted to keep payroll flexibility, and…”
Hopefully he doesn’t try to outsmart himself somehow… that was a caveat of the expiring player contract I didn’t know about. So the Phillies would’ve gotten 2 1st rounders for Lee, had they offered arbitration or would they have?
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
According to Conlin, the Cliff Lee deal:
looks more and more pointless and arbitrary with each passing day
Anyone understand what he’s basing this on, aside from the fact that RAJ now claims we’re in the market for starting pitching?
Well, that and the fact that it was pointless and arbitrary the day it was made.
by David S. Cohen on Jul 7, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
We disagree on that, but even if that were the case, it would still be wrong to say that the trade “looks more and more pointless and arbitrary with each passing day.” Whatever it was at the beginning, that’s what it is now. The rest is feelings.
It could look more pointed and less arbitrary if the prospects turned out to have something that we didn’t see on day 1 or if Lee faltered for a reason that we didn’t anticipate (but that maybe the Phillies saw).
by David S. Cohen on Jul 7, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand that one can always have more pitching, but can not help but feel that RAJ is really missing the boat in terms of this team’s biggest needs. While I would love to see pitching brought in, I think energy would be better spent on suring up the bullpen and bringing in a bat (although I am not so sure on the second one considering the performance of the regulars). Considering how many quality starts this team has wasted due to pitching and or hitting in the past month, I have a hard time believing that another starting pitcher is going to change things.
Long term, the Phillies have Brown ready to come up next year and tons of promising bats years away from being ready. They hvae Utley, Howard, Victorino, Rollins and Peanuthead locked up for a few to several more seasons.
For pitching, they have no starters above A ball who have serious MLB rotation potential. Of their 6 starters (including Happ) one is nearly 50, one is wildly inconsistent (KK) and one is probably a career #4 (Happ). Assume that after this year you’ll need to replace Moyer and Kendrick, and have no one in the system ready to. Starting pitching is their biggest long term need and Haren is a high quality #2 entering his prime.
Bullpen is too unpredictable to make long term plans on, plus the team has some nice bullpen arms in AA (Schwimmer) and AAA (Mathieson).
Ramirez is above A ball now, if just barely.
I’m actually not terribly worried about next year’s rotation. 2012 is where it gets dicey.
Actually I keep forgetting that we have control of Hamels through 2012, not 2011, so maybe 2012 will still be OK. Halladay will be turning 35 that year though.
Forgot about JC. Still, we’re pretty far from having any SPs ready to call up in 2011 (even in case of emergency). 2013 would give some time for one of the prospects to be ready for a call up to the MLB rotation (it’s a bit of a stretch, but possible).
I was more talking short term than long— what would help this season. I am against them bringing in a rent-a-pitcher that they only intend on keeping around for the second half, as I do not think that it increases this team’s potential to be a contender that much. However, if the starting pitcher they are looking at is either a long term deal that we could trade for or somebody that they are able to work a longterm deal with as part of the trade, I start to feel far more open about a trade for starting pitching. Haren fits the bill of what I would be looking for, as his contract extends well beyond this season.
I hate to keep repeating myself, but be prepared for massive disappointment when you see what Jack Z is able to get for a half-season of Cliff Lee (in comparison to what Rube got for a full season of Cliff Lee).
starting pitching, unless capable of throwing a shutout every game, does not help this team.
Offense, and bullpen. That’s what’s needed.
Dan Haren wouldn’t be an upgrade? Before you answer, remember that Kendrick still has a rotation spot.
I agree that we could use a stopgap bat in the meantime, but I’m leery of the idea of trading for bullpen help. Lidge/Madson/Contreras is a solid back of the bullpen, and Romero has seen his velocity tick back up and should be effective as a LOOGY.
Yes he’d be an upgrade. Then the team would lose 3-1 instead of 6-1. Either way they still lose, which makes it a senseless upgrade.
Dude, I think I pick on you way less than most on here, but you saying Dan Haren is a “senseless upgrade” is pretty dumb.
I don’t care how often you pick on me compared to others. I listen to reasonable arguments and ignore name calling.
What is Dan Haren going to do to fix the problem with this team? The problem as a whole is NOT starting pitching. Getting Dan Haren now doesn’t help. It might make you win a FEW more games or lose some other games by fewer runs, but unless he can fix the offense, he doesn’t turn this team from a middling .500 team into a playoff team.
The only argument about Haren that I have heard and liked is the fact that his is not an expiring contract, so it could be more a big pick up that helps a little now, but also solidifies the rotation for the future— a time when hopefully the bats will wake up in the Spring, and stay hot in the Summer so that the Phillies will again have a chance to play in the Fall.
The problem with the team is that the margin between runs scored and runs allowed is not as favorable as it should be. There are two ways to solve this problem, not just one.
Help Wanted
Contending Team Seeks Starting Pitcher: Must have sub 2.00 ERA so as to allow team with anemic offense every opportunity in the world to win. Must throw mostly strikeouts to handle defensive alignment that grows weaker by the day and be very hearty, as the injury bug has been a biting. Hitting skills a plus. If interested please contact Reuben Amaro Jr., 1 Citizen’s Bank Park Way, Philadelphia PA…
I’d agree with you if the problem was they kept losing games by a 6-5 margin, but it’s not. They lose 4-3 or 3-1 or 2-0.
You can only lower the opponents RPG to a reasonable level. You cannot expect a pitcher to keep the opponent below 3 rpg in every outing. You can only realistically move that number down so low before your expectations are unrealistic.
If the Phils were losing games 10-8, I’d also say it would be dumb to try and upgrade the offense.
What is the solution for a 7-5 loss?
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Phils Starters:
Halladay: 2.33 ERA, 10W/7L
Hamels: 4.05 ERA, 6-7
Moyer: 4.13 ERA 9-7
Kendrick: 4.70 ERA 5-3
Blanton: 6.27 ERA 3-5
What do other pitchers in the NL with ERA’s of around 2.33 have as W/L records?
Wainwright: 2.24 12-5
Jiminez: 2.27 17-1
Hudson: 2.44 8-4
Gallardo 2.58 8-4
So Halladay has a .562 win percentage with his 2.33 ERA. The four guys around him in the league have at worst a 0.667 win percentage.
Halladay has been on the low end of run-support, and that happens, but it illustrates that trying to get another good pitcher doesn’t help get run support for him (or Halladay for that matter).
This, this, a thousand times this.
Bilzo, even with the offense struggling, they’re not going to score 1 run every game, which is what you’re implying. Take a look at this: I even used the current lineup and everyone’s current stats to give you the benefit of the doubt here (because I think a lot of guys are due for an uptick, plus we’re due to get healthier, but whatever), and we’re still going to average at least 4 runs per night. So please, stop exaggerating.
Okay…that lineup scores 3.89 rpg, which is on average a losing number.
No…they’re not going to score 1 rpg over and over and over. But Haren is also going to get a 5 or a 6 dropped on him every few starts.
The guys that are counted on to produce runs are either hurt or not producing. You’re trying to stop a sinking ship by getting a shiny new motor.
Look, I’m not saying we should definitely trade for Dan Haren, and I’m not ruling out a lesser deal for someone like Wigginton or Lopez. But I honestly don’t understand how you’re arguing against the idea that a hypothetical trade for Dan Haren wouldn’t be a massive upgrade for this team.
In all seriousness, what do you propose? What big bat out there should the Phillies trade for to jump start the offense? Bear in mind, there’s no obvious position to upgrade over the long haul (Polanco and Utley will both be back at some point).
I don’t propose getting a big bat. You’re not going to land anybody. I’m proposing bagging the season, unloading Werth now, getting Dom some PT, and hoping that maybe one of the pieces you get for Werth can contribute next year.
If you can get Haren for Valdez and Kendrick, but all means do it, but I’d imagine you’d have to give up good prospects for him, and I think that’s a dumb move for this season and next.
I also agree that getting bullpen help is silly. Bullpen guys go from sucky to awesome year to year. It’s a perennial crap shoot. There are elite guys and trash heap guys, but I think 90% of middle relief is indistinguishable from one another.
According to Charlie Manuel
You are half right. He feels that the team needs upgrades to both the starting pitching and the bullpen.
This is purely a feel thing with no stats to back it up, it’s more about mojo if you will. When the eagles went and got T.O. they had the largest training camp fan turnout in history, the team had a load of confidence, and they made it to the super bowl. I’m sure similar feelings would have been with this team had the kept Lee…
They are MLB professionals but they’re people too. Seeing Lee go with Halladay coming just reminded the players this is a business more than anything. Remember the texts between Rollins and Werth “wondering what the hell they were doing” by trading Lee. Keeping Lee builds an excitement not only with the players but with the city, region, and country as well as telling the players on this team we’re are absolutely going to win the World Series.
We say the injuries would be there whether or not Lee was here but I’m not so sure about all of them. Having a full season feeling the team is going for it, maybe they get through the injuries (sounds dumb but it’s like not wanting to miss a good time). I liken it to the Eagles in 05 or Mets in 09 where the teams had no mojo, were in the midst of terrible seasons that were no fun, and after a few months it seemed every regular player was hurt (Eagles backup 3 headed monster when McNabb, Westbrook, and T.O. were gone towards end of 05. Or when it seemed entire Mets staff was on the DL in 09). I believe all injuries were completely legitimate but maybe some of that gets hidden better if the team is in the midst of an exciting and fun season for the players.
Of course this time is frustrating but I’m just wondering if that made sense and anyone gets what I’m saying about even though they’re pros, it is a special time from preseason on through playoffs after making an obvious great move.
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 11:47 AM EDT reply actions
On one hand, I agree with you that bad times and bad feelings about a team (things going bad, etc) may affect one’s desire to work hard to stay on the field/ come back from an injury, but on the other hand— Rollins injured his calf twice when things were still going well, and there is nothing about Utley’s thumb injury that makes me think that he is using an injury as an excuse to not play. Ditto Ruiz’s concussion— the fact that he failed an objective neuro test last week, tells me that injury is real. As for Polanco— trying to play through with his elbow in bad shape may not be the best for the team either— when he tried to play through right after getting hit in the elbow, his batting average nosedived. I do not believe that any of the DL’ed regulars is not doing their best to get back, nor that they would be there if things were better.
Yea I agree, maybe I’m wishful in that with Cliff, Rollins warms up and stretches better so his calf doesn’t go on him and Utley slides into 2nd successfully (as in not f’in up his ligament) since for a split second he wasn’t thinking, “man I wish we kept Cliff Lee” and got distracted… and now I’m messing around
And to think, I was one of the few that explained/defended to all my family and friends why the Lee trade and getting Halladay was a great deal and how much I liked it
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the Halladay portion of the deal (most days, which is about all that can be said for my opinion of any pitcher…). I wish that I believed that having Cliff Lee would have changed the injuries, or the general negativity that is starting to permeate the clubhouse (ok… maybe he would have made that part better).
The irony with Rollins is that it was warming up and stretching that got him injured the first time. As for Utley— on one hand, I understand that it is probably a rare occurrence (tons of players slide head first into bases, and injured hands are probably rare), but I no longer look at head first sliding the same way— now the thought of it makes my stomach knot up.
I saw on sportscenter, players got on there hands and knees and held there heads they couldnt watch. I think he meant because the broadcast was just rough. The ump walked away like he couldn’t take it
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
“Chilling” as in it was really hard to watch and listen to, everyone was freaked out, and understandably so.
Very glad to hear the guy is expected to recover.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I think the video is probably a little too disturbing to link to— I know that is something that Ijust do not want to see.
I got nervous the first few times I watched our own David S. Cohen, reach out to snag that fly a few weeks back. Catching a foul ball would be cool, but falling 30+ feet would be decidedly uncool.
No...
They weren’t in Philly.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Perfect.
Just what I expected from you.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
What compelled you to come here and stir shit up anyways? I’m just curious. Are you really that bored?
by FuquaManuel on Jul 7, 2010 2:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One might ask what compels you to continue to reply, thus encouraging him to keep posting. Ignoring the original comment and he would have gone away
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
DON’T. FEED. THE TROLL.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jul 7, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
can we feed him his cat in the hat?
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That would make the cat awfully fat, and no one wants an awfully fat can in a hat, who’d want that?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps we can ask Mr. Howard or Pat the Bat, use something flat and make the cat go splat! Therefore that nat could then eat his cat
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, why don’t I just go eat some hay, make things out of clay, lay by the bay? I just may! What’d ya say?
(Whoops, wrong rhyme scheme.)
Absolutely classic.
For some reason my What’s Happening picture would not post
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Why can’t I resist lolcat pictures? They are just irresistible. They’re like Pringles…
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m genuinely curious as to what motivates people like that. I will confess to occasionally enjoying a touch of schadenfreude by reading the blogs of teams I dislike when things go poorly for them, but why waste time making an ass out of yourself in the comments? What’s the appeal?
I’ve always chocked it up to the same juvenile immaturity that involves name calling and fraternities.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure many a thesis is being written on that right now.
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Or is it theses? Either way a keyboard and screenname has allowed people to say terrible things (that one just now was nothing) that in person they wouldn’t even whisper
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I was motivated in this particular instance...
by this statement:
Texas broadcast
What happened? They mocked the guy, I presume?
Why would you presume that? Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying; it seemed to me that you were saying that you assumed that a crowd in Texas would make fun of a guy falling from the upper deck.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
It had nothing to do with Texas and more to do with human nature.
It looks as if you have pwned yourself here, by making an unfounded assumption about what a northerner must think about Texans and relying on that assumption as your basis for attacking said northerner for harboring such thoughts. I believe the term for this is “projection”.
Now let me ask you something. On your user page, you describe yourself with the words “Braves Fan. Vols Fan. Mom. Glory to God.” Do you really think it brings glory to God for you to go around to other team’s blogs insulting the commenters and their hometowns? Don’t you think that does precisely the opposite? Keep in mind that self-defense is not an excuse if you are a Christian.
You make an excellent point.
And thank you for pointing that out.
The only thing I would say in my defense is that I don’t believe in this particular instance my sin was insulting anyone, but instead letting my anger cause me to post the first retort that came to mind without thinking it through.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
It seems that you came here to start trouble. You are nothing like that nice christian boy on chopped last night
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what you are speaking of...
but I hope I am very unlike any boy you know.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Though you ar like many I know who claim to be christian but only when it suits them to behave in a christian manner.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Not before I get to post this:
I was hoping to find a more stylized Mantle-like Jesus, but this was the best I could do.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
the kid with the glove? He looks a little short
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I simply saying...
I am female, so not a boy.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I guess you want to ignore the part...
where I admitted to being wrong.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I didn’t, and we appreciate that.
Lesson learned: no use trolling on another team’s blog in the midst of a particularly testy series. Amirite?
You
are correct.
Sorry.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
At some point, doesnt trading Jayson Werth for the ‘future’ of the franchise matter more than if Brown is brought up a couple months early?
How far behind do the phillies need to be around the last week of July that they should be ‘sellers’ instead of buyers?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:38 PM EDT reply actions
Trading Werth and bailing on the season are not mutually exclusive. The 2004 Red Sox “sold” Nomar Garciaparra.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
That’s a valid point, if Theo Epstein is your GM and you have the roster of the 2004 Red Sox around you and aren’t suffering from major injuries to key players.
Would you trust Mr Amaro Jr to make a trade of Werth that somehow kept the phillies in contention without bringing up Domonic Brown? This presumes that Ibanez gets out of his funk at some point I guess?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Oddly, they didn’t even get much back for him. Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz. It obviously didn’t hurt them since they won the World Series, but I would think they would have been as good a team either way. But maybe I’m forgetting something.
Didn’t they have phenomenal pitching from both starters and bullpen that year? Plus, wasn’t Nomar kind of done at that point, more a fan favorite than actually a solid contributor?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He was injured in April and May, then came back on June 9 and posted a 118 OPS+ in 38 games, playing more or less everyday, until he was traded on July 28.
If I recall correctly, the move was all “run prevention” before that became a buzzword. Nomar’s injuries had wrecked him to the point where he was a poor fielder (-12 /-, -15.8 UZR/150); Mientkiewicz (4 /-, 3.0 UZR/150) and even Cabrera (8 +/-, -5.5 UZR/150) represented substantial defensive upgrades.
Then the story was that Manny slept with Cabrera’s wife, and they couldn’t afford to resign him for obvious clubhouse reasons — or at least, that’s the urban legend up in these parts.
Stanton has struck out 36 times in his first 93 major league plate appearances. He’s hitting .209/.258/.326.
So next time you hear some nitwit like Ricky Bottalico ask why we can’t do what all the other teams are doing, think of that.
This isn’t to say the same exact thing would happen to Brown. Every prospect is unique. Brown isn’t Stanton, Brown isn’t Heyward, and Heyward isn’t Stanton. One has to look at the details. The mark of an idiot is someone who makes blanket statements that we should do with Brown what all the other teams are doing with their prospects, without displaying any awareness of any of the prospects’ specific circumstances.
That said, I agree with everything. I actually tweeted as much yesterday (at least, the bit about Stanton).
Trade Werth and Promote Brown.
If we’re going to watch this team spiral downward in the NL East rankings the rest of this season, and probably miss the playoffs, why not at least give some of the younger talent an opportunity to get some MLB experience?
How much earlier would he be eligible for arbitration if brought up needlessly this year?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
How long would he have to continue to dominate AAA before one was comfortable with him being ready in terms of his development (Werth Ibanez play irrelevant)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
A month or two. Enough so you know it isn’t just a hot streak. Plus, one would like to keep an eye on his K rates, to see if he’s showing improvement, and work with him on that. That’s what the Marlins should have done (and stupidly failed to do) with Mike Stanton, who is now struggling bigtime in the majors for no good reason. Maybe Stanton will turn out OK, but they’re taking a really dumb, unnecessary risk with him.
Brown’s defense could also use work.
It must be frustrating to be a Marlins fan. They’re so good at developing talent until the cusp of readiness, at which point they become very adept at blowing it.
Not a Marlins fan, but I’m a booster for their former Double-A club and I’ve met Maybin, Coughlin, Volstad, etc. and seen them play dozens of times. While as a Phillies fan, I would prefer the Marlins suck, as a fan of the individual players, I want to see the ones I think are good, talented guys (Maybin) do well and it’s frustrating when they do stupid crap like bringing Maybin up after half of an injury filled season in Double A.
It’s pretty much on the other side of the state. Kind of like Philly to Pittsburgh, it would be a 4 hour drive for me.
I’m about 2 hours from Greensboro. I want to try to get over there to see the Blue Claws, but it was too damned hot the last time they came through.
“it was too damned hot the last time they came through.”
That was just Jon Singleton.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Stanton has struck out 36 times in his first 93 major league plate appearances. He’s hitting .209/.258/.326.
So next time you hear some nitwit like Ricky Bottalico ask why we can’t do what all the other teams are doing, think of that.
This isn’t to say the same exact thing would happen to Brown. Every prospect is unique. Brown isn’t Stanton, Brown isn’t Heyward, and Heyward isn’t Stanton. One has to look at the details. The mark of an idiot is someone who makes blanket statements that we should do with Brown what all the other teams are doing with their prospects, without displaying any awareness of any of the prospects’ specific circumstances.
If we’re going to watch this team spiral downward in the NL East rankings the rest of this season and probably miss the playoffs, why not at least waste our time making stupid fucking arguments over and over and over again.
by FuquaManuel on Jul 7, 2010 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remain convinced that you haven’t read this. If you do, and you have any rational argument against any of the points made within, then by all means, let’s debate it.
Who should go?
With Ryan Madson about to return to the active roster, which member of the bullpen should be demoted to open up a roster spot?
Mike Zagurski makes the most sense?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Chunk? Hahahahahaha. I had forgotten that nickname for him (prolly b/c he’s been away for so long).
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
It’s funny that someone that fat can be considered a professional athlete as well (unless of course you are of the Kruk School)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 7, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Or the Prince Fielder school. Earlier this year, I saw a highlight where he was either (1) running out a triple or (2) scoring from 1st on a double, and his entire body looked…somewhat…jiggly. In a way that made me uncomfortable.
Here’s a spamalicious site with some promising All Fat MLB players:
Also, see:
Puckett, Kirby and
Gwynn, Tony
Larry Parrish? Bob Horner? LaMarr Hoyt (toward the end, he was biggish, as I recall). Sid Fernandez?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ll just have to miss out, then. It was a pop-up extravaganza. Just giving warning to those who might click through the link.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Jul 7, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Zagurski or Sean Astin? Sean Astin is chubby, but then his mother struggled with weight her entire career, too. Their family was pretty messed up, if you’ve ever read her life story.
I digress. Why are there so many fat pitchers?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
last night we has shabby i believe, sham pitching with a flabby appearance
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 7, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant that Sean Astin grew up to be fatter than Jeff Cohen.
Oddly, Mackenzie Astin is still skinny.
Got his father’s body type, I assume. Happened to my husband and his brother. His brother got his Dad’s body-builder physique and my husband…well, he makes a lot of money. LOL.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Hey, so as it turns out, they’re only half-brothers. Sean Astin’s father was Patty Duke’s second husband (they were only married for 13 days). After Sean was born, he was adopted by John Astin, who was her third husband. John Astin was Mackenzie Astin’s biological father.
Boy, this really escalated quickly
I mean, it really got out of hand fast!
http://www.thegoodphight.com
"That's more hits than you got last night!"
Per Matt Gelb: Charlie Manuel said that he was in seven meetings today to which a reporter replied: “Seven meetings! That’s more hits than you had last night.”
Out of the mouths of reporters.
I’m sure he loved that—Cholly, I mean.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
His reaction was not included, but I thought we could all use a laugh.
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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