Some Phillies Links for You, July 8, 2010: Shane Speaks, Buyers or Sellers?
by WholeCamels on Jul 8, 2010 8:03 AM EDT
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PrintFans frustrate Victorino, seeking support
Shane Victorino received criticism from fans during Wednesday's 7-5 loss to the Atlanta Braves at Citizens Bank Park and it bothered him enough that he brought it up in the clubhouse afterward.
I'm sure this will play great in Northeast Philadelphia.
Sometimes We Boo - Chicks Dig The Long Ball
Wherein the Philosophy of Booing is discussed.
Phils could use help — like Cliff Lee
Would things be that much different with Lee? Hard to say. He missed the first three weeks of the season after a spring-training injury. If you take his 13 starts for Seattle and match them up with the Phillies' results on the same dates, you find nine games that probably would have had the same result. If you could magically transplant Lee's performance into the other four games, three Phillies losses would become wins and one win - by the same logic - would have been a loss. So that's a net gain of two wins, which means the Phillies would still be in third place.
Wow, this is... needlessly complicated!
Phillies Notes: Polanco in a hurry to return to action
Sounds like Brad Lidge!
The Phillies Scoop: Trade games to Charlie: Let’s play two
Ooh, do we get to hear "Getting Ryan Madson back is almost as good as a deadline deal!" this season? Shades of Wade.
McCaffery: Buy or sell? Amaro splits the difference
So many flimsy premises... so short an article...
Minor-league all-star game is a major event for McCarthy
What a thrill for all of us!
Triple-A All-Star Game: Lehigh Valley IronPigs kick off All-Star Week with Pigapalooza fan festival
The "Pigapalooza" subhead directly over the picture of Fat Howard is sublime.
Sam Donnellon: No panic yet from Phillies, but should there be?
What good would "panicking" do at this point? It's not like they have a lot of movable pieces on the roster.
PhillyBurbs.com: Manuel won't rush Brown to majors
I'm glad Uncle Charlie has some sense.
Reading Phillies win fifth straight
New Reading Phillie Harold Garcia with an RBI single.
Flicker of hope for a fallen Phillies star
Wait, Eric Bruntlett is a "star"?
For the first time all year, a team outside the NL East wins a series at Citi Field. Reds win, 3-1. - Red Reporter
And the red-hot Reds head to Citizens Bank Park for a four gamer this weekend. This doesn't look very good.
Washington Nationals' Adam Dunn Hits 3 HR's, Nats Hold On For 7-6 Win Over San Diego Padres. - Federal Baseball
I still wish they'd signed Adam Dunn instead of Raul Ibanez...
Josh Johnson - Ace - True Blue LA
Josh Johnson, Florida Marlins, defeat Los Angeles Dodgers, 4-0. The best pitcher in the National League, fellas.
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pretty fair and shockingly astute commentary from Vic.
1) acknowledged they’re sucking
2) reminds fans this is kinda new
3) asks for more support
4) says don’t give up yet.
On one hand, I agree with Victorino tha fans need to have some patience, particularly considering this team’s past performance. Yet it is exactly that past performance that has maybe spoiled us— for the past three years the Phillies have been a winning team, so to see them losing with increasing frequency is a disappointing event— one that upsets us and makes us wonder if they are back to being the team they were before.
Welcome back to the reality of being a Philly team— for better or for worse around here, it is play well get cheered, play poorly get booed… And for better or for worse, the memories are pretty short.
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 9:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Shane is right, this city is brutal, especially brutal when a team under performs. Look, I love this team like everyone else. I want them to win like everyone else. I am disappointed that this team is in 3rd place and sitting 6 games behind the Braves…but 1/3 of the starting line up on any given night is from guys who don’t deserve to be in the majors. Our bullpen is a mess, and sadly was a mess last year and RAJ didn’t do much to fix it. Conteras was a great signing…Baez, not so much, they basically cancel each other out. Madson being out doesn’t help. Last year so many people laughed at the Met’s for being as bad as they were, no one wanted to hear the injury excuse and now…this year, it’s about the only thing I have to grasp on to. Hopefully this team can stay within striking distance and once they get Ruiz, Polly and Madson back they can make a push. If not, if this season is hopeless, then trade Werth for some prospects or whatever and look to next year.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
What exactly should he have done with the bullpen? It’s well established that middle relievers are a crapshoot and there isn’t very much you can do to guarantee that your bullpen will be good. Amaro can be certainly criticized for wasting money on Baez, but if he had gone out and signed a bunch of other relievers instead, that wouldn’t have been good either.
Agreed in general, though I will say one thing: if they had gone out and nabbed a couple of low-risk, high-reward pitchers with the money they spent on Baez, that would’ve been a much better idea. There’s as much “miss” in here as “hit,” but I advocated looking into guys like Joaquin Benoit and Ron Mahay in the offseason, who are making less combined than Baez this year. (Just be sure to ignore the part about Brendan Donnelly; for that, I plead temporary insanity.)
Josh Johnson, Florida Marlins, defeat Los Angeles Dodgers, 4-0. The best pitcher in the National League, fellas.
Damnit, WC, now you’re just baiting.
I’m not sure, since LondonPhillie’s the one that has him in the Fantasy League. Baiting would be if you started boasting about your flier on Strasburg paying off.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Nah, nothing, just making me try to construct an argument that Halladay’s still better than Johnson — for pride’s sake. ;)
If I did, it would essentially go something like this…
“They’re both awesome pitchers: Johnson’s xFIP is 3.08, Halladay’s is 3.02. But what makes Halladay the best pitcher in the National League — nay, in baseball — is Doc’s efficiency. Johnson has thrown 122 innings over 18 starts, good for 6th in baseball. Halladay? He merely leads the league in innings with 139, over the same number of starts. That means that, on average, we’ve seen Doc get at least 2 outs in the 8th inning before departing every fifth day. Quality plus quantity, folks: Roy Halladay is a pitching machine.”
Johnson, Halladay, Strasburg, Jiminez… Lots of good NL pitching this year. Not to slight Josh Johnson who is definitely in the argument, but “the best” might be hard to support.
In support of WL’s supposition — and out of context with little analytical heft — Johnson’s ERA+ is tops in the bunch, at 246. The next closest is Jimenez, at 199. Not to say that other factors don’t play into it (I find PF’s analysis pretty compelling), but that’s a pretty unbelievable number that Johnson’s sporting.
Just out of curiosity: I have read a lot recently (both before his last three starts, and even more so now) that some of Ubaldo’s success came from a combination of being very good and incredibly lucky— how much of Johnson’s success is that he is lucky, and how much of it is that he is just that good?
Well, I’ll take a shot at answering, though you’ll have to forgive my hatchetwork understanding of sabermetrics. FIP and xFIP give a good idea of what a pitcher’s ERA would be without the benefit of their fielders (hence, (F)ielding (I)ndependent (P)itching), and we all know about the BABIP fairy. So, taking a look at Ubaldo’s, Johnson’s, and Halladay’s numbers, we can come to a couple conclusions. Ubaldo has the lowest BABIP and, perhaps as a result, the biggest difference between his ERA and FIP. Halladay sports the highest BABIP by far, but Johnson still beats him in FIP.
Here’s where my understanding becomes a bit vague, as xFIP has Halladay edging Johnson, with Ubaldo a distant third; to be honest, I don’t understand the differences between FIP and xFIP enough to comment on that. Suffice it to say, based on the numbers, Johnson hasn’t been unreasonably lucky, and certainly not so lucky as Ubaldo, and Halladay has been the unluckiest of the three.
xFIP essentially gets rid of bad luck or good luck on home runs for cases where it may be affected by home park, etc.
See: Hamels, broken-bat HR, 2009 for instance
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I believe xFIP fixes everyone’s HR/FB at a certain uniform number (12% or so), on the assumption that any deviation from that figure is explained by luck or ballpark.
All good stuff throughout this line of responses.
One thing to add: xFIP and SIERA are, by far, the best predictors of future success. FIP and ERA+ are better narrative statistics, i.e. they tell us how well a pitcher has actually pitched this year (even if luck is included to a decent extent, as in FIP, or a pretty substantial extent, as in ERA+). So on the heels of a conversation that TP and I were having the other day, I think FIP and ERA+ are perfectly fine things to use in determining things like Cy Young Awards or All Star nods, but the other two are far better to use in discussions of, “Well, who’s actually better?”
He’s been no where near as lucky as Ubaldo (not to take anything away from a guy with 6 pitches, all pretty top shelf).
From Fangraphs:
Rank Pitcher ERA FIP xFIP SIERA
1 Josh Johnson 1.83 2.47 3.16 2.99
2 Ubaldo Jimenez 1.83 3.07 3.68 3.49
FIP and xFIP essentially take luck of the equation. I’m sure you can search for Sierra on here and get a good explanation, as I see to recall it is Matt Schwartz’s baby.
My faith is nearly gone but I think Victorino is a little right.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
I agree… however, the phans (and even my) recent behavior reminds me of an adage that my mother used to say: “If you want the praise for doing well, you have to be willing to take the criticism for doing poorly”.
Right now, the team is playing poorly— there is no two ways about it. I wish that there were. While I hope that they are able to right the ship in time, I am beginning to seriously question their ability to do so— present badditude is beginning to take away my ability to see the great team that they were from 2007-2009. I will cheer again… when there is something to cheer for— just as last night I cheered Victorino’s homer (even though he had went 0-3 before it). And I will stay around and wait for this team to be successful again… even if that means waiting another 28 or more years. But I reserve the right to boo poor performance just as passionately as I cheer great performance.
He is right, but this isn’t his first year playing in this city. It always amazes me when people are shocked when the phans turn on them.
My personal feelings are that the Phillies players (emphasis on players) get largely a free ride from me for all they’ve done for the past three years. This has been the best time to be a Phillies fan in my 38 years—yes, even better than the late 70’s, early 80’s years—and so after 3 division titles, 2 pennants and 1 WS title, I think they deserve some slack. With all the injuries mounting and the parity that exists in the league, they were due a down year. This isn’t to say that I want to suffer mediocrity and that the team shouldn’t be trying to win, however; it’s just that you can’t demand to win the WS every year. You can expect it, desire it—but demanding it just makes you unrealistic and petulant. A Yankees fan.
I just want to see some good baseball and enjoy Roy every 5th day. Anything else is gravy.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
What no one has mentioned yet, is that a lot of the people doing the booing, were not at the stadium 4 years ago…the people selling out CBP every night, a lot of them don’t know or understand losing, they have been a fan for a few years and are used to the good times. They don’t factor in injuries, age, etc. All the things we look at. They don’t get it. And they never will, they will just disappear when things really get bad.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
They are the frontrunners of which Shane and Jimmy speak. Thing is, it happens to every team that has a sustained run of success. The bandwagoners hop on to enjoy the good times and don’t want to be there for the fallout/bad times. Fairweather friends who want to drink your beer, but don’t want to help you move your sh*t. I bet they didn’t suffer through Steve Jeltz. And for that I say to them, “You don’t know how good you have it, you whiny bitches.”
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I know who they are talking about, obviously yes its the front runners, but they hear boos, they can’t isolate who is booing, so to them, it’s everyone. It’s not the front running fans are coming down on them, it’s the fans, which is all of us. That’s where I take issue. Not with what J-Roll and Shane are saying but with the fairweather f*cks that are showing up and acting a fool.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Yeah, but they’re just NFL fans trying to live in the MLB world. It’s too difficult a transition for those emotional infants to make.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
What do you mean? (Converted NFL fan)
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t mean all NFL fans, but many have a tough time trying to transition from 16 (or is it 17, now, I can’t keep up) games where every game matters to 162 game up and down season. The implement an NFL fan mentality to MLB and not only is it unrealistic, it’s unhealthy. That kind of roller coaster ride will put you on blood pressure meds.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I have definitely seen that with me the closer I follow baseball.. it is sometimes hard to step back and remember that it is a long season… although it is still something of a challenge.
That being said, is it still my former ll my inner football fan who is freaking out about the current stretch of awful… or is it reasonable from a baseball sense, too.
The only reason I say it isn’t reasonable is because there’s very little that this team can do right now to right the ship with all the injuries and lack of minor league depth. And we can hope the players start playing up to their abilities, they heal up some and lady luck starts returning our phone calls in the meantime.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Good point. I’ve been thinking of writing an article about this but haven’t had the time. But basically, as we discussed in the “golden ages” thread a while back, every team has down years. Even the Yankees, special case as they are, missed the playoffs a couple of years ago. It’s important to maintain perspective.
I see no reason to give up on the season, but even if we were to assume for the sake of argument the season was definitively lost, that would still be no reason to (a) advocate stupid moves that could hurt us down the road, or (b) turn on the players and start booing them. In fact, one of the main things that distinguishes teams who recover from blips from teams who lose their golden ages is the fact that the former avoid making dumb panic moves that are designed to sacrifice everything on the altar of the season at hand. A good case study is the 2006 Red Sox, who missed the playoffs with an 86-76 record – a record that was, if anything, inflated, as they were actually outscored by their opposition that year. What they did in response was: nothing. They made no deadline deals. They brought no prospects up to the majors ahead of schedule. And even in the offseason, they didn’t do much. They signed J.D. Drew and Daisuke, but Drew played pretty poorly in ‘07 while Daisuke was only OK. What really brought them back were: (1) one of their better prospects, Dustin Pedroia, coming up to the majors at the time he was supposed to come up, which was the following April, and (2) simple regression – their players who’d had unusually bad years in ’06 went back to norrmal in ’07. And they won the World Series.
Panic is for chumps.
Generally, it’s good policy to do what the Red Sox do, at least over the past eight years.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Having a great GM helps.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
And I wasn’t responding to your point, I was responding to someone elses comment.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Then perhaps you should reply to the poisonous tree post that I replied to. EIther Whole Camels or EREX21 as those are the comments that led to my reply.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
Of course, if the Phils fall further out of contention over the next few weeks, then there’s one move to be made that isn’t a panic move: dangling Werth to see what he’d garner in a trade. But a panic call up of Brown or something else stupid (I don’t know; say, a trade of Hamels or something) would be, well, stupid. And panicky. That circular enough logic for anyone?
I hardly think we’re at the season being definitively lost point yet though, so the Werth thing remains a hypothetical.
I agree— I hope that this organization is smart enough to realize that this is a good team having a bad year, not something that needs to be blown up. I think some of this patience may be forced on them by contracts that are going to make many of the players involved nearly untradeable… but that is a good thing, as it prevents the panic moves that would be bad for this organization. That being said, an attempt at trading Werth at the deadline would not surprise me if the team is out or nearly out of contention, as he likely will not be back next year, and it makes sense for the team to see what pieces (that will be around next year either in the minors or majors) they can get for him.
Although getting an upgrade from Castro wouldn’t be a panicky move. RAJ just needs to bit the bullet on that one and move on.
Agreed, although the one thing I worry about is the cost: other teams know we’re desperate for infield help right now, which drives up the price. Trading Anthony Gose for Jose Lopez, for instance, would be a terrible idea; the marginal value Lopez provides above Dobbs/Valdez just doesn’t justify the prospect cost.
After looking a some of the other infield choices, I agree— I did not see one that I liked enough to give up prospects for.
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
After looking a some of the other infield choices, I agree— I did not see one that I liked enough to give up prospects for.
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was hoping for one of those runs for good 5 years. I am not saying I think they are done but If they don’t make postseason I won’t be really disappointed because of the last 3 years. I do think when you get mass fans together they do sometimes forget what you had done ( not decades ago ) recent and it becomes what have you done for me lately. Because we waited so long me my whole life for that championship that I think people should wait till you know it is over to really boo. I didn’t see him pull hanley ramirez out or a bj upton if he does that in the field with his shitty batting than I will BOO.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Jul 8, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus when you’re dehydrated from sitting in 100 degree heat watching you uncle throw ‘fast’ balls watching your team suck it up, one may be inclined to boo
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It is always 100 in florida go see a phillies marlins game a 1:30 in Miami it is murderous
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Jul 8, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant going
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Jul 8, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah aside from it being the rainy season in a tropical climate they real did think things thru with outdoor ballpark
I thought the outdoor ballpark was one of those things that happened of necessity— they needed a place to play, their stadium was delayed, and so they got stuck, for better, for worse, or for biscuits with what is now called Sun Life Stadium?
It should never have gotten to that point. Since the dome stadiums have been around for sometime, MLB needs to stipulate that one of the conditions for acquiring a team is that it must play in an enivronment condusive to the game. It’s a speed/technical sport that is played best in a warm, dry conditions slightly above or below the sea level. Obviously make allowances for seasonal change, climate and altitude differences within reasonable parameters. Everytime we’ve have played in Florida our rotation gets totally screwed up because the inevitable rain delay burns a starter.
Eric Bruntlett was always a star
Aren’t there stars that like, all they do is suck in space debris rip people apart and ruin everything? Wait that’s a “black hole.”
http://thatballsouttahere.com
Stop yelling at me so that I can yell at you!
Anyone see the B.S that is going around the internet/on the radio about Werth having an affair with Utley’s wife?
It’s absolutely ridiculous the kind of crap that makes it into mainstream media.
Supposedly…that is the sole reason this team is struggling.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Well then feel free to delete my comment. I figured it was going to come up anyway.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
No, it’s not that at all, I just didn’t want to provide any links, etc.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Understandable. I wasn’t trying to cause any issue or anything, I think it’s total B.S, I was just curious as to who else had heard it.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’d guess Angelo since he is pretty pervy
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Gonzalez will probably pick it up, except he’ll phrase it like “Even though there’s no evidence to back this up, isn’t it a story that this is being discussed?”
Think Vai will have a religious aneurysm? It seems like that don’t like each other anyway
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I read it on a website, not from either of those two guys, but a few people have said they heard it on the radio. I personally did not.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I first heard it on a couple message boards, as far as I know that’s the “source.”
http://www.thegoodphight.com
People posting online searching for a source become… a source
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen a what if trade suggestion on a talk radio show become a legitimate rumor on internet message boards in under 30 minutes.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes—see: Flyers, Philadelphia.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Yeah, don’t mess with my Scotty. I was pissed.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
There was also one about Delonte West sleeping with Lebron’s mom.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Man, there are enough reasons to pick on Delonte West without making them up.
Then again, today TMZ reports that Lebron and Momma being sued for supposedly messing with a paternity test.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how dirty respectable national anchors on nbc abc and cbs felt citing TMZ during the Tiger scandal. Imagine Cronkite, another mistress reporting today, per TMZ
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea I’m only 24 so never saw him but I got the gist from Apollo 13
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
What respectable national anchors are left? There’s no honor in news any more. If it were respectable and honorable why would those networks cover the affairs of a professional athlete when much more relevant things matter.
TMZ is what it is, is proud of what it is and doesn’t pretend to be anything else. ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX they all pretend to still be news organizations, but mostly they’ll just report what they think will garner them the most eyeballs. Or do you think nancy grace and joy behar are national pundits worthy of attention?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s really sad when the best news analysis on TV seems to come from Comedy Central (The Daily Show).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Between him and Colbert, you hot about 60% of the news programming I watch.
by dannijd on Jul 8, 2010 2:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
When you say idiot are you speaking about a specific writer? I saw it on one site but I can’t say I frequent it much so I have no idea what the sites history is like.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Well, it is the perfect explanation— it mixes the personal and the professional seamlessly, and is life imitating the drama that we all watch on tv on nights when there is no sports. And in case you can not tell from the magazines that sell so well at the newsstand— sex sells.. and tabloid rumors are a lot more entertaining than the drab realities of life during a slump.
Sadly you are right…it’s pathetic what is deemed “important” by so many people…I saw that either Jesse James mistress or one of Tiger’s many mistresses are going to be having a Mistress Reality tv show…
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
What sells even more is when the stars fall. People love to see the rich and famous who seemingly have it all fall on their face. It makes them feel better about their pathetic existence.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Agreed.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
In it’s most disgusting form.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Well I can’t wait for Jayson Werth’s one hour ESPN special this winter for his “DECISION”
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Though he does actually have a ring last time I checked…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
One week of BREAKING NEWS lead-up every 30 minutes on beard growth.
I wrote that as a joke then started thinking about it. If he was close to the ‘global icon’ Lebron is, and had a sweet beard but was thinking of going to the Yankees, they seriously would follow his facial hair considering the clean cut Yankee rules
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Jul 8, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN might as well just start airing telenovelas. That network is a parody of itself.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Big sporting events have been about the STORYLINES for a number of years now. The games themselves are secondary.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
What do you think happens when Derek Jeter announces it’s going to be his last season (and he will do it that way so he can have his victory tour, is there any doubt of that)
I expect open weeping on the air from various ESPN personalities and at least one hourly show a week during the entire season honoring our lord and master Derek Jeter.
A special 90 minute tribute will be done during the all star game and the yankees will be ‘byed’ into the world series because everyone wants to see jeter go out on top
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth that we in Philly will be able to hear from New York… that being said, at least it is not A-Fraud…
True, Rodriguez is the better player and is willing to switch positions to the benefit of his team
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Who says A-Rod is the better player— are there statistics to back that up? I do not like how he plays the game… while it may be somewhat reporting and how they both come off to the media and to others, Jeter seems to be regarded as one of the ones that plays the game the right way, while A-Rod seems to not care about playing the game right or even fairly.
I’m not as statistically oriented as others here – but this quick comparison seems to lend credence
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=RODRIGUEZ19750727A
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=JETER19740626A
When they both played short stop it always seemed to me that Rodriguez was considered the best in the game at the time
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
A-Rod does come off as a prick…but he is definitely the better regular season player, that is not arguable. The numbers support that. However, in the playoffs, Jeter is one of the best there is.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
The numbers support that. However, in the playoffs, Jeter is one of the best there is.
Of course he’s had a lot more appearances (and over rated highlights) to become such.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The number of appearances has nothing to do with it. When he is in the playoffs he always performs. The same could not be said for A-Rod until this past year.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
However let’s not forget, A-Rod is an admitted roid user…Jeter, never been linked to the stuff.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’ve always found Jeter to rub me the wrong way, as a phony, his series of useless sleeping partners may have fostered that. Seems to me like his entire persona is an act
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 8, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I could personally careless what he does in his personal life, if he wants to sleep around, he is a single guy, more power to him.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Agreed… particularly since it seems to be serial partners— I do not like cheating in marriage, but could care less about people who love and leave… that is their decision, and so long as they do not try to play the family values card (or leave behind a trail of children they do not support in their wake), I really do not give a rat’s patoot.
And maybe that is what it is. I don’t know. Jayson Stark wrote an article at the beginning of the season about the “it” factor that some baseball players have… and two of the players that he mentioned were Jeter and Utley. Recently, Halladay said the same thing, calling Utley the Derek Jeter of the National League. It makes me wonder if Jeter’s influence on that team is not about more than the numbers… while A-Rod’s is all about the numbers, as there is little about the human that redeems him.
If I wanted to write a parody of a Sam Donnellon column, I would probably title it “No panic yet from [Team], but should there be?” My parody would contain the lines, “Is it irresponsible to panic? It is irresponsible not to!”
He might as well have titled it “Phillies don’t want to do anything impulsive and foolish, but should they?”
He’s an idiot and whenever he’s on DNL, I turn it off. When it’s Donnellon AND Smallwood? I don’t even want to be in the same zip code.
I think the worst DNL panel ever would be Donnellon, Smallwood and Gonzalez.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I’ve come to the conclusion that alot of what gets written about the Phillies is done by writers who still, after 3 years haven’t transitioned from a football mindset to a baseball one. And quite a few are just not very good journalists but I think that’s an endangered species anyway.
I just think they toe the Philadelphia lowest common denominator fan party line.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I would just like to add
That there is just nothing likeable about this Braves team. Seeing Bobby Cox go out on a high note…just…well, I’d rather see the Mets win. Oh, and I hope you get a screaming case of crotch rot, Dye-az.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
One likeable thing
With so many of their key pieces (Bobby Cox, Chipper Jones, Billy Wagner) all saying (or practically) that it is their last hurrah, there is little chance of them being dynastic… I am afraid of what a taste of success would do to the Mets.
Braves' top prospects
Arodys Vizcaino (RHP) – Age 19
2.34 ERA, 66 K, 9 BB, 69.1 IP in Low A. Just promoted to High-A.
Julio Teheran (RHP) – Age 19
1.14 ERA, 45 K, 10 BB, 39.1 IP in Low A
2.92 ERA, 58 K, 12 BB, 49.1 IP in High-A
Randall Delgado (RHP) – Age 20
2.82 ERA, 108 K, 26 BB, 105.1 IP in High-A
Mike Minor (LHP) – Age 22
4.03 ERA, 109 K, 34 BB, 87.0 IP in AA. Just promoted to AAA.
Craig Kimbrel (RHP) – Age 22
0.90 ERA, 44 K, 12 BB, 30.0 IP in AAA (relief pitcher)
Freddie Freeman (1B) – Age 20
.283/.342/.484, 10 HR, 24 BB, 47 K, 279 AB in AAA
I can’t believe Captain Marvel Jr. is playing for the Braves. We should’ve traded for Black Adam when we had the chance.
Their pitching depth is disgusting.
My greatest hope is that payroll is ultimately going to hamstring them from becoming the juggernaut they might (and probably should) become. This is the same team that salary dumped a Cy Young candidate* in the offseason — let’s hope that trend continues.
*Side note: how scary good would this Braves team be with Vazquez right now? Hanson/Vazquez/Hudson/Lowe/Jurrjens, with Medlen and Minor on hand as extra starters? That’d be legitimately terrifying.
Braves have a lot more upside than the Mets. I don’t believe anyone can really have a true dynasty anymore because league parity/what-have-you, but I’ve been worried about them for years now. Meh.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Yeah I was commenting more on the Met’s tasting success.
The Braves farm system scares me, a lot.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Me too… what is the historic success rate for teams with really good farms— how close to a hundred percent is it that Atlanta is going to have another era like theyu did for all of thos years before they got unseated? I really do not want to believe that it is going to be another decade plus of Atlanta constantly winning.
We’re living in a different world than we were then. The Braves are now owned by a corporation and not Ted Turner. Their farm system is sick but they aren’t likely to take on the kind of payroll that the Mets or even Phillies have any time soon IMO. As such, trades will be necessary. Then there’s development of said farm system. Marlins have had an awesome one forever, but seem to fail quite a bit when bringing guys up. You never know. TINSTAPP and all that hooha.
So, I think we’ll be looking at a long run of success, yes, but with parity, injuries, trades, etc.—nothing like the 14 years of hell endured in the past. The rest of the division is still good and some are getting better. Lots more competish.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Ok… do you think that the Phillies will be able to continue to compete in this division, or do you think that the last three years were a great time to be a Phillies fan, but that soon we will be fading back into the dark ages, waiting another 15 years or so to get our chance?
Yes, for at least another few years. No. There’s a blueprint now. The Phillies as an org don’t seem to be relying on the old addage of just be competitive and hope you catch lightning in a bottle. They may not always make all the right moves, but I respect RAJ’s attempt to restock the farm system for Lee even if the best deal wasn’t made as a result. I respect that they are waiting to bring up Brown. It’s the right thing to do.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Here is something you should know about prospect watching. From a fangraphs article -
Victor Wang has done some tremendous research about prospects and their value. In determining their value he had to find the rate of which players bust in each category he divided them into. This is a healthy dose of realism to keep in mind when we’re looking at the any one club’s farm system.
* 10% of top 10 hitting prospects bust.
* 31% of top 10 pitching prospects bust.
* 21% of top 11-25 hitting prospects bust.
* 32% of top 11-25 pitching prospects bust.
* 35% of top 26-50 hitting prospects bust.
* 33% of top 26-50 pitching prospects bust.
* 45% of top 51-75 hitting prospects bust.
* 39% of top 51-75 pitching prospects bust.
* 43% of top 76-100 hitting prospects bust.
* 43% of top 76-100 pitching prospects bust.
* 59% of ‘B grade’ hitting prospects bust.
* 52% of ‘B grade’ pitching prospects bust.
* 83% of ‘C grade’ hitting prospects bust.
* Around 75% of all ‘C grade’ pitching prospects bust.
By busts he means adds value to their team.
I have a good friend who’s a Mets fan — I know, I know — but I sent him an email last night referencing something he said to me last year. He basically said, “With the ascension of the Phillies and Mets rivalry, we’re forgetting how much we hate the Braves. I mean, we grew up hating the Braves. They can’t be allowed to escape our wrath.”
He was a year late in his prediction, but it’s coming to full fruition. I genuinely like Heyward, and I don’t mind McCann for whatever reason, but I absolutely loathe the rest of that team. Cox, Larry, Diaz, all of the interchangeable Latino position players… there’s just nothing likable about any of them.
That sounds like a call to arms, an alliance of opposites not seen since the United States and the Soviet Union. In that case, comrades!
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on Jul 8, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Jesse Biddle...
…got lit up today in his third pro appearance (3.1 IP, 9 H, 6 R, 3 BB, 3 K). Obviously no conclusions to be drawn, but it’ll be interesting to see how he bounces back.
lol @ Northeast Philadelphia comment because it’s where I’m from
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 8, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
I take it you’ve never driven in Boston, then?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
have you ever been at Grant and the Boulevard and made that left hand turn from Grant to the Boulevard?
High risk accidents area. The Boulevard in general is a shitty road to use. I’ve already lost a couple of classmates from high school (I’m 21) on that road
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 8, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. I’m from the country, but have driven a lot in Philly/NYC/Boston because my company has offices there.
Unfortunately, every city has high risk areas. I just find that the bad roads, bad road signage (akin to what you find in Philly which is indeed horrible) is compounded times 100 in Boston where people drive with the aggressiveness of John Rambo on an 8-ball.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Worst white-knuckle driving I have experienced, however, was Times Square during rush hour on a Friday night in December (around the holidays). Dreadful.
One city I would never dream of attempting to drive in: Mexico City. Makes Philly and Boston city highways look like cotdamn back country roads in Montana.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
NY is easy. Step on it. Use horn liberally. People are used to getting out of the way. Summon inner cab driver.
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