103 Straight Sellouts? I'm Not Buying It
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 2:32 PM EDT
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If you've been following the Phillies over the past week, you couldn't escape the hype about the team reaching 100 straight sellouts. They reached the milestone Thursday night against the Giants. After another 3 sold out games against the Nationals this weekend, the streak is now 103 straight sellouts at Citizens Bank Park. That's pretty amazing for a franchise that many of us can remember quite recently having trouble drawing more than 20,000 to a game.
But, as impressive as the Phillies' attendance has been recently, I'm having a really hard time buying this sellout story. Six numbers are representative of why I'm having a problem here:
45,401
44,410
45,449
45,093
45,266
44,539
These are the attendance numbers at Citizens Bank Park over the past six games. There's no doubt that they are impressive. Yet, if they were all sellouts, as the Phillies claim, how can the more than 1,000 ticket difference from the second game to the third exist? If it's a sellout, doesn't that mean there are no more tickets available to be sold? More specifically, if the Phillies can sell 45,449 tickets, as they did for Thursday night's game, don't they have tickets remaining for the other five games listed here? And by definition, isn't that not a sellout?
The front page story in the Inquirer Thursday morning about this feat explains:
In order to qualify as a sellout, Weber said, the Phillies must attract between 42,900 and 43,100 paid spectators.
"If we hit that number, we would consider it a sellout," said John Weber, the Phillies' vice president of sales and ticket operations.
Capacity at the ballpark is listed as 43,651, which means more than 1,000 fans on a typical night watch the game in standing-room only areas.
So these games aren't really sold out. Rather, they're just deemed to be sellouts because the Phillies' marketing department thinks that somewhere between 42,900 and 43,100 sounds impressive enough to slap the label "sellout" on the attendance. That's so, even though 43,100 tickets sold would mean 551 unsold seats (let alone the two thousand-plus unsold standing-room only tickets that would be available, as Thursday night's 45,449 attendance would indicate).
Let me make myself entirely clear -- there's no taking away from the fact that the Phillies are drawing unbelievable crowds of passionate fans to the games these days. Phillies fans love this team and are supporting them in record numbers.
But can't we get rid of the marketing nonsense that bastardizes the English language and just use the impressive facts as they are: that the Phillies are averaging over 45,000 tickets sold per game, which is second in baseball only to the Yankees; that they are on pace to sell almost 3.8 million tickets to games at Citizens Bank Park this year (including the three "away" games against the Blue Jays); and that the added revenue from the ticket sales is a major contributor toward putting a winning team on the field.
These are the facts, and they are amazing by themselves. Using the word "sellout" when tickets are still available does nothing other than diminish these accomplishments.
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No-shows are different
TP is right. The figures in MLB for attendance are now paid attendance. The article I linked to explains a bit more:
As of Wednesday, tickets ranging in price from $70 for field level seats and $17 for standing room remained available on the Phillies’ website. Secondary ticket brokers such as StubHub, a Major League Baseball business partner, also have tickets available on a daily basis. As of Wednesday, the prices on StubHub ranged from $19 to $156. Those tickets, however, have already been sold by the Phillies and count as part of the attendance whether they are sold by StubHub or not.
Montgomery said the Phillies are also fortunate because they have one of the lowest percentage of no-show rates in the league. A baseball source said the Major League Baseball average is around 10 percent for no-shows and the Phillies are around 7 or 8 percent.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess the counterargument here is that the number of standing room tickets available is entirely nominal and a matter of choice. In theory, there is no “capacity” for standing room attendees – unless the Fire Department sets some sort of legal limitation, you can always pack another person in. So it’s impossible to say exactly where to draw the line. Given that, I don’t mind defining “sellout” as a game where all the seats are sold. But YMMV.
Capacity at the ballpark is listed as 43,651, which means more than 1,000 fans on a typical night watch the game in standing-room only areas.
That’s so, even though 43,100 tickets sold would mean 551 unsold seats (let alone the two thousand-plus unsold standing-room only tickets that would be available, as Thursday night’s 45,449 attendance would indicate).
I’m confused. I read the first quote (from the article) to mean that 43,651 includes 1,000 standing room tickets, i.e. that there are fewer than 42,651 actual seats.
Oh, I read that to mean that there are 43,651 seats, and the normal night has more than 44,500 people, so most nights have 1000+ standing room folks.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the Phillies on-line “convenience guide” notes that:
“In the event of a sellout, a limited number of 500 standing room tickets will be available on game day beginning at 9 a.m. for day games and 4 p.m. for night games.”
by Boundforbeach on Aug 23, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there are some SRO tickets that are sold before game day. I know I have been able to find them on StubHub weeks ahead of the actual games.
by dannijd on Aug 24, 2010 12:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Although I understand what you are saying this is prevalent in all major MLB cities.
Notoriously the Mets are the worst at exaggerating figures to make games sell outs (pre-Shiti Field). From the numbers above I’d say we are closer to the more honest side than the ridiculous.
Nonetheless, don’t you think another article on Werth’s BA with RISP or Dom Brown needing to be sent down would have been a better use of your time?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
If you’d like to plan my day, feel free to send a resume and I’ll consider your application accordingly.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you cranky because the guy carrying his food back to his seats got more attention for his one handed grab than your catch did?
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
Umm, I believe you were the one who introduced the idea that you better knew how I could use my time.
As for my high school classmate and friend who made a great catch last week, I couldn’t be happier for him and the attention his business is getting via his catch.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
At Cherry Hill High School East in the late 80s, they drilled us on the lost art of making acrobatic catches while holding food.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
East in the late 80s huh – we probably know a lot of the same people (I know them from summer camp)
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 23, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
A fellow alumni!
Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Aug 23, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what is really, really sad about that?
I took two years of Latin and got a 38/40 (Gold) on the National Latin Exam four years ago. fml
Formerly RyanGiggs11, currently a Contributor to SBN Philly // @scotkess
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Aug 24, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I’ll keep my sarcasm to myself. I don’t want you typing harder than you already are.
I guess when people see baseball thru statistics and numbers it’s hard to see the periphery things like attendance in any other way. I don’t have an issue with it. If there is a uniform number or formula for figuring out one could have an issue with that number/figure. Again, I don’t.
In my world, baseball players are athletes and not stats and numbers.
In my world, the only sell outs are post 75 Eric Clapton and anything by John Mayer (but what do I know, I could give a rat’s ass about BABIP and WAR (unless Eric Burdon is playing with them again).
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
Why do you read this bolg then? WAR and BABIP are some of our favorite stats.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
by FuquaManuel on Aug 23, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
An article on Werth’s BA with RISP would almost certainly not be a better use of David’s time, seeing as how BA with RISP is a b.s. statistic.
no..it’s not a BS statistic. It tells how often a player gets a hit when it’s likely to result in a run.
You may argue that it’s not a consistent statistic, and open to lots of variability, over short runs, but it’s not BS.
Werth has sucked in those situations this year. That statistic tells us so. It may not be a good predictor of future events, but it is in fact a very honest tattle-tale on what has happened this season.
I’m Bart Simpson. Who the hell are you? A fucking Troll Doll?
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
David, some of the spread could be the non-paid comp tickets. The quote you cited states “paid spectators.” There are some that would not be counted in that, but would be occupied seats.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Actually I’m pretty certain they aren’t, as I’ve seen that cited a few times as the main reason that sellout attendance figures vary from game to game, not just at CBP, but other ballparks.
by Jeff Hildebrand on Aug 23, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh, it’s just marketing jargon. They have to justify their existence, too. LOL.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I completely understand and appreciate that. I don’t get why the actual facts aren’t good enough and why they have to invent a story that clearly isn’t true.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Because gradiose words catch the attention of those who don’t pay attention to the real story.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
“On track to draw almost 4 million.”
“Best attendance season ever for the Phillies.”
“Second highest average next to the Yankees.”
“Averaging more than 45,000 per game.”
Those are easy to understand grandiose and impressive claims that have the added benefit of being true.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You make fair points David, but personally, I really don’t have a problem with it. It doesn’t seem that they’re taking serious liberties with the numbers.
And if marketing “sellouts” leads to increased interest in the team, better national recognition, increased merchandise sales, possibly more leverage to negotiate higher television and radio contracts, and on and on, then what’s the harm. The Red Sox certainly like to market their streak of sellouts.
by Boundforbeach on Aug 23, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you, but I work in marketing so am just offering the other side of things; i.e. saying the same things over and over again begins to sound unimpressive and therefore PR personnel often invent new things that are untrue (or just on the side of truth) to avoid saying the same things over and over again. I would think their legal dept would have reviewed this info before it was released.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
"On track to draw almost 4 million."
Are we using the ‘10%’ to be almost – cause 4 million fans in a season of 81 home games (even with 3 extra) might be an impossibility :)
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 23, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
45000 per game, for 84 games, is 3,780,000, which is 5.5% short of 4,000,000. That’s “almost” in my book.
But I would never say it’s 4,000,000. :)
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If you say you have x amount of actual, physical seats and your attendance is over that I would consider that a sellout. We’re doing way over the stated capacity of 43,651. What I have a problem with (or would have a problem with) is the ‘meh’ attitude of, “if we sell 42,900 and 43,100 tickets that’s close enough to call it a sell-out”.
by reflect4ever on Aug 24, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
All are true, but none of those, as a fan, would prompt me to buy an advanced ticket the same way “100 straight sellouts” would. “100 Straight sellouts” as a fan suggests to me that I better get on the phone and order tickets for that Phillies Braves game next week, otherwise I won’t be able to get in. The others would just make me say, huh, that’s neat.
Or think, hey, no reason to try to buy a ticket since there are none available.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The goal of marketing is to create a desire and an urgency. If some people are more defeatist and don’t bother assuming they can’t get in, it may still increase their desire, so that they order tickets for a game further out. And if it doesn’t, the law of averages should still be in your favor that more people will call to order, than will give up on going.
I think it’s marketing.
Ala Ruth’s Chris. A place to go to tell people you went there, because nobody in their right mind pays $100+ for two normal steaks.
If you tell people it’s hard to get a ticket, you can justify raising prices, and folks want to tell others “I had a ticket to the soldout Phils game” and then the Joneses want to go to.
Cheesecake Factory is also a perfect example. The place is always sold out and it is one of the most overhyped restaurants in recent memory.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I like cheesecake factory, but then again…I love cheesecake.
I can fully understand why people wouldn’t like it.
I would never get a meal there, but I’ll get dessert to take home on occasion.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Right, buy the cheesecake from the case out front and take it home. No need to eat their overpriced food.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Even then, there’s a place I like better – there’s a Jewish-style deli (extremely non-kashrut, for any who care) called Toojay’s here in Orlando that has a cake that’s a layer of cheesecake between two layers of chocolate cake. It’s a two-night dessert for me, because it’s so rich.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
That’s what I’m saying. By the Way Ruth’s Chris isn’t great, but Schula’s may be one of the lamest steaks I ever had and the damned thing was 60 or 70 bucks.
haven’t tried Schula’s yet, and based upon that review, I’ll likely avoid it, unless somebody else is buying.
Me too, but I like the way they prepare your corn on the cob tableside at Smith & Wollenskis.
by Boundforbeach on Aug 23, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t basketball having a similar issue where teams are over exaggerating their ticket numbers a lot? I read an article by Bill Simmons a while back that sort of went into all the ways teams monkey with their attendance numbers.
Let the beasting begin.
by TransplantedFan on Aug 23, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
The Nats are the worst with this, methinks. When I went to the DC Mallpark on July 31st (Nyjer Morgan bobblehead day/Brad Lidge Zimmerman choke job), they ‘deemed’ it a ‘sellout’, despite a paid attendance of 38,049 when the stadium’s capacity is 41,888.
I am a little more sympathetic to the Phillies calling them sellouts; at least they are within, say, one thousand, rather than four thousand. Nevertheless, I do agree with the sentiment about it being about marketing and appearances rather than reality.
For what it's worth,
The lowest reported paid attendance during this streak has been 43,623, which was on July 7th 2009, the first game in the streak. Starting with the following day, they’ve had 102 straight games where the minimum has been 44,098 (June 8th this year).
So while the first game of the 103 was 28 below the seating capacity, the 102 games since then have been a minimum of 447 above that capacity.
Thanks for that info. The bottom line though is that on most nights, more people could fit, meaning more people could buy tickets, meaning it’s not a sell out. It’s a great attendance, no doubt, but not a sell out.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
So a sellout would be when every SRO ticket is sold? To me, if every seat is sold, that’s enough to call it a sellout. They don’t have to offer standing room tickets, as far as I know.
To me, sell out means you can’t buy tickets. If you can buy tickets, it’s not a sell out. It may be “really really close to being sold out,” but it’s not “sold out.”
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
But not every park is constructed to allow for SRO. So I would think that actual seats being sold out would seem like the most fair and logical way to do it.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
But every ticket system has a way to sell more tickets or indicate that it can’t do that. If you’re in the former, to me, it’s not a sell out. If you’re at the latter point, then it’s a sell out.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Out of ~44K fans, isn’t it realistic to assume that 1000 or so would rather not attend the game if it meant they had to stand to watch?
I have no issue with them calling it a sell out when there are no more seats available. They’ve ‘sold out’ all the seats.
So then call it a “seat sell-out.” I’m fine with that. But it’s not a sellout.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
so by your definition, a sell-out should be the same exact number of tickets sold everynight, unless seating configurations are changed?
Absolutely. (Unless it is the case that the comp tickets are not counted, in which case it would change each night, but not because there are tickets left over that are being ignored, but because some places in the stadium were not purchased but were never available to be purchased.)
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If a portion of SRO tickets are held until the day of an event, then I can’t hold them accountable to be sold like I would normal tickets. To me, every seat sold is a sellout.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Aug 24, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you. I have absolutely no problem with Sell Out meaning that all of the seats are sold, without regard to whether there are standing room only tickets available.
by dannijd on Aug 23, 2010 3:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The bottom line though is that on most nights, more people could fit, meaning more people could buy tickets,
David, let’s agree for the moment that selling every seat is not enough to call it a sellout.
How many more people could fit then? There must be some fire code or other ordinance that limits this.
If we could define that number, would it matter whether it was consistent with the way most other teams defined a sell out, and how they determined how many people could fit?
I read once that the paid attendance doesnt count for comp tickets to player’s families, the visiting team, and other Major League VIPs – and those figures dont count in the attendance numbers, so it is feasable that the difference could be vastly different from game to game
by PhilliesPhan610 on Aug 23, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
Per Dennis Deitch (Delco Times) on Twitter
@SonOfADeitch It’s restricted-view seats that they deduct from the total.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Do not conflate “Delco Times employee” with “journalist”.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m missing something – what is the question he’s answering with this tweet?
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
SELL OUT
i thought it was normal among the MLB to list anything within 10% to be a sell out.
Can we apply the same thing to hitting .300? As long as you’re above .270, let’s just say you’re a .300 hitter?
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
in my world…if you left it as hitting “0.3” that would mean that anybody hitting >0.250 would meet, “0.30” means anybody hitting >0.295 would qualify, etc.
Is Bobby Abreu a career .300 hitter? http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreubo01.shtml
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha. And Carlos Ruiz is a career .3 hitter.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
you got a link for that ? I was looking up MLB rules and regs and got nothing (likely because there is nothing).
It would be nice to know if there is a quasi-uniform approach amongst the teams in regards to this.
by Boundforbeach on Aug 23, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the NFL had something like that for blackout purposes.
by dannijd on Aug 24, 2010 12:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but will the record company pay me lots of money and will everything, be. all. right?
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 23, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve heard that teams will often ignore a single lonely seat in between a bunch of sold seats. For example, let’s say there’s a row of 15 seats, but seat number 8 is empty…
For example, S = Sold seat, E = Empty seat…
S S S S S S S E S S S S S S S
That empty seat is going to be virtually impossible to sell, so it gets ignored for sellout purposes.
That’s a minor example, but can contribute to differing numbers of attendees.
Sometimes
I wish we didnt do so well the last two years. Prior to 2009, I would just go down to CBP and just buy tix and 6 right before the game. Now i feel like i have to get raped by StubHub just to get in the door
But then you look at the team on the field and the fact that the Phillies now actually make the playoffs from time to time and suck it up and deal with it, no?
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Absolutely
I can deal with it, but the fans that actually show up to the games now are all suits. Ticket prices get driven up because its companies buying up the seats. In fact, one of the vendors I deal with bought up a whole level of luxury suites (which i was lucky enough to go to for the 100th sellout game). The comment was more of a happy memoir when i got the best of both worlds of buying seats right before the game AND seeing a world class team.
I go to games
And I can promise you that when I am at one, I am the farthest thing from a suit, as are many of the people around me— lots of Phillies tee shirts and jerseys!
I don’t see this at all. The people I see at CBP are no different than I’d see at an Old City bar or something. I don’t see a “suit” crowd.
It’s not like a Flyers game or something…
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Wc: comment below directed at comment by RucanorX, not you, obviously. You turned me on to PNC Park single-handedly, baby. It is tres bien.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to Pittsburgh tomorrow. Helping my brother move out there for college. Never been, I’m looking forward to it.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
It’s a cool city, really. I dig it but I don’t think I could handle the winters there.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
My sister spent a semseter at UPJ – i heard terrible things
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 23, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Johnstown is terrible, though the cemetery is a great place to…nevermind.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll e-mail you some restaurant recs.
I find Primanti’s to be overrated, but it’s arguably one of those places where you “have to go at least once.”
There’s this breakfast diner. On Southside near the italian market. Can’t remember the name to save my life, but it’s famous, greasy and just awesome.
by Boundforbeach on Aug 23, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
My hubby went there for law school. He lived in Squirrel Hill while he attended—he loved it. I was particularly fond of the brewhouse they created from an old church: http://www.churchbrew.com/. Be sure to check it out.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
It’s a great college town, my brother went to school there and still lives there. Cheap stuff to do, etc.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Aug 24, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a great city. Of course the entire city shuts down at 5 so if you want to find anything to do its going to be in one of the many neighborhoods right outside of the city.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Andy Warhol museum.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh is a lovely place. I wish you would reconsider your ill-mannered disparagement of the western end of this fair Commonwealth.
If I could read your comment, I might be more upset by it, but the blinding glare of 6 Super Bowl trophies is making that hard.
Yinzers might listen to your complaints, but, to borrow a phrase from Patrick Roy, the figurative Stanley Cup rings in their ears make it hard to hear you. Were your parents even born when Clarke, Barber, Parent, et al were winning titles?
You just degrade yourself with comments like “Shittsburgh”. That sort of thing is really unnecessary, and it doesn’t really make anyone who is a fan of Pittsburgh teams feel badly. It’s just: “Look! Another bitter Eagles fan!” followed by some Nelson Muntz laughter.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, no need to kill us all here just because one bozo disparaged a lovely city. I happen to be an Eagles/Flyers fan and I love Pittsburgh.
Why can’t we all just get along?
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I will cheer for the Eagles if it does not impact the Steelers, but the love just isn’t there. I used to screw the Eagles, but I married the Steelers.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Arguably my favorite stadium in the National League.
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It’s awesome. I saw the following teams at home this year.
1. Nats
2. Phils
3. O’s
4. Pirates
Stadium rankings:
1. Pirates
2. O’s
3. Phillies
4. Nats.
All are nice, but PNC and Camden have the je nais se quoi that really separates them from the others, and PNC is clearly superior to Camden.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as I know, this is how all sports operate. In the NFL, a game can’t be shown on TV locally unless it is “sold out.” But if I remember right “sold out” means 85% of the tickets must be sold or something like that. I know it’s not every ticket in the house.
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We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
(This has to be public domain by now, right?)
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair use, baby. And that’s a doctored original. The original had no ipod, of course. Anya Major, by the way. Just googled her.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 23, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s pretty lame of me not to have noticed I wasn’t using the original. D’oh!
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t we be at war with fredonia, we can take fredonia
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 23, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree to an extent.
If the team deems less than 100% of possible tickets sold a sellout just to toot its own horn, it feels a bit cheap (although I’m sure every team in every sport does this).
However, in the NFL, where home games aren’t televised unless they’re sold out, it makes sense not to force fans to buy obstructed view seats or individual seats (as in the seat on either side of that one is already sold).
Any idea why teams (besides NFL teams) even track sellouts? Is it just a marketing gimmick, or is it done for other purposes?
Fenway
I tend to think that daily fluctuations in attendance is normal. Fenway has had what, over 600 sell outs? Their average attendance over the last few years are:
2009 – 37,811
2008 – 37,632
2007 – 36,675
2006 – 36,182
2005 – 35,166
2004 – 35,028
2003 – 33,631
There’s a discrepancy between last year and the first year of the sell-out streak of 4,180. A lot more than the 1,000 give or take that you’re quibbling over with the Phillies. Numbers can be manipulated, no doubt. I tend to go with the Phils and their explanation as to what constitutes a sell-out, since they are the ones who in the end makes that call.
What would make your article more sound is if you researched sell-outs in past seasons to see what those numbers were. If numbers this year are considerably less than previous seasons sell-outs, then you have a point. If they are consistent with what the team is stating, well, that’s their sell-out numbers, give or take.
Just my opinion though.
But my point isn’t consistency. They can have a perfectly consistent policy, but I don’t care about that. I care about something that, to me, is cut and dry. A sellout means no tickets are left to be sold, but obviously based on the numbers, there are at most games.
by David S. Cohen on Aug 23, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe some of the seating difference at Fenway is due to additional seating being built into the Park (on top of the Green Monster, etc. I don’t think it makes up the entire difference, but is something to consider, just as the Phillies took several rows out of the outfield at CBP to make the stadium a little less homer happy.
by dannijd on Aug 24, 2010 12:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I figured it out
Americans are fatter than ever. Even if there are tickets remaining, the seats are actually all occupied by the muffin tops of those actually present. If the number of asses in the stadium actually matched the number of seats and SR spaces, it would result in nuclear fusion.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Aug 26, 2010 12:59 AM EDT reply actions
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