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Around SBN: The Ten Worst Swings Of The 2011 Season

Some Phillies Links For You, August 31, 2010: Punchless, Braves Extend, Minor Success

Dodgers' Kuroda one-hits Phillies
One of the more putrid, lifeless efforts I've seen.  And I'm just talking about our Comments in the Game Thread.

Sam Donnellon: Best season yet for Phillies' Manuel
I really hope we don't look back at this season and lament how badly Domonic Brown has been mishandled this month.

Bob Ford: Counting the possible reasons the Phillies have gone flat
I'm going with reasons #1 and 4. What do you think?

Pitiful Phillies 1-Hit in L.A. | NBC Philadelphia
Headline pretty much says it all.

IronPigs: IronPigs rally past Yankees
Well hey, that's something!

R-Phils win on Perez’s walk-off HR in 10th

Reading’s Austin Hyatt struck out five and didn’t walk a batter while allowing seven hits and four runs over 6 1/3 innings.

Well that's pretty OK I guess.

Heyward's 4 hits, 4 RBIs power Braves' 9-3 win over Mets  | ajc.com
Thank you, Mets, you gutless turds.

Giants lose on broken-bat triple, error
Well at least the Phillies held their ground in the Wild Card race...

In Houston, Happ's two-hit shutout continues frustration for Cardinals
O NOES never should have traded him!!!!!

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Speaking of putrid, awful comments, this gem following Murphy’s article early this morning may be one for the ages. In a way, I actually think it’s funny:

These shananaghans by Roy “FrontRunner” Halladay needs to end now. How come he didn’t volunteer to come into the game when they needed extra bodies last week? So Halladay could get smacked around today, that’s why he didn’t want to be a true teammate? He left his team out to dry last week just so he could get the stuffing knocked out of him this week. Mr. FrontRunner himself owes this team, this city and David Herndon an apology. If no apology is given then David Herndon should draw a line in the sand and tell management that its either him or Halladay

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Offense_still_struggling.html

by Boundforbeach on Aug 31, 2010 8:17 AM EDT reply actions  

It has to be a joke, right?

by zfg on Aug 31, 2010 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

There’s a “parody troll” floating around who presents himself as David Herndon Superfan. It’s sorta funny the first time or two.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 31, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Murphy is an insufferable douche. Especially when he tries to be funny.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

That guy needs a James Caan, Godfather 1, trash can involved monster beating for that quote.

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Aug 31, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve seen almost the exact same comment 7 or 8 times. I even posted it here once to laugh at. As WC says, I figure it’s either someone doing Andy Kaufman-esque performance art, or someone who lost his meds, or it’s Mama Herndon.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s from “How Much Ya Bench” an SNL skit on the Emelio Estevez/Pearl Jam in 94/95.

It is a public access show from Perth Amboy NJ with a bunch of steroid freaks in bum equipment sweat suits. Hysterical stuff.

This is the Sandler/Spade/Jay Mohr/Farley era.

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Aug 31, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

my bad, replied to something that wasn’t for me. I should just pack it in, I think I’m done for the day.

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Aug 31, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why don’t you just sit the next one out, how about it? :)

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 31, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question or suggestion?

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Aug 31, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

As gutless and putrid as the Mets were yesterday…they at least managed a few runs. The Phillies on the other hand…not so much.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 8:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Who do these arrogant nutjobs think they are?

Jamie McCourt wanted to “renege” on an agreement that made the Dodgers her husband’s personal property because that would have limited her effectiveness to pursue potential runs for public office, perhaps for mayor of Los Angeles, governor of California or president of the United States.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/08/jamie-mccourt-wanted-to-renege-on-post-marital-agreement-involving-dodgers-because-it-would-impinge-.html

by Boundforbeach on Aug 31, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Part of what led to the divorce was her hiring of a personal handler to help her become the next Hillary Clinton. Personally, I still rank her hiring of a Rasputin like mystic to help cleance the team’s karma is my favorite full on whacky Dodgers event of the whole McCourt tenure. From the looks of it, this whole mess couldn’t have happened to a more deserving couple.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

And yet Bud Selig could have avoided the whole thing if he took the highest bid, but that guy was paying all cash and full up on dollars so could have spent money to make the dodgers a jewel of baseball, and bud couldn’t have that

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why wasn’t the highest bid accepted?

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 6:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Old boys network with baseball ownership and Selig does not want a Mark Cuban type owner who throws money around and makes the rest of the owners look cheap by busting slot, etc. (Yankees excepted, of course)

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW – the logic in such a thing just doesn’t make sense, a free spending Dodger team (spent well) that was competitive year in and year out is GREAT for baseball as a whole, a yankees dodgers world series would make fox wet themselves

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed—don’t know why they’re being so short-sighted. What am I saying? I know why. We all do.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

perhaps..but if you owned a baseball team would you want to allow a competitor in who would drive up the salaries of your employees?

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe in free market competition, I believe sports teams while some sort of ‘public trust’ are basically ‘toys’ for REALLY rich people. I don’t believe in salary caps, I don’t believe in luxury taxes.

I believe if you have revenue sharing, a guy who spends more money to draw more fans is good for everyone, especially in a city like Los Angeles

I believe Bud Selig should take more grief for this asinine nonsense going on in Los Angeles because if he had let Anschutz buy the team (highest bidder, straight cash as opposed to having to leverage himself to make the payments) NONE of this embarrassment would be going on.

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And we all know what happened to Rasputin…

by woodyj on Aug 31, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m hoping that the adorable red-headed McCourt twins will one day set up an elaborate, dramatically ironic ruse for their parents to reconcile and put this whole unpleasantness behind them.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

And then become sexually ambiguous raging drug addicts?

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL.

journey of a thousand miles, doubleh, journey of a thousand miles.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they dont score some runs tonight, its time to panic.

by Nikk.m on Aug 31, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Panic

on the streets of London or Birmingham?

by David S. Cohen on Aug 31, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

What poor DJ is going to get caught up in our mob violence this time?

by Trev223 on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

hang the JD
hang the JD
hang the JD

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are you hanging lawyers for?

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

When I tell you I kill jokes, you will agree.

by Trev223 on Aug 31, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought they were hanging the guy from scrubs

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is tonight the line in the sand moment for panicking?

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Because it’s still August I suppose.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I, for one welcome our bat hindering overlords!

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

~Thomas Jefferson

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Aug 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Where’s the picture of Base Ba’al? I think it’s time to exorcise the demons!

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Comment from the Bob Ford article:
alwaysanotherview
They creamed SF and then Howard and Utley come back and the offense goes wicked cold? obviously not a coincidence. Reminds me of 2006 with the whole Bobby Abreu mindset.

Wow.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

He actually had at least a somewhat valid argument going until that last sentence there…

by zfg on Aug 31, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn’t an argument so much as a string of facts and then he drops the deuce. Probably lost about 50 IQ points reading that horsecrap.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could have all potentially lost 50 IQ points watching the Phillies inning after inning have ABs that looked more from Koufax ’s era when the high cheese was actually called a strike.

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have absolutely no idea how to handle Kuroda. The only reason they beat him in the NLCS is because he was coming off of injury and he was totally ineffective.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. But man, did it ever feel sweet to hammer him like we did in that game. It was like that game a few years ago when we finally got to Kip Wells after years of him inexplicably shutting us down.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Valid if the first part were true… Utley actually returned at the beginning of the San Fransisco series.

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The sad truth is that Utley and Howard don’t appear to be recovered from their injuries, and that they were really being outplayed by bench guys.
Utley post injury: 0.183 AVG/0.322 OBP/0.265 SLG
Howard post injury: 0.111 AVG / 0.135 OBP/0.111 SLG; K in 43% of PAs

for comparison….
Exxon on the season: 0.244 / 0.277 / 0.350
Gload: (somewhat of a moot point since he can’t play first while hurt) 0.279/0.333/0.486
Sweeney: (also not the best comparison b/c he played the bulk of the season in the AL) 0.254/0.318/0.430

This isn’t to say that Howard and Utley aren’t trying or that they’re “bad”. The point is, over the past 10-15 games (since their return from injury) odds are, the Phils would’ve done better to have played Valdez in place of either of them.

The point that the Phils offense has gone in the commode since their return is completely fair and accurate. Hindsight is 20/20 and those games are behind the team now and you can’t do anything about it, but it clearly suggests that neither of those guys is ready to play.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t care. I wish these arm chair psychologists types would buy a clue.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you saw Howard erupt at Scott Barry, it’s very evident that he does care.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and in addition for anyone to say Utley doesn’t care is just…well it’s eyond comprehension.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was more arguing dates than anything else. Utley came back a the beginning of the San Francisco series, not after, and was reasonably effective during that series (maybe not up to his usual standards, but decent). I will agree that since that series, both Utley and Howard have been floundering, and that it is possible that Valdez and (to a lesser degree of certainty) Sweeney would have hit better.

I have no doubt that both are trying, and that they both really want to help this team- nowhere in any of this do I see a pair of players who do not care. In some ways I wonder if there may be signs of pressing or trying too hard from both of them. I also recognize that benching them is not really a working solution, as other than a rest day, they are not going to re-gain their hitting skills without doing it. Since the bell that brought them back up from rehab can not be unrung, that means working on it in the majors.

However, it is probably important to note that the two of them did not tank this offense by themselves. They are not the reason why the rss of the lineup has suddenly lost its ability to swing a bat. They may have the farthest to go on the road to recovery, but everyone has to get right.

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 6:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If they’re not ready but playing anyway, isn’t that mostly the fault of the coaches and trainers?
Some athletes would try to play with no arms or legs like Monty Python’s Black Knight (“it’s a mere flesh wound”) if the coaches would let them…Utley, in particular, impresses me as one of those. (Didn’t he get a pin in his broken hand (rather than let it heal naturally) a couple of seasons ago, so he could return to the lineup quicker?) If they are not ready, isn’t it the job of the coaches to sit them down (or get them rehab, or whatever)?

by woodyj on Aug 31, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Part of the problem is that they need to regain their timing as hitters and that comes from seeing pitching in game situations (I am sure time in the batting cage helps, but it only does just so much.) From what I understand, once a player is activated off of the disabled lost, they can not do any more minor league rehab starts. Chase and Ryan are thus stuck doing rehab in the major leagues.

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 7:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

BTW

Reading comments like these are getting me dangerously close to blowing up. The fact that this whole “Bobby Abreu mindset” is such a widely held belief (my otherwise intelligent husband believes it) is one pot of stupid, but to compare Utley and Howard, two players that just helped take this team to back-to-back WS appearances—and win won of them—to this “don’t care” mentality is just so asinine it’s causing my neurons to spontaneously combust.

Not playing up to regular standards does not equal “doesn’t care”.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

If anything, I’d say it’s the opposite — both guys rushed back before they were fully recovered and/or acclimated. In Utley’s case it’s not a big deal, because he’s still at least drawing walks, and Valdez was an offensive black hole anyway. Howard’s problems are magnified because Gload was actually hitting pretty well before he went down.

by zfg on Aug 31, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can pretty much guarantee that Bobby Abreu (or Von Hayes or Mike Lieberthal or fill in the blank) care(d) a hell of a lot more about their work than the average WIP caller cares about his.

The self-image that Philadelphia fans have of being hard-working blue-collar citizens who just want to see their athletes give the same honest day’s work like they do is largely a myth in this day and age. Your average WIP caller is a lazy, stupid couch potato who steals money from his job and spends his evenings scratching his belly and eating Pringles.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is not to lionize professional athletes or anything, as many of them are arrogant a-holes. That said, being a ballplayer, while well compensated, is actually a quite difficult, strenuous, and stressful job. One of the reasons why they party so hard is that they also work very hard. You get no vacation during the season, very few days off, there’s constant travel. Your career can end at any moment, and many guys only have offseasons in name only, what with winter leagues and such. And even the compensation, while generous, isn’t nearly as generous as many people think it is. The top 10% get paid huge salaries, but your median bench player really doesn’t make very much over the course of his career.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eric Bruntlett was paid $2.4 million dollars over the course of his career. I’d define him as a sub-median bench player. Your definition of “very much” might need to be recalibrated.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take out Agent’s cut, Lawyers, Taxes and it probably does amount to not much, in relative terms.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention your average ballplayer is done earning money at the only thing he’s ever known how to do around age 31.

Although I suspect that Eric Bruntlett, he of the Stanford Economics degree, will probably wind up OK in the end.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 31, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

It really isn’t that much at all.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, figuring the average American Citizen makes in the neighborhood of 50K, it’s a pretty damned good living… if you can stay in the majors.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the average citizen makes $50k until he/she decides to retire at 65 or 70. Your average ballplayer is lucky if his career lasts past the age of 32. That’s a big discrepancy and part of the reason why they need to make so much up front (and get reputable people to manage said money).

Those players that invested in several corporate arenas tied to Wall Street watched a lot of their hard-earned money go down the toilet.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scott Eyre was one of them, if I’m not mistaken.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, he was. I read about it in a DN piece last year, I think.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that’s the thing: most athletes aren’t well-known for their intellects (I’m trying to be nice here). So, unless they are good in front of the camera, they need to invest wisely (Lenny, I’m looking at you) in a company or companies that can sustain them going forward. There are a lot of piranhas out there who just want to suck them dry and don’t care at all about them as people. I’m not saying “boo, hoo rich people,” because I wish I had their problems, but there aren’t many people you can really trust once you become a star.

Look at Tiger Woods. Now, I’m not saying the guy didn’t make his own bed, but the people he surrounded himself with who were supposed to take care of him didn’t do ANYTHING to help the guy out once Rome started burning. They just stood by and fiddled more or less.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, but if those same idiots hadn’t been lucky enough to have a strong right arm and good hand eye coordination, they’d make 30K a year picking up trash cans or working a punch press like most other people. There’s nothing that prevents them from doing those jobs after retirement, and they’ve been lucky enough to make significant money while they were able. If they choose to fritter away their money on nonsense, they probably would be in the same boat with or without the athletic talent. That’s all I’m saying.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lucky and hard working, I’d say. It’s tough to come back down to doing regular, every day work when you’ve been to the top of the mountain. You don’t see CEO’s who’ve watched their business go bust bussing tables. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying it’s right; but reality often sucks.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re talking average players here, not stars. I’m sure it may be a bit of a shock to Miguel Cairo to go get a 9-5 job when his career is over, but he could. Plus, I think a lot of the middle of the road pros are aware they’re one bad game away from looking for a new line of work.

To get back on point, I’m only arguing, that 2.4 Million over 7 years or whatever is a lot of money, when you can go on to make money in a regular job after playing, which I think most players do anyway.

How the hell did I end up arguing Bilzo’s side of things all of a sudden.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Median income in the Philadelphia area is about $50,000 per year, and the average person works for about 40-50 years. So $2.4 million doesn’t put you any higher than the median.

Of course, a ballplayer can find another job after he retires and supplement that income. But this does not alter my point, which is that a typical ballplayer’s salary is not enough, by itself, to set oneself up for life.

This is especially the case when you consider that Bruntlett, as much as he sucked, is not an average professional ballplayer. To the contrary, he is actually a very successful professional. First of all, he made the majors, which by itself puts him way ahead of the vast majority of his peers. And he stayed there long enough to make it to his arb years, which puts him ahead of even more of his peers.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

the key phrase there is “in relative terms”, which negates the “amount to much”.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

$2.4 millon dollars isn’t much considering the abuse your body/personal life takes just trying to stay in the majors and being shipped all over God’s green earth. Although I’d take the money, a million isn’t what it used to be in the grand scheme of things.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball isn't that strenuous. Anyone but the catcher can cry me a wussy river.

2 man deck crew, first carpentry gig in VA.
4-8 holes, 12in. in diameter by 24in deep, belled out at the bottom 18 in. No augur because it took less time to dig with post hole diggers (12 lbs) and digging bar (17lbs.) than it did to dig out the augur bit when it would inevitably get stuck in the red clay of VA’s soil.

Average pressure treated lumber haul from street to back of house [Add 10 to 15 lbs to given weights for water]

30 to 40 pieces of 2in x 6in x 10, 12, 14, or 16ft. weighing in lbs., a piece [32, 38, 44, 51].
15 to 25 pieces of 2 × 8 × 10, 12 @ [44,53] lbs.
6 to 10 pieces of 2×8×10,12,14, or 16 @ [55, 66, 77, 88] lbs.
4 to 8 pieces of 6inx6in x10ft @ [81 to 100] lbs.
2 pieces of 2×12×12 @ 79 lbs.
2 packets of 2×2×4ft pickets, 40 pickets a pack each @ 2.25 lbs = 100lbs
4 pieces of 2×4×10,12,14,16 @ [13, 16, 19, 21] lbs.

4 80lbs bags of conctrete per hole to be hauled from street to back of house = [1280 to 2560] lbs

This is all done by 1 person (i was an apprentice so that’d be me) in 1 to 1 1/2 days. In humid ass VA heat. Then there was the building the deck part.

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, can I use that as a future signature quote? It’s fantastic.

Philadelphia fans, like many fans across the nation, are deluded. I don’t know if it’s the egalitarian thing we talked about before or if it’s “tall poppy syndrome” or what, but Philly fans are always way too concerned with how much money athletes make. Now professional athletes don’t cure cancer or anything like that, but my guess is that what they do is 100x more important that the crap I do that just lines corporate fatcats pockets with even bigger profits.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aww, I’m flattered. All yours if you want it.

It really is pretty silly that people moan and groan about pro athlete salaries. Pro athletes, like most entertainers, work pretty hard and make people’s lives better in the process. In the grand scheme of things, they look much better than your dilettantes with inherited wealth, or even the large chunk of MBAs on Wall Street who do nothing beneficial for society, all of whom are much richer than your average ballplayer.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or in other words, I agree.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rod Barajas doesn’t make anyone’s life better in the process…

by zfg on Aug 31, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah there are always exceptions…

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t our opponents count- their lives (or at least their chances of winning) are improved when they let him play against the Phillies!

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, but he’s actually a pretty bad player when he’s not facing the Phils, so he’ll make your life worse by dragging your favorite team down the other 95% of the games.

I guess if you hate both the Phillies and whatever team Rod Barajas is currently on, then he’s improving your quality of life, though.

by zfg on Aug 31, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

If someone hits him in the head with a bat, a la Chooch from earlier this year, that might improve my quality of life.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d like to clarify, despite my earlier comment, I’m not upset about how much money athletes get paid. They get paid a lot, and I’m fine with that. It’s a niche job, they’re good at it. Obviously they deserve that pay, because the economics dictate that the owners make money while paying them exorbitant salaries. The market dictates their pay. If nobody watched baseball, they’d make diddly, and then that’d be what they deserved to be paid.

I’m not going to sugar coat the fact that they make gobs of money, even the Eric Bruntletts of the world. Maybe he did only make $2.4 million, but he did it in 5-6 years time at the major league level, and if he’s got a head on his shoulders and doesn’t live out of his means and try to start a classic car collection and buy every member of his family a restaurant, he should be good to go, even if he just shoves it in a bank and collects 2% interest.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems you may have lost the thread of this conversation several posts back. Nobody here is saying that ballplayers aren’t paid well. In fact, I said that they were in my very first comment. My point was that (1) they are paid much less generously than most people perceive them to be paid, and (2) they are, generally speaking, not appropriate targets of resentment because they work hard for their income and provide a good service in keeping us entertained. The point is not that we should feel bad for ballplayers, but that we should not resent them either, and we certainly have no right to attack them for not trying hard enough.

The fact that the market sets a person’s salary is not, in and of itself, a valid defense of that salary. The market is f’d up in a lot of ways, and some people really do make indefensible salaries. But ballplayer salaries are not that high and are not indefensible.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was clarifying my earlier commentary about Bruntlett being well paid and your definition being a bit off kilter. I could see how somebody would put words in my mouth and say I thought they were overpaid. I wanted to state my position before it got stated for me.

Additionally…
I don’t get why you need to start so many posts with comments along the lines of

"It seems you may have lost the thread of this conversation several posts back. "

You’re assumption that every statement is from an idiot that wants to argue with you is trite.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

damnit….wrong ‘your’ I hate it when I do that.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s kind of weird, isn’t it, that very few people other than you ever think I’m calling them an idiot.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

you seem to have a double standard with the level of respect you desire from others and the level you give them.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it’s worth, I frequently get the sense you’re calling Bilzo an idiot.

by phatj on Aug 31, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I used to think the “Blue Collar” thing was odd, since so many financial, insurance and health care companies are based downtown. It’s not like Philly is the Detroit or Pittsburgh of the 1960’s or Cleveland or another Rust Belt city. It just always seemed an odd fit with Philly, for me.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should say that I’m all for egalitarianism. But if you’re going to be egalitarian, you might as well aim your weapon at the right targets. Pro athletes ain’t it.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

In other words, fuck the owners. All of ’em.

Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.

by FuquaManuel on Aug 31, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

EXACTLY! Why is it that the athletes are the targets and not the owners who pocket the most money at the end of the day? People point fingers at Hanley Ramirez but not the greedy/cheap Marlins’ ownership who wants 80% of their stadium paid for by taxpayers?

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hanley signed the deal the Marlins were willing to give him. If they offered me a gazillion dollars to play shortstop, I’d take it too.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you agree with me? What I’m saying is the Marlins finally payed a player what he was worth instead of pocketing all the money they make through revenue sharing and other avenues and simply trading that player before he reaches end of arb.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m saying you lay blame at owners for players salaries if it bugs you. Don’t fault the guy cashing the paycheck, get mad at the guy writing it.

But then again…I still feel athletes are paid appropriately, based upon the market dictating their salary. While it’s suggested that Howard’s salary is crazy and overpaid based on production, fact is, the Phillies are still going to make money and aren’t going to go in the toilet (ie bankrupt) because of those salaries. If the Marlins were losing money by paying Rarmirez what they did, they’d either:
A) stop doing it or…
B) go bankrupt

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t bug me at all. And you’re right—it boils down to ownership every time.

I also think they are paid appropriately—have this argument about hockey players all the time and how they are, for the most part, underpaid, so when one finally gets paid what he’s worth, he sticks out.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Philly is pretty blue collar. Open the a phone book in the DC Metropolitan area and look for machine shops. You probably find 4 and most of those are in Baltimore.By the time I left the area the one shop in Alexandria had closed. It all tech. and government. When I moved back to this area I opened In the phone book that covers the Warmister area and there are 66 machine shops listed. That ’s a pretty small area with a high percentage of machine shops relative to the population.

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Including my Dad’s Machine Shop. How about that? I’m not saying there isn’t a large Blue Collar element to the Philly area, I’m just saying it’s not as big as it is in other US cities (frankly, NYC is every bit as blue collar as Philly), I just think it gets overblown and romanticized a bit by Philly fans.

by Cormican on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve read that NYC’s manufacturing base is just about gone other than chocolate. Per capita they may have more people invovled in the service end of trades like construction. As to the romantizing the blue collar thing, I wouldn’t know, haven’t been here as an adult to long to notice. (I left when I was young). I would say that culturally we’re more homogenous than NYC so perhaps that enables people to easily identify the city’s character. When a place is more transient it is more difficult to succintly describe the character of a city.

by j reed on Sep 1, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the way what type of machining does your dad do? There’s a tradition of it in my family but lived in DC where you could only get a machinist apprenticeship thru a) the union and without a big demand for the work , unions weren’t pro-active about taking on new people, b) dumb luck like a buddy of mine who got the job from his neighbor who was an engineer for a company that designed aerospace protoypes. Actually my Uncle Frank was a tool maker who worked on some sighting mechanisms for bombers and artillery during WW 2, I have all his old books from when he was an apprentice but my cousin gave away alot of his old measuring tools when he died…I was pissed.

by j reed on Sep 1, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

that should say

There’s a tradition of it in my family but I lived in DC where you could only get a machinist apprenticeship….
My family are all born and raised in Philly. Only a few moved.

by j reed on Sep 1, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Bob Ford article

surprised me because it didn’t suck.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Me, too

But the comments didn’t let me down. They must have taken precious time out of their WIP calling schedule to deposit those golden nuggets.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

What else were they supposed to do while on hold?

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 4:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I am still trying to figure out the logic Charlie was using when he introduced Brown into the game as a PH thus automatically bringing Kuo into the game?

by PSUcup1 on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Kuroda tiring. Pitcher’s spot, 2 RISP. Need a lefty bat who can either hit for power OR run real fast to first. Gload’s on the DL. Hmm….Valdez or Schneider….nope. Sweeney – righty, save for counter-move.

That part’s easy. Now PH for Brown is another matter, except for the fact that Chollie lurves him some hot handed batters. But I’m not sold that Brown’s L/R splits are all that pronounced (they did exist in AAA over 100+ PAs, but not so much at lower levels with higher sample sizes), so given that the matchup is a complete unknown, why not give it a whirl?

You could counter-argue: but it was a high-pressure spot! Well, less so after Vic’s hit, and what’s the worst he could have done, NOT GET A HIT? The dadgum professional hitters did that all night.

Given that they Phils made their decision to keep Brown up with the club before they knew FOR SURE that Utley and Howard would rush back onto the roster, his lack of playing time/PAs is somewhat understandable and shouldn’t be totally hindsighted. But given what transpired, the Phillies jump started an arb clock for not much in the way of p/t and, worse, by sitting him made him rustier than if they were to bring him up tomorrow.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, 2 runners on, 1 in SP.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Charlie was never going to let Dom face Kuo. So my point is just bring Sweeney in to PH. If charlie couldnt figure out that Torre was going to Kuo then he is clueless.

If he just has Sweeney enter as the PH, Torre may or may not have brought in Kuo. If he leaves him in then I get the match up I prefer (as Kuo is the last guy on that staff I want to face). Also Sweeney hits righties better than lefties this year (and for his career). This year righties hit Kuroda better than Lefties. If he brings Kuo in, then Brown is not wasted if the game happens to go extra innings.

by PSUcup1 on Aug 31, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a fair point, actually.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m getting pretty tired of him using Brown as the PSYCH!pinch hitter.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sometimes it really seems that Charlie doesnt take anything into account other than getting a RH to face a LHP (or vice versa). I mean he loaded up his line up with lefties against Shawn Marcum even thought all the facts would tell him to actually do the exact opposite!

by PSUcup1 on Aug 31, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree, hadn’t looked at it that way. Too used to Chollie ThotWavz.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very good points. After last week’s 16 inning game, one would think Manuel would be less likely to burn a pinch hitter in attempt to change the pitcher (particularly with Kuo warmed up in the pen). 99 times out of a hundred it makes no difference in the end, but every once in a while it does.

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

burning Brown is one thing. All but begging the opposing manager to bring in the best reliever in the league is another!

by PSUcup1 on Aug 31, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone see this?

Was on 700 Level

E:60 Camp Erin

Woo, boy. I’m not much of a cryer (I know you’re thinking “no way”), but this got even me. Probably because I lost my own mother when I was young and wished there had been something like this 30-something years ago.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

sure did

Absolutely heartbreaking, but also underscores just how solid a human being Jamie Moyer is.

Yes, I, too, wept like some… grandmother.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 31, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was doing okay until Arthur Rhodes and his daughter came on, then I got pretty choked up.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

For me it was the girl who had to tell her little sister about their dead dad. OOF.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 31, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that probably softened me up for Rhodes’ story.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve gotta say, I was in a bad mood today (Phillies, Work, house repair and it’s like 8,000 outside), but that video put things in perspective.

by Cormican on Aug 31, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it was actually only 6400° today cormican.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the Record

doubleh is killing it in this thread. That is all.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 31, 2010 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Awww

You’re making me blush.

I didn’t even curse once (unless crap counts). I wanted to. Oh, did I ever want to.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crap is a brash word, but not profanity… Great job today!

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 5:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Whatever

Rationalization. They are pissed that people keep bringing up how terrible they are because they don’t sell out games when they are in first place yet they say things like: “I’d rather play for 15k Braves fans than 45k Phillies fans,” which indicates they are just as quick to throw stone memes as any Phillies fan. “Everyone knows Phillies fans are the worst battery-throwing, upchucking, taser-inducing vile fans on the planet.”

Bite me, hypocrites. Everyone has a rep they have to live with; this is yours. Deal with it.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just liked the fact that the argument was, “We’re not really the worst, we’re in 14th place!”

This sort of reminded me of the old story of the congressman who was named by some organization as the dumbest member of the House of Representatives, and then called a press conference to deny it.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

the argument is just that the reputation is unwarranted, and some places which are supposedly “great baseball towns”, like Cincinnati, actually do not support their team as well as we do.

But, technically, you are correct. I am saying we are not the worst. I never wanted to claim we are the best. We are talking about attendance here, though. Not the team.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Aug 31, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

I believe Philly’s rep as “worst fans in the world” is also unwarranted. Just because one or two fans in a group of 45k do stupid things doesn’t mean the whole fanbase should be blamed.

Again, as I said above, it’s an unfortunate rep that we have to live with, and you have an unwarranted one as well…although to be fair, no Phillies fan will ever understand not selling out playoff games. It’s just never gonna happen.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe Philly’s rep as "worst fans in the world" is also unwarranted.

Based on isolated incidents (some over 4 decades ago) mostly at football games

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I don’t think Atlanta has a reputation of being the worst baseball town in America. Miami and Tampa certainly have far worse reputations, for instance. Pittsburgh. Washington. Probably others I’m forgetting.

When people say “The Braves have the worst fan base,” the intent is not for that statement to be taken literally. They’re saying “worst” in the same sense in which a person might say, “Man, the Filet-O-Fish at McDonald’s is the worst!” Not that it’s literally the worst food on earth, but just that it’s bad.

Also, trash talk is supposed to be hyperbolic. That’s sort of the point. It would be one thing if someone were to write an essay on Baseball Prospectus concluding that Atlanta had the worst fans based on statistical evidence. But you shouldn’t take it so personally or literally when some random commenter makes the same statement in an offhand fashion on a blog.

All that being said, you have to admit that Atlanta’s fan base for baseball is not particularly strong. Yes, you outdraw Cincinnati, but you also have a lot more people than Cincinnati does. You can’t just look at raw attendance, you also have to consider attendance per capita. The Braves really ought to be drawing many more people than they are right now, and I think it is understandable for fans of other teams to be appalled that they are not. If anything, I would think that “real” Braves fans such as yourself would join us in that sentiment all the more, rather than disputing it.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atlanta has a reputation as a transient town. More people ‘settle’ there than are raised there and already have sports allegiances.

Do Rays fans whine about this so much when theere are more red sox fans at the top when the red sox show up to town?

Did anyone hear how many CHEERS went up when the no hitter was broken up, those weren’t dodger fans.

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You make very good points.

I guess I’m just too sensitive and take things too literally, and since I try to avoid being too hyperbolic, I sometimes don’t appreciate it fully in others.

I agree that the Braves should probably be drawing a little better, but I understand the huge number of factors that contribute to the lower weekday attendance. Weekend crowds are great, because lots of the fanbase, which is spread all over the southeast (and really the entire country) come into town for the weekend.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Sep 1, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Though I don’t believe their attendance indicates that Atlanta has the worst fans, their comments in the attached thread doesn’t exactly do anything to dispel the notion either.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their threads read like Pinstripe Alley.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll take your word for it, I don’t visit their site.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only did during the WS, and I promise you I’ll never do it again. As a general rule, I find avoiding reading OTT (other team’s threads) is a good practice. It only serves to make you mad because EVERY fanbase has fans that only serve to trash the other teams and make ignorant statements.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a general rule I agree, it’s not worth visiting OTT. Now I think it is every fans right to bash other teams if they so decide to do so. If they want to make outlandish claims then expect to get into a war with that teams fans, so be it. I have no issue with that. I welcome fans of other teams if they want to have real discussions but I have never understood fans need to make general and usually ignorant and arrogant statements about teams and their fans. Like you said, every fanbase has a rep, some good, some bad but don’t bash the people who truly didn’t do anything wrong.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only apply that rule to division rivals/playoff opponents/other teams I hate, and it geos without saying TC and PA are in that category. I have no issue with checking out the sites of teams I am neutral about; McC is always hilarious, and I enjoy a few other non-Philadelphia sites.

I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.

by alcatraz0109 on Aug 31, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually agree with all of you. There’s no value to visiting OTT, and the overall quality of internet comments is not very high among any team’s fan base. There are certainly some Phillies blogs out there (not this one, of course) that other teams’ fans could point to and say “Look at the dumb Phillies fans!” So offensive material from another team’s blog is not to be taken seriously. It’s just fun is all. I mean, this is pennant race season! It makes things a little more dramatic to develop a little hostility toward the enemy. But YMMV.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve posted on other teams threads periodically, for a change of scenery, including Talking Chop and Purple Row most recently.

As long as you out yourself as the enemy, give honest (ie non-homerish) assessment, and play nice, it’s usually a pretty entertaining event and most of the enemies are happy to accept you into their home, regardless of the outcome. Sure there’s a troll here and there, but usually his own kind turn on him if you just ignore him.

If you’re hoping that a blog during a baseball game is going to be a mensa meeting, you’re really setting yourself up to be disappointed. It’s a baseball GAME. Enjoy it for what it is, in the company of others doing the same.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually have found some of then (Pinstripe Alley, Purple Row, Red Reporter) kind of interesting. I realize that there are idiots everywhere, and that just as w have opposing players we do not like, the same is true everywhere. I visit OTT only as a fly on the wall, never joining or making my presence known in large part because of trolls that visit here, and how they come off— I do not want Phillies phans to get any worse of a reputation because of something I say.

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 8:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

dannijd….
you can post on those sites without being a troll. I’ve seen your work, I know you’re capable.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

bases loaded, nobody out for Jeff Francoeur

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Productive out at least.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

now up to Henry Blanco, a/k/a Enrique White

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

more productive outs

Depending on the mets in a playoff run is like depending on American Idol to produce talent

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it’s not late September yet…so we’ve got that going for us.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kelly Clarkson... Carrie Underwood

Proof that every once in a while even American Idol can produce talent.

by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 8:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That’s not what that is proof of

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kelly Clarkson’s songs are corny but she has an outstanding singing voice for pop music.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Christina Augilera has an outstanding singing voice for pop music

Kelly Clarkson has auto tune

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clarkson isn’t that bad; Jennifer Hudson made it after she was on American Idol (but didn’t win). Most of the also-rans are better than the eventual winner.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a valid point, and I agree with it (also, country singers on idol tend to do better when they go solo as well I’ve noticed)

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other than Underwood, who are you thinking of? Pickeler (sp?) has faded pretty quickly, hasn’t she? and she’s the only one I can think of.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

On a separate note, what ever happened to that Sideshow Bob dude from the first season?

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Justin Guarini (I saw his name in movie credits the other day)

He cut his hair it seems

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1227702/

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s a local Doylestown boy, right?

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Josh Gracin was on American Idol as well

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hudson’s voice is tremendous. Aguilera and Clarkson are basically on the same level, but Hudson blows them both away.

by taco pal on Aug 31, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you see her in “Dreamgirls”? The movie was awful—the show is much better—but she killed that song. Masterful.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but come on, at least it’s better than any movie version of the musical of the movie

And Rent was an abomination and Chris Columbus should burn in a special cricle of hell if one wasn’t already reserved for his horrible contribution to film making before then.

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, yes. I liked “Chicago,” though. It’s much better than the show. I was hoping “Nine” would be same. Nostsomuch.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Musicals belong on stange, but what Columbus did to REnt was atrocious.

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I don’t mind if they take a less than stellar stage show and try to make it into a movie. Like I said, I like what they did with “Chicago”. I hated “Nine” the musical, so was hoping it would be a better movie.

“Rent” is a good show and didn’t need the movie treatment. They tried to use most of the original cast, too, and it just didn’t work on any level.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never seen Chicago but I’m pretty sure it’s a long running show with an excellent reputation of ‘stellarness’ that’s been revived multiple times, if you like Bob Fosse that is

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve tried to like it—have seen it in two runs on Broadway—it’s just not that good. “Cats” ran a long time, too, and it sucks. Sometimes lots of people are wrong.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was it better than cats? Would you see it again and again?

I want Dr Horrible to get a stage version

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked Chicago, which is odd because as a rule I loathe musicals.

I’m actually permanently blind and deaf after stabbing out my eyes and ears while watching Rent.

by phatj on Aug 31, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The film or the stage production?

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, should have specified. Chicago the movie, Rent the play.

by phatj on Aug 31, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago. Cats. Rent. You call these musicals?

Why, in my day, they knew how to make musicals (and I’m not talking about the Rogers and Hammerstein crap). I mean stuff like The Music Man, A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum, West Freakin-Side Story.

These were great plays and great films.

Nine. Give me a break.

by essman on Aug 31, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve seen Forum, forum is awesome, so is west side story, better than the original source material in my mind.

Never made it through The Music Man

Guys and Dolls is excellent

Your new nick name is buzz

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on Guys and Dolls. I always wanted to sing “Sit Down, You’re Rockin’ the Boat,” one of my all-time favorite show tunes.

by essman on Aug 31, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could be friends. I absolutely hate R&H. I like a lot of older musicals, too, but like quite a few of the newer ones. Even though “Les Miserables” is hugely popular, it is a good show and far better than reading that 1,000+ page book.

I should note that when I performed all through school and in college, I only did musicals, so I’m a full-on theatre nerd.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t like him much, either. I liked “Joseph” and a handful of songs from “Evita,” that’s it.

But I liked Les Mis and to a lesser extent “Miss Saigon” —Claude-Michel Schönberg, Alain Boublil and Trevor Nunn.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a fan. But, goodness, what I would give to sing Che in Evita.

by essman on Aug 31, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mandy Patinkin was awesome. He sang the stuffing out of that role.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The man who wrote Gremlins, one of the greatest Christmas movies of all time? Perish the thought.

by phillyinportland on Sep 3, 2010 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah..this is what I was getting at in my post. I’ve never noticed it directly, but it wouldn’t shock me.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Augilera has a tremendous voice but she feels the need to put every chop and style into every song. Puts the voice over the song. Nonetheless, girl has some serious pipes.

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I was just commenting on the ‘tremendous’ voice comment, Auiglera has a tremendous voice (don’t believe me? Go check out the ‘credits’ song for Mulan), Mariah Carey, nuts, but a tremendous voice, Whitney Houstone, tremendous voice

Clarkson live, not tremendous

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whitney Houston USED to have a tremendous voice before all the drugs. Have you heard her now? It just hurts to listen to her and think of all that talent she threw away on freakin Bobby Brown. Ugh.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t heard her live since the 88 (88?) superbowl

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saw her on DWTS on her “comeback” album and she sang and it was sheer torture. I was a huge fan of hers in the 80s. Depressing.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll take your word for it. Don’t listen to alot of pop music. When it comes to female leads, the Gits’, Mia Zapata is more to my liking.

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll admit to “genie in a bottle” being on my jump drive in the car.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ain’t no other man is a nice blend of pop and 40stype stuff…when she had her kid she kind of mellowed out, for like an album, then went slut crazy again

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just popped my itunes onto random – sometimes it’s a fine mix – while i study descriptive statistics – blech

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never heard her sing live, so I’ll reserve judgement on that. Not saying she doesn’t have a good voice, but with the way so much pop-music is ‘created’ today, I’m hesitant to give any singer credit for their voice unless I’ve heard in a live version that I can assume wasn’t ‘digitally mastered’

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve heard her—it’s good and I’m tough on singers. I’m not big on Underwood after seeing her live a few times. I think he voice is very small. It’s probably better in a small, intimate setting, but I’m guessing from the sounds of her records she’s very much digitally altered.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

my personal fave (wrt voice beauty) is Alison Krauss. If that woman had a slightly more attractive face, she’d have way more followers than the likes of Mariah, Janet, Shania, etc….

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Her music not sucking would help, I lost so much respect for Robert Plant

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

well…I guess not everybody appreciating bluegrass could be an obstacle too.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I appreciate bluegrass, I know the world banjo champion (i think 78 or 79), I just hate alison krauss music :)

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

to each his own.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah…I think that’s more of ‘locating’ talent, than it is producing it. But that’s nitpicking.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am amazed that your diss of American Idol produced such a long and involved subthread.

by essman on Aug 31, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

A TRIBUTE to american idol, a minor annoyance that has lasted way too long

by SportingFanaticism on Sep 1, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well that sort of depends on your definition of talent.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Mets are sort of punks.

eom

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, said it before but it bears repeating—relying on the Mets to help at all in this race is an exercise in futility.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

So is relying on the Phillies offense apparently.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m more depending on the braves home record to revert to something that’s, you know, believable

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

giving the two runs back in the bttom half is bad to jesus it’s just irritating

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

And then some…it’s now 4-2, Braves. The Mets really are gutless turds.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gutless or just, you know, playing out the string, if the phillies were 5 games up we wouldn’t even care :)

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

“It’s not a market where you can go young. You have to bring in players.”

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

So keep bringing in old, broken down guys and this is what you get, folks.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s funny cause guys like Mariano, Jeter, Posada, Cano, etc…the yankees run in the early 2000s was very ‘home grown’

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

aren’t all turds gutless?

I prefer turdless guts, because you know…they can go either way.

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The braves got SEVEN in the bottom half after the mets took a 2-1 lead?

Seriously, Manuel and Minaya BOTH have to be canned after this year, right?

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

You would think so—didn’t I read a few weeks ago about some Mets fans having a protest?

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, Snookie and The Situation showed up at a game with gaga and the fans went hysterical with joy to their heros

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

So any thoughts about tonight’s game?

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Im at the point where I’d take a loss if Utley and Howard would go a combined 4-9 with 2 HR

by Bilzo on Aug 31, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m at the point where USA and Glee reruns really are a better options if the online course system i have to use for my class is down for long :)

EIther that or Hex & The City

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pain but with a touch of detached acceptance that anything can happen in this sport that feels alot more like poker than a sport sometimes.

by j reed on Aug 31, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

NY Mess rolling over and dying for the Braves 9-2…
(sigh)

by woodyj on Aug 31, 2010 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I sort of expected this—the Mets don’t fight quite as hard as the Nats do against either us or the Braves. Same with the Fish.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 31, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

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