Some Phillies Links For You, August 31, 2010: Punchless, Braves Extend, Minor Success
Dodgers' Kuroda one-hits Phillies
One of the more putrid, lifeless efforts I've seen. And I'm just talking about our Comments in the Game Thread.
Sam Donnellon: Best season yet for Phillies' Manuel
I really hope we don't look back at this season and lament how badly Domonic Brown has been mishandled this month.
Bob Ford: Counting the possible reasons the Phillies have gone flat
I'm going with reasons #1 and 4. What do you think?
Pitiful Phillies 1-Hit in L.A. | NBC Philadelphia
Headline pretty much says it all.
IronPigs: IronPigs rally past Yankees
Well hey, that's something!
R-Phils win on Perez’s walk-off HR in 10th
Reading’s Austin Hyatt struck out five and didn’t walk a batter while allowing seven hits and four runs over 6 1/3 innings.
Well that's pretty OK I guess.
Heyward's 4 hits, 4 RBIs power Braves' 9-3 win over Mets | ajc.com
Thank you, Mets, you gutless turds.
Giants lose on broken-bat triple, error
Well at least the Phillies held their ground in the Wild Card race...
In Houston, Happ's two-hit shutout continues frustration for Cardinals
O NOES never should have traded him!!!!!
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Speaking of putrid, awful comments, this gem following Murphy’s article early this morning may be one for the ages. In a way, I actually think it’s funny:
These shananaghans by Roy “FrontRunner” Halladay needs to end now. How come he didn’t volunteer to come into the game when they needed extra bodies last week? So Halladay could get smacked around today, that’s why he didn’t want to be a true teammate? He left his team out to dry last week just so he could get the stuffing knocked out of him this week. Mr. FrontRunner himself owes this team, this city and David Herndon an apology. If no apology is given then David Herndon should draw a line in the sand and tell management that its either him or Halladay
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Offense_still_struggling.html
Yes
There’s a “parody troll” floating around who presents himself as David Herndon Superfan. It’s sorta funny the first time or two.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
I’ve seen almost the exact same comment 7 or 8 times. I even posted it here once to laugh at. As WC says, I figure it’s either someone doing Andy Kaufman-esque performance art, or someone who lost his meds, or it’s Mama Herndon.
It’s from “How Much Ya Bench” an SNL skit on the Emelio Estevez/Pearl Jam in 94/95.
It is a public access show from Perth Amboy NJ with a bunch of steroid freaks in bum equipment sweat suits. Hysterical stuff.
This is the Sandler/Spade/Jay Mohr/Farley era.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
my bad, replied to something that wasn’t for me. I should just pack it in, I think I’m done for the day.
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
Who do these arrogant nutjobs think they are?
Jamie McCourt wanted to “renege” on an agreement that made the Dodgers her husband’s personal property because that would have limited her effectiveness to pursue potential runs for public office, perhaps for mayor of Los Angeles, governor of California or president of the United States.
Part of what led to the divorce was her hiring of a personal handler to help her become the next Hillary Clinton. Personally, I still rank her hiring of a Rasputin like mystic to help cleance the team’s karma is my favorite full on whacky Dodgers event of the whole McCourt tenure. From the looks of it, this whole mess couldn’t have happened to a more deserving couple.
And yet Bud Selig could have avoided the whole thing if he took the highest bid, but that guy was paying all cash and full up on dollars so could have spent money to make the dodgers a jewel of baseball, and bud couldn’t have that
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Why wasn’t the highest bid accepted?
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 6:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Old boys network with baseball ownership and Selig does not want a Mark Cuban type owner who throws money around and makes the rest of the owners look cheap by busting slot, etc. (Yankees excepted, of course)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Because he’s #37 on this list
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/54/rich-list-09_The-400-Richest-Americans_Rank_2.html
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The ‘evil’ free spending cuban is 139 on that list
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW – the logic in such a thing just doesn’t make sense, a free spending Dodger team (spent well) that was competitive year in and year out is GREAT for baseball as a whole, a yankees dodgers world series would make fox wet themselves
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
perhaps..but if you owned a baseball team would you want to allow a competitor in who would drive up the salaries of your employees?
I believe in free market competition, I believe sports teams while some sort of ‘public trust’ are basically ‘toys’ for REALLY rich people. I don’t believe in salary caps, I don’t believe in luxury taxes.
I believe if you have revenue sharing, a guy who spends more money to draw more fans is good for everyone, especially in a city like Los Angeles
I believe Bud Selig should take more grief for this asinine nonsense going on in Los Angeles because if he had let Anschutz buy the team (highest bidder, straight cash as opposed to having to leverage himself to make the payments) NONE of this embarrassment would be going on.
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping that the adorable red-headed McCourt twins will one day set up an elaborate, dramatically ironic ruse for their parents to reconcile and put this whole unpleasantness behind them.
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL.
journey of a thousand miles, doubleh, journey of a thousand miles.
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Panic
on the streets of London or Birmingham?
by David S. Cohen on Aug 31, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you hanging lawyers for?
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought they were hanging the guy from scrubs
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is tonight the line in the sand moment for panicking?
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I, for one welcome our bat hindering overlords!
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~Thomas Jefferson
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Aug 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
Where’s the picture of Base Ba’al? I think it’s time to exorcise the demons!
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Comment from the Bob Ford article:
alwaysanotherview
They creamed SF and then Howard and Utley come back and the offense goes wicked cold? obviously not a coincidence. Reminds me of 2006 with the whole Bobby Abreu mindset.
Wow.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Wasn’t an argument so much as a string of facts and then he drops the deuce. Probably lost about 50 IQ points reading that horsecrap.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
We could have all potentially lost 50 IQ points watching the Phillies inning after inning have ABs that looked more from Koufax ’s era when the high cheese was actually called a strike.
They have absolutely no idea how to handle Kuroda. The only reason they beat him in the NLCS is because he was coming off of injury and he was totally ineffective.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Valid if the first part were true… Utley actually returned at the beginning of the San Fransisco series.
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The sad truth is that Utley and Howard don’t appear to be recovered from their injuries, and that they were really being outplayed by bench guys.
Utley post injury: 0.183 AVG/0.322 OBP/0.265 SLG
Howard post injury: 0.111 AVG / 0.135 OBP/0.111 SLG; K in 43% of PAs
for comparison….
Exxon on the season: 0.244 / 0.277 / 0.350
Gload: (somewhat of a moot point since he can’t play first while hurt) 0.279/0.333/0.486
Sweeney: (also not the best comparison b/c he played the bulk of the season in the AL) 0.254/0.318/0.430
This isn’t to say that Howard and Utley aren’t trying or that they’re “bad”. The point is, over the past 10-15 games (since their return from injury) odds are, the Phils would’ve done better to have played Valdez in place of either of them.
The point that the Phils offense has gone in the commode since their return is completely fair and accurate. Hindsight is 20/20 and those games are behind the team now and you can’t do anything about it, but it clearly suggests that neither of those guys is ready to play.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t care. I wish these arm chair psychologists types would buy a clue.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I was more arguing dates than anything else. Utley came back a the beginning of the San Francisco series, not after, and was reasonably effective during that series (maybe not up to his usual standards, but decent). I will agree that since that series, both Utley and Howard have been floundering, and that it is possible that Valdez and (to a lesser degree of certainty) Sweeney would have hit better.
I have no doubt that both are trying, and that they both really want to help this team- nowhere in any of this do I see a pair of players who do not care. In some ways I wonder if there may be signs of pressing or trying too hard from both of them. I also recognize that benching them is not really a working solution, as other than a rest day, they are not going to re-gain their hitting skills without doing it. Since the bell that brought them back up from rehab can not be unrung, that means working on it in the majors.
However, it is probably important to note that the two of them did not tank this offense by themselves. They are not the reason why the rss of the lineup has suddenly lost its ability to swing a bat. They may have the farthest to go on the road to recovery, but everyone has to get right.
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 6:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If they’re not ready but playing anyway, isn’t that mostly the fault of the coaches and trainers?
Some athletes would try to play with no arms or legs like Monty Python’s Black Knight (“it’s a mere flesh wound”) if the coaches would let them…Utley, in particular, impresses me as one of those. (Didn’t he get a pin in his broken hand (rather than let it heal naturally) a couple of seasons ago, so he could return to the lineup quicker?) If they are not ready, isn’t it the job of the coaches to sit them down (or get them rehab, or whatever)?
Part of the problem is that they need to regain their timing as hitters and that comes from seeing pitching in game situations (I am sure time in the batting cage helps, but it only does just so much.) From what I understand, once a player is activated off of the disabled lost, they can not do any more minor league rehab starts. Chase and Ryan are thus stuck doing rehab in the major leagues.
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 7:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BTW
Reading comments like these are getting me dangerously close to blowing up. The fact that this whole “Bobby Abreu mindset” is such a widely held belief (my otherwise intelligent husband believes it) is one pot of stupid, but to compare Utley and Howard, two players that just helped take this team to back-to-back WS appearances—and win won of them—to this “don’t care” mentality is just so asinine it’s causing my neurons to spontaneously combust.
Not playing up to regular standards does not equal “doesn’t care”.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
If anything, I’d say it’s the opposite — both guys rushed back before they were fully recovered and/or acclimated. In Utley’s case it’s not a big deal, because he’s still at least drawing walks, and Valdez was an offensive black hole anyway. Howard’s problems are magnified because Gload was actually hitting pretty well before he went down.
I can pretty much guarantee that Bobby Abreu (or Von Hayes or Mike Lieberthal or fill in the blank) care(d) a hell of a lot more about their work than the average WIP caller cares about his.
The self-image that Philadelphia fans have of being hard-working blue-collar citizens who just want to see their athletes give the same honest day’s work like they do is largely a myth in this day and age. Your average WIP caller is a lazy, stupid couch potato who steals money from his job and spends his evenings scratching his belly and eating Pringles.
This is not to lionize professional athletes or anything, as many of them are arrogant a-holes. That said, being a ballplayer, while well compensated, is actually a quite difficult, strenuous, and stressful job. One of the reasons why they party so hard is that they also work very hard. You get no vacation during the season, very few days off, there’s constant travel. Your career can end at any moment, and many guys only have offseasons in name only, what with winter leagues and such. And even the compensation, while generous, isn’t nearly as generous as many people think it is. The top 10% get paid huge salaries, but your median bench player really doesn’t make very much over the course of his career.
Eric Bruntlett was paid $2.4 million dollars over the course of his career. I’d define him as a sub-median bench player. Your definition of “very much” might need to be recalibrated.
Well, figuring the average American Citizen makes in the neighborhood of 50K, it’s a pretty damned good living… if you can stay in the majors.
But the average citizen makes $50k until he/she decides to retire at 65 or 70. Your average ballplayer is lucky if his career lasts past the age of 32. That’s a big discrepancy and part of the reason why they need to make so much up front (and get reputable people to manage said money).
Those players that invested in several corporate arenas tied to Wall Street watched a lot of their hard-earned money go down the toilet.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
And that’s the thing: most athletes aren’t well-known for their intellects (I’m trying to be nice here). So, unless they are good in front of the camera, they need to invest wisely (Lenny, I’m looking at you) in a company or companies that can sustain them going forward. There are a lot of piranhas out there who just want to suck them dry and don’t care at all about them as people. I’m not saying “boo, hoo rich people,” because I wish I had their problems, but there aren’t many people you can really trust once you become a star.
Look at Tiger Woods. Now, I’m not saying the guy didn’t make his own bed, but the people he surrounded himself with who were supposed to take care of him didn’t do ANYTHING to help the guy out once Rome started burning. They just stood by and fiddled more or less.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I agree, but if those same idiots hadn’t been lucky enough to have a strong right arm and good hand eye coordination, they’d make 30K a year picking up trash cans or working a punch press like most other people. There’s nothing that prevents them from doing those jobs after retirement, and they’ve been lucky enough to make significant money while they were able. If they choose to fritter away their money on nonsense, they probably would be in the same boat with or without the athletic talent. That’s all I’m saying.
Lucky and hard working, I’d say. It’s tough to come back down to doing regular, every day work when you’ve been to the top of the mountain. You don’t see CEO’s who’ve watched their business go bust bussing tables. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying it’s right; but reality often sucks.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
We’re talking average players here, not stars. I’m sure it may be a bit of a shock to Miguel Cairo to go get a 9-5 job when his career is over, but he could. Plus, I think a lot of the middle of the road pros are aware they’re one bad game away from looking for a new line of work.
To get back on point, I’m only arguing, that 2.4 Million over 7 years or whatever is a lot of money, when you can go on to make money in a regular job after playing, which I think most players do anyway.
How the hell did I end up arguing Bilzo’s side of things all of a sudden.
Median income in the Philadelphia area is about $50,000 per year, and the average person works for about 40-50 years. So $2.4 million doesn’t put you any higher than the median.
Of course, a ballplayer can find another job after he retires and supplement that income. But this does not alter my point, which is that a typical ballplayer’s salary is not enough, by itself, to set oneself up for life.
This is especially the case when you consider that Bruntlett, as much as he sucked, is not an average professional ballplayer. To the contrary, he is actually a very successful professional. First of all, he made the majors, which by itself puts him way ahead of the vast majority of his peers. And he stayed there long enough to make it to his arb years, which puts him ahead of even more of his peers.
Baseball isn't that strenuous. Anyone but the catcher can cry me a wussy river.
2 man deck crew, first carpentry gig in VA.
4-8 holes, 12in. in diameter by 24in deep, belled out at the bottom 18 in. No augur because it took less time to dig with post hole diggers (12 lbs) and digging bar (17lbs.) than it did to dig out the augur bit when it would inevitably get stuck in the red clay of VA’s soil.
Average pressure treated lumber haul from street to back of house [Add 10 to 15 lbs to given weights for water]
30 to 40 pieces of 2in x 6in x 10, 12, 14, or 16ft. weighing in lbs., a piece [32, 38, 44, 51].
15 to 25 pieces of 2 × 8 × 10, 12 @ [44,53] lbs.
6 to 10 pieces of 2×8×10,12,14, or 16 @ [55, 66, 77, 88] lbs.
4 to 8 pieces of 6inx6in x10ft @ [81 to 100] lbs.
2 pieces of 2×12×12 @ 79 lbs.
2 packets of 2×2×4ft pickets, 40 pickets a pack each @ 2.25 lbs = 100lbs
4 pieces of 2×4×10,12,14,16 @ [13, 16, 19, 21] lbs.
4 80lbs bags of conctrete per hole to be hauled from street to back of house = [1280 to 2560] lbs
This is all done by 1 person (i was an apprentice so that’d be me) in 1 to 1 1/2 days. In humid ass VA heat. Then there was the building the deck part.
Ha, can I use that as a future signature quote? It’s fantastic.
Philadelphia fans, like many fans across the nation, are deluded. I don’t know if it’s the egalitarian thing we talked about before or if it’s “tall poppy syndrome” or what, but Philly fans are always way too concerned with how much money athletes make. Now professional athletes don’t cure cancer or anything like that, but my guess is that what they do is 100x more important that the crap I do that just lines corporate fatcats pockets with even bigger profits.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Aww, I’m flattered. All yours if you want it.
It really is pretty silly that people moan and groan about pro athlete salaries. Pro athletes, like most entertainers, work pretty hard and make people’s lives better in the process. In the grand scheme of things, they look much better than your dilettantes with inherited wealth, or even the large chunk of MBAs on Wall Street who do nothing beneficial for society, all of whom are much richer than your average ballplayer.
Don’t our opponents count- their lives (or at least their chances of winning) are improved when they let him play against the Phillies!
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but he’s actually a pretty bad player when he’s not facing the Phils, so he’ll make your life worse by dragging your favorite team down the other 95% of the games.
I guess if you hate both the Phillies and whatever team Rod Barajas is currently on, then he’s improving your quality of life, though.
If someone hits him in the head with a bat, a la Chooch from earlier this year, that might improve my quality of life.
I’d like to clarify, despite my earlier comment, I’m not upset about how much money athletes get paid. They get paid a lot, and I’m fine with that. It’s a niche job, they’re good at it. Obviously they deserve that pay, because the economics dictate that the owners make money while paying them exorbitant salaries. The market dictates their pay. If nobody watched baseball, they’d make diddly, and then that’d be what they deserved to be paid.
I’m not going to sugar coat the fact that they make gobs of money, even the Eric Bruntletts of the world. Maybe he did only make $2.4 million, but he did it in 5-6 years time at the major league level, and if he’s got a head on his shoulders and doesn’t live out of his means and try to start a classic car collection and buy every member of his family a restaurant, he should be good to go, even if he just shoves it in a bank and collects 2% interest.
It seems you may have lost the thread of this conversation several posts back. Nobody here is saying that ballplayers aren’t paid well. In fact, I said that they were in my very first comment. My point was that (1) they are paid much less generously than most people perceive them to be paid, and (2) they are, generally speaking, not appropriate targets of resentment because they work hard for their income and provide a good service in keeping us entertained. The point is not that we should feel bad for ballplayers, but that we should not resent them either, and we certainly have no right to attack them for not trying hard enough.
The fact that the market sets a person’s salary is not, in and of itself, a valid defense of that salary. The market is f’d up in a lot of ways, and some people really do make indefensible salaries. But ballplayer salaries are not that high and are not indefensible.
I was clarifying my earlier commentary about Bruntlett being well paid and your definition being a bit off kilter. I could see how somebody would put words in my mouth and say I thought they were overpaid. I wanted to state my position before it got stated for me.
Additionally…
I don’t get why you need to start so many posts with comments along the lines of
"It seems you may have lost the thread of this conversation several posts back. "
You’re assumption that every statement is from an idiot that wants to argue with you is trite.
I used to think the “Blue Collar” thing was odd, since so many financial, insurance and health care companies are based downtown. It’s not like Philly is the Detroit or Pittsburgh of the 1960’s or Cleveland or another Rust Belt city. It just always seemed an odd fit with Philly, for me.
I should say that I’m all for egalitarianism. But if you’re going to be egalitarian, you might as well aim your weapon at the right targets. Pro athletes ain’t it.
EXACTLY! Why is it that the athletes are the targets and not the owners who pocket the most money at the end of the day? People point fingers at Hanley Ramirez but not the greedy/cheap Marlins’ ownership who wants 80% of their stadium paid for by taxpayers?
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Hanley signed the deal the Marlins were willing to give him. If they offered me a gazillion dollars to play shortstop, I’d take it too.
So you agree with me? What I’m saying is the Marlins finally payed a player what he was worth instead of pocketing all the money they make through revenue sharing and other avenues and simply trading that player before he reaches end of arb.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I’m saying you lay blame at owners for players salaries if it bugs you. Don’t fault the guy cashing the paycheck, get mad at the guy writing it.
But then again…I still feel athletes are paid appropriately, based upon the market dictating their salary. While it’s suggested that Howard’s salary is crazy and overpaid based on production, fact is, the Phillies are still going to make money and aren’t going to go in the toilet (ie bankrupt) because of those salaries. If the Marlins were losing money by paying Rarmirez what they did, they’d either:
A) stop doing it or…
B) go bankrupt
Doesn’t bug me at all. And you’re right—it boils down to ownership every time.
I also think they are paid appropriately—have this argument about hockey players all the time and how they are, for the most part, underpaid, so when one finally gets paid what he’s worth, he sticks out.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Philly is pretty blue collar. Open the a phone book in the DC Metropolitan area and look for machine shops. You probably find 4 and most of those are in Baltimore.By the time I left the area the one shop in Alexandria had closed. It all tech. and government. When I moved back to this area I opened In the phone book that covers the Warmister area and there are 66 machine shops listed. That ’s a pretty small area with a high percentage of machine shops relative to the population.
Including my Dad’s Machine Shop. How about that? I’m not saying there isn’t a large Blue Collar element to the Philly area, I’m just saying it’s not as big as it is in other US cities (frankly, NYC is every bit as blue collar as Philly), I just think it gets overblown and romanticized a bit by Philly fans.
I’ve read that NYC’s manufacturing base is just about gone other than chocolate. Per capita they may have more people invovled in the service end of trades like construction. As to the romantizing the blue collar thing, I wouldn’t know, haven’t been here as an adult to long to notice. (I left when I was young). I would say that culturally we’re more homogenous than NYC so perhaps that enables people to easily identify the city’s character. When a place is more transient it is more difficult to succintly describe the character of a city.
By the way what type of machining does your dad do? There’s a tradition of it in my family but lived in DC where you could only get a machinist apprenticeship thru a) the union and without a big demand for the work , unions weren’t pro-active about taking on new people, b) dumb luck like a buddy of mine who got the job from his neighbor who was an engineer for a company that designed aerospace protoypes. Actually my Uncle Frank was a tool maker who worked on some sighting mechanisms for bombers and artillery during WW 2, I have all his old books from when he was an apprentice but my cousin gave away alot of his old measuring tools when he died…I was pissed.
that should say
There’s a tradition of it in my family but I lived in DC where you could only get a machinist apprenticeship….
My family are all born and raised in Philly. Only a few moved.
Me, too
But the comments didn’t let me down. They must have taken precious time out of their WIP calling schedule to deposit those golden nuggets.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
What else were they supposed to do while on hold?
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 4:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am still trying to figure out the logic Charlie was using when he introduced Brown into the game as a PH thus automatically bringing Kuo into the game?
Kuroda tiring. Pitcher’s spot, 2 RISP. Need a lefty bat who can either hit for power OR run real fast to first. Gload’s on the DL. Hmm….Valdez or Schneider….nope. Sweeney – righty, save for counter-move.
That part’s easy. Now PH for Brown is another matter, except for the fact that Chollie lurves him some hot handed batters. But I’m not sold that Brown’s L/R splits are all that pronounced (they did exist in AAA over 100+ PAs, but not so much at lower levels with higher sample sizes), so given that the matchup is a complete unknown, why not give it a whirl?
You could counter-argue: but it was a high-pressure spot! Well, less so after Vic’s hit, and what’s the worst he could have done, NOT GET A HIT? The dadgum professional hitters did that all night.
Given that they Phils made their decision to keep Brown up with the club before they knew FOR SURE that Utley and Howard would rush back onto the roster, his lack of playing time/PAs is somewhat understandable and shouldn’t be totally hindsighted. But given what transpired, the Phillies jump started an arb clock for not much in the way of p/t and, worse, by sitting him made him rustier than if they were to bring him up tomorrow.
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Charlie was never going to let Dom face Kuo. So my point is just bring Sweeney in to PH. If charlie couldnt figure out that Torre was going to Kuo then he is clueless.
If he just has Sweeney enter as the PH, Torre may or may not have brought in Kuo. If he leaves him in then I get the match up I prefer (as Kuo is the last guy on that staff I want to face). Also Sweeney hits righties better than lefties this year (and for his career). This year righties hit Kuroda better than Lefties. If he brings Kuo in, then Brown is not wasted if the game happens to go extra innings.
agree, hadn’t looked at it that way. Too used to Chollie ThotWavz.
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 31, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Very good points. After last week’s 16 inning game, one would think Manuel would be less likely to burn a pinch hitter in attempt to change the pitcher (particularly with Kuo warmed up in the pen). 99 times out of a hundred it makes no difference in the end, but every once in a while it does.
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone see this?
Was on 700 Level
Woo, boy. I’m not much of a cryer (I know you’re thinking “no way”), but this got even me. Probably because I lost my own mother when I was young and wished there had been something like this 30-something years ago.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
sure did
Absolutely heartbreaking, but also underscores just how solid a human being Jamie Moyer is.
Yes, I, too, wept like some… grandmother.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
For me it was the girl who had to tell her little sister about their dead dad. OOF.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
Awww
You’re making me blush.
I didn’t even curse once (unless crap counts). I wanted to. Oh, did I ever want to.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Crap is a brash word, but not profanity… Great job today!
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 5:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
today's two-minute hate
Well this is amusing. Enjoy, everyone!
http://www.talkingchop.com/2010/8/31/1661273/atlanta-has-the-worst-baseball
Whatever
Rationalization. They are pissed that people keep bringing up how terrible they are because they don’t sell out games when they are in first place yet they say things like: “I’d rather play for 15k Braves fans than 45k Phillies fans,” which indicates they are just as quick to throw stone memes as any Phillies fan. “Everyone knows Phillies fans are the worst battery-throwing, upchucking, taser-inducing vile fans on the planet.”
Bite me, hypocrites. Everyone has a rep they have to live with; this is yours. Deal with it.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I just liked the fact that the argument was, “We’re not really the worst, we’re in 14th place!”
This sort of reminded me of the old story of the congressman who was named by some organization as the dumbest member of the House of Representatives, and then called a press conference to deny it.
Actually...
the argument is just that the reputation is unwarranted, and some places which are supposedly “great baseball towns”, like Cincinnati, actually do not support their team as well as we do.
But, technically, you are correct. I am saying we are not the worst. I never wanted to claim we are the best. We are talking about attendance here, though. Not the team.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
And
I believe Philly’s rep as “worst fans in the world” is also unwarranted. Just because one or two fans in a group of 45k do stupid things doesn’t mean the whole fanbase should be blamed.
Again, as I said above, it’s an unfortunate rep that we have to live with, and you have an unwarranted one as well…although to be fair, no Phillies fan will ever understand not selling out playoff games. It’s just never gonna happen.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I believe Philly’s rep as "worst fans in the world" is also unwarranted.
Based on isolated incidents (some over 4 decades ago) mostly at football games
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I don’t think Atlanta has a reputation of being the worst baseball town in America. Miami and Tampa certainly have far worse reputations, for instance. Pittsburgh. Washington. Probably others I’m forgetting.
When people say “The Braves have the worst fan base,” the intent is not for that statement to be taken literally. They’re saying “worst” in the same sense in which a person might say, “Man, the Filet-O-Fish at McDonald’s is the worst!” Not that it’s literally the worst food on earth, but just that it’s bad.
Also, trash talk is supposed to be hyperbolic. That’s sort of the point. It would be one thing if someone were to write an essay on Baseball Prospectus concluding that Atlanta had the worst fans based on statistical evidence. But you shouldn’t take it so personally or literally when some random commenter makes the same statement in an offhand fashion on a blog.
All that being said, you have to admit that Atlanta’s fan base for baseball is not particularly strong. Yes, you outdraw Cincinnati, but you also have a lot more people than Cincinnati does. You can’t just look at raw attendance, you also have to consider attendance per capita. The Braves really ought to be drawing many more people than they are right now, and I think it is understandable for fans of other teams to be appalled that they are not. If anything, I would think that “real” Braves fans such as yourself would join us in that sentiment all the more, rather than disputing it.
Atlanta has a reputation as a transient town. More people ‘settle’ there than are raised there and already have sports allegiances.
Do Rays fans whine about this so much when theere are more red sox fans at the top when the red sox show up to town?
Did anyone hear how many CHEERS went up when the no hitter was broken up, those weren’t dodger fans.
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You make very good points.
I guess I’m just too sensitive and take things too literally, and since I try to avoid being too hyperbolic, I sometimes don’t appreciate it fully in others.
I agree that the Braves should probably be drawing a little better, but I understand the huge number of factors that contribute to the lower weekday attendance. Weekend crowds are great, because lots of the fanbase, which is spread all over the southeast (and really the entire country) come into town for the weekend.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Though I don’t believe their attendance indicates that Atlanta has the worst fans, their comments in the attached thread doesn’t exactly do anything to dispel the notion either.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’ll take your word for it, I don’t visit their site.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Only did during the WS, and I promise you I’ll never do it again. As a general rule, I find avoiding reading OTT (other team’s threads) is a good practice. It only serves to make you mad because EVERY fanbase has fans that only serve to trash the other teams and make ignorant statements.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
As a general rule I agree, it’s not worth visiting OTT. Now I think it is every fans right to bash other teams if they so decide to do so. If they want to make outlandish claims then expect to get into a war with that teams fans, so be it. I have no issue with that. I welcome fans of other teams if they want to have real discussions but I have never understood fans need to make general and usually ignorant and arrogant statements about teams and their fans. Like you said, every fanbase has a rep, some good, some bad but don’t bash the people who truly didn’t do anything wrong.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I only apply that rule to division rivals/playoff opponents/other teams I hate, and it geos without saying TC and PA are in that category. I have no issue with checking out the sites of teams I am neutral about; McC is always hilarious, and I enjoy a few other non-Philadelphia sites.
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
by alcatraz0109 on Aug 31, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually agree with all of you. There’s no value to visiting OTT, and the overall quality of internet comments is not very high among any team’s fan base. There are certainly some Phillies blogs out there (not this one, of course) that other teams’ fans could point to and say “Look at the dumb Phillies fans!” So offensive material from another team’s blog is not to be taken seriously. It’s just fun is all. I mean, this is pennant race season! It makes things a little more dramatic to develop a little hostility toward the enemy. But YMMV.
I’ve posted on other teams threads periodically, for a change of scenery, including Talking Chop and Purple Row most recently.
As long as you out yourself as the enemy, give honest (ie non-homerish) assessment, and play nice, it’s usually a pretty entertaining event and most of the enemies are happy to accept you into their home, regardless of the outcome. Sure there’s a troll here and there, but usually his own kind turn on him if you just ignore him.
If you’re hoping that a blog during a baseball game is going to be a mensa meeting, you’re really setting yourself up to be disappointed. It’s a baseball GAME. Enjoy it for what it is, in the company of others doing the same.
I actually have found some of then (Pinstripe Alley, Purple Row, Red Reporter) kind of interesting. I realize that there are idiots everywhere, and that just as w have opposing players we do not like, the same is true everywhere. I visit OTT only as a fly on the wall, never joining or making my presence known in large part because of trolls that visit here, and how they come off— I do not want Phillies phans to get any worse of a reputation because of something I say.
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 8:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Productive out at least.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
more productive outs
Depending on the mets in a playoff run is like depending on American Idol to produce talent
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Kelly Clarkson... Carrie Underwood
Proof that every once in a while even American Idol can produce talent.
by dannijd on Aug 31, 2010 8:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Christina Augilera has an outstanding singing voice for pop music
Kelly Clarkson has auto tune
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Clarkson isn’t that bad; Jennifer Hudson made it after she was on American Idol (but didn’t win). Most of the also-rans are better than the eventual winner.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
That’s a valid point, and I agree with it (also, country singers on idol tend to do better when they go solo as well I’ve noticed)
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Other than Underwood, who are you thinking of? Pickeler (sp?) has faded pretty quickly, hasn’t she? and she’s the only one I can think of.
Justin Guarini (I saw his name in movie credits the other day)
He cut his hair it seems
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Josh Gracin was on American Idol as well
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hudson’s voice is tremendous. Aguilera and Clarkson are basically on the same level, but Hudson blows them both away.
Did you see her in “Dreamgirls”? The movie was awful—the show is much better—but she killed that song. Masterful.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Yes, but come on, at least it’s better than any movie version of the musical of the movie
And Rent was an abomination and Chris Columbus should burn in a special cricle of hell if one wasn’t already reserved for his horrible contribution to film making before then.
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, yes. I liked “Chicago,” though. It’s much better than the show. I was hoping “Nine” would be same. Nostsomuch.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Musicals belong on stange, but what Columbus did to REnt was atrocious.
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But I don’t mind if they take a less than stellar stage show and try to make it into a movie. Like I said, I like what they did with “Chicago”. I hated “Nine” the musical, so was hoping it would be a better movie.
“Rent” is a good show and didn’t need the movie treatment. They tried to use most of the original cast, too, and it just didn’t work on any level.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I’ve never seen Chicago but I’m pretty sure it’s a long running show with an excellent reputation of ‘stellarness’ that’s been revived multiple times, if you like Bob Fosse that is
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve tried to like it—have seen it in two runs on Broadway—it’s just not that good. “Cats” ran a long time, too, and it sucks. Sometimes lots of people are wrong.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Was it better than cats? Would you see it again and again?
I want Dr Horrible to get a stage version
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked Chicago, which is odd because as a rule I loathe musicals.
I’m actually permanently blind and deaf after stabbing out my eyes and ears while watching Rent.
The film or the stage production?
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Chicago. Cats. Rent. You call these musicals?
Why, in my day, they knew how to make musicals (and I’m not talking about the Rogers and Hammerstein crap). I mean stuff like The Music Man, A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum, West Freakin-Side Story.
These were great plays and great films.
Nine. Give me a break.
I’ve seen Forum, forum is awesome, so is west side story, better than the original source material in my mind.
Never made it through The Music Man
Guys and Dolls is excellent
Your new nick name is buzz
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
We could be friends. I absolutely hate R&H. I like a lot of older musicals, too, but like quite a few of the newer ones. Even though “Les Miserables” is hugely popular, it is a good show and far better than reading that 1,000+ page book.
I should note that when I performed all through school and in college, I only did musicals, so I’m a full-on theatre nerd.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
The man who wrote Gremlins, one of the greatest Christmas movies of all time? Perish the thought.
by phillyinportland on Sep 3, 2010 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Augilera has a tremendous voice but she feels the need to put every chop and style into every song. Puts the voice over the song. Nonetheless, girl has some serious pipes.
Well I was just commenting on the ‘tremendous’ voice comment, Auiglera has a tremendous voice (don’t believe me? Go check out the ‘credits’ song for Mulan), Mariah Carey, nuts, but a tremendous voice, Whitney Houstone, tremendous voice
Clarkson live, not tremendous
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Whitney Houston USED to have a tremendous voice before all the drugs. Have you heard her now? It just hurts to listen to her and think of all that talent she threw away on freakin Bobby Brown. Ugh.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I haven’t heard her live since the 88 (88?) superbowl
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Ain’t no other man is a nice blend of pop and 40stype stuff…when she had her kid she kind of mellowed out, for like an album, then went slut crazy again
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I just popped my itunes onto random – sometimes it’s a fine mix – while i study descriptive statistics – blech
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never heard her sing live, so I’ll reserve judgement on that. Not saying she doesn’t have a good voice, but with the way so much pop-music is ‘created’ today, I’m hesitant to give any singer credit for their voice unless I’ve heard in a live version that I can assume wasn’t ‘digitally mastered’
I’ve heard her—it’s good and I’m tough on singers. I’m not big on Underwood after seeing her live a few times. I think he voice is very small. It’s probably better in a small, intimate setting, but I’m guessing from the sounds of her records she’s very much digitally altered.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
my personal fave (wrt voice beauty) is Alison Krauss. If that woman had a slightly more attractive face, she’d have way more followers than the likes of Mariah, Janet, Shania, etc….
Her music not sucking would help, I lost so much respect for Robert Plant
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I appreciate bluegrass, I know the world banjo champion (i think 78 or 79), I just hate alison krauss music :)
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
A TRIBUTE to american idol, a minor annoyance that has lasted way too long
by SportingFanaticism on Sep 1, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, said it before but it bears repeating—relying on the Mets to help at all in this race is an exercise in futility.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I’m more depending on the braves home record to revert to something that’s, you know, believable
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
giving the two runs back in the bttom half is bad to jesus it’s just irritating
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And then some…it’s now 4-2, Braves. The Mets really are gutless turds.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Gutless or just, you know, playing out the string, if the phillies were 5 games up we wouldn’t even care :)
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
“It’s not a market where you can go young. You have to bring in players.”
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
So keep bringing in old, broken down guys and this is what you get, folks.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
I think it’s funny cause guys like Mariano, Jeter, Posada, Cano, etc…the yankees run in the early 2000s was very ‘home grown’
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The braves got SEVEN in the bottom half after the mets took a 2-1 lead?
Seriously, Manuel and Minaya BOTH have to be canned after this year, right?
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:06 PM EDT reply actions
You would think so—didn’t I read a few weeks ago about some Mets fans having a protest?
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
Nah, Snookie and The Situation showed up at a game with gaga and the fans went hysterical with joy to their heros
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m at the point where USA and Glee reruns really are a better options if the online course system i have to use for my class is down for long :)
EIther that or Hex & The City
by SportingFanaticism on Aug 31, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions

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