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So Just How Bad Have The Injuries Been?

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I thought it would be interesting to try to quantify exactly how much the Phillies have been impacted by injuries this year. I didn't have too much time to do this and I'm not Mr. Statman compared to some of you, but here's a very rough calculation. I limited my analysis to position players for the time being. The six members of the Phillies original starting eight who have gone on the DL this year have been inactive for the following numbers of games.

Rollins = 4/13-5/17 & 5/22-6/22 = 55 G
Ruiz = 6/22-7/10 = 18 G
Polanco = 6/26-7/17 = 18 G
Utley = 6/29-est. 8/31 = approx. 57 G
Victorino = 7/28-est. 8/14 = approx. 15 G
Howard = 8/2-est. 8/19 = approx. 15 G

Multiply those figures by the WAR/G that each guy has posted when active this year, and you get:

Rollins = 55 G missed x 1.5 WAR / 50 G active = 1.65 WAR missed
Ruiz = 18 G missed x 1.8 WAR / 87 G active = 0.37 WAR missed
Polanco = 18 G missed x 2.8 WAR / 87 G active = 0.58 WAR missed
Utley = 57 G missed x 3.3 WAR / 74 G active = 2.54 WAR missed
Victorino = 15 G missed x 1.4 WAR / 100 G active  = 0.21 WAR missed
Howard = 15 G missed x 1.9 WAR / 105 G active = 0.27 WAR missed

   

Star-divide

That totals 5.62 WAR.  Of course, this doesn't include the many injuries that the Phillies' pitching staff also suffered this year (Blanton, Happ, Moyer, Lidge, Madson, Romero, Durbin). It's also pretty imprecise, because it doesn't account for players who were hampered by injuries while they were active.

I think pure WAR is the correct metric to use here, not the difference between each guy's WAR and his replacement's WAR. What I'm trying to measure here is misfortune. The quality of a player's replacement is not primarily a function of luck. If we had a great backup 2B ready to step in for Utley, the impact of his injury would have been greatly mitigated, but it would not have changed the metaphysical badness (for lack of a better term) of our fortune. It would just mean that the team was well-prepared for the contingency of an injury, and good on them.

It's hard to put these numbers in any sort of context, so I tried comparing them to the 2009 Mets, who went through one of the more memorable injury-plagued seasons that any team has experienced in recent years. Here's what I came up with (based on their opening-day starting eight):

Brian Schneider = 4/17-5/30 = 38 G
Carlos Delgado = 5/16-end = 126 G
Luis Castillo = did not go on DL
David Wright = 8/17-9/1 = 14 G
Jose Reyes = 5/26-end = 78 G
Daniel Murphy = did not go on DL
Carlos Beltran = 6/22-9/8 = 70 G
Ryan Church = 5/26-6/7 = 10 G

And the WARs that were lost during those games:

Brian Schneider = 38 G missed x 0.3 WAR / 124 G active = 0.09 WAR missed
Carlos Delgado = 126 G missed x 0.6 WAR / 36 G active = 2.10 WAR missed
David Wright = 14 G missed x 3.4 WAR / 148 G active = 0.32 WAR missed
Jose Reyes = 78 117 G missed x 0.8 WAR / 84 45 G active = 0.74 2.08 WAR missed
Carlos Beltran = 70 G missed x 3.1 WAR / 92 G active = 2.36 WAR missed
Ryan Church = 10 G missed x 0.6 WAR / 152 G active = 0.04 WAR missed

Which totals 5.65 6.99 WAR. So, even if the Phillies' starting eight suffer no further injuries for the remainder of the season, they will end the year having been impacted by injuries this year every bit as much as the Mets' starting eight were last year within 1.4 WAR of how much the Mets' starting eight were impacted last year. (I think the Mets' pitching staff had more injuries than the Phillies' staff has had this year though.)

Of course, the difference is that the Phillies are only three games out of first place and will likely stay in contention for the rest of the season even in spite of their current injuries, while the 2009 Mets went 70-92. It just goes to show you that our team is really good this year.

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I wrote this post yesterday, so some of those WARs might be slightly off now.

I understand this is a pretty crude analysis, so if any of you have time to add some more nuance to it in the comments, that would be great.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Are you comparing WAR for the Mets up to 100 games in the 2009 season with the first 100+ games of the Phillies 2010 season?

Or is the WAR comparison between the Mets entire 2009 season with the first 100+ games of the Phillies 2010 season?

by Get A Grip on Aug 4, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is WAR for the entire 2009 Mets season, vs. projected WAR for the entire Phillies season. The projection is based on my assumption that there the Phillies will suffer no further injuries this year, and that the guys who are currently injured come back on the dates that I estimate in the post.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nicely done examination on the loss of WAR between the two teams. As a sidenote to your analysis, it would be interesting to compare the replacement players WAR between the 2009 Mets and the 2010 Phillies. Which could give a better glimpse into the positional depth each team had in their respective injury plagued season.

by Get A Grip on Aug 4, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 games out of first

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Its amazing the Phillies have managed to stay 2 games behind with these injuries

the Utley injury has killed them the most

"Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier, the cigars taste better. The trees are greener."

by NJ Champ on Aug 4, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

They havn’t realy stayed 2 games back, they fell to somthing like 7.5 / 8 games back at one point then 8 straight wins , and some sub 500 ball from ATL, Philly is right back in it.

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats true

getting rid of the hitting coach seems to have really sparked them

"Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier, the cigars taste better. The trees are greener."

by NJ Champ on Aug 4, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was all milts fault of course

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 4, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

post hoc ergo…

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 4, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just corrected some careless mathematical errors. The difference between the two is actually about 1.37 WAR, not 0.03 WAR. This assumes, of course, that my estimates of when Utley, Howard, and Victorino will come back turn out to be accurate.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

2 games back not 3

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is not at all scientific, but I thought Schieder’s comments sort of dovetailed with your post. He was questioned last night as to similarities between the 2009 Mets team he was on and this years Phillies team in terms of injuries: FWIW, he responded:

“No,” Schneider said, “because we’re winning.” Schneider said the attitudes of the two teams are night and day. He has been impressed with the way the Phillies have dealt with the rash of injuries in 2010….

“It was essentially miserable,” Schneider said [speaking of the Mets]…

“Guys have picked up slack,” Schneider said, “and we’re right in the thick of it.”

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20100804_Phillies_Notes__Schneider_likes_Phils__mettle.html

by Boundforbeach on Aug 4, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

so, schneider is a curse?

Kolb - a heavy medieval war club with a spiked or flanged metal head, used to crush armor - Wikipedia of course
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
RIP JJ

by sports00fan00 on Aug 4, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Incidentally, whichever of you is Mr. Statman should say so through song as such: http://vimeo.com/2119908

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Mets

They lost Santana for the last 5 weeks or so of the season. JJ Putz missed almost the whole season. I don’t know offhand which other pitchers missed significant time.

Meanwhile, the Phillies were without Blanton for about a month, and may not have Moyer for the rest of the season. In the bullpen Madson might be the closest comp to Putz, and he was out for what, about six weeks? It certainly seems like the Mets pitching injuries were worse. (Moyer will probably miss a lot more time than did Santana, but he’s also a lot closer to replacement level, especially if you look at peripherals).

by phatj on Aug 4, 2010 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Lidge started off the season on the DL

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Given the quality of his pitching before and since, I’d say this was a net gain for the Phillies

by phatj on Aug 4, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

pitchers injuries

madson actually missed more like 9 weeks (out from april 29-july7)
durbin missed over 3 weeks
and happ only made 3 starts for us, so he essentially missed half of the season for us.

I’d say our pitching has been dinged just as bad as the Mets were last season

by BobWalk on Aug 4, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Santana went on the DL on August 21, so he missed 41 of the 162 games. He had 2.8 WAR last year, so that would project out to a lost WAR of 0.95.

Here are the other pitchers who were DL’d for them last year.

Tim Redding 4/5-5/18
Billy Wagner 4/5-8/20
Oliver Perez 5/3-7/8, 8/26-end
J.J. Putz 6/5-end
Fernando Nieve 7/20-end
John Maine 6/7-9/13
Jon Niese 8/6-end

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

oliver perez on the dl was more of a blessing

Kolb - a heavy medieval war club with a spiked or flanged metal head, used to crush armor - Wikipedia of course
I've been waiting my whole life for an Eagles Championship
RIP JJ

by sports00fan00 on Aug 4, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, their pitching injuries were worse. I don’t have time to run a calculation though. The lineup part took long enough by itself.

One of the reasons why this analysis is so crude is that it doesn’t account for the extent to which an injury is really “bad luck.” For instance, how unlucky is it when John Maine misses half a season? The guy gets hurt all the time. And so forth. But it would be exceedingly difficult to quantify that.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Happ

also missed the 2-1/2 months… that was a fairly significant blow to the staff.

by PSUcup1 on Aug 4, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Madson missed two months.

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 1:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The more I look at this artical

The more I think “Man if this team gets healthy (assuming there is no rust) they are gona be scary”. With the pitching rotation that the Phillies can throw out may be the best in baseball and that by it’s self is what they have been living and dieing off of. If you rember Utley was in a bit of a funk just before he exploded out of just before his injury.

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m really hoping that we get “awesome” Chase back instead of “pretty good” Chase.

by Bilzo on Aug 4, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you would have to think even after he returns, it will take him some time to get his timing back and reacclimate himself. I wonder if he’ll play a game or two in the minors before returning…

by Boundforbeach on Aug 4, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chase in a funk > Valdez on fire.

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even he admitted that he would need rehab starts, but I think that may have been factored in in the amount of time missed. Utley had said that he should be able to get back to baseball activities about a week after the brace comes off (late next week or early the following week). Manuel also mentioned this, and said that Utley will be brought back only when he was ready.

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 1:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is he allowed to roid up while he’s doing rehab?

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO!!!!!!

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

maybe he will come back better than before he went on the DL. Obviously it will take a bit to get his timing back but he should be rested and ready to go. Chase seems to wear down a bit as the season prolongs. He really struggled last year in the NLCS and then tore it up in the WS… with a week off in between. So maybe it will help him down the stretch… lets all pray it does!!

by PSUcup1 on Aug 4, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

What sucks is that Dobbs and Castro never went on the DL. If they had, we could include their days missed x their (likely) -WAR values to counteract some of this.

by Bilzo on Aug 4, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

How does that help— they are not regulars?

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

They were for about a month there.

by Cormican on Aug 4, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

go apply your intelligent logic elsewhere. phlbbt.

by Bilzo on Aug 4, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

War huh? WHat is it good for?

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 4, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Wins above replacement, say it again. Good god, uh, War.

by Cormican on Aug 4, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have a very dumb question i’m going to ask

Is WAR and WARP the same thing (The p stands for player I’m assuming?)

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 4, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought WARP was a stat similar to WAR but it was done by Baseball Projection and their formula was slightly different.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 4, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always assumed semantics, but this sounds possible too.

by Cormican on Aug 4, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah they are different formulas. WAR is generally considered to be superior at this point.

by Spoilt Victorian Child on Aug 4, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bit off topic but I just saw Jason Bay’s Running into the fence face first fly ball…. he got fucked up man.

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 4, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions  

It really would be amazing if the Phils get healthy relatively soon and find a way to win this division after everything that’s happened this season. Then whenever my Met fan friends tell me how lucky the Phillies have been, flukey, etc., I can toss this right back in their face.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Aug 4, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Wild guess estimate: if the Phillies had been completely healthy this year (which is impossible, of course), they’d have about 64, 65 wins and the best record in the NL.

If they’d had an average amount of injuries this year, they’d have 61, 62 wins, which would put them slightly ahead of the Braves.

If the Mets had been completely healthy in 2009, they might have won 84 games. Maybe.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if every Met but Perez were healthy? That should get them up to at least 86.

by Cormican on Aug 4, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if we had everyone healthy AND 2008 Lidge?

by Get A Grip on Aug 4, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

We would be scary good— best record in baseball!

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 4, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Taco!

You put together the math I was trying to argue earlier this week to say that if the Phillies had a few less injuries they, not Atlanta may be leading the East.

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 2:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

For a complete analysis, you would want to account for the production of the actual replacement player. For example, let’s say Valdez has produced 0.2 WAR while filling in for Chase — that would be subtracted from the cost of Utley’s injury.

Also, ideally you would use ZiPS (or some other projection system) to project lost value, rather than just prorating their year-to-date performance.

I am not volunteering to do any of that myself, of course.

by Spoilt Victorian Child on Aug 4, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

O f course not, that would take weeks to account for games where Castro was the replacement vs games where it was Valdez vs games where it was peanuthead.

by Cormican on Aug 4, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is truly mind boggling.

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sort of. That is definitely the correct analysis for what doubleh and I were talking about above – trying to estimate how many wins the team would have had but for the injuries. But what I was trying to do in the original post was quantify the level of “misfortune” the team has experienced from the injuries. That’s a very abstract concept, but I don’t think the actual backup’s value matters for it, or at least not how I was defining it.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe our bench is not that bad?

As much as our bench/ AAAA players have been maligned by us for their failures, maybe they are not so bad if the team can be successful despite leaning on them so much!

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

injuries on the farm

Cosart shut down for the year.

The author seems to think this is bad news, but I see it as good news.

Lots of other interesting tidbits in there, injury-related and otherwise.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I was just about to do a fanshot about that. Good to see that the Phillies are taking a conservative approach with him. Best wishes to young Mr. Cosart and looking forward to seeing great things from him next year.

by dannijd on Aug 4, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on Cosart. I had a hunch that some of the chatter that he might be ready to pitch again was pre-trade talk posturing to drive up some value and/or try to signal to other teams that the injury’s not that bad. If I owned him, I’d shut him down too. Plus, with Trevor May at Lakewod for a second tour, they have enough pitching for their playoff run.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 4, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Sweeney...

…being traded to Phillies.

Jon Morosi of FoxSports says…

by phanatic's phloozies on Aug 4, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Whoa, that’s weird. For cash considerations or PTBNL.

by taco pal on Aug 4, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a twitter (MLBTR restates here

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 4, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whole Camels gets annoyed in 3…2…

by Cormican on Aug 4, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would he get annoyed. I didn’t use it as a source, hence the use of the word restate.

I know the difference and thus stated it that way. I just don’t link to twitter because more often than not i see the fat whale and hate the fat whale

by SportingFanaticism on Aug 5, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough, missed “restates”

by Cormican on Aug 5, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Taco Pal

Any way you could compare Philly’s WAR to Boston’s?

Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?

by sowhatifitisasportste on Aug 6, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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