By Numbers: Phillies 5, Braves 3
by WholeCamels on Sep 21, 2010 10:40 PM EDT
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Print20 wins.
6 - Magic number.
9 wins in a row
5 game lead
91 victories
Phillies righthander Roy Halladay became the first Phillies pitcher to win 20 games since Hall of Famer Steve Carlton accomplished the feat in 1982. Even if you don't believe in the pitcher Wins stat, it's still a pretty awesome accomplishment, and speaks to just how amazingly well Halladay has done this season. In doing so, he lowered the Phillies' magic number to claim the National League East Championship to six.
Halladay has certainly pitched better, however. He surrendered seven hits and walked two in seven innings, striking out only three and allowing three runs, including a monster first career home run to thorn-in-our-side-for-the-rest-of-the-decade Freddie Freeman.
All of the Phillies' scoring came on two plays: A huge three run home run from Jayson Werth in the bottom of the third, and a two run, two out double from Raul Ibanez in the bottom of the sixth. There were baserunners galore -- they left 12 on base -- but at this point, hey, wins are wins.
Ryan Madson and Brad Lidge, once again, closed out the game with two scoreless innings of relief.
The Phillies go for the sweep tomorrow behind Roy Oswalt.
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I love that even Roy #1’s “bad” starts are pretty damned good by any other measure. The man is a dreamboat.
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on Sep 21, 2010 10:44 PM EDT reply actions
Doc wins even when he does not have his best stuff?
I figure it is the universe paying him back for the times during the offensive slump when he pitched great, but did not get enough run support.
Some Braves fan posted on earlier thread b/c he’s too much of a pussy to post here that all Phillies fans are ugly and congrats for squeaking out 2 wins against minor league fill-ins.
Here I thought Mike Minor was a really good prospect for the Braves.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
From Cohen’s thread today:
Subject: Phillies fans are ugliest in baseballHe joined the blog tonight just to post those deep thoughts.
Watching game tonight I felt sorry for Phillies fans. Philadelphia is filled with some homely people. Nice job squeaking out wins against 2 minor league fill ins.
The best thing about Tim Tebow is his former roommate.
Well, now he’s banned so hope he enjoyed his 2 minutes of infamy.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
You know when they start attacking the looks of the fans that their team has had their butts handed to them.
by EastFallowfield on Sep 22, 2010 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta is going to be good for a long time. They have some great young/prime players I would like to see on the Phillies. The Braves fan should content himself with the fact that their team is likely to be the WC and that it will likely be good (and getting better) for a number of years. This year is likely just a preview for them.
Heyward will torture us for many years. Possibly Freeman and Hanson as well. Brian McCann is 26, so it is likely he will get a little better and continue to be good for a number of years before declining. For now, I think he’s still “blooming”.
On the other hand, the Phillies have likely peaked, probably in 2008 (multi-season view here) and the Braves are getting better. Unless the Phillies continue to reload (adding things like Oswalt/Halladay in 10 or Ibanez in 09) or unless they get younger soon, we’re looking at some serious declines over the next several years. +Brown/-Werth will lose the Phillies something next year, but it is a necessary step for the future. They need to start doing some more of that. The current team won’t uniformly age like Bordeaux. The farm can’t continually be sold for a few years of veteran performance.
There is a big block of 30 – 34 y/o key players on this team that is not getting younger. I’d be a lot happier with a more laddered team, age-wise. I admit that the reason that they have retained the older players is, well, that they’ve been good, but the injury bug we saw this year will not go away next year with a team that is even older at almost every position.
C’mon Blue Claws! Grow up fast!
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 22, 2010 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup. That Freeman shot was an absolute BOMBdiggity.
by Wet Luzinski on Sep 22, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Werth and especially Ibanez had great ABs in the sixth tonight.
And it was good to see Lidge get it done even when he wasn’t quite at his best, as he was last night.
Five up with ten to play feels pretty good.
by dajafi on Sep 21, 2010 10:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Congrats to Halladay.
However, he’s clearly a bit worn out at this point in the season. Alot of his fastballs are lacking movement and are a bit elevated.
Charlie definitely needs to give him no more than 8-10 innings until the playoffs, MAX. Let the man rest up.
I suspect this as well, but really don’t know it for certain. It may just be a couple average outings on his behalf. Wasn’t getting a lot of help from the ump tonight either, but tonight it was all around a tight zone for the most part, not just pickin’ on the pitcher in white.
I think he was quoted a few days ago that he’s aware it’s not April, and that you don’t have that extra bit sometimes, but he feels as good as any other year.
Today was a rough outing for him, but he did use his four pitches, and he did put them where he wanted them enough of the time, so I’m not too worried.
PitchFX looks like he didn’t throw any exceptional pitches today, so it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that he was leaving some in reserve.
@help from the ump...
imo, chooch pissed the ump off with the whole, throwing prematurely to third on what was clearly strike 3, but umps hate that sh!t. that was early too, 2nd inning if i’m not mistaken
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Sep 21, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the clear favorite, so… yeah, as j reed says, pretty effing good.
by PhillyFriar on Sep 21, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He has been the best overall pitcher all year. If u look at last few games, he has not been as dominate (giving up wallks, singles, …ect). I still think he is getting a Cy
"We are the borg. Resistance is futile."
He may not be the only one to twenty, though- Jimenez and Wainright are both at 19, with probably a pair of starts a piece. Plus, Greinke last year showed that the number of wins is not going to be the only thing the voters look at. It would be great to see him win it, though.
Wainwright is his only serious competition at this point.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
Wainwright and Halladay have almost identical numbers at this point, and they have both started the same amount of games. Its basically a coin flip. I wouldn’t be that mad if Waino took the award, since he got screwed out of it last year
perfect game
should sway the voters more in halladay’s favor over wainwright you would think
by PhilsForever on Sep 22, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact that Halladay has pitched 17 more innings than Wainwright (i.e., more than two games’ worth of innings) is pretty significant.
by perfectdepth on Sep 22, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably dangerous to say this, but I really, honestly believe it at this point: I’m not sure there’s a better team in baseball right now.
The defense is fantastic, the offense has been pretty darn good if not quite up to 2007-09 standards, the back of the bullpen has rounded into form, and we know about the starting pitching. Now they’re on a 9-game roll and they’ve effected an 8-game swing in the standings since September started. I mean, when the game ended tonight, I literally stood up and marveled, “This team is a freaking machine right now.”
DANGER DANGER DANGER!
No but seriously, as j reed once said, its “pretty effing good”.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
This team is the best team in the NL
IF the starting 3 pitchers pitch as they have so far, AND Lidge/Madson do as well AND the hitters play as they have since late July.
Any regression on those three points and they’re just another one of those teams. Firing on all cylinders, yes, best in the NL. Even with that I don’t know if they’re better than the Rays or the Yankees, however, but only a World Series rematch will be able to adequately determine that.
The only thing a World Series rematch will determine is who scores more runs over a best-of-seven, not who the better team is. The worse of the two teams wins the World Series all the time.
True enough
But would you rather win the World Series or “know” in your heart and mind that your team was the better team? We have no other way of determining who the best team in baseball is for a given year than the team that wins the World Series, even if it is only by winning four games rather than showing overall superiority.
by phillyinportland on Sep 22, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
defense was a bit lacking tonight. Werth dove for a ball he shouldn’t have (2 nights on a row), misplayed one off the wall, Valdez threw one into Ankiel’s arm.
Vic’s throwout of McCann was more of a Braves mistake than a Phils asset.
Shuddup.
Some of the defense was damn good. A couple misplays, but overall the D was definitely a plus.
by philsandthrills on Sep 22, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh, Ankiel was nowhere near second base when Valdez’s throw hit him, I find it hard to blame Wilson for that one.
it’s a bang bang play, I’ll admit that. But you’ve got to make that throw in such a way that the slider can’t whack it.
How many times do you see that happen?
Not very often, yet baserunners go into 2nd all the time with their hands up in hopes of deflecting the ball. Some credit goes to Ankiel, some blame goes to Valdez. It’s not a bonehead play or a mental mistake, he just didn’t get out of/over the baserunner like he needed to in order to turn that.
Is there any way you could watch this team for this whole ridiculous, incredible month and not have that thought in the back of your head?
We scored 5 runs and it felt disappointing.
We gave up 3 and it felt disappointing.
Just think about that.
July seems ages ago.
by philsandthrills on Sep 22, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
The big picture
Tomorrow the Phillies put their star backup left fielder on the mound to try to get a series sweep.
We shall see if the Braves fans are right about Oswalt’s lack of success against the Braves lately holds any relevance tomorrow. They’ve certainly been spot on about Brad Lidge sucking against them this year.
A bit worried about Roy
I definitely agree with what has been said about getting Roy rest down the stretch. He hasn’t been his dominant self this entire month. I just hope that Charlie sees this. His usage of his pitchers this year has been questionable at best-ie warming up the overused Madson in a blowout last friday
A pleasing game to attend
Not that I care for pitcher wins, but pitchers (and Cy Young voters!) clearly do, and it was nice to be there for Roy’s 20th.
Wins and losses are overrated, but not worthless stats. Halladay did earn his 20 wins, and while Oswalt and Hamels should have more wins for the quality of their personal performance, that does not make 20 wins any less impressive, for me.
Worthless when better stats are available
Take a look at wins leaderboards over the last 10 years or so. Look at all the no-names and pitchers having otherwise unremarkable seasons who have amassed 20 wins. Then tell me that wins are meaningful.
I was thinking more big picture. Very few bad to average pitchers amass hundreds of wins. I’m not saying it’s a real good stat, but I think worthless is going too far the other way.
I realize that wins and losses generally tend to follow better indicators like ERA etc, particularly over a long career.
Honestly, my biggest issue with pitcher wins and losses is that they’re prima facie nonsense – they attribute to pitchers what is, in fact, a team accomplishment. I realize that over time, the tough luck 1-0 losses will be averaged out by the cheap 6-5 wins, but given that getting a “win” or taking a “loss” in any particular game tells you, quite literally, NOTHING about how well the pitcher pitched in that particular game, what’s the point of keeping track when we have numbers that actually are, you know, descriptive?
You're spoiled
Was at the game tonight. Halladay was cruising through three. A 5-pitch first. His control was off starting in the 4th. Between the Werth misplay and McCann baserunning wtf, the three runs he gave up was about right. What was uncharacteristic was how he ran deep counts on the bottom of the order. Still, at the end of the night, his line reads: 2 walks. And give Manuel credit – he took him out in the 8th.
I was there too. Where were you sitting?
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.
by FuquaManuel on Sep 22, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not trying to say anything negative about Roy. Dude is a beast. But it just seems like hes had to battle and struggle through innings alot more this past month then he was earlier in the year. He hasn’t been his dominant self. I’d love to see the phils lock this thing up with a week to go and give him a couple extra days rest for his last start, then throw him 3-4 innings in his last start before the playoffs.
He’s tired, needs a rest. But I think rest+first time in playoffs=teh winz
by Wet Luzinski on Sep 22, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Dang Eagles!
Because the Eagles could not wait until tomorrow to announce Vick as the starter, the first 20 game winner since I was in diapers will be on the back cover of tomorrow’s Daily News:
<img src=“”http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2646432130088484395MQflnU">
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While Michael Vick, winner of 0 games since 2006 gets to be on the front!
This is nothing new
The Eagles (and by that I mean JL) are an insecure, selfish organization (says the fan).
I’ve heard for years from friends who have worked for both the Inquirer and the Daily News that the Birds Front Office quite dramatically lose their collective shite when they’re not above the fold, much less not on the front page. Timing/delaying the Donovan trade announcement until Easter Sunday – the night before opening day and Doc’s Philly debut – just cemented it for me.
They simply cannot stand the thought of playing second fiddle to the Phils.
The easy retort to which, of course, is to simply say, “Win a Superbowl. Otherwise, stop crying, Pussy.”
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Sep 22, 2010 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions
September
Since the lead was by the numbers, I thought I’d throw out a couple of comparisons to another great September team of recent years, the Colorado Rockies.
September/October overall:
2010 Phillies – 17-3
2009 Rockies – 20-11 (final game of season, a loss, came after they clinched Wild Card & were eliminated from NL West title hopes)
2007 Rockies – 21-8 (including one-game playoff vs. Padres)
Hottest stretch:
2010 Phillies – 13-1 (9/6 gm 2- 9/21)
2009 Rockies – 10-1 (9/1-9/11)
2007 Rockies – 14-1 (9/16-10/1, including one-game playoff vs. Padres)
The 2007 Rockies went on to win their first seven playoff games to run their hot streak to 21-1 before losing four straight to the Red Sox in the World Series.
This year the Rockies are 13-6 in September, but have lost their last two games. They had a 10-game winning streak from 9/3-9/12.
by phillyinportland on Sep 22, 2010 3:18 AM EDT reply actions
Great win. I love the way the team is playing. I would love it even more if the pitchers had some rest before the playoffs. I’ve been concerned all season that this team gets to the playoffs and the bullpen goes all China Syndrome since it has been very bad at at times and since, while parts have been capable of great runs, the good parts are seeing a lot of use.
Please, Phillies, keep the pedal to the floor and give yourselves a week off. I know you read this blog, and especially my insightful and pithy posts. Chase, you’re the best, and Cole — well…homey hug, baby. Valdez: you’ll always be my MVP, even though I told the Phillies Wives that if my mystery ball was signed by you that I’d throw it at them.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 22, 2010 7:36 AM EDT reply actions
Somthing tells me that they are going to have the #1 seed locked up with enough time to give the starters one of those games where they go out throw 3 innings than get pulled.
Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?
by sowhatifitisasportste on Sep 22, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I get your drift about making sure the key pitchers get adequate rest before the regular season ends. So I’m not sure how that means they should keep the pedal to the floor, since that implies playing all out every game, doesn’t it? I think you mean they should ease up on the pedal/gas once they clinch first place. That might be worthwhile to prevent injuries and give certain players some rest. But most of the regulars will want to keep sharp and that will mean playing games that count. I agree with the idea that a three-inning start might be a good way to keep from getting rusty.
by phillyinportland on Sep 22, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
3 Pitchers combine for a perfect game?
Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?
by sowhatifitisasportste on Sep 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Then we can go into the playoffs with our bullpen being worn out instead. I guess they could always call up Drew Carpenter and let him, Worley, Durbin and Herndon act as long men to pitch3-4 innings after the top 4 starters get sent to the showers.
I think that’s basically what they would do, except that on Sunday 10/3 the “backup starter” would probably be Kyle Kendrick.
I figure they would not rest him and use him in that capacity. It’s unlikely he would get used in the playoffs, so no concerns about tiring him out.
as far as a #5 the Phillies could do much worse than KK
Hey Dez, it's 2am do you know where your mother is?
by sowhatifitisasportste on Sep 22, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
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