Phillies avoid arbitration with Francisco

Jeez has Gelb been on top of things lately. Just beat Zolecki to Twitter with this one.

The one-year deal is for $1.175 million.

over 1 year ago PhillyFriar 71 comments 0 recs |

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Good news.

Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.

by FuquaManuel on Jan 15, 2011 3:31 PM EST reply actions

I wish they tried for a two-year deal.

by philsandthrills on Jan 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions

This is just his first arb year, isn’t it?

by taco pal on Jan 15, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

I guess he could have a big 2011 and drive his price up though…

by taco pal on Jan 15, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

I imagine that given the opportunity this year, he’ll prove himself to be much more than a 4th outfielder.
So long as Charlie gives him a chance, that is.

by philsandthrills on Jan 15, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

Not a big deal, dollars wise, but I just think it’d have been a good idea.

by philsandthrills on Jan 15, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions

As far as I'm concerned,

I’ll trade a higher arbitration raise in ’12 for a breakout ’11 season, no problem.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 15, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, but you theoretically could have had both (if the breakout season actually comes, that is).

by taco pal on Jan 16, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions

Can’t really complain about this one.

by Delicious Cake on Jan 15, 2011 3:48 PM EST reply actions

check that off the “to do” list

by j reed on Jan 15, 2011 4:20 PM EST reply actions

I like it. For some reason, I am a big Benny Fran fan.

by FearTheTurtIe on Jan 15, 2011 4:29 PM EST reply actions

Wow, nice friendly contract.

by JimmyK on Jan 15, 2011 8:33 PM EST reply actions

Is Francisco currently ‘penciled in’ as the starting right fielder?

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 16, 2011 12:52 PM EST reply actions

Looking more and more that way, I think.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 16, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions

Why doesn’t that fill me with confidence or joy?

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 16, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions

Because the majority of the fans and media think he is really good even though he’s not? I’ve never understood the infatuation with him. He swings too hard 99.99999% of the time, and he can’t play defense.

by Bozo31215 on Jan 16, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions

Spectacular Catch + Small Sample Size = Overestimation of Ability

That being said, I’m not willing to write him off. I’m more than willing to give him a chance to succeed/hopefully exceed expectations.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 16, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions

He’s a slightly above average bat (109 OPS+ with the Phils, 105 for his career) who’s an average fielder (.991 fld% to .986 for all OFs, but worth -1 run per year in the field). We could do worse. He’s just overhyped for what he is.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jan 16, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

I"m pretty sure a UZR of -10 isn’t very good – but then again he doesn’t play much.

PS – can someone explain swinging too hard?

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 16, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions

Trying to hit homeruns I think.

by j reed on Jan 16, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions

Who exactly is “overhyping” Ben Francisco?

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 16, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions

This guy’s imagination.

by philsandthrills on Jan 16, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions

Correct.

by taco pal on Jan 16, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions

I was wondering the same thing

I guess there’s also the guy who made a fanpost optimistically comparing him to Werth?

CLEARLY a majority of fans and media.

by perfectdepth on Jan 16, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I was thinking more the people who are now convinced Dom Brown stinks because of his last 150 ABs or so.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 16, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions

In any event, I think Francisco is being penciled in largely (though not entirely) for motivational purposes.

The thinking is probably that if you tell Brown that he needs to win the job, he’ll be extra motivated to do so. It also sets a “clubhouse” precedent that nobody is handed a job, you have to earn it on the field by performing at the major league level.

I’m fine with that. Plus, even if you think the motivational technique is a waste of time, it’s unlikely to do any harm.

by taco pal on Jan 16, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions

Not me

I was just responding to the people who… well… I responded to.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 17, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions

Personally, I have faith in the system

The Phillies in the past decade or so have done a good job coaching hitters and helping them to improve their game. Francisco really hasn’t seen too much at the plate while in the Phillies, but, I hope with Manuel and staff, he can prove himself to be capable of being a good addition to the team.

Now, I am hardly saying he’ll be like Werth, who went from nobody to $175m contract, but I have confidence (Hope?) he’ll be a good contributor to the team in 2011.

by JamesFromPhilly on Jan 16, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions

Werth was a first round pick with well regarded tools when picked 13 years ago. Ben Francisco was a high floor, low Ceiling college player drafted in the fifth round. Other than both being Outfielders for the Phillies, the two really don’t have anything in common for comparison.

Ben should be a perfectly good starter (preferably in Left, where his pea shooter won’t lead to as many extra bases) and could be a nice option as a bridge from the end of the Ibanez era to the start of the whoever develops in Single A era.

by Cormican on Jan 17, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions

Your ideas are intriguing to me

and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 17, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions

high floor, low ceiling

somepin’ like?

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 17, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

I believe that’s the picture on his rookie card.

by Cormican on Jan 17, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

His career numbers are:

LF (181 G): UZR/150 = 3.4
CF (44 G): UZR/150 = -19.5
RF (75 G): UZR/150 = -14.1

So far, he hasn’t shown himself to be much of a right fielder, but 75 G is a mighty small sample size. My guess is that if he ends up being our full time RF (which I think is unlikely), he’ll be a somewhat below-average player there, but he won’t kill us or anything. He’s also right in his prime years now, so he could outperform his historical numbers, especially at the plate.

by taco pal on Jan 16, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions

He’s also right in his prime years now, so he could outperform his historical numbers, especially at the plate

That’s what I was thinking.
Question: when players often have career years in their prime is it mostly on the offense side of things or do you see it in their fielding as well?

by j reed on Jan 17, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions

Look at where those ratings are coming from, though:

Arm: -3.1
Range: -4.4
Error: +0.9

It doesn’t make sense to put a weak-armed outfielder in right field. Unfortunately, I don’t think we have much choice – Vic’s the only plus arm, unless you count Brown’s itty-bitty sample size.

Honor is no substitute for victory.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions

Assuming Vic’s shoulder injury isn’t still causing problems. His throws looked weak last year. Oof how could I forget Francisco’s nerf trebuchet of an arm.

by j reed on Jan 17, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Vic’s throws started to look better towards the end of the season. I think he’ll be ok.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions

I really wish he was used to platoon with Ibanez, though. There’s no way he could have a worse arm than Raul.

by philsandthrills on Jan 17, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions

Weirdly, Ibanez always had a pretty decent arm until last year. He’s an ex-catcher and he even threw the ball well in ‘09. I’ve never seen old position players lose their arm strength with age, but maybe that’s what’s happened.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions

MLB Network is running a half-hour program on each position called “Top 10 Right Now”, and I was quite surprised to see Ibanez make the LF list as the #10 left fielder. They apparently gave some weight to 2009 and think he can improve on 2010, AARP membership notwithstanding.

by schmenkman on Jan 17, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions

It’s interesting when people say ‘top 10’ – so that must be good

but what if you said ‘raul ibanez is in the bottom of the top 1/3 of left fielders in baseball’ (assuming they’re only talking starters)

Does it hold as much weight?

When i was in highschool – a D was 70%, Ibanez being 10th in the top 10 only makes him better than 67% based on the starters assumption, so it’s still an F

Just saying – it’s something i was thinking about recently how ‘top 10’ sounds good but if you say ‘bottom of the top third’ does it sound as good to you?

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 17, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions

Sure. Of course, at the other end of the spectrum, Top 10 of MLB is the top <1% of the 100s or 1000s who play that position in college and pro baseball.

by schmenkman on Jan 17, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions

No doubt – but the comparison is within the league – and while ‘top 10’ sounds good for ibanez – saying it the other way wouldn’t thrill people – maybe it just means there’s a lot of weak left fielders in the league :)

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 17, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

To me, bottom of top 1/3 sounds pretty good. Hey after all top 1/3 isn’t bad.

Your D=70% analogy though is confusing the matter, since it’s not a percentile — I assume it’s not the case that 67% of your classmates got an F.

by schmenkman on Jan 17, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions

Well no – because we had curves

I don’t believe in curves

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 17, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions

He did play all those years in Safeco as well. I wonder if it’s more about arm speed – the faster the ball travels the more distance it will cover relative to the ball’s sink rate. If so which seeing this type of decline for an older player would make more sense since speed is harder for older athletes to maintain than strength. My impression has been that Ibanez struggles more with accuracy and getting to the ball. Unfortunately his struggles with the latter have been highlighted because it has reared its ugly head during the post season.

by j reed on Jan 17, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

"nerf trebuchet"

LOL

by phatj on Jan 17, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions

yes, I liked this too. Beaut of a metaphor.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 17, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions

I googled “nerf trebuchet” for kicks and came across this tremendous YouTube video of an office nerf war: http://www.youtube.com/v/4oXRUKiGjwY&hl=en&fs=1&border=1

by phatj on Jan 17, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Link's screwy...

NERF WAR FIXED.

BTW – Super REC’d.

EPIC.

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 17, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions

HA HA! The packaging popcorn for guts! Great stuff. But I was all like wut with the new Nerf shit. All we ever had was this

and you actually had to throw it.

by j reed on Jan 18, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions

nerf trebuchet

Reminds me of my HS football team’s QB. We used to say he had a BB gun of an arm.

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions

I guess your coach called alot of screens then.

by j reed on Jan 17, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions

Unfortunately not. We had a good running back (dude also did track and field, and set records at two or three different distances), but our passing game sucked. The four years I was there, we never finished over .500, and we won our homecoming game once.

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions

Was your high school quarter back tim tebow?

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 17, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions

Tebow’s arm strength is fine, it’s his throwing motion and accuracy that are problems.

by Cormican on Jan 17, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions

Bill Conlin weighs in here. His contribution to this debate is as essential as his columns always are.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2011 5:20 PM EST reply actions

Your usage of weighs in was hopefully purposeful?

by SportingFanaticism on Jan 17, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions

I read the comments.
Why, oh why did I read the comments?

by philsandthrills on Jan 17, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions

Don’t look at it Marion! Keep your eyes shut!

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 17, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Mom! Dad! It’s evil! Don’t touch it!

by j reed on Jan 17, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions

AAAAIIIEEEE!!!!!!!

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 17, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions

Andruw Jones? Sweet Jesus, even if he weren’t an ex-Brave I don’t think I’d want him for league minimum.

by Cormican on Jan 17, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions

I actually wouldn’t mind him over say.. Mayberry.

by EJL on Jan 17, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions

nothing wrong with Jones

as long as he’s not starting.

as a bench bat, he can still field the corners well enough and he certainly hits lefties (.256/.373/.558 last year). I’m no fan of his, but if you need a fifth/sixth outfielder I don’t think there’s any problem with him at all.

by perfectdepth on Jan 17, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions

damn it

Dom Brown sucks. There’s no hope.

Billy DeMars, one of the best hitting coaches the Phillies have ever had, is retired in Clearwater and has seen Brown often. “Try this,” Billy told me last month when I ran into him at the Phillies’ minor league complex. “Try holding the bat that high from the lefthand side. Now, take your bottom hand off and try to throw the bat. You can’t do it from up there. You can only throw it down.”

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 17, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions

Quick, package him and Howard and trade for Pujols!

by philsandthrills on Jan 17, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions

and Kendrick and Blanton and cash! Oh my!

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 17, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions

see, it will never work.

by Wet Luzinski on Jan 17, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions

I think philly.com needs to post a video of Conlin physically demonstrating what DeMars showed him. Then we’ll all understand exactly why Domonic Brown can’t do it.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions