Phillies Decline 2012 Options for Brad Lidge, Roy Oswalt -- Source: Completely Obvious News Network
by WholeCamels on Oct 24, 2011 4:42 PM EDT
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In a development likely to shock absolutely no one, the Phillies have opted to decline the $16 million option on pitcher Roy Oswalt's contract, and the $12.5 million option for reliever Brad Lidge. Oswalt's deal features a $2 million buyout; Lidge's, $1.5 million.
Raise your hand if you thought the Phillies were going to pay a combined $28.5 million for a couple guys well on the wrong side of 30 coming off injury-plagued seasons. Yeah.
The Phillies' press release doesn't completely close the door on the two pitchers returning:
The Phillies officially declined the 2012 options for the contracts of right-handed pitchers Brad Lidge and Roy Oswalt, the club announced today.
"While we will not pick up either of their options, we will remain in contact with representatives for both players about the possibility of bringing them back for the 2012 season," said Senior Vice President & General Manager Ruben Amaro Jr. "Brad and Roy both made significant contributions to the Phillies over the past several seasons."
The move may actually benefit Oswalt, who may find a suitor (perhaps even the Phillies) willing to guarantee more money over a two or three years deal). Lidge, on the other hand, is looking at life as a middle reliever, also possibly with the Phillies, but his years as a big money back-of-the-bullpen type are likely kaput.
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Color me shocked! I wouldn’t mind seeing either back at a discounted rate, but I really don’t see that happening.
Anybody else finding this site to be a bit wonky today or is it just me?
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Not surprised, but still sad :(
I don’t know- Oswalt spoke of being happy here and wanting to pitch for a few more years- for the right long term (2-3 year) deal he could come back.
I am less certain as to whether there is true organizational interest in bringing Lidge back at any type of deal that would make him happy, particularly considering that with the current crop of prospects, bullpen is probably the one thing that could be done cheaply (other than closer).
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 24, 2011 5:43 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Sad, but necessary.
Of the two, I’d think Lidge might be more likely to sign a new one-year deal. Oswalt was starting to look a lot stronger and better down the last few starts of the season (especially with the shift in his routine), but Worley made him expendable.
Best wishes to both of them, wherever they end up. And I’d take both back if it ends up that way.
Ditto. I’d be happy to have both of them back for the right price…which is quite a lot less than $28.5M, needless to say. Oswalt still has some tread on him, and for all the heartburn he gives me I have to admit Lidge still has a remarkable and useful ability to wriggle out of self-created jams. Wonder what it will take to resign them?
I’d offer Oswalt 2 years/$12 mil and see if he bites. I’d take him over Kendrick at half that price, which KK will most certainly be offered, if not more. I’d also offer Lidge 1 year/$2 mil as a potential emergency closer. He’s probably good for at least a couple more sub 4.00 FIP seasons.
Moyer for 5th Starter in 2012.
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Oct 24, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I think I’d rather have Kendrick. But even more so, I’d rather have neither.
Lidge still has something left but he isn’t a good fit for the 2012 Phils, what with all their AAA middle relief prospects.
So who do you want in that sixth starter/ long relief role?
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 25, 2011 10:16 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
But Lidge isn’t really your standard shitty middle relief guy – he has been dominant in the past, has shown a potential ability to close when your first or second guy is unavailable, and could prove valuable if we go through another revolving-door situation like the one we did this year.
I definitely wouldn’t offer more years or dollars than 1 yr or $2 mil, but at that price, he’d be kind of a low-risk signing. And if his wheels finally, irrevocably fall off, he could be Baez’d at little detriment to the team.
Moyer for 5th Starter in 2012.
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Oct 25, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true, but Lidge was dominant when his FB was 3 or 4 mph faster. That ain’t coming back. I believe he can still be effective, but with the wealth of bullpen arms in AAA, I just don’t see any real value in resigning Lidge. It’s $1.5 Million Rubes could better put to use on a utility guy or power bench bat.
One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is what effect having Blanton,Worley, and Kendrick in the 4-5 slots does to both the bullpen innings and Charlies tendency to overuse the big three late.
I think you have to have a few “dependable” arms (IE veteran relievers Charlie trusts that make around 2 mm per) vs a youg guns pen.
I’m not saying it’s the right decision, but it’s what they should do. I’d rarer see a few decent arms in the pen signed for 10 mm than 1 closer.
Lee and hamels can’t continue to pitch the innings they have.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
The rumors are that he is working on Madson… At the rate things are going, Nationals Park could really become Citizen’s Bank Park South.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 24, 2011 9:32 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
In suddenly more interesting news...
The ageless wonder still intends to pitch in 2012.
I can just see the heads exploding.
Not surprising
But I’d love to have Oswalt back on a more palatable deal. I’ll never forget his 2010 performance: 82.2IP, 73 SO, 21BB, .90 WHIP and 1.74 ERA. The dude was straight dealin’.
Surprised no one? The Phillies giving big money to hurt players is never a surprise for me. I’m still burned by the Freddy Garcia move.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
It was Ruben’s forerunner and mentor. The man who stated that he likes to bargain hunt, while Ruben likes to go for the big prize. So if the bargain hunter will get Garcia, what does that mean here? Was it a move by Ruben directly? No. Does that mean everyone responsible is gone? No.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
So if the bargain hunter will get Garcia, what does that mean here?
Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt are not Freddy Garcia. That deal was a bad decision. That doesn’t mean they’re likely to do it again. If anything I’d say the Phillies’ front office is more likely to not do that kind of move again, given how badly it blew up in their faces.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 25, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, none, which is what made it such a crazily stupid deal. I still don’t know what Gillick was thinking.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 25, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Happy trails Roy
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on Oct 24, 2011 11:18 PM EDT reply actions
It feels so dirty rooting for a team in TX.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Oct 25, 2011 12:08 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
I feel pretty dirty rooting half-rooting for the Cardinals so the NL can win again, and so the Phillies look like they feel to the World Champs. Though falling to the second place World Champs feels a bit better.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
See, that doesn’t really make me feel better, so I just root for the Cards demise.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Oct 25, 2011 1:13 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t get that satisfaction. Especially when the WIP crowd wants us to have an offense like St. Louis’s. Not that Texas’s is much worse (are they even worse?) but I think the average idiot does not realize how good Texas is.
Also, Texas’s winning can maybe erase that whole “starting pitchers win championships” bogus BS narrative.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
In my mind, the Rangers have a better Rotation than the Cards. Get rid of Carpenter and that Cards rotation is atrocious.
73 NL starters w/ min 100 IP
Carpenter 14th, Garcia 15th, Lohse 48th
Jackson was 3.54 with White Sox, 4.03 with Cardinals. 4.03 for a full year would have been tied him with Lohse roughly, but maybe that isn’t the right number to use.
64 NL starters w/ min 100 IP
Wilson 8th, Holland 24th, Harrison 30th, Ogando 34th, Lewis 40th
Don’t worry, there’s very little to trade at this point.
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
by Jose and the Contrarians on Oct 25, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s the saddest thing I heard all day.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 25, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
From the Phillies Links article today
http://crashburnalley.com/2011/10/24/guest-post-where-have-all-the-prospects-gone/
VanceinmyPants posted it.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
"Only" $25 million, really
Obviously still not worth it, but it’s important to consider the $3.5 as a sunk cost.
LaRussa’s is blaming the phone and the crowd noise for some bullpen issues—said coach couldn’t hear the last name of the reliever TLR wanted: http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7145762/tony-la-russa-bad-call
Puh-lease.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Funny real-time reactions from Rangers announcers here:
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=141677809&m=141651144
This is probably me backlashing against all the TLR knob-slobbing going on for the past three weeks, but it’s delightful. He’s been overpraised for moves and will now be blamed too much for last night. If there were miscommunication error, they should have backup plans for that sort of thing—hand signals or whatever.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I mean, he says in the article that it happens all the time! Well, if it happens all the time, don’t you think you’d design something to deal with it in worst case scenario? They do it in the NFL, fercrissakes.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Posnanski had an absolutely BRILLIANT rant about both how annoying Tim McCarver is and how overrated Michael Young is. Between TLR’s meltdown last night and that article, it’s been an entertaining day.
The Michael Young hagiographies are really annoying. What is it with this guy? I wonder if it’s that he’s just particularly good with the media, so they think he’s an awesome player and role model to boot.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 25, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I should clarify that I have no clue as to whether or not this is true and it is pure conjecture.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 25, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s amazing. He is terrible Defensively, Stephen Hawking walks more often than he does and he’s having a terrible postseason, yet, somehow, media types keep praising him. Christ, Harold Reynolds called him an MVP (this year). He’s a fucking Jedi or something.
Hand signals wouldn’t work. From the visitors dugout you can’t see who is up in the visitors bullpen. So he had no way of knowing the wrong guy was up.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I meant like hand signals to represent certain pitchers—almost like sign language.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
That doesn’t change the fact that the person TLR was speaking to on the phone couldn’t see him in the dugout.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
View...
Just for conversations sake, the bullpen phone is located above that yellow fan, so the person on the bullpen phone is located behind a wall.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Well, then, they need an alternative plan. It’s not like they didn’t know this was how the stadium was set up. I know you can’t use headsets because of cheating potential, but there has to be a better way.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I don’t disagree that they probably needed a back up, at this point it won’t matter since they won’t be back there.
However, TLR thought the bullpen coach heard him correctly, it wasn’t until the wrong guy came out to the mound that he realized the bullpen coach didn’t hear him. So at that point there was nothing he could do.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
In the end though, it couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
I can go to Arby’s and order a Roast Beef sandwich and without the staff saying a word to each other, bam, I get a Roast Beef sandwich. There has to be some way of applying the POS system from a restaurant to an MLB bullpen. TLR, goes to a screen and touches number 35 and number 42 and ta-da, the bullpen coach starts warming up the two pitchers on the screen. No risk for error and you limit the system so they can only choose available options, and can’t relate signals or whatever.
I actually just said that to a coworker of mine. I am surprised they haven’t put a system in like that. And you can even update the progress of that pitcher on the screen, kind of like Domino’s does when you place an order online.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Yeah, you order your BP options like at Wawa with an iPad or somesuch. They all have them in the dugout.
Someone develop an app for that and make a bajillion dollars!
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
It does seem like the bullpen coach may have screwed up here. To translate it into Phillies-ese, if I’m Mick Billmeyer and it’s a tight spot late in the game and Prince Fielder’s in the hole and Charlie calls me on the bullpen phone and I hear him say “Get Stutes and Herndon throwing,” I think it’s on me to ask for some clarification along the lines of “Are you sure you didn’t mean Bastardo?”
La Russa claimed that Lance Lynn would only be available in the case of emergency. Assuming he had communicated this simple command to Derek Lilliquist, wouldn’t it have made sense for Lilliquist to say “Lance Lynn? Are you sure? The 8th inning is not really an emergency situation, is it?” or something along those lines.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Exactly.
There was so much more to that game than La Russa’s Strategery Gone Wrong™. He absolutely is being over-blamed for last night, but this could not happen to a more deserving guy or a more deserving fanbase. This was posted by a blogger emeritus at Viva El Birdos, and I did not mention anything about it at the time because nothing good would have come from it, but reflecting back on it, I can’t help but feel that they the Cardinals and that fanbase deserved every bit of last night.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Corey Seidman thinks there’s an 85% chance that Lidge will be back for 1 year, $3.25 million, with a vesting option.
http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/phillies-talk/post/-?blockID=582408&feedID=693
That could be right, but I hope not. It’s too much money.
Considering the abundance of cheap internal options to fill his role I am inclined to agree with you.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
With so many cheap, young, MLB ready bullpen arms, you almost have to use them.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
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