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Blink: Cardinals 5, Phillies 3

When the Phillies started their magical run in 2007, I was a consultant, and when October came, so ecstatic was I to see my favorite team in the playoffs for the first time since before I could legally drink that I thought nothing of rearranging my fairly loose schedule to make sure I could watch every game. This was the case in 2008 and 2009 as well; I was locked in for every pitch, and probably made an appreciable contribution to the fourth-quarter profits of certain breweries and distributorships. Then in 2010 I got a real big-boy dress-up-and-work-full-days kind of job, and this October I have a different one. 

I mention this because this evening I didn't get home until a bit before 7pm Eastern time, meaning that I missed the first two and a half innings of NLDS Game Four. When I turned it on, the Phillies were leading the Cardinals 2-1. Good enough... but as I understand it, the club had a golden opportunity to deliver the kill shot to the Cards in the first inning, and couldn't come through. Jimmy Rollins led off with a double. Chase Utley followed with a triple; 1-0 Phils.Hunter Pence scored Utley with a single to make it 2-0... and then it all went to hell. Ryan Howard was backwards-K'd on a pitch I'm informed was not a strike, and Pence was called out at second on a play I'm told he was safe. Two in, but two outs, none on, and a desperately needed reprieve for St. Louis starter Edwin Jackson

St. Louis got one back in the bottom of the first against Roy Oswalt, on a double by his former teammate Lance Berkman, and went ahead in the fourth on a two-run double by David Freese. He later added a two-run homer that made it 5-2, finishing the game 2-3 with four runs batted in. Oswalt and two relievers held Albert Pujols to an 0 for 4, and limited the damage done by the Cardinals' other big guns, but again were beaten by the guys at the bottom of the lineup. For the series, the Cardinals' seven-hole hitters--Skip Schumaker in the first two games, Ryan Theriot yesterday, and Friese tonight--have gone a combined 10 for 16.

The Phillies' seven-hole hitter has been Placido Polanco, 2 for 16 in the series for a .125 average. Making him feel better about himself is Carlos Ruiz, at .071. Ryan Howard, who started the series so strongly, is now down to .133 after yet another late-game strikeout at the hands of a left-hander. With a man on and a run across in the eighth inning, Howard whiffed on three pitches against Marc Rzep... Rzepinsk... the lefty who isn't Arthur Rhodes (who struck out Raul Ibanez an inning earlier). Jason Motte then set the Phils down 1-2-3 in the 9th.

If you're thinking this recap reeks of despair, that's not a failure of reading comprehension. Throughout this series, the Phillies have turned in awful at-bats against less than imposing pitchers; Jackson was there to be had again and again in this game, and other than Rollins and Utley--who short-circuited a potential rally in the sixth with an overaggressive base-running move, getting thrown out at third--nobody went up with an evident clue. 

Friday, they face a real pitcher: Cards ace Chris Carpenter, whom the Phils knocked around early in Game Two before the offense sunk into a slumber from which it has yet to stir. That start came on three days' rest, the first time in the former Cy Young Award winner's career he'd attempted that feat. He'll be on full rest Friday. 

If there's reason for hope, it's that Carpenter will be opposed by his former Blue Jays teammate and good friend Roy Halladay. Doc also was shaky early in his first NLDS start, but rebounded to set down the last 21 hitters he faced in the Phils' series-opening 11-6 win. Unless the bats come to life, he'll have to be every bit as good for the Phillies to advance to the next round. 

Fangraph of frustration:

    20111005_phillies_cardinals_0_20111005194400_lbig__medium

via www.fangraphs.com

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an apology

Sorry about that, valued posters. I screwed something up earlier and had to delete the previous iteration of the game recap, along with your comments.

Teh internetz: I’m no good at them. Sorry.

Now back to our regularly scheduled postgame discussion.

by dajafi on Oct 5, 2011 11:50 PM EDT reply actions  

No worries. We were wallowing in the Pit of Despair.

by Wet Luzinski on Oct 5, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pit of Despair. bah. Man up and take a real drug – Nihilism – never hit rock bottom cuz there aint a bottom to the abyss.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

My green comment is lost forever. I has a sad.

by philsandthrills on Oct 6, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wrath of Steve Jobs

by JpH89 on Oct 6, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

He will personally haunt all PCs until given a proper burial

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Steve Jobs or the PCs?

by essman on Oct 6, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Roy Halladay

enough of this despair. We have one game, and this man is pitching for us.

Roy Halladay.

by magnumforce2006 on Oct 5, 2011 11:54 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Re: Standing Pat

I am actually OK with standing pat for the most part. Part of why I am OK is the trade for Pence. If Right Field was still the Ben Fran/ Mayberry/ Brown mash up, I would probably want an outfield bat to help the offense. But I would be fine if the offseason moves are more extensions than additions.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 5, 2011 11:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yeah, of course that mashup will probably be in Left Field next year, although they have all winter/spring to see if one will stand out among the three.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 5, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point was more this- I am ok with the mashup in one of the corners, but asking the three of them to handle Right AND Left is looking for trouble.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 12:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So the plan for Friday is to fall behind, right? Cause having the first lead in this series means losing!

"You play to win the playoffs, and we let 'em off the hook!" -Herm Mora Green

by jrobulls on Oct 6, 2011 12:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Not true- Phillies took the first lead in Game 3. The trick is to not take the first lead in the first inning.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 12:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The trick, as always, is to have the lead at the end of the game. It is just coincidence that in three of the four games one team has gotten out to a first-inning lead and then not held it. What bothers me most about the way the series has gone is the fact that in both games the Phillies lost they had gotten off to such a good start and then hit a wall. You can complain about the lineup but there have been times in those games plus the second half of game one where the lineup was working almost exactly the way you’d want. That is what seems confusing, even to someone who has followed baseball for many years. The pressure to succeed with all the hype surrounding this excellent team may be more than some of the players can handle.

by phillyinportland on Oct 6, 2011 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m more inclined to agree with dajafi

Throughout this series, the Phillies have turned in awful at-bats against less than imposing pitchers; Jackson was there to be had again and again in this game, and other than Rollins and Utley—who short-circuited a potential rally in the sixth with an overaggressive base-running move, getting thrown out at third—nobody went up with an evident clue.

They aint helping themselsves out and neither is the manager. Which isn’t to say better AB’s would yield better outcomes but at least they’d be doing everything to have increased their odds. They look like the Marlins getting Moyer’d.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

True. Umpiring is not helping either (never good when all of the bad ball-strike calls go against you).

Question for those of you who watched the Utley play- had Utley not taken off for third, did Pujols have a play on Pence at first?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 9:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, that was our impression; Pujols chose the lead runner. Heads up.

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then as much as Utley’s move was dumb, it is very possible that it was not as costly as some have made it out to be. There would have still been one out and a runner on for Howard. Howard struck out swinging at garbage, which would not have scored Chase, and Victorino’s ground out ends it regardless. Granted it is fallacy of the predetermined outcome, but it is not like Howard or Victorino got a hit that would have scored Utley from second but not Pence from first.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 10:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I agree that Pence was probably going to be out but it was by no means an easy out, as I’ve heard it described by some. It looked to me to be a bang-bang play with Pence getting very close. If Utley had been totally heads up he might have done a fake break for third to draw Pujols off first then scampered back to second. Watching the replay Utley was so far from third when he was gunned out that Pujols might have been able to stay on first and still get him out. In other words, he fooled no one and made an unwise decision that hurt the team.

by phillyinportland on Oct 6, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

This. I have no idea why this is being presented as some great play by Pujols or that he somehow outsmarted Chase. It was a boneheaded play by Utley and Pujols took advantage of it.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

More of a fail by Utley, sure, but not difficult to imagine other players not having the presence of mind. A good example of independent situational thinking defeating rote patterned thinking.

by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 6, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. that’s from some movie. I hope it wasn’t a bad one.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

James Bond Die Another Day.

Not great. But I think the quote actually started somewhere else.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 7, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think there’s less than a 0.1% chance Pence would have been safe. The replay clearly shows that when Pujols jumped out and caught the ball, he and Pence were roughly the same distance from the first base bag. The ball travels much faster than runners do. The only way Pence would have been safe is if Pujols dropped an on-target throw.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at it again now, Pence was closer than that. Pujols catches the ball a distance from the bag that’s about 2x the Pence-Bag distance. Pence was in midair 1.5 strides from the bag.

But the ball was going at least 75 mph, and not even Usain Bolt can run faster than 30 mph. Even with that revision, I don’t see any way Pence could have made it without Pujols dropping the throw.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahaha, so we’re hoping for a scoreless first two innings? That sounds about right.

by Sisko on Oct 6, 2011 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Random question, does anyone know who the Phillies have down in the Arizona Fall League?

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Found this on Phuture Phillies

The Phillies announced today the players they would be sending to the Arizona Fall League, which begins play in October. The names include pitchers Tyler Cloyd, Jacob Diekman, BJ Rosenberg, and Colby Shreve as well as 1B Cody Overbeck, 1B Darin Ruf and OF Tyson Gillies.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 12:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Thanks

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap, Tyson Gillies is still alive?!?

Better to say a player hit a home run, rather than he "walloped"‘ or "‘blasted"‘ or "cracked" it. Home runs are also homers, but avoid calling them "dingers," "‘jacks," "bombs," "taters" and "four-baggers." Pitchers can pitch two-hitters, but avoid "twirling" or "chucking" or "fireballing." And teams try to reach the World Series instead of the "Fall Classic." In short, avoid hackneyed words and phrases.

-AP World Series Style Guide

by LeepinLizardz on Oct 6, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alive and per his Twitter looking forward to being “part of a team other than Team Rehab”

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Also, former Phillie Josh Zied is playing

www.southpawcurve.tumblr.com - check out my baseball blog!!

by JLS89 on Oct 6, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

really doesnt shock me to see horrible umpiring hurt a playoff game so far

by Easedel on Oct 6, 2011 12:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Tonights game was awful in every way. Anything can happen in Game 5 but I’d rather have Roy Halladay then anyone else in baseball. This is why we brought him here. We still got this

by aPHILLYated on Oct 6, 2011 12:20 AM EDT reply actions  

In Game 1, Roy Halladay set down 21 batters in a row. Last pitcher to do that in a playoff game was Don Larsen. True story. I’ll take my chances. ‘Course, I’m never really confident going into a Game 5/7 scenario, but I’m as close as I can be.

Also, if the D’Backs can hold on tonight, at least the winner of that series will have gone five games, too – meaning neither advancing team should have an advantage that way.

"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews

by Senor Octubre on Oct 6, 2011 12:24 AM EDT reply actions  

This. I would say that this is biggest advantage the Phillies have with the four aces. They don’t have to scramble to reset their rotation, or feel pressured into using pitchers on short rest.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was confident until til tonight , after 3 or 4th inning when it appeared that Edwin Jackson adjusted and started “carving” up the line-up.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was about when mine went South too (I felt really good yesterday and thought both me and the Phillies were going to lock something up!)

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

In Game 1, Roy Halladay set down 21 batters in a row.

I am assuming that is after giving up a hit?

Because Roy did have the no hitter last October where he sat down 27 straight.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

which might be necessary

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly yes.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey have you watched Alphas?

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course. I just read yesterday that Behr is leaving the show.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m up to the Summer Glau episode. The pilot was promising but I didn’t think it was gonna be this good.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

It has gotten better. There is an episode with Brent Spiner that was very good.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

his walk was in the middle innings, so no he didn’t

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes- Halladay sat down 21 straight following the 7th inning hit.

Last year he did NOT set down 27 straight. He sat down 14, gave up a walk that broke the streak, then set down 13.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

During his October no hitter.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Souls have said 2nd inning hit… Brain not working real well this morning.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oh ok. I forgot about that. Thank you.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, he didn’t set down 27 straight last year, there was a walk in the fifth inning.

I felt like I thought it hit me - Chase Utley

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, didn’t see that had already been corrected

I felt like I thought it hit me - Chase Utley

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

There are times that I truly hate being Jewish. Friday night will be one of them. If God ever plans on having a Great Flood 2.0, Friday night in Philly will be ideal.

by youaretheman26 on Oct 6, 2011 12:36 AM EDT reply actions  

but hey at least you get to eat meat on Fridays/S

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

But not bacon :(

Better to say a player hit a home run, rather than he "walloped"‘ or "‘blasted"‘ or "cracked" it. Home runs are also homers, but avoid calling them "dingers," "‘jacks," "bombs," "taters" and "four-baggers." Pitchers can pitch two-hitters, but avoid "twirling" or "chucking" or "fireballing." And teams try to reach the World Series instead of the "Fall Classic." In short, avoid hackneyed words and phrases.

-AP World Series Style Guide

by LeepinLizardz on Oct 6, 2011 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Turkey bacon!

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Survey says: not as tasty.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s crazy to think how much worse our chances would be in this series without Pence.

by FuquaManuel on Oct 6, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I wasn’t gonna go there

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

except for the shitty ABs he’s had.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

but at least they’re shitty Right handed AB’s

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

he did drive in a run….so he’s got that going for him

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

And he is hitting better than anybody below him in the lineup below him. Has he been amazing: no. But other than Rollins and Utley, nobody is all that hot.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

oh sure, his post season has been decent but he’s the right handed annoited one. I actually feel for the guy, he’s expected to do an impossible task – compensate for the volatility of the post season.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's just me...

But I never expected that from him. I expected him to hit about on the level he had during the season (which has not quite happened, but is kind of within the ups and downs of a short series).

Have been avoiding Philly sports media- has there been a big outcry regarding Pence’s performance?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 9:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

In some kind of sick joke/twist of fate or whatever you want to call it, I’ve been reading a lot of positive stuff about Jonathan Singleton in the end of year prospect roundups.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

watching the youngin’ homer-thon compared to our the past peaked almost homers doesn’t help either.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

.333/.405/.512 line in 143 PAs with the Lancaster (CA) JetHawks. He was named Baseball America High Class A All-Star. And he just turned 20 on 9/18.

End-of-year report on top 50 prospects – includes:

2) Domonic Brown, OF, Philadelphia Phillies, Grade A: Hit .261/.391/.370 with 12 steals in Triple-A, then.245/.333/.394 in 184 major league at-bats. He’ll be fine, he just needs to play.

5 Questions with Tim De Block of The Crawfish Boxes, which includes:

TDB: I wasn’t happy that the Astros went for quantity over quality, and that four of the ten prospects returned were relievers. It appears that they took the Phillies to the cleaners, broke even with the Giants, and got fleeced by the Braves. Obviously, over time those opinions could change, but at this point the Astros did an okay job at the trade deadline. The prospect that looks to be really special is Jonathan Singleton. He’s got the potential to be that elite middle of the order bat that the Astros desperately need.

Do people think he’ll start next year in AA (Corpus Christi Hooks), or stay in Lancaster and maybe move up mid-year?

-------
Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011

by schmenkman on Oct 6, 2011 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Crazy part about Singleton is he’s the guy management had no problem saying was available, And also the guy who wasn’t enough.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

  So what should we expect for Ibanez? Jackson was burning him with fast balls. Are we entering Frost Koffin times?

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Crapshoot man. a guy can go 350/400/600 with 7 HR over 106 Plate appearances and still go 0-12 three games in a row…

But that said, See my comments below.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

My guess is AA for all of ’12.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Anybody know what the park/league adjustment would be for Singleton? As I understand it, Lancaster is one of the hitter-friendliest ballparks in the minors, in a very hitter-friendly league.

by phatj on Oct 6, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, here’s one list, showing California as very hitter-friendly, while Sally League is very pitcher-friendly.

This one is from 2006, with similar findings. Hmm…

-------
Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011

by schmenkman on Oct 6, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man, I knew the Brewers had a crazy home/road split this year, but it’s like watching a different team when they’re away from Miller Park.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

At least we’re 2-2 after being up 2-0.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You either?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe it’s just me but the Cardinals seem like a much stronger team than the D-Backs as well.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps. I basically think that a] the bottom of the order is playing exceptionally well, b] they are receiving help from the Montessori-esque Phillies approach at the plate is and Manuel’s concept of short series strategy that relies soley on a LaRussian late inning fuck-ups.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think any of teams would’ve been just as problematic. I thought the team was firing on all cylinders or at least had been to the post season enough to know that they had pack their big boy batting pants.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree- this is not last year when really good pitching made the Phillies bats look awful in the NLCS. At this point anyone could beat them because the bats are beyond dead.

Offense, offense where are you?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think it’s interesting that we’re so sure it’s not “good pitching” that has beaten the Phillies.

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let me put it this way: I think the Garcia game was well pitched on the part of the Cardinals. He was throwing a ton of strikes, so unless the hitter could foul a lot of pitches off, the at bats were bound to be short.

In the Jackson game (and in the Carpenter game on Sunday), it looked like the plate approach was bad, as the Phillies were swinging at a lot of garbage out of the zone.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 9:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If a Phillies pitcher got outs on batters swinging at balls out of the zone, would we say it was a result of their pitching, or of the batters’ poor approaches?

I’m not trying to suggest that the Phillies in fact have had the best possible approaches in these games. I’m merely trying to suggest that it’s not so simple as many are making it out to be.

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it depends- if he is doing it all evening long, and the batters are getting no smarter, it is both. My annoyance with the Phillies hitters is not so much that they have a bad approach in one at bat as the absolutr failure to adjust.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The weird thing is that most of their crazy split was being absolutely a black hole during the first half- I think they may even have managed to have a winning record on the road in the second half.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Honestly, I feel much better about the series now than I did after Game 2. Maybe it’s because we’ll know the definite series outcome in two days, but I also feel good because we’ve got Roy going and I trust him to have a stellar outing.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by alcatraz0109 on Oct 6, 2011 1:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Also, the Cardinals defense/bullpen/bottom of the order can’t keep overperforming like they have.

…right? :(

"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews

by Senor Octubre on Oct 6, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

My inner Cthulhu says, “sure why not”

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

they already compiled their 10 allotted combined duck snorts and infield singles…regression

"Francisco...that's fun to say! Francisco...Francisco" - Buddy

by DirtyWaters on Oct 6, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ask the 2010 Giants.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ask the Tampa Bay Rays about statistically improbable events and whether they eventually run out.

Eventually, if you play long enough, you WILL have a run of bad luck. It’s not a matter of if, but when. Hopefully, for the Cards, their run starts (and ends) tomorrow. Hopefully, for Philly it starts after the World Series sometime.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really you could ask either.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

well, for one thing, the ineptness of the Cardinals bullpen was vastly over-stated coming in…. most of their shitty guys (like Ryan Franlin) are long gone.

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

D-Backs win. So there will be three game fives in the next two days.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 1:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Hell of a postseason

19 of 20 possible division series games played, after having wildcard and homefield races come down to the last day in both leagues.

My question for Bud Selig:

by ABSOLUTLEY on Oct 6, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think anything entertains Bud Selig. Except maybe finding new ways to destroy baseball

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Needs more Squirrel!!!!!

I am VERY entertained!

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 5:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The DBacks winning means the Phillies’ Game Five has an 8:37 start time.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Oct 6, 2011 1:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Woot!!! I will be getting off the train just in time for the game to start- yay for real time radio!

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 5:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Just because both bear repeating.

Fantastic regular season. Whatever happens in the playoffs has no bearing on that.

We win, they win, we win, they win… Pattern says we go to the NLCS and we get that celebration at home if it happens.

by Sisko on Oct 6, 2011 6:43 AM EDT reply actions  

that icon looks like Victorino slipping in the outfield

I felt like I thought it hit me - Chase Utley

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

it’s kinda nice to know that all hands will be on deck.

With Lee and Hamels available, we can actually have an advantage in the bullpen.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 8:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Maybe. Breaking a pitcher’s routine is always something of a crap shoot.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

???

Lee won’t be available tomorrow, and if you pitch Hamels, then you have to throw Oswalt in game two of the LCS.

You won’t need either of them.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Inky said Lee is available. I agree with dannijd and am always nervous when they talk about putting starters in the bullpen suddenly. Joey’s doing fine with it but he didn’t pitch all year in a set routine like these other guys.

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Available yesterday or available tomorrow? He was available yesterday cause it was his bullpen day. He waited till game time to throw his bullpen.

Throwing him tomorrow is different.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tomorrow, Friday, he would be available. Don’t have the paper in front of me but it was in one of those myriad articles. Doesn’t seem like a good plan, though, since he would start NLCS Game 2 on Monday.

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

And then you sat behind that awful girl who got blasted and almost whipped my eye out with a rally towel at NLCS Game Six.

Did I mention she had a seven year old boy?

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lee would pitch Game 1 on Sunday.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 5:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You’re right, duh. I’m in this “Halladay pitches every Game 1” mode. (I wish.)

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cole would not pitch until Monday either way which means Friday would be his usual pen session either way. He could throw an inning of relief in lieu of the pen session and be available to pitch his scheduled start.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 10:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If Hamels is needed in relief of Halladay, we have bigger problems.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

It has nothing to do with needing anything. It’s game 5—we can’t wait until we “need” our best options to use them. We already need all of the help we can get. So do the Cards.

The point is that Hamels could easily be the best option at any point in the 7th or 8th inning. I mean come on—he’s an ace, on his bullpen day. Speaking of Hamels—Halladay could go all Cole Hamels on us and pitch 6 shutout innings. Having an upgraded bullpen would allow Halladay to just pitch and not worry about about pitch count. With as many pitches as the Cards are taking this series, I for one would welcome a pair of aces in the bullpen.

Or maybe Halladay just pitches a complete game 7-0 victory, and all of this talk is m00t.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

At this point, I’d rather see Hamels in relief than Bastardo.

by phatj on Oct 6, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point was that if Hamels is used, it wont be in the 9th inning. Hamels coming in to the game tonight means Halladay got hit, squuezed, etc…

Roy Halladay will not come out tonight before the 8th inning unless something goes terribly wrong.

Bank on it.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 7, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on the situation-Cardinals were really good at running Cole’s pitch count up- let’s say Halladay goes 6, pitch count is up, but he hasn’t given up runs- game is tight and lefties coming up- who do you use there?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 5:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

uh, I use halladay.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everybody chill.

You guys realize that this has all led up to Ibanez hitting a grand slam with two outs, down by 1-0 in the 6th inning friday, right?

Right?

relax. Rauls got this.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 9:25 AM EDT reply actions  

relax. Rauls got this.

Why do I not feel better?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

+1

I get the frustration, but let’s respect those trying to pick each other up.

by Sisko on Oct 6, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

sometimes I wonder if you’d actually be a little disappointed if we won the whole thing.

have some faith.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disappointed, no- stunned… Yes!

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 5:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That’s pretty dumb.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Catztradamus I trust.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you meant Carlos Ruiz.

3-run triple to put the game away.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Halladay. Hot Raul. Home.
I feel pretty good about this.

by essman on Oct 6, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Get it done Roy. I know you will

The Jruth shall be told.

by packimop on Oct 6, 2011 9:27 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

It’s going to be a nervous two days before Friday’s game.

by JoshuaR on Oct 6, 2011 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

One year ago tonight, Doc threw a no-hitter in his first-ever playoff game start. Save our season, Roy.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 10:13 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This. Please.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 10:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes please!

www.southpawcurve.tumblr.com - check out my baseball blog!!

by JLS89 on Oct 6, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was there, and also joined TGP on the same day. Omen.

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks dajafi

Last night was an unfortunate confluence of “big boy” responsibilities, seeing as I had to be in Court very early this morning, other family obligations, so dajafi, thank you for stepping up on an excellent recap of a turdworthy event.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 10:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Phillies’ odds on Friday: 62.5%

Too high or too low?

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 10:42 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it’s about right, but I guess it could stand to be slightly higher.

It is in Philly after all, so that put’s it over 50%. Add in Doc pitching and I could see it in the 60-65% range. I think because he is opposed by Carpenter as opposed to Lohse, Jackson or Garcia that is what keeps it from being even higher.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that was basically my thought process too. To clarify, the 62.5 was just my own attempt to guess at the odds. They’re not from Vegas or anything.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ever consider getting into bookmaking?

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hear they might be legalizing it in Delaware, right? Maybe I should explore opportunities.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

extremely profitable business

the only problem i ever foresaw was that you basically get enjoyment out of other’s misery

I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Oct 6, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

We do that every time our favorite team wins.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Oct 6, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sports betting is legal in Delaware, but is run by the Delaware lottery, at the casinos and racetracks- so not an opportunity for an enterprising sports fan.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I agree about the number, but have more respect for Garcia than you do, as I would give the Phillies about the same chances against Garcia as Carpenter.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Beyond the Box Score had the Phillies with something like an 88% chance to win the series before last night’s game. Needless to say I’ll be rather annoyed if the Phillies don’t pull it out.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Didn’t they also have the Braves and Red Sox at a 100% chance of making the post season?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Odds are overrated- just because a team has a good chance does not mean that the single outcome will be the desired one.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 11:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You clearly don’t understand what odds are and how they work.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Allow me to illustrate.

A: “The odds of flipping a coin four times and getting four heads are 15-to-1 against.”

B: [gets four heads] “See? This proves that odds are overrated. Just because there is a good chance of getting something other than four heads doesn’t mean it will happen.”

B’s statement is dumb. I hope everyone understands why.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

But sir, the odds of surviving a direct attack on an Imperial Star Destroyer are 4,675,246 to 1!

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I realize it isn’t conceptually consistent, but I can only hope the Cardinals represent Porkins in this thought experiment.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who or what is Porkins?

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, sorry — I assume everyone loves Porkins as much as I do. He’s the fat, bearded rebel who dies in the attack on the Death Star. Reference.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joe Blanton before his career change

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

is he the “stay on target” guy?

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same actor as the “Top. Men.” guy in Raiders of the Lost Ark, too!

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, really?? Haha, what a treasure.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

William Hootkins. Also played Lietenant Eckhart in the 1989 “Batman.”

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS!

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hehehe!

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Too low.

What everyone is forgetting is that its NOT the start on short rest that gets to a pitcher, its the next one.

Law of averages says that 5 things are bound to happen friday:

1. Carpenter will go 6 innings at most
2. The Cards Pen is bound to due to blow up and regress.
3. The hard hit balls coming off our bats are BOUND to start finding holes, and we will erupt for runs.
4. Pujols is going to drive in a run or 2, if he’s up with runners on base.
5. The 6,7,8 hitters for the Card arent going to keep up the pace they’ve been on.

If Roy can keep the bases empty for Pujols, and pitch around Berkman and Holliday we win easily. EASILY.

75% So sayeth Catstradamus.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

wait, there’ve been hard hit balls? I thought all the Phillies have been doing is swinging at garbage…

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thats a fallacy.

Everyone bitched about pitch selection in game 3, for example. in the first 6 innings, not counting sac bunts, the phillies took the first pitch in 70% of their AB’s. They fell behind in the count more often than not.

Howard and Pence are the only two guys who ahve been consistently swinging first pitch all series.

There have been a TON of balls hit hard right at people last two games.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

I think our perspective on approaches is a lot different if some of those batted balls are hits.

Also, talk about the offense all you want, but in order to win either game 2 or 4, the Phillies would have had to score at least 6 runs.

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

3-5 in the order is a combined 10-46 with 1 extra base hit, (Howards HR in game 1) 3 BB and 8 K’s. Victorino hasn’t walked or struck out in the series.

thats a .217/.265/.326 line.

6-8 is 5-34 with 1 Extra base hit (Rauls bomb in game 1.) 0 BB 9 K’s.

thats a .147/.147/.264 line.

collectively, 3-8 is hitting .187/.216/.262 on the series. with 3 BB and 17K’s.

Rollins and Utley?

.517/.588/.827 that slugging is correct, with ZERO HR’s. 1.415 OPS with 6 2B, 1 3B, 4 BB and 3 K’s

Utley and Rollins have 1 RBI COMBINED in the series.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except each other. With them hitting over .500, I figured that was reasonable.

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Utley can theoretically knock Rollins in, but Rollins can’t knock Utley in.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know, Taco, despite all appearances to the contrary, I am aware that the batting order is unidirectional…

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neutrino Rollins would be able to.

by essman on Oct 6, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yup. I couldn’t believe it either.

But here’s the crazier part. for as crappy as the offense has been behind them, Utley and rollins have been on base 16 times in the series.

They’ve crossed home plate 11 times.

Pence has been on base 6 times. He’s driven in 4 and scored 3 times.
Howards been on base 3 times. He’s driven in 6 runs and scored once (HR)
Vic’s been on base 4 times. Driven in 2, and scored twice.
Ibanez on base 3 times. Driven in 4, scored once.
Polly and Chooch have rerached 1st base 4 times. Chooch scored on franciscos HR.

Somehow, as DEAD as the bats have really been, we’ve managed 21 runs off of 34 hits.

and we’re not really leaving RISP. Once we light the bats up tomorrow, watch the F out.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

When Jimmy scores, the Phillies win! Or not.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not trying to be negative here but part of the problem with looking at those overall figures today is that 10 of those runs were in the last three innings of game one. That’s almost half of the runs in 3/35 of the innings. The other 32 innings? They’ve scored 11 runs and scored in only six innings.
I certainly hope you are right about the pitcher who pitches on short rest feeling the effects the next start.

by phillyinportland on Oct 6, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. In a short series the aggregate data doesn’t necessarily mean much. You have to contextualize it.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s 5 games of nerve wracking stituational baseball. wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

whoops

*situational baseball. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

take out game one, and they still scored 10 runs on only 20 base hits.

the point I was making is that we’ve been driving runs in for the most part. WHEN (not if) the bats get hot tonight, and Halladay pitches his gem, we’ll be laughing tomorrow.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 7, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

What everyone is forgetting is that its NOT the start on short rest that gets to a pitcher, its the next one.

Even though Carpenter only managed 64 pitches in Game 2? Wow, I knew starters starting on 3 days frequently produces bad results, but I did not realize that it was worse on the next start, even given regular rest.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Oct 6, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that he went 64 pitches may factor in somewhat, but if you think about it purely physically, its all about routine. You alter it to go on short rest, but need MORE TIME to recuperate fully.

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Oct 6, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is what Halladay was saying, but not sure if that was just his experience or something more.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is there any statistics to back up the whole start after short rest thing? I was looking for them last night and could not find it.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 12:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Most of these points you make seem inaccurate.

I’d like to see some numbers on Point #1. I’ve seen Halladay say it, but even the smartest humans make anecdotal points that don’t apply to everyone. Needless to say, I’m not too worried about Carp here.

As to #2, I’ve been dying to comment here forever on this point, but our pen is awesome. I know, we have so many blown saves, but the people who come in the game are actually rock solid. I think I’ll post their saber stats below if you guys like because you are vastly underrating it. It’s not like how the Giants O in 2010 magically become good.

BABIP doesn’t stabilize in one game. It’s a logical fallacy to assume because we’ve been lucky, we’ll all of a sudden become unlucky. If we played you 100 times, I’d agree. But there’s about as good a chance we stay lucky as if we have a .200 BABIP in this next one game.

  1. is basically my point with the BABIP comment except I agree with you. No way they bat like .500 tomorrow. However, Yadi and Berkman are batting .200 so I think it’s fair that this almost cancels each other out on this one

President of the Tyler Greene fan club - Wiki - PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE
Tyler Greene Fanclub - Free admission, just promote playing time for TGreene
TWITTER Google+

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 6, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, that last point, replace 1. with #5

That is that our 6-7-8 hitters being mind-blowingly good will be cancled out by Berkman and Yadi.

President of the Tyler Greene fan club - Wiki - PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE
Tyler Greene Fanclub - Free admission, just promote playing time for TGreene
TWITTER Google+

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 6, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

sounds about right

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

My own calculations, based on the following estimates:
Both teams have equal and average offenses (In reality they are somewhat above average, so my probabilities will be biased in favor of the underdog).
No home field advantage (biased in favor of the Cards)
Both starters will go 9 innings (probably biased in favor of the Phillies)
Bold numbers are the Phillies WP. Here we go…

ERA 65%
FIP 63%
xFIP 58%
SIERA 60%
WPA:56%

I think this is a conservative guess from Philadelphia’s point of view. The bookies have Philly at around 63%, which is probably right on target IMHO.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both teams have equal and average offenses

Cards lead or tied for the lead in the NL in Runs, Total Bases, Average, OBP, SLG, OPS, wOBA, wRC+, WAR. I think its safe to give that edge to the Cardinals.

by all4tookie on Oct 6, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, there is no edge. The full-year stats include two months without Chase Utley. After May, the Phillies and Cardinals scored roughly the same number of runs.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are also ignoring park factors - Busch Stadium is the 25th best run scoring environment

and it’s not like the Cardinals were without injuries – if you add back Utley’s missed time, you should add back the weeks Pujols and Holliday missed as well

by all4tookie on Oct 6, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. I understand that Busch Stadium is a pitcher’s park, but CBP is a neutral park, and the difference between them just isn’t that large. The Cardinals also play more road games in hitter-friendly environments than the Phillies do, which mitigates part of that differential.

If you add Pujols’ and Holliday’s time back in, then you would also have to add back Howard’s, Rollins’, and Victorino’s time, not to mention the time that Pence spent not on the team. It’s an impossible task. But when you have one player out for two whole months, and the two months were the first two months of the season making it easy to cut them off, and the dropoff from him to his backup is simply enormous, then it’s perfectly reasonable to use that as a shortcut without worrying about all the other little noise that goes in both directions. This isn’t about “adding back Utley’s missed time.” It’s about getting at the relevant question, which is not “which offense performed better in 2011?” (the question you were answering), but “which offense is better among the two that are currently on the field in the NLDS?”

A more scientific way of looking at the question would be to tally up the park-neutral luck-neutral rate stats of the guys who are currently on the field. I don’t have time for that, but feel free to do it yourself and report on the results. That would certainly be much more fruitful than just looking at the irrelevant full year stats and saying it’s safe to give the edge to the Cardinals, when it isn’t.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the Tacopal Logicdome™, all4tookie!

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

touche, all good points.

Just wanted to see the rationale behind equating the two offenses without having done this legwork. Perhaps my evidence was shitty (it was). So here is some more to answer the more relevant question.

The best metric I know of that is readily available, linear weights based, and park adjusted is wRC+. (Caveat that it is not based on batted ball profiles, but that is outside the scope of this exercise. I couldn’t even begin to do that for the Cardinals, much less the Phillies). Anyway, results based on projected lineups:

The advantage the Cardinals enjoy for the median batter (123 vs. 112 ) is exactly the same as the advantage Ryan Howard has vs. Jon Jay.

Moreover, the Cardinals have Allen Craig on the bench (158 wRC+), a decided advantage over Mayberry (133) or Francisco (94).

There are other factors to consider (ie these are composite numbers – don’t reflect splits, only 1 year worth of data, I have completely ignored Carpenter vs. Halladay, Holliday’s injury? etc), but I think you have a tough case that the two projected Game 5 offenses are equal.

Thanks for letting me play in the Logicdome™. I’m glad Tony La Russa doesn’t.

by all4tookie on Oct 6, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

not sure why that graphic looks like shit, hopefully legible

by all4tookie on Oct 6, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks, that is a better argument. However, Pence’s wRC+ should be 143 and Furcal’s should be 84. You are using only post-acquisition wRC+ for each of them, which is inconsistent.

I’d also be curious to see what the comparison looks like if you use different cutoffs, which you sort of allude to. (2 years? 1/2 year?) One year is as good a cutoff as any, but they’re all arbitrary.

by taco pal on Oct 7, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you look at only the projected starters for game 5, take their runs above replacement, divide that by the number of games they played in, you get a good idea of a team’s RAR/game.

I did the calculations and Philly came out ahead by a practically insignificant margin: 1.98-1.90.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

the problem I see with this methodology - tony la russa

a bunch of the Cardinal regulars (Berkman, Freese, Schumaker) often get lifted in the 7th inning for defensive replacements (or in the case of Jay, was a defensive replacement himself). I have no way of quantifying how many lost PA this would amount to – but moving to a PA denominator would certainly correct this dilution. Not sure if the Phillies encounter the problem to a similar degree.

(also is RAR park adjusted? Don’t think it is. I think this would be a factor as well.)

by all4tookie on Oct 6, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting. I would have figured it would have been a little higher than that.

Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Oct 6, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not. While home field advantage is worth a small amount, as is Halladay, Carpenter is no slouch, and in a one game series, so much can go either way.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 1:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think the current betting midpoint is 63.5% Sounds close to right.

The shocking thing for me, is that the World Series odds for the Phillies right now are 30.2% (again, taking the midpoint). Source

Put these two together, and the implied odds of the Phillies winning the World Series, given that they win this game 5, are 47.5%. That strikes me as very high.

by Vaughn Haze on Oct 6, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

that seems way high

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

So if their probability of winning the LCS and WS are equal, they have a 69% chance of winning each. Yeah, that does seem high.

Of course, their probability each series isn’t equal, I don’t think. I’d put them at 50-50 vs. the Yankees, and only somewhat higher than that vs. the Rangers. The Tigers would be higher but not enough to make the overall odds equal to the NLCS odds. So 75% to win the NLCS? Maybe if we knew it would be the D-Backs, but not with a coin flip between D-Backs and Brewers.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, dissecting it a bit deeper, there is some incredible implied world series odds for the Phillies.

:
Game 5 Win -180 Loss +169

Phils to Win NLCS Yes +117 No -132

Phils to Win World Series Yes +218 No -245

So the scheme:
Bet 100 to win117 Phils to Win NLCS
Bet 245 to win 100 that Phils do not win World Series

Yields:
If Phils do not make World Series: net 0
If Phils win World Series: win 117, lose 245 = net loss 128
If Phils lose World Series win 117, win 100 = net win 217

Implied World Series odds: Phils win World Series if they get there = 62.9% ?!?!?!

Insanity.

by Vaughn Haze on Oct 6, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you have to consider that public perception goes into those odds. With the Phillies recent success, they’re a popular team, they’re going to be bet on heavily. Oddsmakers adjust for that, so it’s not neccessarily their mathematical odds.

Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive

by Eaglesadvocate on Oct 6, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

This morning I thought of Liz’s superstition article cause the 2 games that the Phils have lost, I’ve followed them on my phone, watched/listened to the 8th and 9th, and have been with my same friend. Needless to say, tomorrow night I’m sitting on my bed, by myself, not moving while watching it and on this game thread for the whole game.

www.southpawcurve.tumblr.com - check out my baseball blog!!

by JLS89 on Oct 6, 2011 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Thank you for your sacrifice. :<)

by phillyinportland on Oct 6, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gary Cederstrom umping home plate tomorrow. If Larry Andersen is to be believed, he sucks too.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

To be fair, the only umpires Larry Andersen doesn’t think suck are Joyce and Larry Andersen.

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was able to find one game of Cederstrom’s (he might have taken some time off in late September).

Just going off of one game, possibly a wide zone, but not necessarily generous with low strikes. Also a little inconsistent it seems.

by Vaughn Haze on Oct 6, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate how much of a momentum crusher howard’s ab with the pence steal was. Both calls were clearly blown and gave edwin jackson a new boost of confidence because that inning could have gotten ugly. Quite the bummer, but Roy’s wildness in a couple innings did not help things. Also, that pitch in howard’s first ab? Barely called the strike the rest of the game. Bah.

by PhilsForever on Oct 6, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it actually was a strike, but you’re quite right that it didn’t seem to be one the rest of the game…

No reason for Pence to be running there. He may or may not have actually safe (I haven’t seen a replay since the first couple, and I found them inconclusive at the time), but that doesn’t mean much.

But I also agree about that play being the game changer, much like Polanco’s GIDP in the first inning in game 2. They had a chance to really build a lead quickly evaporate.

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Running on that play really annoyed me. I really think losing Davey Lopes hurt us – we learned to steal from him, but not when to steal. Or something. I’m frustrated and had bad dreams.

It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.

by Dr. Steve on Oct 6, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it hurt the guys who didn’t learn from him. Rollins, Utley, & Victorino are still top notch, but the rest….

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those first three at-bats were pure bliss. I was sitting there and felt confident and secure. My team wasn’t going to let me down, they played some good small ball and got to the pitcher early.

I was in my local pizza shop. Howard came up, everyone groaned, began chatting, and then everything went wrong.

I hate it. At this point, I want Howard to become no-swing Pat Burrell.

It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.

by Dr. Steve on Oct 6, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

though perhaps he would have been better off swinging on that occasion….

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weren’t the first two pitches straight down the middle?

It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.

by Dr. Steve on Oct 6, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

the first one was…. I’m a little confused by the Brooks chart, though. It shows the second pitch as low (and called a ball), and the 6th as a strike, but doesn’t show the 3rd or 5th pitches…. I thought he’d fallen behind 0-2 before working it full, but maybe it was 1-1

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

So do they all have the green light, the rest that is. I hope not.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

pitch looked a little off the plate to me, but pence was definitely safe, he clearly beat the tag

by PhilsForever on Oct 7, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, Gameday Classic has that pitch right on the line.

I feel like there’s a pattern to Howard’s ABs. First pitch – fastball for a called strike. Second pitch – off speed pitch in the zone, fouled off. Third pitch – off speed pitch out of the zone, swing and a miss. Probably just perception though.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

that definitely seems to be the pattern on those at bats where he Ks on three pitches… some variation has the second pitch a fast ball, in the zone, but not a good pitch to hit, fouled off

thing is, if he started jumping on that first pitch get-it-over strike, pitchers would no doubt stop throwing it first…

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s a time and a place to swing first pitch.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

a time to hit, a time to whiff
a time to take, a time to dive

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Run, swing to drive, drive to hit, do or die
Won’t you run? Swing to drive, drive to hit
Aces high

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brooks baseball has the pitch inside the line:

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah it was a strike, and although Pence was probably out I still say there’s no need to even attempt to steal there. Too little reward for too much risk.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree- Howard does not ground into many DPs.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Also, attention Phillies lefthanded hitters: If Arthur Rhodes gets an 0-2 on you, DO NOT SWING AT THE NEXT PITCH. IT’S ALWAYS A BALL!

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

isn’t that true of most pitchers, though? if not a ball they’ll at least work the corners with 0-2 because they know the batter has to swing at anything that’s even close.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know when I play Wii Baseball, when I’m up 0-2, my next pitch is a sinker. EVERY. DAMN. TIME. And it always looks like a fastball that they lay off it. And then when they learn my pattern I throw a FASTBALL!! OH MAN!! BEING A PITCHER IS SO EASY!!

It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.

by Dr. Steve on Oct 6, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rhodes doesn’t work the corners at 0-2. It’s always the exact same pitch. Slider that starts at the corner and then breaks low and away, well outside the zone.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah ok then.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, if you always work the corners, then it’s by definition not always a ball. So no, that isn’t true of other pitchers, and Rhodes isn’t like other pitchers.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

On an 0-2 count 49% of the time a strike is thrown. It’s the one count your mostly likely to see a ball.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hitting against Arthur Rhodes is like beating Bald Bull in Punch Out: it’s about patterns.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not nervous until..

a friend reminded me of the Phillies “steady decline”

’08 World Series Winner
’09 World Series Loser
’10 NLCS Loser
’11 NLDS Loser?

and he added..
’12 Wild Card Winner, NLDS Loser
’13 No playoffs

:(

by KidretDes on Oct 6, 2011 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Someone doesn’t understand correlation and causation!

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

My reply of ‘whatever’ didn’t help my argument. lol

by KidretDes on Oct 6, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahaha, I admire the restraint.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought of this too, although my next year prediction would be the Phillies back to winning the World Series. I’d gladly trade this series for a Series win next year.

by The Howling Fantods on Oct 6, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Winning a WS once every four years is acceptable.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

clarify comment please- you’d agree to lose this NLDS if it would guarantee a WS win next year?

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

and, by "Deal with the Devil"

I mean, go get your coat…

"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998

by MikeEinNC on Oct 6, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hell yes I would. Winning tomorrow does not guarantee the Phillies even make the World Series, let alone win it. There is also no guarantee the Phillies succeed next year either.

by The Howling Fantods on Oct 6, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would not take this deal because I want to watch more Phillies playoffs now. There is no guarantee we will be alive next season.

I was wondering what size animal it needed to be to not be a pitch. - Roy Oswalt

by SandPhlea on Oct 6, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one noticed this with that T-Shirt they put out? It’s amusing to me, but also very sad. 2009 stung for a long, long time.

It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.

by Dr. Steve on Oct 6, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep the phaith, my friends.

The last time Roy Halladay pitched an elimination game, BaseBa’al tried to strike him down with a groin strain and he still won it.

by Sisko on Oct 6, 2011 1:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Phillies fans, good luck and may the worse team win.

As for the bullpen comment, the Cards bullpen is fine. I know where the idea that they sucked came from (Franklin, Batista, Miller – ALL gone), but they are debatably as good as yours if not better. (Well, clearly better if you remove all of your starters in my mind).

Anyway, here’s the xFIP and FIPs of the bullpen members

Boggs – 60.2 IP, 3.44 FIP, 3.66 xFIP
Salas – 75 IP, 3.16 FIP, 3.62 xFIP
Scrabble – 63 IP, 3.14 FIP, 3.18 xFIP
Motte – 68 IP, 2.48 FIP, 3.39 xFIP
Dotel – 54 IP, 3.23 FIP, 3.34 xFIP (1.57 FIP with Cards!!)

I’m just going to ignore Rhodes, but Howard bats .231 lifetime versus lefties and Ibanez is batting .211 this year versus lefties (I don’t need to tell you why he’s a different hitter than in his career I assume). So basically Rhodes will only face those two guys who are awful.

President of the Tyler Greene fan club - Wiki - PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE
Tyler Greene Fanclub - Free admission, just promote playing time for TGreene
TWITTER Google+

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 6, 2011 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Did you come here just to brag about your bullpen and shit on our LHBs?

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he wishes the “worst team to win,” and obviously, according to him, that’s US! Yay!!!!

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

PHILLIES SUCK

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is OK, it’s not like he’s trolling. And I’m pleased he brought evidence to the table, at least.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baby steps.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, no haha. I can see how that came across though.

I’ve been reading the threads and I saw a bunch of “their bullpen can’t possibly continue this stretch because they are awful” which is mostly a misconception thanks to our April.

The bullpen is very good basically is what I’m saying.

President of the Tyler Greene fan club - Wiki - PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE
Tyler Greene Fanclub - Free admission, just promote playing time for TGreene
TWITTER Google+

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 6, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotcha. That was definitely not the message I took from your first post.

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry. I frequently come across as a dick on the internet.

President of the Tyler Greene fan club - Wiki - PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE
Tyler Greene Fanclub - Free admission, just promote playing time for TGreene
TWITTER Google+

by stlcardsfan4 on Oct 6, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am holding out hope that the Phillies bullpen will not make an appearance tomorrow.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this the first time the Phillies have gone the distance in a postseason series since 1980?

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 1:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Indeed it is. Wasn’t sure about 1983, but neither series went the distance that year. 1980 was the only other time it happened, in fact.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strike that. It also happened in 1981 vs. the Expos. But some people don’t count that as a “real” postseason series.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Strike that”

Good one.

by Vaughn Haze on Oct 6, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see what you did there…

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha. Subconscious joke FTW.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am still in shock that Pujols had the wherewithal to make that decision.

by Vaughn Haze on Oct 6, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth, from the other side...

I always enjoy reading the blogs on both SBN sites for any big game or series (in multiple sports), it’s interesting to get multiple viewpoints or opinions on big games like this. People seem cool enough over here.

I actually don’t think Utley’s decision was too risky whatsoever and I hope all the various sportswriters don’t try to pin anything on him that he doesn’t deserve. The reason Utley has a lot of fans outside of Phillies nation is because he plays hard and aggressive. He made a great read on Furcal and Pujols made a great read on him — it was really just two great players both taking a calculated risk that could’ve gone either way; each time I see the replay, I’m still surprise the ball stayed in Freese’s glove. Had the ball popped out, everyone would be talking about how great Utley’s read on Furcal was and how Pujols’ should’ve taken the sure out.

Rams, Cardinals, Bulls. Life is good.

by JStymie on Oct 6, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the potential gain of taking the extra base far outweighed the risk. Bad decision by Utley, IMO, even without hindsight.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

By which I mean the RISK outweighed the REWARD.

I’m dumb.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Oct 6, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was the first baserunning error I ever saw Utley make since he got to the majors. Pretty shocking.

But I think Pence would have been out.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

 That’s why mainlining nihilism….Utley doesn’t do stupid shit like that . It totally felt like a "deseperate times calls for deseperate measures " type thing.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

It could be argued that the play on which he injured his thumb last year was an unwise decision, as he trying to stretch a single into a double and was thrown out…. but I realize that’s not really the same kind of mistake

by yolacrary on Oct 6, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

"That is part of the game, you get to this point and the pitchers you are facing are the best ones, just like the guys facing us," Phillies hitting coach Greg Gross said. "It comes down to an inning or certain situation."

Uhhh, next hitting coach… Seriously, study the video, have a plan when you go up to the plate and try NOT to roll over meekly as if there isn’t a whole opposite field awaiting your struck baseball. Not to single out anyone ::COUGH howard COUGH::

There’s gonna be misery past a Doc shutout Fri, with only 2 strong SPs and just 3 hitters

"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998

by MikeEinNC on Oct 6, 2011 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I know I shouldn’t bite, I really do, but: 2 strong SPs? Letting you slide with the Oswalt slight, who out of the top three is not strong? Are we talking in terms of rest?

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

just a general rant…I appreciate the gm Roy II brings lately, and Lee certainly can right his ship. My beef is in the ADDED pressure they must feel after watching their teammates flail at the plate.

"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998

by MikeEinNC on Oct 6, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah okay — I won’t nitpick your rant. I guess you were leaving Lee out, but frankly, given that it’s one game (that should have gone better for him), I don’t even think there’s really any righting of ships that needs to be done.

by Trev223 on Oct 6, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear Milt Thompson is available.

by taco pal on Oct 6, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hear Charlie Manuel is into that hitting part, also. Too

"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998

by MikeEinNC on Oct 6, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is the hitting coach

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

So is this sort of like why head coaches with offensive backgrounds so often have teams that are good on defense (see Brian Billick) and head coaches who were good on defense have good offensive teams as head coaches (see Tony Dungy).

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I sincerely hope you’re talking about Doc and Hamels. In the 2011 playoff samples, only Lee and Oswalt have coughed up leads and Lee’s lead was twice the size of Oswalt’s lead.

Doc coughed some up in the first inning, but dominated long enough afterward to allow the comeback. And Hamels perservered through six scoreless.

by Sisko on Oct 6, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was talkin ’bout Shaft…

"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998

by MikeEinNC on Oct 6, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Francisco's home run

Interesting article at FanGraphs:

Ranking Ben Francisco’s 3-Run Home Run by WPA (among playoff pinch-hit appearances, since 1988)

Ben Francisco’s pinch-hit 3-run home run for the Phillies in the top of the 7th inning of Tuesday’s Game 3 of the NLDS ranks 4th in WPA with a .407.

WPA refresher: here

-------
Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011

by schmenkman on Oct 6, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy cow. That’s fantastic.

by Phrozen on Oct 6, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just came across MLB Network’s 20 Greatest Games in last 50 seasons. It’s in Comcast OnDemand. #20 is the May 1979 game with the cubs. Also Game 5 with the Astros in 1980 and then there’s that 1993 game we wont’ talk about. Costas hosts.

by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 6, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, that sucked.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 7:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Two minute minor for cross-blogging?

by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 6, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was an accident. I got to box, I feel shame.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Little late to that conclusion?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hockey game. Accidentally posted in this thread.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah. How is it going?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Winning 2-1, end of 1st. Eff Boston.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there going to be a thread for tonight’s game?

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, that was a quick lead for Detroit.

"You play to win the playoffs, and we let 'em off the hook!" -Herm Mora Green

by jrobulls on Oct 6, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely… But the game is being held in a Little League Park.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Not that there’s anything wrong with that

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Oct 6, 2011 8:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Great thing about Yankee baseball games is you can watch an entire period of hockey and only miss one inning.

by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 6, 2011 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

How many LaRussa pitching changes are one period of hockey?

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Oct 6, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

0.78 (adjusted for average, but a small sample size)

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow a pitching change after two innings? this isn’t going to help Joe Girardi’s rep as an overmanager.

Giving St. Louis the bird since 1982

by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 6, 2011 8:44 PM EDT reply actions  

That’ll be fun to listen to on the radio tomorrow.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Oct 6, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well at least he knows what Ivan Nova is.

by j reed on Oct 6, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

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Friday, May 25, 2012, 8:15 PM EDT
Busch Stadium

Cliff Lee vs Kyle Lohse

Clear. Winds blowing from right to left field at 5-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 90.

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