Setting the Record Straight On the Phillies 2011 Season
by David S. Cohen on Oct 8, 2011 2:42 PM EDT
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PrintLet's get this out of the way immediately - last night was horrible. An otherwise amazing pitching duel on a picture perfect night to be outside watching a professional baseball game was ruined by the fact that the Phillies wound up on the losing end of the win-or-go-home Game 5.
I was fortunate enough to be in the crowd along with resident blog poet Wet Luzinski, and the disappointment after the game was palpable. The slow crowded walk down the ramps from the upper deck to the ground floor had the cadence, sound, and ambiance of a death march.
But I'm here the day after to set a few things straight and to point the blame the only place it can reasonably be placed - at the game of baseball.
First, Ryan Howard is not to blame for the Phillies not winning yesterday. Sure, Howard had a bad game and once again had the last Phillies plate appearance for the season. But Ryan Howard made 4 outs last night, not 27. Ryan Howard didn't miss the cut-off man in the first inning. Ryan Howard wasn't thrown out at second base on a stupid steal play. Ryan Howard didn't give up two extra-base hits to start the game. And Ryan Howard didn't strand the only two men the Phillies had in scoring position. In essence, last night's loss, the last of the season, was a team effort.
Second, the Phillies didn't lose because they played without emotion. They lost because they didn't score more runs than the other team. That's it. Whether they did it with emotion or without is irrelevant. If the team had played the exact same way but Raul Ibanez's fly ball in the fourth inning traveled a few more feet or Ryan Howard's soft liner in the same inning had been just out of the reach of the second baseman instead of just in his glove, would anyone care one bit about whether the team felt flat or not? Of course not. Psychobabble narratives are just post-hoc descriptions of athletic events that are used to justify fans' impressions of why the team won or lost and to avoid the fact that losses happen, even when a team is trying. All the athletes on the field last night were trying their hardest. Someone had to lose, and it happened to be the Phillies.
Third, the Phillies didn't lose because of their 8-game losing streak in late September. There is not one rational connection anyone can make between that losing streak, when the lineup was filled with the Pete Orrs and Eric Kratzes of the world, and what happened in the playoffs. After all, if you think one streak late in the season matters more than the other 102 wins going into the post-season, then why not look at the 4 game win streak that ended the season, 3 of the games coming against a team that had everything in the world to play for?
Fourth, the Phillies didn't lose to a bad team. They lost to a team with excellent players, including a phenomenal Chris Carpenter last night. No one should forget that as much as the Phillies are top-flight professional athletes, the St. Louis Cardinals are as well, and they had one of their best pitching at the top of his game yesterday.
Fifth, the premature end of the season doesn't change the fact that the Phillies were the best team in baseball in 2011. The team was dominant from start to finish in the regular season. They won more games than any other team. They made it look easy. They made their fans happy. Last night's disappointment should not erase the six month journey that was unlike anything we've ever seen before as Phillies fans. This team, even with losing to the Wild Card team, treated us to something special this year. That cannot be erased.
So who is to blame here? There's only one finger to point, and that's at the game of baseball itself. The baseball post-season, especially with the opening series being only 5 games, has nothing to do with who is the best team. Bad teams can beat good teams over the course of 5 games. There's no guarantee in such a short series, and we saw that last night.
And even in a longer series, baseball is a game where you have to accept that teams that are better can and do lose. It happens all the time. Games can be excellent, as last night's game was, and your team can still lose. Pitchers can pitch well, as Cliff Lee did Sunday night, but lose because almost all of the balls in play fell for hits, whereas almost none of Chris Carpenter's last night did.
This is how this game works. If you're looking for anyone else to point a finger at, you're missing the point. Baseball is a cruel sport, and we witnessed its cruel end last night. That's the only culprit here.
To the 2011 Philadelphia Phillies, thank you for an amazing season I will never forget. Let's do it again in 2012 and hope we get a better October result too.
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Agreed, mostly
But, like the 18-1 Pats, they really can’t console themselves with regular season dominance. The team that clicks on all cylinders at the right time has to be crowned as the best. It’s called “clutch.”
But no one play can be pointed to as crucial. It’s the fact that the Phils were very beatable that made any one of those plays hurt worse, and seemed to make gritty players like Utley overcompensate. I’ll try to remember the good times, though.
"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998
by MikeEinNC on Oct 8, 2011 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Well...
“The slow crowded walk down the ramps from the upper deck to the ground floor had the cadence, sound, and ambiance of a death march”
That seems a bit… dramatic.
HNNNNNNGGGGG
you referring to make-up 2xheaders?
"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998
metaphor? otherwise….
“The slow crowded walk down the ramps from the upper deck to the ground floor was sad.”
“The slow crowded walk down the ramps from the upper deck to the ground floor took a long time and there were a lot of people.”
or
“The slow crowded walk down the ramps from the upper deck to the ground floor had the cadence, sound and ambiance of a slow crowded walk down the ramps of the upper deck to the ground floor.”
have any of your own suggestions to improve or make more appropriate?
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all, sorry to be a politically-correct wet blanket here, but in its current form, I don’t see much difference between what he said and saying, "The slow crowded walk down the ramps from the upper deck to the ground floor had the cadence, sound, and ambiance of the Holocaust."
HNNNNNNGGGGG
Respectfully, in my opinion it’s a function of imagination to be able to contextualize a remark. What you are doing goes beyond the normal reach of political correctness. It seems to me that discourse requires work on the part of both speaker and listener in order to arrive at exchanges that don’t diminish one or the other and that also allow a full range of expression. In my opinion this statement is clearly in the listener’s place to contextualize.
You choose the Holocaust. Never mind that there is a considerable difference between a generic literary term “death march” – customarily used as metaphor without having been slapped into restriction by the politically correct crowd – and a specific reference to The Holocaust. Never mind that others might be offended that you didn’t choose one of the many other “death marches” in history (Mao’s work in China or Stalin’s work in Russia or the African slave trade were three that resulted in more deaths; European colonization in South America resulted in the deaths of a higher percentage of the target group).
He didn’t say “We trudged like [Jews, or gays, Communists, the mentally ill, the handicapped] to the furnace.” You really did most of the heavy lifting here.
As for the funeral procession, first of all they were walking away from the “funeral.” Secondly, how do you know he wasn’t feeling like he wanted to die at that moment (again, as metaphor)?
If you “don’t see much difference” between his words and your substitute that’s on you to fix. In this particular instance. IMO.
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Give me a break.
First you say I shouldn’t be contextualizing death march, then you accuse me of choosing prioritizing one atrocity over others. So: I’m either putting the Holocaust above everything else, or I’m contextualizing a word that represents hundreds of atrocities. It can’t be both. You argument just diffused itself.
And if you really want to know why I’m offended by the use of “death march” in such a flippant context, it’s because of the Trail of Tears. I’m half Choctaw. By your own flawed logic, the fact that you didn’t mention the Trail of Tears means you clearly don’t give a crap about it. But, again, that’s just your own flawed logic.
HNNNNNNGGGGG
I did not intend to accuse you of prioritizing atrocities. I understand why you came to that conclusion, and I apologize.
I disagree that using the term “the Holocaust” stands in for all such atrocities. You didn’t say ‘a holocaust’ It’s reasonable to think you were being specific.
I didn’t want to crowd the post with every atrocity committed against a group. I chose four, consciously choosing different regions of the world and that were devastating in number and/or in percentage.
I don’t believe I was using “logic” or making a “logical” argument. There are no “true” statements here. So for you to accuse me of “flawed logic” doesn’t really make sense. I was making an appeal to reason in interpreting words more broadly and allowing the use of metaphor. You can believe that I intentionally omitted the Trail of Tears and that doing so undercuts my effort. I did not do so and I don’t agree.
We’ll disagree on the appropriateness of the remark. In the interests of closing this in an orderly fashion I’m not going to bring up the examples of “politically correct” language that I could appeal to because of the facts of my life and my family’s, but do not because I believe the speaker meant no harm. Nor do I want to say that these facts are “worse” than yours. I’m sorry that the Trail of Tears happened to your blood or tribal ancestors.
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And, actually, I want you to contextualize the remark. You reply says I said you “shouldn’t.” That’s the opposite of what I want. So I’m having a hard time following the sense of the rest of your argument, other than that you found the remark offensive because of personal history.
But it doesn’t really matter. I’m ready to put it to bed (metaphorically).
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And to actually answer your question this time, I think “funeral procession” would be more tasteful than “death march.”
HNNNNNNGGGGG
Death march is a pretty common phrase. Taylor Swift even uses it in a song, so it’s really not all that controversial.
nice
"When life hands you lemons, make a profit." - Chet Cashley
"Float like a Butterfly, sting like a Bee; Make sure you got the ball in your hands, or else you won’t get a TD." - Joe Theismann
by Ralf E Chubbs on Oct 8, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This guy is annoying.
Might as well just hand them over.
by All ur Aces R Belong to Us on Oct 9, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks David, generally agree, but I disagree on the Carpenter/Lee BABIP argument. Carp was getting hella grounders, Lee was giving up fly balls and humpback liners which generally fall in more.
But overall yes, it was a team effort, and “BLAME RYAN” makes me want to puke a little bit.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
True, they were different types, but the ground balls could have easily gotten through instead of being right at people. Just like Lee’s fly balls and humpbacks could have gone to people instead of dropping.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 8, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely, but Carpenter kind of “made” better luck, if that makes sense.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
It does, but at the same time it’s not like Carpenter gave up no hard hit balls. Sure he pitched a great game but he was probably only slightly better than Halladay, and after the 1st inning it could easily be said that Halladay was actually better. It just happens.
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorta a wash. Liners mean batters are swinging at better pitches, though some were hit at fielders; and a coupla grounders made it through, but mostly it was a pull-over-the-ball meekfest. The Phils (lack of) hitting gameplan was exposed by a quality pitcher
"He's a bum...this one stinks...this jerk can't play."-- A father teaching his daughter the Phillies lineup from the program roster, the Vet, c.1998
Most of those groundballs were soft.
The two that weren’t were Chooch and JRoll in the 8th. Jimmy’s was ticketed up the middle before it deflected off of either the mound or Carp.
And it was likely an RBI single, too.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s amazing to me that we (I guess meaning SABR-minded people or something) are the ones most critical of Ryan Howard (or at least his contract) during the season but always have to defend him once the post-season comes around.
Interesting question
I think some of the criticism comes from his contract and his media perception. Advanced stats show that he is not worth the extension and is may not be as good as 1B he gets compared to such as Votto/Fielder, etc.
However, we also realize that he does not deserve all the blame for a series loss, even when he struggles in 5 games. We realize that 5 games is way too small of a sample to judge any one on, as it is too prone to wild fluctuations in production. We realize he is an easy scapegoat, being the highly paid cleanup hitter but we know that he does not deserve all the blame.
I totally agree. It is more about the change in questions being asked- you ask any of those Saber savvy people right now if a healthy Ryan Howard is worth his contract, they will still say no. But, if asked during the season whether a slumping Ryan Howard was the only reason the team is struggling, they would also say no- as individual a sport as baseball is, players do not win or lose, teams do.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 9, 2011 12:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
And David and I were observing that the lefty bats kept peppering the right field line with fair and foul bals, kind of indicating to me he had a good offspeed pitch and/or the Phillies were overswinging or somehow unable to wait on the ball and slap it to left. The righties, in like fashion, were putting it on the ground to the left side.
Cheers.
I keep reminding myself that it wouldn’t sting this bad if our team wasn’t so damn good all season. We really deserved to go all that way.
We could have been a bust from the get-go… like a certain team across the way.
Hmm. Anyone suddenly feeling a lot like a Philly sports fan right about now?
We really deserved to go all that way.
“Deserve” got nothin’ to do with it.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 8, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I said last week in my “nihilist preview” that the difference between great teams and very good teams is incredibly small in MLB, particularly in playoff series. I think that’s exactly what happened here.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Oct 8, 2011 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The team was dominant from start to finish in the regular season. They won more games than any other team. They made it look easy. They made their fans happy. Last night’s disappointment should not erase the six month journey that was unlike anything we’ve ever seen before as Phillies fans. This team, even with losing to the Wild Card team, treated us to something special this year. That cannot be erased.
Too right. This was a truly incredible season. Those who are lambasting the Phillies for failing lose sight of what a great ride we had from April through September.
After the ‘08 WS, I was listening to Jim Jackson do a season retrospective, in which he said “And this was a magical season.” I disagreed with that; in ’08 the team got hot at the right time and rode a golden rail all the way through the postseason. And that was awesome. I’ll remember that for the rest of my life. But the ‘08 season was honestly very frustrating at times. You had Brett Myers getting sent down, that interminable stretch when they could not score to save their lives, the losing record against the Mets (OTOH, going 9-0 at Turner Field was something else entirely), and Kyle Kendrick finally regressing to his true talent level. They weren’t the best team in the league, they just played like it when it counted.
This season was magical. This season was amazing. This team, despite the early exit, was special. For 162 games, they were the best team in the league. And nothing will ever change that.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 8, 2011 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This certainly was a team loss. Everyone, including Halladay, had a hand in it. But you’re right, it seems like the way most of these games progressed, a series win wasn’t in the cards (no pun intended). A millisecond earlier reaction by a hitter and a ball lands foul instead of rolling into the corner for a leadoff triple. Or a fraction of an inch more on the barrel of the bat and a warning track fly ball becomes a 3-run tank. But you certainly oughta tip your cap to the Cards hitters, they did a fine job finding a good pitch to hit and letting baseball do the rest. Us? Well…not so much, and it could be attributed to a number of factors. Not having a strong grasp on the strike zone and swinging (or not swinging) unnecessarily, not getting a good pitch to hit, trying too hard and taking bad swings, or just dumb luck. We got outplayed this series, and while it’s our “fault,” sometimes there’s not a whole lot that can be done about it.
Great read, David. It’s nice to know that level-headed fans still exist when everything goes south for the winter. I’m keeping my head up, in spite of all the ragging on I’m likely going to receive over the next few days.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
Cruel indeed
The 2004 Cardinals won 104 games and were swept out of the WS.
The 2006 Cardinals won 83 games and won the WS in 5 games.
It makes no sense. But that’s baseball.
by ajay on Oct 8, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
First point: So this. I’m really sick of Howard catching so much grief for this series, even to the point that people saying his injury will actually help the Phillies going into next year. Sure Howard stunk at the plate for the most part for the last four games of the seri es, but so did the greater part of the series. Also, how many times did Howard lead off an inning during the series because Pence and Utley either grounded out or created outs where there were none?
Second point:If anything one could say that the Phillies actually played with TOO MUCH emotion in this series. Between overrunning bases, bad decisions to steal, first pitch swinging, bad throwing decisions, and so forth the Phillies seemed to be pressing the issue a lot in this series when rationale would say that they should be letting the game come to them.
Third point: Really have nothing to add here. Anyone who says the Phillies’ eight game losing streak while the lineup was filled with AAA and AAAA players wasn’t really paying attention.
Fourth point: Yeah of course the Cardinals will good, and as a side point I would say that the Phillies didn’t make a mistake by not throwing the series and “letting” the Braves into the postseason. The Cardinals are a good team, and so are the Diamondbacks as well as the Braves. It’s hard to say if the result would have been any different if the Phillies were playing the Diamondbacks in a short series. And while it’s not much consolation right now, while the Phillies won’t win the championship neither will the Braves, so that’s satisfying in its own way.
Fifth point: once again nothing to add here. The Phillies were a great team despite this disappointment. It was a fun years.
And yes, baseball reared it’s cruel hand in this series. I mean the Cardinals didn’t hid a single home run in games 2-5 and yet went 3-1 in those games. How often does that happen? The Cardinals, while not necessarily lucky to win, did get more of the breaks in this series. It’s just one of those “well it happens” things. Baseball’s still the greatest sport there is, but unfortunately that means it can break your heart more than any other sport.
I do not post the right way.
actually
David freese hit a homer in game 4. I agree with what you said, just wanted to correct that small part.
by PhilsForever on Oct 8, 2011 6:48 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
oh yeah, oops.
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
First Point: I totally agree with you. While Howard was abysmal for most of the series at the dish, he was far from the only one. And as Cohen said in his write up- he did not leave the runners in scoring position on Friday night. I feel really bad for him, both for his injury and for the fact that he is the target of so much undeserved blame for this series.
Second Point: I can totally see what you are saying- and so could Charlie Manuel, who brought back the rubber ducks from 2008 in an effort to get the team to loosen up before Game 5.
Third Point: While I do not blame this loss on the streak, I find the assessment that the team was loaded with AAA and AAAA players during that period to also be untrue. Other than the first game of the Washington doubleheader, the games were played by mostly regulars- to a point that I was surprised because I fully expected Grapefruit League: Early Fall Edition,
Fourth Point: I pretty much agree. The Cardinals are a very good team. That being said, I wish the Phillies had played them a little better during the September series. The starters played, but the team looked really slowed down by
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 9, 2011 3:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
First Point: I totally agree with you. While Howard was abysmal for most of the series at the dish, he was far from the only one. And as Cohen said in his write up- he did not leave the runners in scoring position on Friday night. I feel really bad for him, both for his injury and for the fact that he is the target of so much undeserved blame for this series.
Second Point: I can totally see what you are saying- and so could Charlie Manuel, who brought back the rubber ducks from 2008 in an effort to get the team to loosen up before Game 5.
Third Point: While I do not blame this loss on the streak, I find the assessment that the team was loaded with AAA and AAAA players during that period to also be untrue. Other than the first game of the Washington doubleheader, the games were played by mostly regulars- to a point that I was surprised because I fully expected Grapefruit League: Early Fall Edition,
Fourth Point: I pretty much agree. The Cardinals are a very good team. That being said, I wish the Phillies had played them a little better during the September series. The starters played, but the team looked kind of lethargic and lacking in intensity. They win that series or split it, and maybe the Cardinals do not get in. I totally agree with you about the Diamondbacks and Braves, though- the D-backs could have beat the Phillies, and I too am glad that the Braves are not World Series bound.
Fifth Point: Totally agree. The Phillies were an amazing team who judgment not get the bounces this year. It still was a wonderful ride, and I can’t wait for Spring to do it again with all of you. Baseball is the cruelest sport- but also the most wonderful.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 9, 2011 3:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He and his short-shorts need to broadcast on TV more.
And Franzke too, I suppose.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems pretty universal that a team’s best broadcasters are on the radio rather then on TV. I’ll never understand that.
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Truth. Although I much prefer listening to Michael Kay than John Sterling. And I like the Kuip & Kruk combo on TV, even though Jon Miller’s one of my all-time favorite broadcasters.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Because on TV getting to see the team play is going to draw. On the radio, you need people who are really great with words to truly be able to convey the action of the game to those who can not see it.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 9, 2011 3:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dbacks 25, Brewers 23
Phillies 22, Cardinals 19
Yankees 28, Tigers 17
Rays 21, Rangers 16
something’s not right
The Jruth shall be told.
Yeah. You’re right. It’s a big conspiracy. It all started with the second gunman on the grassy knoll, and I think the freemasons were involved. Also Selig is the reincarnation of Henry VIII, and Jerry Meals is Osama bin Laden wearing a mask, but he’s got UN mind control devices in his teeth that were activated by the fluoride in his water. And the UN is controlled by the Iluminati, which, as we all know, is descended from the Knights Templar. You know what else? There’s a TEMPLE University not too far away. Yeah! That’s right! They’re behind it all!
There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that says the team that wins the most games should win the series, therefore this series was unconstitutional and Amaro should be impeached. Ron Paul 2012!
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re overlooking one thing. This whole series was unconstitutional! Ron Paul 2012!
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU’RE overlooking one thing. The Constitution was written in Philadelphia! Therefore, it’s the Cardinals who are unconstitutional and must be outlawed. Ergo, the Phillies won the series, two games to none!
Ben Franklin / James Wilson 2012!
I love it!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 9, 2011 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can’t bear to read philly.com or listen to WIP even in the best of times, so maybe Howard is receiving too much blame. But he had an absolutely awful series. Sure, Victorino made three bad plays in center, Utley made two stupid baserunning mistakes (although I don’t think the steal attempt was that bad), and Halladay apparently has to give up a run before he can record an out. But here is how they did for the series as a whole:
Halladay: 16.0 IP, 4 ER, 9 H, 2 BB, 15 K
Howard: 2-19, 1 HR, 1 BB, 6 SO
Utley: 7-16, 2 2B, 1 3B, 3 BB, 3 SO, 1 CS, 1 getting-thrown-out-at-third-why-the-fuck
Victorino: 6-19, 1 2B, 0 BB, 0 SO
I think it’s fairly easy to see which of those guys hurt us the most in this series.
by Spoilt Victorian Child on Oct 8, 2011 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
Halladay did however accumulate a terrible .333 OPS. (Howard’s was a much healthier .406.)
by Spoilt Victorian Child on Oct 8, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I took a peek at Philly.com and my friend for some unfathomable reason was listening to WIP this morning. It is AWFUL. I don’t know what they’re saying about Cliff Lee, because I didn’t ask, but I’m assuming no one in that crowd is taking him to task for coughing up a four-run lead at home trying to be cute and failing to adjust to the new strike zone. I notice his stats weren’t posted.
I don’t care that Ryan Howard went 2-19. I don’t care that his only real contribution might have come in Game 1. He did not lose this series and for the amount of time in the past he’s spent putting this team on his back and carrying them through, he deserved better in 2010 and he deserves better now.
yeah it’s getting scary. Now there’s already conversation that Howard’s injury will be “good” for the Phillies. Not cool.
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But you missed the biggest irony...
Last year LDS + LCS:
10-33, 4 2B, 5BB, 0RBI
And everyone complained because he did not have an RBI!
This year:
2-19, 1HR, 6 RBI
This time he led the team in RBI, but didn’t hit- and everyone is still complaining… He just can’t win!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Oct 9, 2011 4:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dave, I agree with this piece 99.9%, and totally appreciate your points.
That said, Cliff Lee’s honeymoon is over for me. I’m not playing scapegoat, but he’s not getting paid 25 million a year to cough up 4-0 leads in the LDS against Carpenter. If anyone wants to place blame it should start there. No BABIP in the world can defend the linedrives and bad pitch choices he made that night.
My big problem is that everyone is blaming the offense, particularly Howard. Howard sucked, but he sucked on one leg, and kinda broke the series open in game one. Cliff Lee was supposed to be the savior. He wasn’t.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
yeah, I don’t agree with much of what David Murphy says but I pretty much agree with what he said on the series: People should be focusing on Game 2, not Game 5. At the same time though, and I’m not trying to make excuses for Cliff Lee, but the strike Zone was horribly inconsistent that night so yeah Cliff Lee is going to throw some meatballs just out hopes of getting a strike. But yeah there’s still not much excuse for blowing a 4 run lead.
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I don’t disagree with you saying BABIP is not responsible for Lee’s struggles that night. I’ll agree that most of the damage done was because of Lee and Lee only. However, I’m willing to place a small fraction of the blame on the rather amorphous strike zone that night. Lee could not get his inside fastball called for a strike, and that’s his go-to pitch. He had to move things a little closer to the plate, and a hanging cutter or a fastball that tailed back too much hurt him. Could he have made better pitches? Sure, he’s Cliff Lee. But his options were kinda limited.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
This is kind of my point. Okay, cant blame it on BABIP, lets blame it on the strike zone.
3 run 4th inning went like this:
Berkman walks after an 0-2 count. (called strike one)
Freese K’s looking at strike 2 and 3.
one out runner on 1st.
Molina singles on a 3-2 pitch to Rollins. Ok, give that one to BABIP.
Theriot singled home Berkman on a first pitch fastball. That ones on Cliff.
Jay singles home Molina on a 1-0 cutter. Still on Lee.
Punto strikes out. 2 down.
throws a first pitch curveball to Furcal, and then Furcal singles home theriot, and Ibanez guns Jay at the plate.
3 runs, all on Cliff, not the zone, you wanna take one away for BABIP fine,
Top of the sixth he throws two cutters to Theriot and he doubles again (with 2 outs)
Jay singles on an 0-1 count to drive in Jay.
In the seventh, Craig led off with a triple and saw 5 pitches, 4 strikes.
Pujols drove in the 5th run on a first pitch cutter.
by my count, thats 4 runs, none of which had anything to do with the strike zone, and 1 marginal BABIP run.
Cliff lee was not Cliff Lee game two, it wasnt BABIP, it wasnt the zone, he just didnt have it.
No more excuses from me, thats all.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
and I’m not saying he wasnt getting squeezed a little, so was Carpenter. But there wasnt a hit, or a run, that had anything to do with that. He went after guys and they got him. plain and simple.
I hope it doesnt sound like Im taking this out on you, but its frustrating to me that Howards getting all this grief, and Lees getting none, cause howard is howard and Lee is Lee.
Howard saved Roys ASS in game one on one leg. He played the last month on one leg. thats not his fault. But he still hti that home run, and if he doesn’t, who knows what happens.
He turned the momentum towards us.
Lee turned it back. its that simple.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
I’m not saying Lee has nothing to do with this. He was the pitcher of record in Game 2, and rightly so. He couldn’t get an out when he needed to, and that’s squarely on him. But if we’re talking about giving passes out to players based on their reputations, where does Roy Oswalt fall into this? He got battered around after being staked to a (smaller) lead. Are we ignoring his performance because of his overall season? To me, that was the killer for us. After winning Game 3 by watching Cole shut down the lineup that had battered us around with the most annoying hits ever and making La Russa look stupid with a clutch pinch hit home run, the momentum seemed to shift back in our favor. But Oswalt gave it up in Game 4, and the Cardinals rolled into Game 5 with what seemed like momentum on their side.
The whole series was a real tug-of-war. I don’t think it’s fair to say any one performance by any one player cost us the series. It was a collective…effort.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I appreciate this set of comments. I’m not about ‘blaming’ Lee, but do want to observe that 4 runs should have been enough in that game, and that you can’t count on getting to Carpenter twice in five games. The offense did what they had to do in jumping on a great pitcher who was not at his best in that game. Lee was getting a little squeezed, yes, and, yes, there was a luck factor on the balls in play (there always is), but he missed his spot a lot, and when he does that, he tends to get hit.
mobile ESPN was showing this in its “Did you know?” section — it must have been discussed at some point but I hadn’t seen it before:
Cliff Lee has a 72-1 regular season record when handed a 4-run lead.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
To me, it highlights what a fluke game 2 was, and contributes to my overall “sh** happens” perspective on the series.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
by schmenkman on Oct 9, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Such a Fluke
I believe it was noted by Elias earlier that this was only the second time ever that the Phillies blew a lead of four runs or more in the postseason, the other being Game Four in the 1993 World Series.
by phillyinportland on Oct 9, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Howard sucked, but he sucked on one leg
Was Howard hurt prior to his last PA? I hadn’t heard that.
by Spoilt Victorian Child on Oct 8, 2011 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
He’s been hurt since 2010. That left foot/ankle area never fully healed, I don’t think.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people said he was going to age terribly. He hasn’t proven them wrong at all.
The Jruth shall be told.
I didn’t want to believe it. But this is kinda hard to ignore.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 8, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
“they” said he was going to age terribly because of his body type, well before this injury, which has nothing to do with his body type…. so, this comment is not relevant.
by yolacrary on Oct 8, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think it’s correct that his body type had nothing to do with his injury. Were he a smaller guy, he wouldn’t have had the same momentum going into the bag and not hurt his ankle (as badly).
how does this injury have nothing to do with his body type? His legs have been breaking down for awhile now – isn’t this a lower body injury? If I’m overweight I’m more likely to have lower body issues than someone who carries their weight well.
You have no idea how the human body works if you think additional stress on the lower body doesn’t cause injury. Why do you think 1/2 of Americans that consider themselves competitive runners report injuries every single year? Because their bodies can’t handle the constant stress. It’s obvious that Howard’s can’t either.
How does that not equate to him aging poorly? If he was aging well, such as a player like Paul Konerko, he wouldn’t be having tons of lower body injuries. Just look at him, he can’t even plant and turn his hips to drive the ball to the opposite field anymore. You’re blind if you can’t see that.
The Jruth shall be told.
The ChiSox list Big Paulie at 6’2, 225 lbs. Howard is listed as 6’4", 235 lbs. Those two men are possesed of very similar body types.
Except Konerko carries his weight way better. That was my whole point. Konerko not aging poorly, Howard has so far. There’s really no dispute.
The Jruth shall be told.
That doesn’t make any sense. The two men have virtually identical body types. They’re both big, musclebound firstbasemen.
You said Howard’s body type was the root cause—clearly it’s not.
It’s the root cause of his injuries because he can’t handle his body type in the same manner Konerko can handle his. How does this not make sense? My main point still stands that Howard has not aged well. Dispute that.
The Jruth shall be told.
Injuries =/= not aging well. They are related, but different issues.
For example, (and it’s a poor one, I realize), I weigh about 60 pounds less than Howard, and am in moderate athletic condition. Two years ago, I slipped on ice, and tweaked my ankle. It still hurts sometimes, and I can no longer run long distances. Has nothing to do with aging, beyond not healing well.
“His legs have been breaking down for awhile now – isn’t this a lower body injury?”
What are you talking about? The initial injury is his ankle injury from last season, when he turned it going back into second, a massive fluke. His body type is not relevant.
Also, he is a big dude, but he is not overweight.
Where the hell have you been? He was out for a good number of games in September, got a cortizone shot after they clinched the East, and has been playing on a bad heel and ankle for most of the stretch run, if not long before that.
I said last year that Howard’s ankle injury was bad news. That weakness in the back foot would affect his swing and he wasn’t going to be able to fully do all the things that make him who he is. I badly sprained my ankle in 2003 and every once in a while, there are distances I can’t run or even walk without it starting to bother me.
I’ve been here watching every pitch of the season, thanks.
I assumed he missed a number of games in September for the same reason all the other starters did. It’s not as if they put him on the DL.
I forgot about the cortisone shot after he fouled that ball off his foot.
by Spoilt Victorian Child on Oct 8, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand and to some extend appreciate the attempt to keep things in perspective; it was a special season, and all that …
But I don’t think “blame the game of baseball” quite cuts it for me.
One great and agonizing thing about baseball is that for one game an inferior team can outplay a superior team; this is true of any small sample size of games but normalizes itself over the course of the long season. But that’s really the frustrating point: it’s not the “randomness of baseball” that is frustrating, it’s the fact that their team played better than our team; they simply outplayed them. And now we can say it happened for the second year in a row.
They were better than us when it mattered most, and I’m very frustrated by that.
by Philibuster on Oct 8, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
it’s the fact that their team played better than our team; they simply outplayed them.
Played better meaning “scored less runs”?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 10, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
But that’s the very point. The Phillies were outplayed in 3 out of 5 to a very good 90 win Cardinals team. The odds a 102 win team beats a 90 win team in a 5 game series with homefield advantage is only ~60%. That means there was a 40% chance they would lose. If you are very frustrated with an outcome that has a 40% likleyhood of happening, I’m not sure baseball is the game for you.
Some people just have an intense need to blame other people when things go wrong.
The Phillies didn’t owe it to us to outplay the other team. The only thing they owed us was to give their best effort. When they give their best effort, they’ll usually outplay the other team. But sometimes they won’t. They deserve zero blame when that happens.
It’s fascinating to see what users have come out of the woodwork. I don’t understand the motivation.
Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
its human nature. we want to grieve with people who empathize.
Its cool. I havent said a word to my wife about the phils all day, but when I woke up this am instead of good morning, she hugged me and said “I’m sorry about your game last night”.
Like someone died or something.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
Oh no that I understand. It’s the fans of other teams that are coming here to troll I don’t understand. Especially because a lot of them are Mets/Braves/Giants fans whose seasons are over. I guess it’s just schadenfreude.
Luxury rap, the Hermes of verses. Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
by Eaglesadvocate on Oct 8, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
They need their laughs because the Mainstream Media would wax poetic time and time and time again about how great the Phillies and how they were World Series favorites with their Veteran Experience™, and clearly, all Phillies fans believe the exact same things that other sports fans perceive the Mainstream Media as saying, right?
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
What’s the word on RyHo’s leg
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Oct 8, 2011 6:07 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not a RyHo hater, just wanna chat
And just for conversation’s sake, is there any point within the next couple years where they would try to trade him (Him having an ok year, bad year, great year with the team having ok/bad/great)?? And what would they expect back in those situations? I’m just curious if they would ever trade him within the next few years. Same applies to anybody on the team, the Flyers did get rid of Carter and Richards after all…
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Oct 8, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
They can't possibly trade him.
First of all, they’d have to eat up a good portion of his contract and the return would probably be almost within the negative figures. I realize Brad Lidge started his tenure with the Phillies on the DL, but this isn’t the same situation. I don’t think any team in their right mind would take on Howard given current circumstances.
There’d be no point to trading him, not now and not ever. And my Phillies love would take a big hit if they did.
Ryan should probably take this year or a good portion of it off, see how he comes back the following year. If he can’t recover, he may want to retire, or just play in the AL.
Don’t get all on me Sisko. I also think a change of scenery would do Howard some good.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
It’s conceivable in a scenario where teams exchange horrible contracts to fill particular needs, with one side (probably the Phillies) possibly throwing in cash. Vernon Wells over the past couple years, for example.
So it would require a lot of stars to align, but not impossible.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
Thanks, I could see him wanting to go home if St. Louis doesn’t sign AlPuj
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Oct 8, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
David, agree with your post. However, two things I mentioned in the game thread thread that few others have touched on. First, as you suggested, the relay by Vic in the first was horrible. Yet, this was not the first Vic relay-problem this year. He had one earlier this series, and had the meltdown in Toronto. The question is whether this was “mental” breakdown in the field like he’s had at the plate and on the basepaths, or whether it’s something else. The reason I’m not entirely willing to just say it’s “Vic being Vic” is that up to now, he was a stellar defender who rarely made mental mistakes in the OF. If the mental lapses now have migrated to the field (or if something else Steve Sax-ish is happening, shudder) that’s a notable concern.
Second, the primary reason Furcal had all those opportunities is that the Phillies were unable to hit sinkers in the strike zone. Brad Lidge was well known for his pitch that goes out of the strike zone, making hitters look foolish. Last night, the pitches Pence and others swung at were in fact strikes, thus they had to swing at them, especially with two strikes. Except they apparently tried to pull the ball, which since the pitches were sinkers, resulted in ground balls for Furcal and Punto. The IF for StL was very good last night, but it did not have to be that way. We complained appropriately about the BABIP for the Cards, but part of the reason for the Cards success is that outside of the middle of their lineup, their hitters hit to contact (I’d be interested in seeing a comparison of Team xFIP in the NLDS, not sure how to get this).
I think, as the team ages, some of the players may need to change their overall approach at the plate (I think this is what ultimately some of the concern is for Ryan; I think Ryan gives 100% and “leaves it out on the field” etc., but he appears to be insistent on the slugger’s approach at the plate sometimes). But in any case, hitting to context (what the pitcher is giving to you) is necessary at any point.
Hunter Pence did not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither did Carlos Beltran.
I think, as the team ages, some of the players may need to change their overall approach at the plate (I think this is what ultimately some of the concern is for Ryan; I think Ryan gives 100% and "leaves it out on the field" etc., but he appears to be insistent on the slugger’s approach at the plate sometimes). But in any case, hitting to context (what the pitcher is giving to you) is necessary at any point.
Couldn’t . Agree. More.
you know, like when you don’t have that 1mph of bat speed more that you had at 27 and those fly balls start dying on the warning track…of course this doesn’t apply to Lance Fucking Fuckface Berkman
“So who is to blame here? There’s only one finger to point, and that’s at the game of baseball itself. The baseball post-season, especially with the opening series being only 5 games, has nothing to do with who is the best team. Bad teams can beat good teams over the course of 5 games. There’s no guarantee in such a short series, and we saw that last night.”
I have seen a lot of this attitude last night. If this is going to be the prevailing attitude this offseason, “We were the better team and we lost because of an unfair mechanism of baseball, but we’re still the best.”, then I am going to lose faith in a lot of the people on this site who’s opinion I respect. There were a lot of issues with the Phillies in this season, their approach to hitting, and their patience at the plate. It’s an issue, it’s a real issue. Their ability to react to a pitcher is also an issue – it’s why they can get beat by guys with 7 ERAs.
Look, I’m all for supporting the team, not getting too harsh on them, telling them they did a good job to win so many games. But I’m not going to sit here with blinders on and pretend the Phillies themselves (the offense that is) didn’t lose that game and the entire series. There is blame to go around, and it’s not on it being a 5 game series.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
“There were a lot of issues with the Phillies in this season, their approach to hitting, and their patience at the plate.”
The problem with this is it ignores actual data that shows the Phillies rating fairly well during the season in plate discipline and strikeout rates.
I remember a good deal of moments where they’d pop up on a 0-0 count with the bases loaded. In fact, I remember a game the Phillies lost in a similar situation, and I came here and raged and got attacked because it was just one game and wasn’t important. Seems important now.
And you can’t have watched the game yesterday and tell me they had plate discipline. I’d think if there was ever a moment to show it, it’d be a Game 5.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?
I did not say they showed great plate discipline in this series; I said they had good plate discipline, as a team, in the regular season, which was meant to counter your wrong assertion that “there were a lot of issues with…their approach to hitting” this season, an assertion that remains wrong despite the fact that there were no doubt a few games in the regular season that seem to confirm it
by yolacrary on Oct 8, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I personally have not seen this team do well with working counts, reacting to being on the losing end of a pitching battle, or not first pitching swinging. Perhaps the stat has to do with the number of games where they face poor pitchers.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Whatever you want to think man. I just watched this playoff series. If the Phillies are capable of being patient at the plate, I’d think they’d show it in the playoffs. They certainly weren’t on their A-game, but come on.
And if they are capable of being patient at the plate, then they need to fire the coaching staff as the team wasn’t looking for it or prepared.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Phillies -- lowest first-pitch swinging
They were at the league average for pitches per PA (3.80) – link
The same link also has the percentage of times they swung at the first pitch — “1stS”.
They swung at the first pitch FAR less than any other team in the NL:
21% – Phils
25% – 2nd best
27% – NL average
(the AL average was 26%, and these were the three lowest: Min 21%, Oak 22%, Bos 22%)
By the way, high-scoring St. Louis and Cincinnati had two of the highest first-pitch swing rates.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
fixed
25% — 2nd best lowest
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
I still hate first-pitch swinging. Always have, likely always will.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 10, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
There were a lot of issues with the Phillies in this season, their approach to hitting, and their patience at the plate.
At best, this is a completely boring observation of a baseball team. At worst, it’s a moronic comment.
In the completely boring column – there are a lot of issues with EVERY baseball team in EVERY season. No team is perfect, every team loses at least 60 games, and every team loses to teams that are much worse than they are throughout the season. That’s the game. If you think that’s something that will make you lose faith with people at this site, so be it. I’m fine with that. If you expect perfection, then you’re watching the wrong sport.
In the moronic comment column, this team won 102 games, the most of any team in baseball this season and the most in the franchise’s history. If you a team with the issues you identified can win 102 games, then maybe those aren’t really issues you should care about.
Because I’m feeling kind, I’ll choose the completely boring option.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 8, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have seen a lot of this attitude last night. If this is going to be the prevailing attitude this offseason, "We were the better team and we lost because of an unfair mechanism of baseball, but we’re still the best.", then I am going to lose faith in a lot of the people on this site who’s opinion I respect.
Would it be enough to get you to stop reading and commenting?
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, Twitter, fun!
by FuquaManuel on Oct 9, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here is my Phillies Schedule for 2011
Wins are Green Checkmarks, Losses are Red X’s, Postponed Games are Blue Raindrops (or blobs as they turned into). The games with Green Dots on them were games where they scored ten or more runs, but next year I think I’ll green dot games with five or more run differentials. It’s an interesting chart for sure.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
They lost 9 of 10 first tuesdays wow
by Sept.28.Oct.27.Dec.28.2008 on Oct 8, 2011 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
There’s a lot of situations like that. It’s also interesting seeing their record for individual days of the week.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
COT, but I just read the most moronic tweet in history. From Luke Russert, who is actually usually pretty good and should definitely know better than this:
<blockquoteDubya is at the #Rangers game.He’d be a good commish. #MLB>
I do not post the right way.
quote fail, I’ll try again:
Dubya is at the #Rangers game.He’d be a good commish. #MLB
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He would have been great for 2001-2008.
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Lots of tweeters are saying the MRI confirms a torn achilles, Howard out until May or June.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
wow.
I’ve been thinking about Howard’s problems this season, how his ability to stay on the ball and go the other way or up the middle seemed to be so short-lived. Even this series: in the first two games, he was doing just that: going the other way, up the middle, having decent at bats (people forget that he just missed on a couple of flyouts the other way in game 2), before seeming to become unraveled, beginning, it appears, with the first lefty reliever he faced in game 2.
In the regular season, it seemed he rarely sustained hitting well for more than a few games at a time. What I’m wondering is how much his foot affected his ability to stay on the ball. (Though I recognize he has sub-optimal pitch recognition and plate discipline at times.)
A friend of mine (a Yankees fan) posted this on his Facebook wall: “What’s wrong with baseball when the best team in the National League and the best team in the American League can’t even make it to the League Championship Series?
This will be a World Series that no one will watch. I feel sorry for MLB.”
I understand his frustration, and I certainly feel it, too. But we had three 1-run sudden-death playoff games in two nights. According to BR, the only other year that had three such games was 1972. And it hadn’t happened even once since 2003. This year also saw unprecedented September collapses by the Red Sox and the Braves (or, alternatively, unprecedented September successes by the Rays and the Cardinals). Not to mention the first sudden-death loss by the Yankees in Yankee Stadium, Matt Kemp’s triple-crown chase, etc.
So as a fan of the game, I think baseball is in great shape, and it was doubly wonderful that these and other events unfolded in the same year the Phillies were record-setting in their own right. I love this game, and I’m looking forward to a Carpenter-Verlander Game 7.
Yeah, well, it’s not MLB’s fault if Lou Gehrig’s ghost couldn’t help the Yankees hit a sacrifice fly.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 8, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I know a lot of people enjoy looking back at the ’08 season through rose-colored glasses, but I agree with whoever posted about it earlier.
The Phillies were nowhere near the best team in baseball in 2008. That was almost as frustrating a ride during the regular season as May-August 2010. That team got hot at the right time and stayed hot when they needed to. This Cardinals team actually reminds me a lot of our 2008 squad.
We had our time. I’m not going to sit and complain this year about the World Series teams, whoever they turn out to be.
All they really need to do is sit down and figure out how to win short series. They have the pieces to go all the way, but they just haven’t been able to get it done in the short series the past two years.
I was saying to my friend Andy earlier that I think the flat-out dominance of the regular season hurt us. It was amazing and fun to watch and I wouldn’t trade franchise record after franchise record after franchise record for anything, but it’s only natural in life itself that you go on cruise control if you’re the best of the best.
All they really need to do is sit down and figure out how to win short series
I thought that that’s what they did this offseason, and why they had 4 Aces™ — because starting pitching wins short series.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
When two of the four aces don’t perform to their abilities, kind of throws a wrench in the works. And I don’t think Oswalt did poorly until giving up that HR that buried us.
I think during the season we won most of the series we played against other teams. Post season Cliff and Lil Roy were good but not totally dominating, and I believe both Polly and Ryan were playing hurt (more than was let on). Not sure if Hunter Pence felt post season pressure as it was his first time.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
ding ding ding!
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
It is. There was an article re-posted at Baseball Prospectus the other day that tracked the changes in fortune from a 5-game to a 7-game series; the 5-gamer definitely skews the results in favor of the lower seed.
Take with a grain of salt, I can't find official confirmation anywhere.
I’ve been seeing whispers that it may be official — torn ACL. I thought it was his Achilles?
I think the “ACL” thing is a mis-statement propagated through the wonders of the interwebs.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
maybe it’s one of those internet abbreviations, for Achilles :-)
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Gelb slipped up last night. He typed “ACL” though he meant “Achilles” on Twitter, and even though he later corrected himself, the damage had already been done.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Only Eskin is saying this and no one else has reported anything yet, so take this with a grain of salt
Word I get from inside Phillies… Ryan Howard had MRI 2day and did reveal a torn Achilles tendon left leg. Likely out till next may or june
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Will Carroll, SI's Injury Expert's take
Achilles tears tend to take 9-12 months to heal. Not career threatening, esp in baseball.
Best comparable injury for Howard is Olmedo Saenz – tore Achilles in 02 ALDS, didn’t make it back to majors in ’03 (played 14 minor games)
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Mayberry not a bad choice. SO then we hope for Dom Brown regains his confidence and skill and plays left?
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
yeah he should be fine. I just hope RAJ doesn’t do anything stupid.
I do not post the right way.
by Veni Vidi Vici on Oct 8, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry for those hoping Eskin was wrong
Howard’s MRI reveals ruptured Achilles. Recovery time “won’t be known until after surgery.” But no “guarantee” he’s ready by spring training
And because we can’t let Howard have all the fun.
Phillies also announce Cole Hamels will have surgery to remove loose bodies from elbow. During season they’d only said he had sore shoulder.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Chase Utley diagnosed with bromhidrosis.
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I appreciated this more than I could say.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 9, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Hamels will also have surgery to repai an inguinal hernia according to CNS sports
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
NOTE TO PEOPLE: Do not Google you “inguinal hernia”
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
NC-17 Wikipedia
I like the concept of the “incarcerated inguinal hernia”
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
“incarcerated inguinal hernia”
three strikes and you’re out
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
My girlfriend is in medical school. She showed me a picture of an advanced inguinal hernia a few weeks ago. You ever hear a grown man whimper?
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 9, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
ajay linked above to this Joe Posnanski article — I’m reposting to give it some more exposure: There’s Only One October.
The average for a World Series winner is somewhere between fourth and fifth best record. And with the two best records in baseball out this year, that average should stay pretty much intact.
I’m not saying this is wrong. I’m just saying that the entire emphasis of baseball excellence has shifted. The 162-game season has shifted from feature to opening act. Baseball used to be about winning pennants. Now it’s about getting into the playoffs and taking your chances.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
by schmenkman on Oct 8, 2011 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Not sure the quote is about how winning or excellence is perceived or how it is achieved.
If the latter, what’s the solution?
- Don’t push so hard in the regular season?
- Construct your roster for a five-game series against an elite team, not a 162-game slog?
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
perceived, is how I read it
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
I don’t go back far enough to pre-division play. I know Phillies players from the ’80 team said trying to win the pennant was more stressful than trying to win the World Series. But that might not have been true for the Reds, Yankees and Dodgers teams from that time.
I would think it’s always been about winning the World Series, though. And to take your chances in the playoffs you still need to get past 3/4 of the league. So I’d agree with this as a matter of degree, perhaps, but not as an “entire emphasis” or even substantial.
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
A graph
http://flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-bestrecord09.png
"You play to win the playoffs, and we let 'em off the hook!" -Herm Mora Green
by jrobulls on Oct 8, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it might be clearer if he ditched the blue non-playoff teams
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The blue teams have to be there to show that some teams with better records than the champion did not make the playoffs (like in 06).
It took me a minute to completely figure it out but it works fine.
right, but you could leave blanks there and i think people would still be able to see how the playoff times plot.
by flyersfaninchicago on Oct 8, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't blame Howard
I credit St. Louis for overcoming its own adversity. Sometimes you just get beat, But I do think this is going to be an interesting offseason—Big and little decisions to be made on JRo, Ibanez, Oswalt. And Howard, Polanco and Utley’s health and age have to be a concern.
I see some changes coming, and change is hard.
"I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." Groucho Marx
including a phenomenal Chris Carpenter last night
phenomenal based on the results but not on the pitches he threw. You were at the game, so there would be no way for you to see that Carpenter was throwing pitch after pitch up in the zone; check out each AB on Gameday and you’ll see what I mean. With the amount of sinkers and cutters he left up and in the middle of the plate the Phils should have crushed him last night and that is what makes that game so hard to take for me. To put it another way, Chris Volstad or Mike Pelfrey might have shut out the Phils last night with the swings they were having at those pitches….just awful.
Reading this makes me wonder why I even watch baseball and but my heart into a team. Just to get bamboozled by long odds in the playoffs.
because it’s a really enjoyable game!
by David S. Cohen on Oct 9, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
no no, any enjoyment you might have experienced during a season regular season is necessarily either an illusion or completely negated by a short playoff series
To whoever wrote this article:
Find the nearest window, and jump out of it. Hopefully, it’s at least 10 stories high. Anybody who says it was overall a good season despite getting knocked out of the playoffs in the first round is delusional. That’s exactly WHY it was horrible. I would take 85 wins and a trip to the LCS over 102 wins and a quick exit any day.
by DegaussMe on Oct 9, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Find the nearest window, and jump out of it. Hopefully, it’s at least 10 stories high.
No.
by David S. Cohen on Oct 9, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Thought experiment: Take the passion out of this. I’m assuming you have no rooting interest in the following teams. But how would you describe the 2001 Seattle Mariners’ team and season, or the 1985 Toronto Blue Jays?
I’d take a fantastic regular season over a hot, lucky stretch run any day. The 2011 Phillies are the greatest team in the history of this franchise. What are you, one of those bandwagoning fans since 2008?
so you’d rather win 100 games in the regular season than win the world series? Yeah that makes a lot sense guy.
The Jruth shall be told.
Why is there so much more weight put on a 5-game sample than a 162-game sample?
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Oct 9, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because he watched the 5 games, and not the 162?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 10, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I would take 85 wins and a trip to the LCS over 102 wins and a quick exit any day.
Fix yo’ priorities, son.
Obviously quick exits suck. But 102 win seasons are AWESOME. Find joy where you can.
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 9, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
which is not to say that an unlikely wild card berth followed by a run to the LCS or WS is not also awesome, but you can count on that even less than you can a 102-win team winning in the post-season
I’d rather win in the postseason than win in the regular season. Sort or a “lucky is better than good” deal.
Winning a lucky championship > Deserving the championship but losing.
Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].
by dees ees en drama on Oct 9, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
but you don’t get to choose, do you? the point is, the regular season offers plenty of opportunities for enjoyment, should you choose to be open to them, especially a regular season as awesome as this one…. the post-season offers a different possible set of opportunities, but why should failing in the latter make the former a waste of time?
Wrong screen name
I think it should be “defragged” and not “degaussed”. Or perhaps that’s what should be done to your internal hard drive.
Astaire and Rogers, G and Jagr
Hunter Pence did not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither did Carlos Beltran.
Didn’t miss the point. Just perpetuating the fact that you choose to blame baseball for the Phillies woes rather than the Phillies themselves. Oh, the irony.
by DegaussMe on Oct 9, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You did, however, miss the reply button.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Oct 9, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I am totally missing your point here.
Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].
by dees ees en drama on Oct 9, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Vick just set the NLF career record for rushing yards: 4,946 to pass Randall Cunningham.
Also the wheels seem to have fallen off the offense there.
NLF career record
Vick’s a Communist?! C’mon, boys, let’s go get that Red bastard!
by ThinMountainAir on Oct 9, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said, I agree with 99% of this article
except the assertion that Utley’s steal attempt was stupid. He’s safe 95% of the time with that jump even with a Molina or vintage Pudge catching. And the team needed something. A good calculated gamble IMO.
It may have been discussed but I feel the Series turned on the game 2 strikeout and doubleplay. It is clear that Pence was safe, and I never saw a replay but I felt at the time the pitch to Howard was a ball. 2 on no outs is a lot different than 2 outs none on, and it would have taken little to put that game, Carpenter, and the Cardinals away. And that was the start of what looked like LaRussa getting rewarded, for the rest of the series, on several close pitches for his rant. On the other hand, Charlie appeared to bend over the entire series as we continued to get screwed on balls and strikes. I would have like to have seen him get in at least one ump’s face in the series and get tossed.
I think you’re mixing up some of the events…. the strikeout/DP was in game 4; I agree it was a turning point in that game (but I also think the pitch was a strike—though it wasn’t called one later in the game)
you may be thinking of the Polanco GIDP in the first inning of game 2; at the time it felt big (don’t want to let a guy like Carpenter off the hook), but it was still a few innings before Lee gave up any runs…. TLR whining about the strikezone was somewhere in between there
yes it was game 4
and it was Jackson pitching. My mind is working hard at supressing memory of this series.
But it was since game 2 TLR bitching that it seems like we were in the wrong end of a lot ball strike calls. Maybe I was oblivious but I was genuinely surprised about TLR and Carpenter going off on the ump, it didn’t seem he was getting screwed. Maybe he was. I was only half listening but what really pissed me off was when they interviewed TLR in the dugout, he whined, and one of the announcers said something to the effect that yeah, from what we’re watching we’d have to agree with you. Such a comment is so F’d up for so many reasons. Up until that point I didn’t hear anything from the announcers about how Carpenter may have been getting squeezed, I was thinking what an idiotic buttmunch.
All this said good teams need to overcome modest screwing from umps. However, a few bad calls plus BABIP differential makes winning a 5 game series hard for even a great team.
no, you are correct: Carpenter wasn’t really getting squeezed at all; his own outbursts at the umpire seemed odd and extremely childish, since it looked to all the world like he was just not on his game… TLR’s bitching was even worse, and TBS’s acquiescence to it was unbelievable. Did it affect the balls & strikes called the rest of the series? I don’t know.
I couldn't agree more.
The cardinals are a very good team. The difference between a 102 win team and a 90 win team in a 162 game season is 1 win every 13.5 games. With home field advantage in a 5 game series, that equates to about ~65% chance to win the series. That’s not great odds for the team “that was built to go to the world series”, and they ended up on the wrong side of it. Such is baseball.
by BrandonB on Oct 10, 2011 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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