A Few Phillies Links For You, November 28, 2011: More Rollins, Mmm Arbies, Stopping Short

by WholeCamels on Nov 28, 2011 7:47 AM EST

Oswalt's likely departure changes dynamic of Phillies rotation
Still formidable.

Astros fire GM Wade and president Smith
But who are the Phillies gonna dump all their junk onto in exchange for their good players LOOLOLOLOLOLLOL

Raul Ibanez: Where Does the Philadelphia Phillies Left Fielder Fit Into the Team’s Plans for the Future? | Philadelphia Phillies
2019: National League Champions 10th Reunion.

Offering Ibanez Arbitration | Brotherly Glove
Always a comfort to know that Raul Ibanez holds the Sword of Damocles over your head.

3 thoughts: If Madson accepted arbitration?
Freddy Galvis: Opening Day Shortstop

Beer nuts: Shortstops doing squat in winter ball - Beerleaguer
MVP Wilson Valdez! I appreciate Jason's (correct) appraisal of the weak crop of hitters that are poised to take Jimmy Rollins' place should the former MVP leave, but I'm not 100% in agreement that a small collection of Winter League stats are the best way to reach that conclusion. There's certainly a sufficient MiLB/MLB track record for all three.

Jerry Clothier, 66, beloved Phillies executive since '82
One of the many people who make the Phillies run who we don't hear about, but whose jobs are incredibly important. Goodbye.

This day in Phillies history: Adam Eaton gets $24.5 M
Pat Gillick's Folly.

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Ed Wade’s “Blue Steel” gaze

I don't normally read stats, but when I do, the names Detweiller, Eric or Don are involved.

Stay educated, my friends

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 28, 2011 10:28 AM EST reply actions

Wagner contacted by Phillies?

We have the complete story on this… stay tuned.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/wag_bags_it_aQplckv4p5UHYhu8vN2dNI

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Nov 28, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions

Wow

Really?

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Nov 28, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions

So we could have had Wagner and Reyes on the Phillies at the same time. That would have been interesting.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions

Worked for the Mets.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Nov 28, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions

What I find mildly surprising about this isn’t that they reached out to Wagner, but that they didn’t see Joe Nathan as a similar option. Obviously, I don’t know for a fact that was the case but if you think about it, Wagner would have been a 1 or 2 year stopgap to one of the young guys (Aumont, Bastardo, et al…) he probably would have cost about as much as or more than Nathan…

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Nov 28, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions

Plus, didn’t the Braves still hold Wagner’s rights? What are the implications of that (admitting ignorance on team rights)?

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Nov 28, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions

yes. they did. They could have given us the rights out of the kindness of their hearts (not likely), flat denied us (or anyone) the right to negotiate with him, or (more likely, if he only wanted to come back to Philly) negotiated with us for his rights.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Nov 28, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions

So, we could have paid with a prospect (or cash?) for the privelege of overpaying Wagner? Glad he stayed retired.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Nov 28, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions

I’m pretty sure thats the case.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Nov 28, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions

I guess the Madson situation highlights what’s wrong with handing big contracts to closers. We all know that a “set up man” is pretty close to being just as important as a “closer” – the leverage value of the eighth inning of a close game is just about the same as in the ninth, and in fact, sometimes set-up men will pitch in higher leverage because they’re more likely to pitch in tied games or when their team is down by one.

So if it makes sense to give $12 million to your closer, then it should make just as much sense to give $10 or $11 million to your set-up man. But if the thought of paying $22 million for two relief pitcher makes you recoil, then you have to ask yourself why? Either it’s wrong to feel bad about paying that much to two relievers, or it’s wrong to feel okay about paying $12 million for one reliever.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 10:46 AM EST reply actions

So if it makes sense to give $12 million to your closer,

It doesn’t and that is where the discussion should end. God help us if it comes to paying 25 mil a year for guys who will combined to throw half as many innings as a starter.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Nov 28, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions

But..but...closer mentality! Leverage! Saves!

Yeah, it’s just another thing to blame LaRussa for, the overspecialization of the reliever.

Bob.

by The Dark on Nov 28, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions

Do you think madson would GET 10-11 in arbitration (coming off 4.5mm in 2011)?

Based on the sheer number of closers out there this season, and the LACK of closers next year, If I was Boras, and I thought he had a good case for that much on a 1 year deal, I would strongly consider telling him to accept, negotiate a 1 year deal, and go abck on the market next off season…

Another reason why I think we jumped the gun

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Nov 28, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t see why not. His role, and thus his stats, changed between the time he signed that contract and today. Regardless, my point is a hypothetical one, and the actual details of Madson’s arbitration process are not particularly relevant to it.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions

http://i.imgur.com/cxIr0.gif

by JorgeSantos on Nov 28, 2011 10:57 AM EST reply actions

Btw, according to Matt Swartz, the extra pick the Phillies get by signing Papelbon over Madson makes their deals almost identical.

So what’s the value of the extra pick from signing Papelbon instead of Madson? The answer is about $4.8 million, just shy of the $6 million difference between the two deals.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/how-compensation-picks-stifle-free-agent-salaries/

Now I’ll wait for the posts from people who don’t understand the 2011 compensation rules to make themselves look stupid.

by Nikk.m on Nov 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions

Btw, according to Matt Swartz, the extra pick the Phillies get by signing Papelbon over Madson ~~makes their deals almost identical~~ is irrelevant because they’re both bad deals.

/fixed

by Phrozen on Nov 28, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions

I’d take either over bringing in Billy Wagner

by Nikk.m on Nov 28, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah… he would have been about forty-sixth on my list of preferences.

by Phrozen on Nov 28, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

Nikk,

I sort of get what your saying here, but at the same time, I think what a lot of people are upset about is that if Raj had WAITED one week, we would have KEPT the pick we gave up to Boston, giving us 2 first round picks, plus the supplemental pick.

matt is also assuming that Madson won’t pull a Werth and sign with a team with a protected pick.

Personally, I’m not upset we signed Papelbon over Madson. Actually, if we were going to pay 12mm a year for a closer, we signed the guy who has the most proven track record.

I’m of the opinion that 12mm for a closer is ludicrous, wasteful, and unneccesary spending (especially in such a flush market for closers) and that that money was better spent in other ways. the 4 year deal makes it all the more silly.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Nov 28, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

I agree with you there. Not waiting was a mistake. Perhaps RAJ thought that the reliever prices would be going up and he wanted to get his guy before that happened — I can only speculate on that.

by Nikk.m on Nov 28, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions

Perhaps, but I think it’s very unlikely you’re going to see another team shell out $60 million for another reliever any time soon. I think Ruben really set the bar high here.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Nov 28, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions

Also the protected pick doesn’t matter. These picks are comp picks that happen to get sandwiched in without the signing team having to give anything up.

by Nikk.m on Nov 28, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions

Oh, well in that case, I can’t wait for the Astros or Twins to sign Madson. /s

by EJL on Nov 28, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions

Now I’ll wait for the posts from people who don’t understand the 2011 compensation rules to make themselves look stupid.

Yeah, you know because with all the distractions the internet offers, the 2011 compensation rules were right before “big tits” on my list of things that I might want to browse.

by j reed on Nov 28, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs

Salisbury: Phillies never fleeced Ed Wade

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/phillies-talk/post/Phillies-never-fleeced-Ed-Wade?blockID=601736&feedID=693

Gasp! No one has ever suggested this before!

by Rujasu on Nov 28, 2011 12:30 PM EST reply actions

Come on, Jim! Not even a link?

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions

Wow, Jim Salisbury really IS watching you.

by Wet Luzinski on Nov 28, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions

Ha! I totally forgot about that.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions

I can’t say I’m the biggest John Finger fan in the world, but he did have a very good line in this article when he wrote:

OK, we don’t know if this is masterful foresight or just dumb luck, but Wade should get a ton of credit for not trading minor leaguers Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Cole Hamels when he had the chance and everyone pleaded with him to do so. Remember that? Of course you don’t because you don’t want to admit how dumb you were. Still, it’s hard to believe a few folks got all lathered up because Wade refused to make deadline deals involving Howard that would have brought back guys like Jeff Suppan or Kris Benson from Pittsburgh.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 1:06 PM EST reply actions

I thought

that the deal was Utley and Madson for Barry Zito? ::shudder::

by ajay on Nov 28, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions

But with Kris Benson comes Anna Benson. Not my cup of tea but I guess she is for some.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Nov 28, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions

And to think, had Ed Wade not been the GM in Philadelphia, @fansince09 would say “should of kept Hamels”.

by topherstarr on Nov 28, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions

i can't believe everyone came up with the same hilarious joke all at once!

Who knew our fan base was so chock full of comic geniuses!

(Much appreciation to Boss WC for tweeting my article from July, by the way.)

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 3:20 PM EST reply actions

The worst news out of all of this is that it confirms that the popular impression of the Pence trade being a ripoff in the Phillies’ favor has hardened like cement. The majority of fans will continue lobbying for more of the same in the future, will credit future successes to the same, and will blame future failures on there not being enough of same.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ycn-10545187

Of course, I will miss him now more than ever. At each of the last two trade deadlines, the Phillies swung easy deals with the Astros. They gave up very little to get Oswalt in 2010 or Pence in 2011. In both cases, Phillies fans everywhere were grateful to Wade for making the otherwise head scratching trades. Wade also allowed the team to get Lidge. In 2008, Lidge had a perfect season and helped the Phillies win the World Series. To me, that move represented Wade inadvertently helping the Phillies win the World Series.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions

Wow every single thing is wrong.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Nov 28, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions

Please God!

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Nov 28, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions

Hope he’s not molding young minds.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Nov 28, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions

doesn't appear to be the case, thankfully

Mark Paul
I graduated from Penn State with a degree in media studies. I now work as a data reporting analyst.
I have been writing for several years and have experience in sports, history, movies, travel tips, computers, finance, science, math, programming and other things. I am happy to share my personal experiences with anyone. I also have lived in the Philadelphia area my whole life, and have a great deal of knowledge about the local area.

by taco pal on Nov 28, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions