Phillies Winter Meetings Roundup: Madson, Rollins, Ramirez

by WholeCamels on Dec 6, 2011 10:49 PM EST

Little to report on the Jimmy Rollins front, as Rollins' agent Dan Lozano has his hands full with ~~strippers~~ the red-hot Albert Pujols Sweepstakes. Former GM Pat Gillick reportedly visited free agent third baseman Aramis Ramirez in the Dominican Republic and came away with a good impression. Whether this is "real" interest or just negotiating leverage remains to be seen.
To facilitate an Aramis Ramirez signing, the Phillies had reportedly been discussing a trade of Placido Polanco with the Rockies, among other teams. The Rockies have apparently backed out, at least in part because they don't think he can hack it at second base. Wait what?
With the closer market quickly drying up, folks in the know have started to speculate that Ryan Madson may accept the Phillies' arbitration offer, in lieu of a diminished multi-year contract. Speaking of which, the Mets signed Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch for the back of the bullpen. With the number of teams looking for (pricey) closers diminishing almost by the hour, it might make sense for Madson to punt on the market and try again next year, when there are likely to be fewer experienced closers available. The Phillies could benefit as well, as Madson on a one year deal around $8 million or so would be a very valuable trading chip.

Stay tuned.

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I’m coming to think that the Phillies should wait out on Rollins. I don’t think he’s going to get much interest for a five year deal. Even if he did, I would expect that he would still give the Phillies a chance to resign him if he got a good offer. Galvis just won’t cut it.

by Mattypmp on Dec 6, 2011 11:13 PM EST reply actions

you never know, the Marlins may need another shortstop…

Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.

-Oscar Wilde

by VanceinmyPants on Dec 6, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions

When I first heard about the Mets signing Frank Frank, I read the Francisco part and thought they’d resigned K-Rod, which made me wonder if Sandy Alderson was a real person and not Minaya wearing a mask.

by Phrozen on Dec 6, 2011 11:13 PM EST reply actions

Rosenthal:

Rival exec: #Phillies no longer shopping Polanco, backing off A. Ramirez. Unrelated to Rollins talks. #MLB

Didn’t this whole thing start around Rollins? I am so very lost.

My gut feeling based on nothing: Phillies are trading for Hanley Ramirez.

Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.

by Justin F. on Dec 7, 2011 12:19 AM EST reply actions

That is, actually, not as surprising as you might think. Although if that does happen, it’ll be December 15th…again.

Either that or Ruben realized how much of a waste it would be to sign the guy. My guess is he either re-signs Rollins or makes a move for Hanley (who apparently is being a whiny bitch about moving to third anyway), and then goes for David Wright in July…

by Airedale260 on Dec 7, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions

Ugh. Wright is garbage.

by taco pal on Dec 7, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions

I didn’t say it was a good plan…

by Airedale260 on Dec 7, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions

Potential 2012 Prospect list should this come to pass:

1 Kelly Dugan
2 Leandro Castro
3 Colby Shreve
4 Cameron Rupp
5. Cody Overbeck
6 Garrett Claypool
7 Tuffy Gosewich
8 Ervis Manzanillo
9 Chace Numata
10 Nate Bump

by Cormican on Dec 7, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions

Well, on the plus side: time for Chace to shine!

by Trev223 on Dec 8, 2011 5:44 AM EST up reply actions

I’m kind of torn on the Pujols thing.. I want the Cards to lose him since that would take the air out of their WS afterglow, yet I kind of fear the Fish if they do land him.

by Nikk.m on Dec 7, 2011 12:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

cubbies. That’s my hope.

Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.

-Oscar Wilde

by VanceinmyPants on Dec 7, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions

Or this could all backfire and Jeffrey Loria could be MLB’s version of Jeffrey Lurie…remember how well the free-agent bonanza worked out this year?

by Airedale260 on Dec 7, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions

Exactly

Hopefully the Marlins are dumb enough to hamstring themselves with 10 years $200M. Then, we just need the Nats to pick up C.J. Wilson for $75M+.

by dp on Dec 7, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions

I can’t imagine a 38 year old Pujols will be worth $20m, none the less a 42 year old Pujols. The fish may be scary the next 3 years, but they would potentially be epically bad the second half of the decade.

by Cormican on Dec 7, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions

I don’t think it works like that in baseball. Football is a huge team sport, baseball… not so much.

Its all about the []_[]
#FirePaulHolmgren

by philiafan14364 on Dec 8, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions

Daniel Snyder says hi.

by 88Lindros88 on Dec 7, 2011 1:35 AM EST reply actions

via mlbtraderumors

If you thought the Angels were being greedy by pursuing C.J. Wilson, brace yourself. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports writes that the Phillies are among the teams interested in dealing for A’s lefty Gio Gonzalez.

Despite having a historically dominant rotation that features Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, and Cole Hamels, Philadelphia is among about a dozen teams in the mix for Gonzalez. The thinking, according to Rosenthal, is that acquiring Gonzalez would either give the Phillies a built-in replacement for Hamels when he departs via free agency after the 2012 season, or even allow the Phils to shop Hamels to other clubs this winter.

Ugh…

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Dec 7, 2011 6:21 AM EST reply actions

Why?

Hamels > Gonzalez. Hamels >>> Gonzalez. Why in hell does that make sense?

by Phrozen on Dec 7, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions

We already traded for him before and proceeded to trade him back to where we got him from for a broke down Freddy Garcia. Maybe Hamels contract extension is not going well?

I just want them to lock down Hamels, even if he gets some extra years.

by Mattypmp on Dec 7, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

Gavin Floyd was traded for a broken down Garcia. If I recall correctly, Gonzalez was part of the Blanton deal?

by The Mad Hopper on Dec 8, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions

No, it was Floyd + Gonzalez in exchange for Garcia. Gonzalez went to Oakland in a separate deal between Oakland and Chicago.

Blanton was for Cardenas + Outman.

by taco pal on Dec 8, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions

Gotcha. So we traded 2 up and coming pitchers for one broken down Garcia. I was hoping I had recalled that incorrectly.

by The Mad Hopper on Dec 8, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions

Weirdly, both are back on the trade market, and Garcia was a starter for a playoff team last year.

No point.

by Cormican on Dec 9, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions

I was listening to WIP this morning on my way to work, and a caller said we should sign Ramirez and trade Polanco, Brown, and a minor leaguer for JJ Hardy. He also went on a rant about how Brown was a complete bust who proved last year he’ll never be a major league player.

My head literally exploded.

by Domonate on Dec 7, 2011 7:40 AM EST reply actions

the trade part of that isn’t absolutely terrible, but still

by yolacrary on Dec 7, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions

Hardy’s okay, but that would be an utterly awful trade.

by Rujasu on Dec 7, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

actually, Hardy’s pretty damn good…. still not a trade I’d make, but it’s not the worst thing I’ve ever heard (or the worst thing I’ve heard this week, alas).

by yolacrary on Dec 7, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions

Brown, Polanco, Worley, and Trevor May for Jair Jurrjens

by topherstarr on Dec 7, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions

sweet

by yolacrary on Dec 7, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions

interesting comment by mgl at The Book:

the notion that closers are over-valued because you can turn anyone into a closer or that their performance fluctuates a lot from year (which it does, mainly because of sample size) to year in nonsense. The value of a closer is simply the regular value of a reliever times the average LI of a closer which is around 2.0. So if a closer is expected to throw 75 innings, it is like a starter throwing 150. A good closer is worth a lot, maybe 3 WAR. That is 15 mil.

by yolacrary on Dec 7, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions

Well, I guess you could say it’s interesting, but it’s also wrong.

by Rujasu on Dec 8, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions

go argue with him about it; I’m not saying I agree, but he is one of the sabermetric gurus

by yolacrary on Dec 8, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions

I always thought WAR was considered broken for relief pitchers. And besides that he’s making two false assumptions: a) a closer will pitch roughly 75 innings in a season, and b) a 9th inning save situation is the highest leverage inning a reliever can pitch. The average closer last year (by average, I mean at least 20 saves and 55 IP, trying to eliminate effects of injury and midseason callups) pitched about 65 innings. Craig Kimbrel led the group with 77 IP (Holy Christ, Fredi…), while our own Jonathan Papelbon finished with 64.1 innings. Now, given the propensity of our starters to pitch the whole game, Papelbon is certainly not going to approach 75 innings ever during his time in Philly. In regards to the second premise, as we’ve discussed before, not all saves are equal. Which is higher leverage, the 1-run lead against the 3-4-5 hitters, or the 3-run lead against the 7-8-9 hitters?

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Dec 8, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions