Holy S&*@! Cliff Lee is a Phillie!

by David S. Cohen on Feb 18, 2011 10:28 AM EST

It's now been four days since the "four aces and the fifth Beatle" press conference. It's been over two months since the Phillies stole Cliff Lee from the Rangers and Yankees. It's been more than half a year since the Phillies traded for Roy Oswalt (plus $11 million). And it's been over a year since the Phillies acquired Roy Halladay.

And yet I still have the same reaction when thinking about these three joining Cole Hamels and Joe Blanton to form the Phillies 2011 starting rotation: holy shit!

I have a theory - the older you are, the more you're having these "holy shit" moments and the longer they're lasting. For those of us who have been Phillies fans for long enough, there's just too much cognitive dissonance to dissipate after such a short period of time. Sure, as I detailed at the start here, the Phillies dream rotation has been growing in stature for over a year now. But, we've too long suffered through rotations that have included the Calvin Maduros, Matt Beeches, David Palmers, Jerry Koosmans, and Brandon Duckworths of the world.

But now Joe Blanton is our fifth starter. And Cliff Lee chose the Phillies.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it will make more sense when we start seeing these guys in action and they really feel like a Phillies rotation. But, until then, I still can't help but stare at this group in photos or their names in print and wonder if someone's playing a cruel practical joke on me.

How else can you explain this quote from Lee on Monday? "For me, it was the Phillies all the way. I played here before on what was a really good team and they've made some additions since then to make them even better. I felt like this was the best chance to win a world championship."

To newer phans, this quote makes eminent sense. The Phillies are a franchise that wins. But, to older fans, it's just another "holy shit" moment that we better get used to.

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cognitive dissonance to dissipate

Try saying that 5 times fast.

BOILER UP!! 2010-2011

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Feb 18, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions

poetic potential possibly.

by Wet Luzinski on Feb 18, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions

Every once in a while my husband and I look at each other and say, “Can you beleve this shit? This is beautiful.” Long, long way away from seeing Omar Daal and Andy Ashby as our opening day starter.

Aristotle was not Belgian, the principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself", and the London Underground is not a political movement.

by doubleh on Feb 18, 2011 11:46 AM EST reply actions

I was thinking about how, 10 years ago or so, Joe Blanton would be our number 1 starter and now he’s clearly number 5. Also, the team would be saying something like “we may not have a number 1, but we have five number 2s”. When in reality they’d have a 3 and some 4s…

Lot of numbers in this post.

by kazz on Feb 18, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions

Actually 10 years ago we had Randy Wolf who posted a non-lucky 116 ERA+ that year, so Joe would probably have been our #2 starter. /buzzkill

by taco pal on Feb 18, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions

11 years ago, then. Or 9. Or 44. Or 26. Or, if n = 2011 – 1883, n years ago (with a few exceptions).

by Phrozen on Feb 18, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions

Well, 11 we had Schilling for half the year, and Robert Person was actually 3.5 WAR. 9 we had Wolf at 3.5 WAR and Padilla at 3.4 WAR.

by taco pal on Feb 18, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions

Well, that’s true, isn’t it.

Plus, my inequality isn’t actually an inequality. It should read: if n < 2011 – 1883, then any n (with few exceptions).

by Phrozen on Feb 18, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

Good thing i threw that ‘or so’ in there. But you get my point. Wolf, Person, Padilla, etc all had good years at some point but weren’t consistently top of the rotation pitchers.

by kazz on Feb 18, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions

Wolf is a pretty sad story, in hindsight. I often forget how good he was when he was young. If not for injuries, his career could have been so much better. And you’ve got to wonder how much Larry F’in Bowa contributed to those injuries. His pitch counts weren’t the worst I’ve ever seen, but there were some pretty bad ones in that time period.

by taco pal on Feb 18, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, I’ve always liked Wolf even though he rehabed with the Phillies and bolted. He’s at least managed to be a solid pitcher despite the arm trouble and I think will be a pretty important guy in Milwaukee this year.

by kazz on Feb 18, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions

Then be my guest and put him on YOUR fantasy team.

by Wet Luzinski on Feb 18, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions

I made that mistake last year

by tkrzy on Feb 18, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions

Solidarity

by Wet Luzinski on Feb 18, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

With a franchise as old as the Phillies it was only a matter of time until things snowballed. 128 years in the making.

by J. Wil on Feb 18, 2011 1:08 PM EST reply actions

you can’t help but sit back and wonder how the hell this happend.

by h2o_34_35_44 on Feb 18, 2011 2:58 PM EST reply actions

I’d like to take this opportunity to mention Amaury Telemaco as a former terrible starter. That is two straight posts I’ve made a relevant reference to him. I wonder how long I can do this. Probably until opening day.

by RodeoJones on Feb 18, 2011 3:07 PM EST reply actions

He really wasn’t that bad. There were certainly far worse guys.

by taco pal on Feb 18, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

better as a reliever than starter.

by RodeoJones on Feb 21, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

Koosman is the outlier

Calvin Maduros, Matt Beeches, David Palmers, Jerry Koosmans, and Brandon Duckworth

Koosman at least was good at some time (early 1970s). Of course, not with the Phils. But it is a bad sign if “Brandon Duckworth” could be the answer to the question: “Who had the second best career among these 5 pitchers?”

In a related note, I completely forgot Valenzuela played for the Phils (he’s mentioned in the other thread). Of course, again, not when he was good.

I have a sufficient quantity of grey and also a significant amount of bewilderment as well as joy at the Cliff Lee saga.

Set your JVR in 2011.

by Bud in TN on Feb 18, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions

Yeah, I was using Koosman the Phillie….

by David S. Cohen on Feb 18, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

Would you believe that Palmer’s WAR in his one season with the Phils was 2.0 in 22 starts?

by taco pal on Feb 18, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions

Also, he was good when he was younger, it seems. Way, way better than Duckworth.

by taco pal on Feb 18, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions

damn politics

when i checked the site this morning upon arriving at work. the title clearly stated “shit”. now i hafta look at the jumble of symbols and insinuate the word ‘shit’. unacceptable.

by PHIGHTINPHILS on Feb 18, 2011 3:59 PM EST reply actions