Silver lining for Contreras to DL?

by shagging flies on Apr 24, 2011 7:10 PM EDT

I'm glad to see Jose Contreras going to the DL. It's not that I wish any harm on the man and I do want to see him back; It's just that at this point I want to see if Ryan Madson really can close. I think it's fair to say that we will not be bringing Brad Lidge back in 2012 and we need to know if Madson actually has what it takes to do the job. I keep hearing that he doesn't have what it takes to be closer and if he doesn't that's fine. I would just rather know the answer to that question this year rather than in 2012. We would at least be going into the offseason knowing we need a closer - there will be more available in the winter than in May of next year.

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…we need to know if Madson actually has what it takes to do the job.

I’d say being one of the best relievers in baseball over the past few years should do it, but hell, what do I know?

by PhillyFriar on Apr 24, 2011 8:04 PM EDT reply actions

Exactly. They seem to have this notion that he can’t handle the 9th. I’m looking forward to seeing him do it.

by shagging flies on Apr 24, 2011 8:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

He has the stuff to do it, no doubt…but Madson is the one that has doubted himself in the ninth inning. He has made several comments that suggest that he believes there is a different mindset (closer mentality) that you need to pitch in the 9th and waffles when asked if he can handle it by seemingly convincing himself in his answer…i.e. “I believe I am ready….I definitely am ready.” I have watched every pitch of every game over the past 5 seasons since I moved back to this area. You could see the difference in his body language on the mound in the 9th as if his lack of confidence permeated each pitch. However, that has all been different since he returned from kicking the chair last year. It is almost as if he got to a point where he just doesn’t care anymore and just gets after it. If he continues on this path he will more than adequately fill the role of closer, but these next few weeks are crucial for his confidence and his paycheck going forward. If he fails as he did in the past, I believe the Phils would be hesitant to give him closer money…but, if he succeeds, he not only will get paid, but he will act the part when the time comes. A lot of this is my opinion of course, except for the reference to past Madson comments about closing.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo

by DirtyWaters on Apr 24, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Just because Madson thinks it doesn’t make it true. His opinion is just as baseless as anyone else’s. He doesn’t understand why the results were what they were, so he comes up with an after-the-fact justification. That doesn’t make it accurate.

by taco pal on Apr 24, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions

True, but if he believes he is unable to close, it may factor into his pitching, and, in effect, become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Think Little Engine that Could, but replace “Little Engine” with “Ryan Madson,” and replace “Could” with “Can’t Close,”

Obviously he’s got the talent and/or skill. But he’s actually got to perform as well.

by Phrozen on Apr 24, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I know that confidence in your own ability is not a statistic, but it is the single most important thing in sport. His opinion may be as baseless as anyone else’s…but, it is his opinion, and that is all that matters. He simply will not be the dominant closer that he projects to be unless he first believes he can do it. If you don’t understand that, than you don’t understand sports.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo

by DirtyWaters on Apr 25, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I would counter that just because Madson says he lacks confidence doesn’t mean he actually lacks confidence.

His opinion is not all that matters. In fact it doesn’t matter at all. It’s what’s actually within him that matters. His opinion is just his explanation for it.

But yeah I guess it’s also possible that I just don’t understand sports. That seems like an equally meritorious and well considered argument.

by taco pal on Apr 25, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I misunderstood you…now I see what you are saying. I have come to conclusions based on his body language, public statements, and performance (mind you I think he has changed since he kicked the chair) and you are not saying that I’m wrong, but making the valid point that what he says doesn’t necessarily reflect reality which is independent of understanding the importance of self-confidence.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo

by DirtyWaters on Apr 25, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Right. This will be his chance, I want him to get over whatever mental block he has and do it already, he definitely has the stuff to do it. If he doesn’t have the mental stuff it’s better to know now so we can make plans

by shagging flies on Apr 24, 2011 9:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Personally, I’m looking forward more to seeing what Bastardo can do given more high-leverage innings. That guy might end up being the closer next year if the Phillies decide not to outbid the competition for Madson.

by phatj on Apr 24, 2011 10:54 PM EDT reply actions

That would leave the Phillies very lefty-deficient.

by philsandthrills on Apr 24, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed. As it is, the only left handed FA reliever under 34 years old on the market this offseason is Dontrelle Willis, assuming anyone with an option gets picked up (which is very likely with lefites).

by Joecatz on Apr 28, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Could always re-sign Romero for another year.

Lefty relievers tend to pitch until they’re really old.

by taco pal on Apr 28, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe its the DTA conspiracy theorist in me, but I have believed (purely opinion, nothing factual to back it up, mind you) since Lidge went on the DL and Contreras was named the “closer” that that decision was made at the time for two reasons:

1. They felt either Madson or Contreras could do the job

2. Contreras is already signed through next year.

3. The phillies believe Madson has the stuff to close, but wanted to do everything they could to avoid letting him close when they had another option, so when he ASKS for closer money in the offseason, the lack of a proven track record will make it more difficult for him to get a 3 year closer-money deal from someone else, therefore allowing reuben to pay him a more reasonable 2 year type deal, and….Insert him as the teams closer.

This theory is now rendered moot, of course, and will never be able to be proven.

by Joecatz on Apr 28, 2011 11:11 AM EDT reply actions