Why I think the Phillies should let Madson walk next year
In case you haven't heard, the Phillies moved Justin DeFratus and Phillipe Aumont to AAA last night. That to me says the Phillies think both could be September callups this year, and could be on the major league roster at the break of camp next year. Those two, along with thier new AAA teammate Micheal Schwimmer, give the Phillies 3 really good relief prospects in AAA, and 5 really good, young cost controlled relievers in total, with Stutes and Bastardo already making hitters look silly in big leauges.
Jose Contreras is under contract for next year, as is Herdon. I think the 7 guys I mentioned would give the Phillies a pretty strong bullen next year. You could also swap Herdon out for a LOOGY (maybe Zagurski), which wouldn't be a bad idea. 2 things I'm assuming: Lidge will be bought out (fingers crossed), and Kendrick doesn't come back next year. The reason I believe Kendrick doesn't come back next year is he's already making more than he's worth, and will likely get a raise if the Phillies take him to arbitration.
The big question in my hypothetical situation is who would close, and I would say Bastardo. He's been pretty much unhittable this year and has closed a few games out already. In the event that the league figures him out, or he gets hurt (which is a definite possiblity given his history), I believe that Aumont, Contreras and DeFratus could form a 'good enough to get by' closer by committee.
The point is, the Phillies just don't need Ryan Madson. Especially if he's going to be looking for $7-10 million a year. It would be nice to have him, but the Phillies have some holes to fill elsewhere next year, and with $113 million already commited to the 2012 team, they really can't afford to be spending money on luxeries like a closer.
We need to resign Hamels, we need a new LFer, we need to resign Rollins/sign someone else to play short, and we need to decide about Oswalt. I think I remeber Jayson Stark saying that he believed Hamels would get about 5 yrs/100 million, which I think would be fair given how dominant Hamels has been this year. I think the Phillies will ultimately end up picking up Oswalt's option, which is $16 million. While $16 million seems like a lot for a declining Oswalt, you have to remeber that the buy-out on his contract is $2 million and therefore a sunk cost. I don't think we are going to find a better option on the market at $14 million for one year.
With Oswalt and Hamels signed, the Phillies will be up to $147 million dollars in payroll, and would still have to fill the other two holes mentioned. My gut says the Phillies resign Rollins for about $40 million/3 yrs, brining the payroll up to around $160 million, without a left fielder. I expect payroll to be around $170 million next year, like it is this year, so that would give the Phils about $10 million to play with.
To me, it comes down to this; would the Phillies rather have an unproven, but talented, closer and a pricey left fielder to boost the offense, or would they rather have Madson closing with a logjam of young bullpen arms while being forced to play Ben Francisco for 130 games next year?
In my mind, the better option is clearly to let Madson walk. And if you've made it this far down the fanpost, you'll probably be happy to hear that Madson will likely be a type A FA, which would net the Phillies two high draft picks, which is never a bad thing.
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I sincerely doubt Oswalt will be back. While I agree at $14 Mil he’s a bargain. $14 M is an extremely expensive #4 starter. Why not simply make Blanton 4, Worley #5 and you just saved $13.5 M, which would be plenty to pay Madson, let’s say $9 M, then you take the remaining $5 M add it to the $10 M you mentioned being left over and you have a quality reliever and a even better LF option?
I think the one thing you’re forgetting is that Madson is, like, really really good. As in better than any of those young guys, as much as I like them all.
I do think that the Phillies should be open to letting Madson walk if the market gets too high, but if it doesn’t get too high they should sign him.
by taco pal on Jun 16, 2011 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
3/33 would essentially be a reduction from what Lidge’s last contract was. I’d be comfortable in that neighborhood.
Just because it’s what Lidge got doesn’t mean that it’d be a smart investment. Madson is very good. However, his marginal utility to this club is probably not 11 million.
by philsandthrills on Jun 16, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I've said this before
Countless times, but my issue with Madson (or Heath Bell, or Jonathan Papelbon) is more about the length of contract than the AAV. Of the three, Madson is THE ONLY ONE I would be willing to see get a three year deal, solely based on his track record. That said, I don’t know how much more than 3/33 I’m willing to see him get.
This I feel pretty strongly about:
1. I don’t think Contreras can be relied upon to close for the full season. He needs rest days, and off days, and is like, 60 years old in Cuban years. Also, I’m not sure how effective he will be without Baez around in the clubhouse. Their connection has a lot to do with Baez still being around.
2. Before we go annointing Stutes and Bastardo (and Aumont and DeFratus, who have yet to pitch an inning at AAA) the heir apparents, lets give them both a full season (and the AA guys the rest of the season at AAA) to see what they do in a larger sample. While both have been very very good, both have some red flag stats to suggest they are pitching beyond their abilities a tad:
Madson has a 2.10 ERA, a 2.73 xFIP (3.53 vs LHB, and a SICK 2.17 against RHB), and his BABIP against is .316, which suggests a bit of bad luck as well.
- Bastardo has a ridiculous .167 BABIP
- While his ERA is 1.05, his xFIP is 3.44, (2.55 against lefties, and 3.98 against righties)
- the xFIP worries me as a closer, since, he is likely to face MORE RHB over the course of a season than LHB.
- He needs to get through the entire season without a trip to the you know what to prove past issues are no longer issues…
*Stutes also has a very low BABIP (.217)
- His ERA of 2.25 and an even HIGher xFIP of 4.02 suggests regression
*against RHB his BABIP is .179 with a 3.43 xFIP - against lefties… UGLY. 5.0s xFIP, and his BB/9 jumps to 9.82
I’m not trying to discount what either of them have done this year, on the contrary, they’ve been maybe the best thing to watch, as a fan of developmental talent, for me this season, and are both awesome stories. They’ve also both gotten very lucky, been used fairly correctly, etc… and I’m not ready to pass judgement in either direction until November.
by Joecatz on Jun 17, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
nice points. I like Bastardo and Stutes a lot, and they’ll be great to have around in the next few years (homegrown bullpen arms on the Phillies, who’da thunk it!), but they’re due for some regression.
by perfectdepth on Jun 18, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess they’ll have to find someone else to go on that Cruise in January.
by Cormican on Jun 16, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

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