Sweep Raulease: Phillies 6, Pirates 5 (10)
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2011 6:00 PM EDT
Email
Print
Although they seem to win just about every series these days, it has been quite a long time since the Phillies swept an opponent. In fact, not since a four game sweep of the Marlins from June 14th to 16th have they accomplished the feat. And for a while today, it seemed like their effort to close out an opponent would yet again be denied.
For most of the day it was a back and forth affair. Vance Worley took the hill for the Phillies and pitched a much better game than his final line would indicate. He had his strikeout stuff working early and was making the Pirates look downright silly, striking out five straight over one stretch from the first to third innings. He encountered some trouble in the fifth, though, when Xavier Paul blooped a two-out single to left with runners on second and third to give the Pirates their first lead of the day.
The Phillies answered right back in the bottom half, however. A Brian Schneider double, Michael Martinez single, and Worley sacrifice bunt put runners on second and third with one out for Jimmy Rollins who stroked a single to right to put the Philles back on top 3-2.
But the Pirates returned the Phillies return volley in the top of the sixth. Worley's miniscule 3.9% HR/FB ratio took a step towards regressing when, with two outs, he allowed a two-out two-run homer to the soon-to-be redundant Lyle Overbay (the Pirates completed a trade for Derrek Lee last night). Once again, the Phillies found themselves down a run.
The Pirates tacked on another run against Brad Lidge in the top of the seventh to make the score 5-3. And there it stayed until the bottom of the bottom of the eighth. Ryan Howard knocked a one out double against lefty reliever Joe Beimel, but when Hunter Pence followed with a groundball to deep short that would have made for a very difficult play at first base, Howard inexplicably took off for third and was explicably gunned down. Momentarily, it appeared that the Phillies had run themselves out of the inning. Then Raul Ibanez stepped to the plate. Already with one home run to his credit--a deep shot to center that gave the Phillies the early 1-0 lead--he took Jose Veras first pitch out to left field to tie the game at five. (And before you say "BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A THREE RUN SHOT!", keep in mind the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.)
Two nice innings of relief from Ryan Madson and Antonio Bastardo twice put the Phillies in prime position to walk things off, which they did in the bottom of the tenth. Hunter Pence slapped a double down the left field line and Raul Ibanez--already the hero once--came through again smashing a base hit to the right field wall allowing Pence to score with ease. If Ibanez manages to stay hot at the plate, it would certainly make some fans regret Domonic Brown's temporary demotion a bit less.
It did today, at least.
669 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
.761 (!)
Baseball: the only sport whose commissioner wants you to think it is still 1960.
by phillies fan in bowie on Jul 31, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
His HR/FB ratio took a turn towards a natural regression, but other than that, Worley pitched well today.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
by Justin F. on Jul 31, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Uh, what about this start was that bad?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
6 IP, 7 Hits (not good) 4 Earned Runs (not that bad) 7 SO (good)
That’s a typical decent Cliff Lee start. One big home run, high strikeouts.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Ah yes, the best part about Vance’s performance- the strikeout to walk ratio.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2011 6:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just looking at the fangraph makes my stomach churn. Good thing it is only a visual.
Hey, a sweep! Best Record in Baseball!
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
Didn’t enjoy the roller coaster ride of the game?
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2011 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I said this in the game thread, but Clint Hurdle is royally screwing over his team with his slavish devotion to The Book™ and not putting in his best reliever in the game. Three times his team lost games with Joel Hanrahan sitting in the bullpen this week. We have rightly killed Charlie for mismanaging the bullpen like that in the past, but for the Pirates, this may end up making a real difference in their season. But I guess we’ll have to see how the rest of the season goes.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
Actually a correction: it already has made a difference in the season. They could be only a game or two out instead of 4.5
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
did you even read
the fallacy of the predetermined outcome link?
You can’t say they’d be in any different situation, the odds are astronomical!
I kid, of course.
"On the flip side, though, Bleeding Green Nation cites a PFF study that says Jackson dropped the highest percentage of catchable passes (19.67 percent) of any receiver in the league last year. I think he also dropped that punt at the end of the last Giants game. But then he picked it back up."
Oh, I know, they could have still lost all three games, but they aren’t even trying in that regard.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And that is just this week!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well this Pirates’ slump/regression is a very predictable, I mean sad thing to watch.
Trade me while I still have value
If the Pirates did well, it’d be more incentive for teams to not try and hope to get lucky. They may be a fun story, but how can anyone support their business model?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Every team has the same payroll?
Maybe that would work. Baseball is apparently taking a dip in popularity (Colin Cowherd’s words not mine) in comparison to football and basketball. I don’t see it happening.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
In case you haven’t noticed Colin Cowherd’s an idiot.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s so idiotic that people even thought it might make an interesting sitcom…
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm aware.
I wonder who is stupider… Skip Bayless or Colin Cowherd.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Cowherd. Just by the ratio. Skip does say some intelligent things. Occasionally. I am hard-pressed to find any by Cowherd.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What really gets me about Cowherd is his race-baiting that he gets away with. He seems to say things every week that would get other people fired from ESPN. But yeah his comments on baseball just make him look idiotic. For one thing it’s been the standard line of football people that “baseball’s way down in popularity” since the sixties. If anything I would say that baseball is up in popularity from five years ago while football is down from five years ago.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Cowherd is....
only on ESPN for ratings? I know a lot of people who hate him. I still don’t see the point of him on Sportsnation nor the show itself.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Him on the show – no point. The show itself – to show off Michelle Beadle.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Michelle Beadle is average at most.
She’s 35….
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t passing judgment one way or another, but rather that is the point – so Beadle can become the next Erin Andrews.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Erin Andrews is beautiful. Wish i went to UF 10 years earlier.
by phillyphan9208 on Jul 31, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Michelle Beadle freely admits that she’s not a fan of Erin Andrews. “Everyone who knows me knows that,” she tells me. It hasn’t affected any of the hierarchy at ESPN at this point, but Beadle’s admission in the new ESPN oral history that she watched Erin’s peephole vid could put the WWL in the precarious position of having to side with one of their premier talents over another.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey now. Watch what you say 'bout my Beadle.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with 35 year olds…or older women for that matter. At least she knows sports, which is refreshing.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Amen to that- one of my pet peeved is all of the female sports talking heads that are brought on as eye candy, but don’t know thing one about sports- not only are they taking up a space that could be given to an announcer (of either gender) who knows their stuff, but they perpetuate the theory (which we know is NOT true) that women don’t know anything about sports.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2011 7:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well I mean if that’s the case they could have done better. I mean I wouldn’t complain or nuthin’ but there’s much better eye candy out there than that.
Check this out.
Michelle Beadle freely admits that she’s not a fan of Erin Andrews. “Everyone who knows me knows that,” she tells me. It hasn’t affected any of the hierarchy at ESPN at this point, but Beadle’s admission in the new ESPN oral history that she watched Erin’s peephole vid could put the WWL in the precarious position of having to side with one of their premier talents over another.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I have never been a fan of a cap as they make sports lets exciting for the fans.
WHAT I MEAN IS – you need a statistics guy in charge. You need to make moves based on value and return and how they fit in to your system and all kinds of stuff RAJ probably can’t do (or doesn’t have to do.) Football has a pretty good cap and all, but Hockey especially suffers (it needs a cap) from not being able to make much in the way of free agent splashes, or contracts that aren’t a decade long.
In Baseball, you can do what the Phillies just did. And good or bad, it’s exciting. Pittsburgh (while a very big sports town) doesn’t try.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I don’t think I explained my position well but I am quite hungry.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Well in other sports it makes sense, but not baseball. If there was a cap this is what would happen. The NYY would go ape shit with rookie bonuses and would sign every decent foreign player to like 8 million dollar bonuses. Nothing would change because of the way talent has to be accrued, it’s just a different animal.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh just received
Ryan Ludwick
The Pittsburgh Pirates added another right-handed bat by acquiring outfielder Ryan Ludwick from the San Diego Padres for a player to be named later.
They are trying this year.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hockey has a salary cap.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2011 7:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What precisely do you mean by “not try”? Not spend money? Spending money neither causes success (ask the Cubs or Mets how that experiment turned out) nor does the failure to do so prevent it (see the Rays and certain iterations of the Marlins). Money does make it easier, as it allows talent to be purchased to supplement what is in the system and allows a team to cut ties with players that prove to be mistakes. The Pirates are a smaller market team whose economic model relies on being able to get production out of players from their farm system and trades for players not making huge salaries. This does not mean that they are not trying, and in fact they have spent the last several years under the new administration re-building their system from bottom to top- and it is starting to pay dividends- a little sooner than even they thought.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 1, 2011 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey!
Not only that, but congress looks like it will allow the US economy to continue to function by passing a debt ceiling increase! That, plus Brown not being traded, means we may yet avert complete disaster with both the Phillies and the global economy.
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t want to get into politics right now, but it truly amazes me that it took this long. Our system of government is broken and archaic.
/Poli Sci rant over
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of it was posturing, except for those in the Tea Party who refused to raised the limit at all, and seem to lack a basic understanding of macroeconomics. If businesses and foreign governments believed in a serious risk of default, we would have seen a ton of money moving out of US markets before now (In fact, this may have well happened tomorrow without this most recent progress, being the last day before the ‘official’ deadline).
Sorry if this is too off topic for this site. I am just somewhat relieved despite what I mentioned in the previous paragraph, due to how disasterously short-sighted congress appeared to be acting.
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I wouldn’t say that the Tea Party lacks a basic understanding of macroeconomics. I would say that the Tea Party simply lacks a basic understanding.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't we just cut some programs....
like NASA…. I stop watching the news since I was 15. ( 2003)
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The government actually spends more money air conditioning tents in Afghanistan then NASA’s entire budget.
It’s true.
http://gizmodo.com/5813257/air-conditioning-our-military-costs-more-than-nasas-entire-budget
I hope you guys all enjoy your GPSes, weather forcasting, Google Maps, and Astronaut Pens.
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
hey now they are tracking giant fucking space boulders that could possibly hit the planet at 20000 mph. I wanna make sure there’s someone watching for that and figuring out a way that doesn’t invovle Ben Affllack in a space suit trying to save our asses.
They accomplished the mission! Because they are Winners™ and have Grit™
Can you imagine being one of those guys who lived through that. I’d be on a bender that would make the 10 day boozefest I had after boot camp look like a glass of wine with dinner.
It’d be freaking sweet.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If the solution is to throw Ben Affleck at the boulder I wouldn’t be opposed
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And Bruce Willis and Michael Clark Duncan?!?! Championship roster right there.
Plus, Billy Bob calling the shots. Say what you want but the man is a good leader. Bad News Bears coach, Friday Night Lights coach AND saved the world from an Asteroid!
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true, and Angelina Jolie in real life. Grit™
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Who cares, she’s hot.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like it’s time to remake The House Bunny
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I didn’t know who she was. I still don’t.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I think it was Anna Faris someone said looks like another actress. I can’t remember who that original actress was though.
Oh well. Time to mention Emma Stone. Also, did you see the guy who played Mark Zukerberg in the Facebook movie is in that movie 30 Minutes Or Less? I did not like him in that movie solely because he was playing Zuckerberg, but he looks excellent in that movie. I plan to see it when it comes out. Danny McBride was excellent earlier this year in Your Highness.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
She’s never done it for me. Of course it doesn’t help that I can’t stand her dad or Aerosmith.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He finally married her?!?
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tonights topic on 97.5 “Call in with your thoughts on how Hunter Pence’s protection has allowed the debt ceiling debate to end”
By the way, the fact that congress and the president waited until the last minute to pass a deal is the least shocking thing ever.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I am actually surprised they did it this early (I really thought it would happen minutes before midnight)
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You're surprised?
I didn’t want him to, but I knew last year the President would fold. When he capitulated over the Bush tax cuts (“Top 1/5th?” “NEVER.” “+$250,000/year?” “GO TELL HELL, COMMIE.” “Top 1%?” “GO BACK TO KENYA.” “Okay, I’ll give you everything you want.”), I knew the man had good intentions, but was a completely ineffective politician.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
Then you have Bill Maher who say the American people are stupid.
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t like him, but he isn’t wrong on that one.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There are stupid people in every country. They do more harm in America than in some other countries because of the way our institutions are designed, among other things.
Yeah, but most countries marginalize theirs. We elect ours.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
America is not special
America isn’t special. I used to live in Belgium — go look up a little bit about the Belgian government and what it has done in the past two years.
Here’s a hint: They don’t even have one due to gridlock.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like they’re just accelerating our path lol
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Belgium has gone longer without a government
Thank Iraq did.
Mull that over for a bit.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a hilarious TV news piece about a year ago where some European network interviewed a bunch of random Belgians, asking them to sing the Belgian national anthem. Nobody knew what it was and the last guy they asked started singing La Marsellaise.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 7:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Holy crap. I’ll admit that I had not watched this; my mother told me about it and omitted that detail.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing that I love about American life. Everyone agrees that Americans are stupid, but nobody thinks they’re one of the stupid Americans.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
To be fair, he was always officially in favor of bipartisanship and compromise. He was just completely caught off guard when the Republicans as a whole refused to compromise on any issue. That, combined with the Senate filibuster, makes it nearly impossible to govern.
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you compromise?
If you’re the opposition party, would you compromise? The Republicans were going to get what they wanted. They had the leverage. Why compromise? The President has a history of folding, so why not stare him down?
Well, they stared the Democrats down, and the Republicans got a landslide victory. This deal is even more conservative than the average Republican voter would ask for (I can find a recent NY Times article to prove that, if you’d like.)
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it’s good politics if you’re acting purely to ensure electoral victory. Obama just completely didn’t expect the Republicans to act lockstep against his agenda, long term health of the country be damned. It’s his failing that he wasn’t able to counter and capitulated to whatever the republicans wanted.
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He was caught between a rock and a hard place. I certainly wish that he’d negotiated differently, but it is what it is and now we have to focus on getting rid of these crazy bastards next year. We’re not even out of the woods yet. I kind of wish that Obama would just use the 14th Amendment option if for no other reason than that the hard right wing’s reaction would be hilarious.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh...
Considering that Article 1 of the Constitution explicitly prohibits him from doing that, all that would have accomplished is setting off a shitstorm at the Supreme Court.
Also, from the Republicans’ view, here’s the thing. The debt limit had to be raised, but what pissed a lot of them off was the fact that, originally, the White House wanted it raised without anything being done to restrain government spending, and the Republicans won last year because people wanted that trend of the last 50+ years reversed.
I’m not a fan of the tea party and thought they could have compromised sooner, but the truth is, I’m glad that this got deal got done. If it hadn’t, our credit rating as a country would still take a hit.
If it hadn’t, our credit rating as a country would still take a hit.
Actually, multiple commentators suggest it still might.
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
It’s kind of up in the air right now, yeah. I misspoke on that, but my point is, the risk has been lessened, versus had we actually had gridlock or had nothing at all been even included on trying to at least get the budget mess under control, we would definitely be downgraded.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, wait they didn’t pass it…never mind.
What I get for CNN’s alert on my phone being worded badly…
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Not entirely your fault. Obama said in the news conference “A deal is struck!” then I learned via AP/Reuters that actually, the bill is being distributed to lawmakers tonight. Plenty of time for extreme views on both sides to prevail. :-((
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
The credit rating agencies have a lot of nerve dictating terms to the United States government after they helped sink the world economy.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehhh…it’s not entirely their fault. What happened was the assumption that Fannie & Freddie would operated according to Banking 101, i.e., not make loans to people who can’t repay them. And if, by some chance, things went wrong, the federal government would bail them out. The ratings agencies made logical assumptions based on what turned out to be extremely stupid decisions. And it just went downhill from there.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Though I do think Moody’s and S&P shouldn’t have all this power, either, but I’m just saying, you can’t blame just them.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a case of a near-monopolistic industry without any significant oversight. There essentially are no checks or balances within the rating industry, because S&P and Moody’s tend to be fairly well in lockstep. Unless it becomes more diverse, there’s nothing to prevent these sort of errors, since there’s no major incentive to compete.
Bob.
Yeah, Dodd-Frank was supposed to help rectify that, though I hear they wanted to repeal that along with other stuff.
The bill has problems, don’t get me wrong, but reining in the CRAs definitely isn’t one of them.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, we’ve again wandered into an area where I did some academic work. But that’s only going to remind me that I need to go back to work. :-((
Short version: the groups I blame the most are (1) investment bankers (2) money center bankers (3) ratings agencies. Since CSIs dissecting the dotcom debacle found fingerprints of group 1 in that tragedy as well, it is very annoying that few of them have faced any kind of penalty (legal or financial) at all
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
Of course it’s not entirely their fault. But labeling CDO’s which included large numbers of subprime mortgage loans as AAA was incredibly irresponsible. How hard could it have been to determine that these loans were bad? It’s one thing to make logical assumptions which turn out to be wrong, but if the ratings agencies had done their due diligence and tightened up their standards, we might have avoided the worst of the crisis.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering that Article 1 of the Constitution explicitly prohibits him from doing that, all that would have accomplished is setting off a shitstorm at the Supreme Court.
I’m not so sure. There is zero jurisprudence on that issue, and as far as any shitstorm is concerned, it would take years for any case to proceed to the Supreme Court. Mind you, I would be quite happy if he didn’t go there.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If it’s a dispute between two branches of government, the Supreme Court would fast-track it. It’s just one of those issues that, while there isn’t any actual precedent, the end result would be a no-win for both sides. That’s the shitstorm I’m referring to.
Honestly, our current setup isn’t any different from what’s been happening since the 18th century. Hell, it’s not like Eric Cantor went & beat Harry Reid to death in the Senate chamber (and yes, that really did happen in the past).
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know about Preston v. Sumner.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt the Supreme Court would even have jurisdiction. I think the only remedy available would be impeachment.
The Court is the final arbiter of interpreting statutory & Constitutional language, so yes, they would.
Impeachment is a nonstarter because 1) Until a ruling is made on how the 14th Amendment affects Article 1 (Congress having sole ‘power of the purse’), it wouldn’t be clear that he’s actually done anything wrong; and 2) Even if he is somehow impeached, the Senate likely wouldn’t convict him, because 67 votes are needed to actually remove him from office.
It is fascinating, though. My bachelor’s is in political science, and I always enjoy it when stuff like this comes up. Delaware suing New Jersey a few years back was a fun case study, too.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Psssft, no
America isn’t special. I used to live in Belgium — go look up a little bit about the Belgian government and what it has done in the past two years.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Dangit, wrong thread to reply to
This was in response to the one right above, with Ed Van Chimp.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Flanders
But not Wallonia.
Brugge is very nice.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I sure hope so!
But if he goes 0-5 tomorrow with 2 k’s we’ll know what’s up…
25.8/106 CURRENTLY HOT!!!
Hopefully it will get extended for three more days in the Thin Air™ of Denver.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I believe you mean the Thin Mountain Air™.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, well played!
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Jul 31, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Just looking at the pictures from today’s game, and is it me or does RAJ look a bit like Orson Welles?
nah, orson welles looks less paranoid
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jul 31, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I should’ve tried to photoshop in a cigar so it’d be more of a 1:1 comparison
by AshburnAllie on Jul 31, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Veni.
Orson looks he is going to killed the photographer and Amaro is “like can I trade these sunglasses with tastykakes for Upton.”
by chillyphilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Amaro looks like Shatner in Star Trek IV pawning glasses.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Did anyone else see his press conference today? It was a perfect argument for the Smug Warning being dropped to nothing- he looked tired, and almost defeated- not smug at all.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m surprised Raul got credited with a double on the walk-off. Is that scorer’s discretion? I’d be shocked if Raul got to second before Pence scored.
Funny Pence got robbed of another hit. 2-9 instead of 4-9 now.
Which hit was he robbed of? Was it his fielder’s choice?
It would be hard after these two days to say he doesn’t hit. He’s getting on base and hitting the ball. It’s a bit impressive.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
yes, the fielder’s choice. Arguably a baserunning error by Howard who could have stayed at second and it’s doubtful they could have gotten him at first.
Just goes to show baseball is a sport more than any other judged on statistics, but its statistics aren’t even that reliable. I suppose in the grand scheme of things it is just part of Pence’s BABIP regression. On the flip side of the coin I was also shocked that Pence didn’t get charged with an error in the first.
It should be an error to Howard. The guy is huge and shouldn’t be trying to stretch plays. Especially on a second to third – stay at second, you’re in scoring position.
And a note to everyone here having fun with hustle and grit, this is not racism.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I agree- particularly since a better angle going second to third and Howard may have made it.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pence clearly slowed up to allow Raul to reach 2nd for the double…what a team player
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
And I thought he was only here to protect Ryan- such a multi-tasker!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
hunter pence facts
Hunter Pence is an alum of the same high school as Ali Haji-Sheikh and Dimebag Darrell Abbott.
Oh come on, Pantera is one of the premier thrash metal bands. That may not be your cup of tea, but they were one of the highlights of the genre.
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
.....
No their not my cup of tea, because while I respect their musicianship and love Dimebags riffs, Pantera, the total package, is an overproduced, overbearingly macho, commerical piece of crap. But it’s a quality, enjoyable piece of crap. For the most part, I was too busy listening to Napalm Death break new ground by pushing the Thrashcore and Thrash Metal sound I listened to as a teen to the next level and pave the way for grindcore bands like Assück. I didn’t have too much time for Pantera because Bolt Thrower kept making too many good records. Pantera is just too affected – maybe they were trying to compensate for their hair/power metal days (still Dimebag’s riffs are great despite the utter power metal disaster) …really who the fuck writes songs like “5 Minutes Alone” and “Walk” unless they are trying too hard to sell their fabricated bad ass image. And Phil Anselmo is the love child Glenn Danzig and Fred Durst. Seriously what an ass. I’ll still listen to them for the riffs though – they do rock, just stupidly. But they get no other consideration from me and so I refuse to credit them with inventing the groove metal genre as many readily do. Bad Brains (I Against I ) were already doing it in 1986, 4 years before Cowboys From Hell was released. And then a year before in 1989 (Soul Craft). As were Killing Joke ( The Wait) and Chrome (Armageddon, [ click blue arrow]) throughout the 80’s. Also Prong, who were influenced by Killing Joke and Chrome, began to incorporate more groove elements in their 1988 album Force Fed (The Taming, Bought and Sold) and even more so in their 1990 big label release Beg to Differ which was actually recorded in 1989.
I put together a small history of the early Thrash bands in case your interested. Thrash consists of several sub genres that developed throughout the 80’s in the Hardcore and Metal underground scenes. .
Thrashcore/Crossover Thrash. Thrashcore is an extreme, faster version of Hardcore from the early to mid-80’s and is the predeccesor of Grindcore. Many Thrashcore bands began to incorporate more Metal elements in their songs. The fusion of Hardcore, Punk and Metal is Crossover Thrash which we just called Crossover.
The Accüsed – Pounding Nails (into Your Coffin), Martha’s Revenge, Slow Death. Crossover band. / Corrosion Of Conformity – Bound , Tell Me. Crossover band. / Cryptic Slaughter – Nuclear Future. Thrashcore band. / Septic Death – Daymare, Burial. Thrashcore band. / Raw Power – State Oppression. Thrashcore band. / DRI – I Don’t Need Society, Do the Dream, Tear It Down. Both Thrashcore (1st song) and Crossover band (2nd and 3rd songs). / Agnostic Front – Liberty And Justice, Eliminator. Crossover band. / Dr. Know – Watch it Burn. Crossover band. / Cro-Mags – We Gotta Know . Crossover band. /Attitude Adjustment - Grey World. Crossover band. / Neurosis – Pain of Mind, To What End. Crossover band.
Non Categorical Thrash for lack of a better term. These bands were pioneers of Progressive metal. They defy standard labels but have alot in common with Thrash Metal and Crossover.
Die Kreuzen – This Hope, No. 3. Hardcore roots, evovled into a more Metal sound. / Voivod – This Is Not An Exercise, Experiment, Brain Scan, Tornado . More rooted in Metal. / Bl’ast – Only Time Well Tell. More rooted in Hardcore. Almost a Crossover version of Black Flag. / Rorschach – Blinders. More rooted in Hardcore.
Thrash Metal (Aside from the obvious – Slayer, Anthrax, Mega Death, Metallica, Sepultura, Exodus)
Prong (early) – Disbelief, Dreams Like That. More hardcore leanings. / Celtic Frost (early) – Morbid Tales, Fainted Eyes. / Kreator – Toxic Trace, Enemy of God. / English Dogs – Ordeal By Fire. In Britain referred to as Punk Metal. / Venom – Black Metal. / Straw Dogs – Trigger Finger, Under the Hammer, Hunger, Carnival In Hell (click on song 1). Kinda like bar rock, shitkickin’ party thrash from Boston (1986)
Pence's Error
I heard it wasn’t scored an error? What was it scored as?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
It was scored a double
It was totally an error though.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
slugfest for the r-phils today vs toronto affiliate
Carlos Rivero 3 for 3 with 3 2B
Anthony Gose 1 for 1 with 4 BB
CARLOS RIVERO
Freddy Galvis had a decent game too, I read on the Twitters. Don’t know the numbers offhand and too lazy to look, but rock on Galvis.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Anthony Gose 1 for 1 with 4 BB
Sebastian Valle does not approve.
Bob.
by The Dark on Jul 31, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like days where the Phillies win and the Braves Mets and Giants all lose.
Trade me while I still have value
The D’Backs aren’t gonna go away. I actually think that race will be competitive in September.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Julio Rodriguez
6.0 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 6 K, 1 HR
24 BF, 5 GB, 1 LD, 11 FB (4 pop)
Lino Martinez left the game for Williamsport after only 2.0 IP.
ptbnl?
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Is it true they have until August 31st to name the PTBNL? That’s seems like an exceptionally long period. This is clearly out of the realm of reasonable possibility, but if they couldn’t come to an agreement, could Pence theoretically be sent back to the Astros at that time?
by The Howling Fantods on Jul 31, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hunter Pence is a bust. Send him down
Times change, like the climate I change. Check the forecast. I reign.
by secondroundpick on Jul 31, 2011 9:10 PM EDT reply actions
Send him back!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 9:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
CBP: a misinformed scapegoat for bad pitchers
I don’t know how the ball went out. It was supposed to be a fly ball, but we’re playing here in Philly.
said Jose Veras as he tried to explain why he left a fastball up in the zone and blew his 5th save of the season.
I think we can expect one of these quotes per series
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
I thought the grounds crew did an excellent job of moving the wall forward for the Phillies at-bats and back for the Pirates at-bats.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
go-go-gadget flower bed
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Also, pitch better and stop making excuses.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Supposedly the Cleveland Indians used to move the outfield fences in and out between series and perhaps even between games when Bill Veeck owned the team.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I love how he says that
like he served up a long fly ball on purpose that magically turned into a HR through forces beyond his control.
I love how he implies that CBP is a bandbox…where two mammoth shots by Howard and Schneider somehow stayed in the yard.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And it’s also not like that ball Raul hit was a very high, lazy flyball either. He hit the piss out of that thing. It was somewhere in between a flyball and a line drive.
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
Maybe it was all the tine spent in Atlanta
They caught Braves disease!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 10:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I really wanted to dislike Pence because I didn’t think that we had to make a trade, but if nothing else, I really do enjoy watching him play. Lets hope that it pays off, both short and long term.
Your logic confounds me. So you didn’t think we needed the trade. I get that and agree. But shouldn’t Ruben Amaro Jr. be the object of your disgust? Why take it out on Hunter Pence? All he wants to do is play baseball. It’s the guys in the boxes who tell him when and where he’s going to play.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah for as much as I’ve bitched about the trade and how much this “plays the game the right way” nonsense annoys me, it is kinda fun to watch him play. And the stuff about him being a “throwback” type player is all basically true. He definitely has an old-school style of play about him.
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
I think he’s fun to watch. In a Raul type of way, but fun regardless. My only complaint is that people want to make him out to be the Jesus freaking Christ of baseball.
Samesis
I think the sMe thing could be said of the way pele treat cliff lee, and he’s arguably the third best starter on this team and has the scone worst contract after Howard.
25.8/106 CURRENTLY HOT!!!
Pence is a likable guy for what it’s worth. However, I’ve grown to dislike the “casual fan” and the “misinformed fan” a little more because of the discussion and debates I’ve had with them over the past week. The Win-Now desperation is so beyond me and it just goes to show how many fans are spoiled and how many are actual baseball fans as opposed to fair weather ones.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I agree and disagree with that. I agree that we shouldn’t keep trading the future to win now. But I disagree that just because you want to “win now” makes you a fake/casual fan. My grandfather said it best, but there is a good chance that these prospects don’t pan out in the future, so you should go for the kill today. Now, I don’t agree with that(and we both agree that we could have sent less for Pence, although he insist Pence is better then bourn and Upton), but I can see his point.
Samesis
I didn’t mean to make it sound like it was mutually inclusive. I want to win now as well. However, I am not in desperation mode where if I were in control, I’d HAVE to make a trade to further secure a marginal increase in chances of winning.
The fake/casual fan observation is from the vast amount of people I’ve talked to about sports and the reasoning and logic behind such a move. Remember how we heard of some people were willing to throw in Worley AND Brown AND all those prospects to get Pence? When you bring up next year, they’d immediately throw in the “Win Now, All In” argument. Statistics meant nothing. Objectivity meant nothing. That was what annoyed me.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Everyone! Make fun of how everyone says he plays the right way with grit and hustle!! It’s racism!!
Oh, but he does play the right way with grit and hustle.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
He does play with grit and hustle, but so does Rollins, Howard, Vic, Mayberry, Polonco….
90% of players in all sports give 100% every play, thats the problem I have with labeling it as a positive to a player.
Samesis
The problem for me is I don’t see the people who are insulting to them. I know Polanco and Victorino get those traits very often. I have always thought Rollins was the definition of grit and hustle. I don’t know why Mayberry was included in that list as he’s not someone anyone talk about (I know why he was included). And Howard… he’s big. He isn’t going to get those compliments by nature.
I am sure there is racism. And I am sure there are situations where these criticisms of people apply. I just miss it. I am sure that those players get complimented. Maybe I am too optimistic towards this and all, but I am confident. For the moment at least.
And PAST all that, it’s been a bit since the trade, I want to like Hunter Pence now. And I don’t want to feel like a racist for liking him.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I have always thought Rollins was the definition of grit and hustle.
He is, but not on the WIP crowd, which, sadly, is the vocal majority for our city to the national media.
Samesis
CSN? then yes, they are the same crowd.
You also have to remember that the media in this town sucks ass too.
Samesis
Now I feel like watching CSN just to see what they say. I am sure they are not some kind of intensely critical of Rollins crowd.
I personally feel the guy is on the decline and should go. But I am kind of alone in that.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
He’ll make less then what he does now, but it’ll be an overpay just because the SS market if so weak in both leagues.
Samesis
I hope he makes less. It always seems people make more as they get older, then after one contract they start to make nothing. But I was feeling that Rollins won’t make much less.
And the SS market IS weak, I was hoping the Phillies would address that a draft or two ago. But luckily someone out there is thinking right, as this draft was awesome!! (Now get them signed!!))
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Was 11th round really the highest spot we drafted SS at?
And Greene Jr. really put me at east with trading Singleton. I need that guy to step in for Howard when his contract expires/we trade him.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Well, he was committed to college. Lots of top tier guys fall into the later rounds because if they dont sign, we lose their rights. And no, we drafted another SS before, but he was the highest ranked player we drafted.
Samesis
Roman Quinn was our second pick. Not signed yet, but they think he will. Not sure if he’s got the glove to stick at ss, though.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re not drafting in like the top 5, the chances of there being a good SS prospect are pretty slim. At that point, you’ve gotta go with those “signability” guys in the later rounds and hope for the best.
How about Latin America? I know the Phillies pride themselves on cheap Latin American pickups, but I wish they’d take a few gambles with bigger money.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Especially if you bring in a guy, build him up artificially for a few years, then trade him.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
There’s a case to be made for any way you do it. On one hand, it’d be nice to spend more money on getting a high level prospect. On the other hand, even with a good Latin American prospect, the chances that you’ll ever get any return on your investment are still pretty terrible. The Phillies seem to prefer to “diversify their portfolio,” so to speak, and hope that one of the lesser prospects they sign will pan out.
I don't know that you can be benched
by your manager for not running out a ground ball and showing a general lack of effort and still be the epitome of grit and hustle. Unless I am misremembering that incident…
The real problem, if I remember, was the ball was mishandled and J-Roll wasn’t trying. In reality it was fine 99.9% of the time because it’s a bang bang play and very few people run those out. But he got caught.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I dunno about that
I see a lot of guys not running routine grounders out to first and the like. I don’t think quite a lot of ballplayers give it 100% all the time. (This isn’t per se a criticism, I don’t give my job 100% all the time.)
Like I said, the other team messed up and Jimmy got the blame unfairly.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
There’s an interesting risk-reward analysis here, however. The risk of blowing a hamstring or otherwise injuring yourself when running the bases has to be equal to or greater than the likelihood that your opponent commits an error on a routine play.
So the potential reward of getting on base those few times is actually far outweighed by the risk of injuring oneself because you are always busting it down the line. Admittedly, it is hard to get fans to accept that. Especially in this town.
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I should clarify: even if the risk of injury isn’t equal to the risk of a botched play, the reward of getting on base those few extra times is nevertheless outweighed by that possibility of injury.
I think players generally understand this analysis—even subconsciously—and hence they don’t run equally hard on every play. Because, honestly, how many times does running all-out on routine grounders or pop-ups actually prove to be the difference for anyone other than speedsters? (And even speedsters generally have an understanding of which balls they have a chance of beating out and which they don’t.)
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
couldn’t agree more and I think it is magnified for older players, especially when speed is vital to their game, and those with an injury history of various hamstring/calf strains…..of course my father doesn’t quite understand this concept
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Wait, what?
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Steve can’t seem to grasp the blatant racism in this town and how guys like Utley and Pence are usually gritty, and hustlers who play the game the right way™ while guys like Dom Brown, Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard are lazy slackers who don’t run out pop ups….
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t hear that! I am sure it exists, but I never hear that. The only time I heard this on TV and places was when JRoll really didn’t run out that pop up and got benched.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
How come no one looks at Brown’s individual attributes or shortcomings> His swing is terrible (long and starts in a position that makes his miss zone very large), and he is uncoachable on it. He is lazy. His defense is pathetic. His baseball awareness is on par with Victorino (non-existent).
Lazy ass Ni…. player.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Get back to work toby
The bottom line is that despite all your excuses, Brown has really contributed very little. He gets worse in the field and seems to be lazy in his play; at best, he is a work in progress and you have no idea what you will ever get out of him.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Big ass Nostrils breathin all the huuuuuhWhite man's air! (Chapelle'd)
if indeed he is, why oh why has’t the coaching staff been on this guy like a second skin? he has GOT to hustle down the line on ground balls to the infield. he has GOT to go full-tilt after balls hit into the corner. he has GOT to show he is happy to be here and play his heart out. if the management indeed has been on his case and he is not responding, then either kick his tuches or dump him. or does he have a major head problem?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Dom Brown foul, strike, foul strike or soft linedrive. Can’t field, doesn’t have the intrinsics or instincts. He reminds me of a Met, way overrated and over done in the press. Trade him for Quentin or Pence if that is possible. And let’s remember the org. is finally committed to winning so those who cry poor mouth and worry about money need to go back under a rock and reminisce about the old days!
Boy’s too stooooopid to play baseball ain’t got none em instincts.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This by the way is from the comment section on ONE Philly.com article.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike1717, that’s exactly how I feel. I don’t see a ballplayer in him. Like he never player baseball before. He doesn’t have a feel and that’s something you don’t learn, especially facing ML pitching and fielding.
Still too stoopid.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Because commitment winning = more money.
/The Dark Empire mentality?
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I have no idea what these hilljacks are talking about.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The hot dog dives he keeps resorting to are scary. And given that he’s an unproven base-stealer and at the bottom of the line-up, his ability to procure walks doesn’t mean a great deal to me.
Too much of a hot dog.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Phillies and CSN did a very poor job of defending Brown. I don’t know if I’d attribute it to racism… but I don’t like how they mishandled that situation. He’s the #1 Prospect in baseball and they treat him worse than Valdez!!
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Brown looks lost….good luck with him in the playoffs…Pence has the best arm in the NL, he is an up-temo, effort guy…instant energy which this team lacks (other than Chase). Trade Brown,Singleton and Cosart…get it done.
It’s not intentional racism. I highly doubt these people are sitting there pissed off because the guy is black, but they use words only in reference to certain players. This one is pretty much the prime example.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
How is it an example of racism? The fans were told Pence is the panacea to losing games. And they were basically told to target Brown because they didn’t trust him against Lefties and put him in a rotation.
I think it is education. If the Phillies had targetted Beltran or Bourn, I’d be very curious to see if this story even develops. But since Pence is white and Brown is black, the story not only exists, but is magnified.
I am not saying that there AREN’T racist remarks against DomBrown, but that the majority of the insults come from the Phillies completely mishandling Brown and the Phillies and the Media verbally fellating Hunter Pence.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
How is it an example of racism? The fans were told Pence is the panacea to losing games. And they were basically told to target Brown because they didn’t trust him against Lefties and put him in a rotation.
You still don’t get what I’m talking about. If they were saying we need a more balanced line-up it’d be one thing.
They said Hunter Pence is gritty, and high energy while calling Brown Lazy, stupid and a hot dog…. Do you not see the walking stereotype they are building. It’s the same crap with Rollins.
Brett Favre smiles in the 4th quarter because he “has fun playing the game.” Donovan McNabb smiles in the 4th quarter because he never takes anything seriously
And you know that last one was spot on for about a decade..
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
When McNabb smiled and they were losing, they’d get on him. When McNabb smiled when they were winning, they’d say he was having fun playing the game.
When Farve smiles when they were losing, they’d call him smug or uncaring.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I’m not sure Brett Favre has ever been insulted before this past year in his life. He got away with murder and terrible play for half a decade.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You see what you want to see
You don’t want to see it, but a lot do.
Here, then, is an incomplete list of black or Latino players whose names show up in game stories, op-ed columns, and assorted player quotes when one searches Google for the phrase “lack of hustle” and the word “baseball” (takes deep breath):
Elijah Dukes, Julio Lugo, B.J. Upton, Jose Reyes, Alfonso Soriano, Robinson Cano, Jimmy Rollins, Benito Santiago, Willy Taveras, Matt Kemp, Milton Bradley, Derek Bell, Albert Belle, Fernando Martinez, Alex Rios, David Ortiz, Miguel Tejada, Edwin Encarnacion, Eddie Murray, Manny Ramirez, and Andruw Jones.
That’s a whopping twenty-one different minority players, most of recent vintage, and all were called out for an apparent “lack of hustle”. I could go on, but B.J. Upton’s name showed up so many times I began to feel bad for him.
So, how many white players showed up in the search results? One. That’s it, just one. David Wright,
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a declining number of star white baseball players.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Now you’re just in denial. Your refusal to believe this has to be outright intentional. This thread is littered with examples.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Hand-picked examples are always good at highlighting a point, which is why they aren’t very good at illustrating it on a grand scale.
But, I think I have very good point. That is being ignored. Or are there lots of white stars in baseball that aren’t pitchers?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Holliday, Utley, Chipper(yes, I know but you can’t deny it), Pedroia, Votto, PENCE!?!?!?!?!, McCann, Ellsbury, and about a dozen pitchers.
And really, why don’t pitchers count?
I’m not necessarily talking on a grand scale, but if you don’t think there is a significant number of people sharing these feelings about Brown being lazy you aren’t in touch with the average dumbass WIP caller.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Tulo, Braun, Longoria, Posey
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? That’s your response to that?
Also: What? There’s a declining amount of black players (And fans) in baseball.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Some links
Fewer black baseball players a disturbing trend amongst America’s pastime
Green behind decline of blacks in baseball
Yanks’ Curtis Granderson: Where Are Black Fans?
Dude… At least ATTEMPT to debate using facts as a basis of your arguments.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said there was an increase in black stars OR fans. Seriously, calm down.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I really hate SBNation’s formatting when it gets to this point.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
A lot of those names are Latin American, not black. I said there’s a declining number of white players, and there are. It’s still true, even if there is a declining number of black players.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
If your argument is that there’s no white players cited because of a decline in white players, then there should be no black players cited for similar reasons.
Also, show me this decline and the time period being discussed.
Since 1950? Yes, there’s significantly less % of white players.
Stop arguing without facts.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I'm done
Arguing with you is like arguing with Harry Potter — I can’t disprove something spun from fiction.
You really should try to cite something in an argument.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and while we're tossing things out there
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Charlie will tell Domonic Brown that he should hustle, but to be honest, it will make little difference.
I wonder if they are as uncoachable, lazy and arrogant as Domonic Black? I mean, um, Brownnn……
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok DomOnic Brown is a lazy player. He will NOT put in the effort.
Brown is very lazy I think ryan howard is his idol neither one runs the bases good both just trot like they hit a home run , both should be sitting on the bench and let someone that realy wants to play take there place.
Lazy. Can not run out a ground ball!’
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
These are comments on the Internet. I’m not confident in their being a fair cross-section of Phillies fans. I’m not disagreeing, necessarily, but your evidence is flawed, to say the least.
by clutchdouble on Jul 31, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I saying there is a massive lynch mob forming up to take Dom Brown away? Of course not. It’s just a mental thing that people say without realizing they are doing it in most cases. And it only happens with players who aren’t white even on the internet.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You still can’t use something as obtuse as comments on the Internet to come to a certain conclusion about something as complex as racism. Again, not saying you’re wrong, but you’re also not right. And I fail to see what the assertion would prove in the first place.
by clutchdouble on Jul 31, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Found this from our very own SB Nation...
I don’t have an opinion on this either way, but Bing came up with this as the top result (dated 5/6/2010):
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/5/6/1460794/minority-baseball-players-lack-of-hustle
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree ed
And everyone else.
At the same time, pence is very high energy,and gritty.
We shunned Dom brown here for 30 days for not hustling. He’s a very relaxed, low key
I agree that there’s is latent racism surrounding this team, but how does that change the fact the Pence shows more energy than brown?
25.8/106 CURRENTLY HOT!!!
Exactly. People were throwing back lash at me with my dislike of the trade. And as soon as “Pence made an impact” (which was providing protection, blah blah blah), I had a couple people make snarky comments about how I was wrong for hating Pence. The fact is, I like the guy and I hope he and the Phils do amazing. That being said, I dislike the trade and the logic behind it, especially if this is RAJ’s MO for his tenure as GM. Yeah, it’ll pay dividends now but it could potentially downward spiral this team into mediocrity for a good amount of time by burning through the farm so much.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
People I’ve spoken to in person can’t seem to remove the emotion from the situation. They felt we needed Pence. The fact that we got pence validated their opinion. Now those who previously dissented are unphiladelphian or something.
Just because I disagreed with the original logic does not mean I won’t root for Pence every day he’s s Phil
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I know right? I literally had someone call me out as not being a Phillies fan. And I actually got a little annoyed and proceeded to throttle him throwing out actual baseball knowledge. He thought I was stupid for thinking Bourn was arguably one of the best CFs. He used Pence’s All Star credentials as a selling point for him being an amazing player acquisition. “OMG 25+ HRs with the astros and with no one on his team!”. BABIP? Oh I don’t know what that is but he bats over .300 this year. And Bourn is just having a career year.
And apparently I was the lesser fan. Throttling him was pretty sweet.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I think that might strengthen the Pence situation because people called him out for being an all-star because you have to send one.
Of course, it strengthens Bourn’s side much stronger. I’m very interested to see how he progresses.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
You shouldn’t dislike the guy. Dislike RAJ and his possy for the over payment, but don’t hate Pence. Just make a slight jab when he fucks up is all.
Samesis
I would like a lot of hate to go towards RAJ. I know he was “groomed” for this role for over a decade or something, but the guy is pretty clueless. I don’t think he is going anywhere nor do I think our collective voices will reach the mystery owners of the Phillies (aka those two brothers who actually matter) but I’d like to turn the tide.
He needs to go.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
((I also secretly like all the praise the Phillies got for diversity by having Ruben as their GM, and then the fans on here calling him a racist.))
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Why go after Pence instead of Bourn? I thought it was established on here that Pence plays with Grit and Hustle and Plays The Game Right, and Bourn doesn’t.
So the person to point fingers at would be RAJ, as he was who misplayed this perfectly.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Bourn lefty. We got a lot of lefties needed a RHB. Pence fits us much better
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
But you would think the General Manager of one of the most successful teams in baseball would know that’s a lie.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Racist? I find (especially the AM show very demeaning of women (aside from being totally over the top and basically agitators)
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
I will say, when I used to listen to 610, I’d look for callers to compliment members of the other colour (when it was evident.)
And there are racist callers on 610. But there’s also people who look at players based on skill level and not on the colour of their skin. This is very evident during football season.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I would hope that the success of Michael Vick in this city would overcome both the racism and the criminal thing in a double shot. But apparently people can’t recall that.
There is some white haters of Vick, especially among women who care more about the dog thing than his skin, but the city has generally taken him into their arms. Andy Reid identifies with him as his own children were in jail. I feel it’s very impressive, and do not appreciate it being ignored.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Success/Winning hides a lot of true feelings. The truth comes out when they are going through adversity. When (and hopefully never) Vick starts turning the ball over more than he’s scoring with it… you’ll see the true nature of the beast!
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
If he starts messing up… people will criticize him. People HATED Kolb. And he didn’t even do that poorly.
You can’t avoid it regardless of skin colour.
((I will say, when he does poorly, racist people may come out and jump on that bandwagon.))
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Kolb was buried from the start. The hate against him is actually projection for the actual dislike of Reid and Co. Getting Mike Vick didn’t help his cause either.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Yeah, I would get annoyed with McNabb from time to time when he seemed to get needlessly stressed, but my biggest dislike is Reid. The man just does not know how to adapt or improvise. Or use a running game. Or…well, you get the idea.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And these are all very rational dislikes. And not racist.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I will rush in and say McNabb didn’t do himself any favours by not wanting to be seen as a “Running Quarterback”, and that it was a HUGELY racial thing for him.
That is racism. And it shows how it can be very harmful. He didn’t want himself to be perceived as a typical black quarterback. It’s a huge shame.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
McNabb WAS a victim more often then none.
One thing I somewhat dislike about Philly is the notion of a blue-collar, hard worker, Rocky-esque persona that has to resonate within everyone. God forbid someone is not super serious all the time!
McNabb was not a “Philly guy” in that sense and fans did not like it. If he smiled, it meant he didn’t care. It is pure idiocy but hey…. what can you do?
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
But when Brett Favre smiles it’s because he is “seizing the moment” and “has fun playing the game the right way™”
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure why you keep mentioning Favre when there’s many white quarterbacks, but I have NEVER seen any colour quaterback lauded for smiling while losing.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Because he’s the most glaring example of the nonsense and excuses people make for some and not others.
When he throws an interception it was because he was trying too hard to win. When Donovan or Vince Young do it they are stupid running QB’s who can’t read a defense.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s like a little kid out there, Jaws. I mean THIS GUY right here, he’s a compeitior Jaws, he’s really competin’ out there right now. I like this guy Jaws
/Gruden
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not necessarily in losses. But say if he had an incomplete pass. For some reason, it’s like he HAD to be angry. The whole smiling and “my bad” hand gesture was the worst thing ever and McNabb was an a-hole.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Well I don’t know why people are surprised anymore. When it was working, no one said anything. Like I said, once you start going through adversity, that’s when people get in a hissy fit. WCO is predicated with A LOT of passing. Runs = short passes. That’s Reid’s system and it has been and always been the system.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Reid used to do the screen pass. He left that and the offense suffered immensely.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
My theory on that is it was due to Westbrook’s deterioration. You need a good receiving halfback and good timing for an effective screen, and with his injuries, they either had a bad receiver (his backups), or someone who didn’t seem to have enough practice time to get the timing down.
Bob.
In addition, the guys we have on the O-Line have changed over the years (they’ve gotten older or they’ve actually different guys). The decrease in efficiency and usage of screen plays can be a direct result of that all.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Forgot about that, but yes, that’s a major factor. The offensive line is the core of the offensive, and, in my opinion, more important than any other position on offense. You can survive with slightly below average running backs or receivers or quarterbacks, but a below average offensive line weakens your entire game.
Bob.
I’m having trouble following you and not sure what point you are trying to make. Your logic escapes me.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
I am trying to say that the racist group is a vocal minority.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Yeah, I don’t know about racist so much as idiotic, but sexist is putting it mildly.
Honestly, how the hell has Cataldi not been fired by now?
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
One word, RATINGS.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I’ll buy that, but at some point he’s going to do something that’ll get WIP sued that isn’t covered by the First Amendment…
Though the fact that he hasn’t been sued yet is surprising, really.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn’t that hard to circumscribe your comments to avoid getting into the danger zone. Cataldi’s an idiot in many ways, but he’s smart enough to know how to do that. So is Eskin.
I still think it’s all an act. But it’s a tired act. Too bad he has that station by the nuts.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I agree and disagree. Cataldi certainly has IQ points (went to Columbia J school, won some acclaim for his sportswriting back in the day, etc.). And I definitely think it WAS an act at the beginning. But when you play a role long enough, eventually the mask becomes the face.
Or it was never really acting, just something he thought. And as it got positive reactions, it strengthened those ideas.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Which is disturbing all on its own, when you think about it. More so than perceived racism, because they are responding positively to explicitly sexist comments…
That concerns me. And I’m a guy.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You grasp the context of this about as well as Bill Conlin grasps advanced statistics. Please stop looking stupid.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t insult me. If you think I am missing something, tell me.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
The racist thing is about the callers into the fans and WIP who conviently mention all of our white players as guys with hustle and grit, all Asians as guys with good fundamentals who are technically sound and all black guys as athletic. It literally happens in every sport. Football, basketball, baseball, obviously in hockey there isn’t really the racial diversity to do it so they go by North American, Russian and European.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
jph89 mentioned this yesterday, but there are racial stereotypes on hockey as well. Black guys (incredibly enough) are labelled gritty, Russian players labelled as enigmas, etc.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Going back to that, I think part of the reason black players are “gritty” is because some of the more famous ones (Laraque, Emery, Brashear) have been fighters, and Grant Fuhr damn well has earned whatever superlative you give him.
Bob.
Everything’s context specific. In boxing, European boxers are stereotyped as being too soft, too mechanical, too uncreative (as well as the normal stereotypes of being too slow, not athletic, etc.). But they don’t benefit from the American white guy’s stereotype of being scrappy and what not.
White basketball players have negative stereotypes, so they do exist as well, although not to the degree that black stereotypes exist in every sport (thugs in basketball, for instance).
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Nah white basketball players have positive stereotypes too. along with the usual grit and hustle, white players are more likely to be labelled “fundementally sound” or “a coach on the floor”
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
That is true, but what I was most amused about was an article in the Vancouver Sun actually led a story with a headline Gritty Wayne Simmonds…
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
It’s reverse in hockey really. The white Russians and Europeans are soft, lazy and not physical.
Hell Ed Snider ran his team this way for the better part of 2 decades.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Snider hated Russians and many post-Soviet countries because of one of the greatest moments in Flyers history. It’s a huge shame, I really, really want an 80s Cup Win for the Flyers. Being the most decorated modern team in Philadelphia history (Eagles are arguable, and the A’s are obviously the champs) is good and all, but without a win since the 70s, it looks worse each decade.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
It also might have something to do with the fact that all those guys are from Canada and played in Canada. I think the stereotypes are somewhat different up there (not saying better or worse). In fact, black culture in Canada is itself very different, since such a large percentage of African-Canadians are actually immigrants from the West Indies.
You cannot tell me the Phillies targetted Pence for his grit and hustle and THEN tell me that this is about the 610 Fanbase and not the Phillies. That is a contradiction.
Furthermore, I feel that the fanbase fell for Hunter Pence because they were directed to by the Phillies, by RAJ. He (and then the media) have been targetting him for months. The fanbase didn’t collectively search for him and then target him.
And past that, they insult Ed Wade. Why? Because they were direct to, not because of the colour of Ed Wade’s skin. I feel that this invisible hand of influence is what guide the fanbase, not racism.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
no one says the Phillies targeted for his grit and hustle; they targeted him because they wanted a RH bat who is under team control; what’s annoying is that he is seemingly being welcomed by the fawning press and certain portions of the fanbase for his “intangible” qualities
Well, that same fanbase went crazy for the Eagles moves. And they were mostly black.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Football and Baseball have much different racial situations. It’s hard to compare how athletes are perceived in each sport
by Daniel Solomon on Jul 31, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
so?
ok, we’re not talking about personal bigotry, per se; it just so happens that it tends to be white players who are praised for their grit and hustle, and black players who are said to be lazy, etc. This does not mean that those making these assessments do not like or cheer any black players! Racism is very slippery and mostly functions beneath the surface at this point.
And very good football players
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
one of the key features of white privilege is the ability to not have to see or worry about such matters
I would imagine it comes from not knowing to look for it as much. If it’s something to look for I will.
That’s an issue with education, not an issue with being white.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
nope, it’s an issue with being white; just like being male allows men to go through life not really having to worry about rape much (which isn’t to say men are never raped), whereas it’s part of the climate of being a woman; it’s very difficult to transfer that to someone else…. I can educate myself about the fact that such a difference exists, but as a white male my privileges are that I don’t really have to on a day-to-day basis
White people aren’t taught to look for racism against black people. But if you have taken college equality courses, you’ll know that there are white people who do. They just have to be taught to look for it.
It’s an education problem. Lots of people are brought up in places where racism is encouraged.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
It’s a function of being every race tho….
There’s just more white people here.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It goes every way, although I disagree that education doesn’t nullify some of it. There are thing certain people will never understand about being a white male as well, it really comes down to not being a Dumbass. Sadly most people are.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You gotta admit that his intangibles are a plus
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s a pretty big conspiracy theory. Beltran was gone and Phillies went after the next best RHB for team. Also doubt M_ts would trade Beltran to a division rival.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
Phillies went after the next best RHB for team.
Cuddyer? Upton?
Pence wasn’t the top RHB available among outfielders. Unfortunately.
Bob.
Cuddyer wasn’t really available, I don’t think. Also, I can understand not being super-gassed about Upton at this time.
Hey, the Phillies dug Pence. No problem. The problem is that the seemed to overpay.
I could be wrong, but looking at his overall stats, he is better than the above mentioned RHB. Also RAJ and Ed Wade have trading history so that may have affected who we went after.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
GCobb on 610 right now
such a wealth of knowledge…enlightening even
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Talking about Phils victories has gotten boring?
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha something like that. I think it speaks more to the members of this blog. It’s always refreshing after trudging through the comments sections on BGN.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been over there a lot this week. The guys who run the site seem to do a real nice job but I haven’t delved into the comments much.
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh yeah, the front-page content is usually very good. And they’re pretty speedy on reports with new acquisitions, rumors, etc. But the site gets so many comments, it’s a crapshoot on whether they’re ever worth anything or just nonsense.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh don’t get me wrong. I’ve loved everything the Eagles have done so far and was intently following the rumors, but all the high-profile signings have flooded the site with fans. The comments have become less about analysis and more about celebrating/dealing with trolls.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That site frustrates me more than anything. The articles and front page content is nothing short of Grade A. The comments section, on the other hand, can be absolute hell at times.
For example, this thread today.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I think the link needs a "This will kill brain cells if you read for more than 20 seconds" warning...
I’ll take a peek over there for the stories from time to time, but I much prefer TGP.
They seem to have degenerated into calling each other grade school slurs, while we’re having worthwhile discussions on the stupidity of Philadelphia sports media, perceived racism in sports, the fallout of the Hunter Pence deal, and the debt crisis facing the United States government.
Quite the contrast, no?
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I would also hazard to guess there’s an average age difference between the two blogs. Based on the comments it would seem like many posters on BGN are in high school or younger, where its a bit of an older crowd here. It’s just a maturity issue with the topics that are discussed, how they respond to trolls, etc.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps, I haven’t spent much time on TC. Every time I read a comments section there they are usually arguing over who should bat where in the lineup haha.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wait until the next time someone here writes something critical of the Braves. TC trolls come swarming over to whine about how offended they are. Pistols at dawn and all that.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That thread is a great example. It’s not worth reading the 95% garbage to find any decent comments.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I stopped commenting there a few years ago because of all of the consequence-free bigotry in the comment threads.
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Misogyny, too. Just like going to an actual Eagles game! /s, sort of
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
The flavor of the week a few days ago was antisemitic jokes.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, throw me a link, I HAVE to see this.
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
by FuquaManuel on Jul 31, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll find it for you. Spoiler alert: Jewish fans went with “Oh these jokes are cool, I think they’re hilarious” And then it got out of hand.
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not nearly as bad as I remember. But still: http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/7/30/2306007/eagles-trade-brodrick-bunkley-to-browns-for-a-fifth-round-pick#73320322
by Eaglesadvocate on Jul 31, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If that urgent phone call was for Bunkley
I can’t imagine what the little Jew’s reaction was when he received words at Nnamdi.
And then he defends himself:
It’s only offensive
If you interpret being a jew as a bad thing.
Or little.
Is it?
Are you against jews?
Yeesh.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve don’t frequent the site that much anymore. Granted i decided to make a return this week due to FA. I tend to stick around here and Liberty Ballers more.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I just read it for the articles…like Playgirl.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I loved BGN when I was reading and commenting back in 2005-07 (under a different handle then) when it wasn’t quite as known and the discourse was a little higher than it is now.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Aug 1, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Let it never be said we’re one-trick ponies here.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re toolsy.
/ducks
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Why you have to be mad? ;-)
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally Unrelated
After the Braves grabbing Bourn the Rangers did the best job of upgrading their team IMHO. Adams and Uehara turn their main weakness into a huge strength, even if Feliz proves unreliable down the stretch or in the postseason. But how did the Cubs not make a move?
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Because Tom Hendry is a certifiable idiot, versus Ruben Amaro having a spending problem.
Pretty much every player with a big contract also has a no-trade clause. The players don’t want to waive it, and no one wants to take on the big contracts they gave out to Big Z, Soriano, et al.
How this guy still has a job, I don’t know…
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I was out in Chicago for the series last week and Hendry is HATED there. But even still, guys like Johnson, Baker, Dempster had to have value to teams. Does he really think the Cubs can contend next year? He probably won’t even be there.
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hendry bought himself a long leash when he made a couple of really good trades at the end of 2002 and during the 2003 season, essentially turning in some bad AND unpopular players (and some minor leaguers who never amount to much) into some very useful players like Mark Grudzielank, Eric Karros, Kenny Lofton, and Aramis Ramirez.
These players put the Cubs in a really good position to go deep in the 2003 playoffs, where we all know (Moises Alou especially) what happened then.
Since that season, Hendry has probably done nothing positive for the Cubs, even though they returned to the playoffs a couple times.
It was/is clear to most Cub fans that their high payroll was able to to hide a lot of Hendry’s mistakes, and it was just a matter of time before he sank the ship completely, which is what it looks like is happening right now.
From what I’m looking at (and I keep up with the Cubs they were my team before I moved to Philly 4 years ago) the Cubs organization is a huge giant mess with no real positive indicator that they can clean it up any time soon.
And yes, Jim Hendry is likely the biggest reason for that, especially since he was the guy who hired both Dusty Baker and Lou Piniella.
I hope we’re not saying the same thing about Amaro in a few years. I vaguely recall that the Cubs were also considered to have a strong farm system at one point not too long ago, though that could be wrong.
I think the Phillies are doing a good job trading non-true top talent to avoid this, but it is worrying to say the least. I think it would do the Phillies some good to take a year or two off from deadline trades to at least wipe the image of “Will do what it takes to get X player” off Amaro’s record, otherwise he is going to get hosed every year.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
The Cubs do have Tim Wilken (or at least did— I’m not sure if he’s still there), who Hendry brought in, though Wilken hasn’t quite lived up to his reputation as the head of drafting/scouting, etc.
The Cubs farm system was really bad in the late 90s, then rebounded in the early 00s, but I think Hendry has traded a number of good players, but a lot of talent has stalled or been injured.
Hendry was pretty good at selling high on prospects but he might be on a losing streak there (I think his low point might end up being what he gave up in the Garza trade, but we won’t know for several years).
What’s really alarming to me right now is that almost all of the Cubs better pitching prospects have flamed out just on the cusp on the major leagues and/or in AAA. And once a Cub pitcher has not quite caught on in the majors, he has crashed and burned upon his return to the minors and have not come close to recovering.
Many of their minor league pitching arms have regressed there as well, many of them seeming to go backwards in their development.
It’s almost as if the coaches on their farm are a bit destructive, which is what I’ve also heard about them anecdotedly.
The Cubs do have some decent home-grown players on the team— Starlin Castro, Randy Wells, Carlos Marmol, Kerry Wood, Sean Marshall, Geovany Soto, (maybe) Darwin Barney, and a couple of interesting prospects in Brett Jackson (CF), Andrew Cashner (SP/RP), and Welington Castillo ©, so they haven’t completely failed there.
In general, however, it does seem like players across-the-board have underachieved in the past 2-3 seasons and by a lot.
And yes—
I do worry about Amaro falling into the same path/rut that Hendry has made for himself, though I generally believe in the Phillies organization from top-to-bottom than the Cubs, which (from top-to-bottom) seem to be a bit lost.
There is some truth revealed in the reality that players like Halladay and Lee REALLY want to play for the Phillies.
Doug Glanville writes in his book about how his AA or AAA manager worked to undermine his career. That was in the ’90s though – not sure if the culture today is a continuation of whatever it was they had back then.
It could be that culture that Glanville experienced still exists.
My understanding (w/o having read Glanville’s book) is that the Cubs player development people have a drill sargeant way of doing things, and that the drills they are teaching are mostly detrimental to player development.
Many of the Cubs players who have had success in the minors have achieved largely because they ignored the coaching (Geovany Soto is the most recent example of this that I know).
Also—
I do remember hearing this a lot about Glanville specifically— that his clashes with coaches was ongoing. Remember Glanville was one of the Cubs best prospects in the early 90s so it was disappointing that he didn’t quite turn into a star player for the Cubs.
This scenario has played out a few times with Cubs center-field prospects, almost a successive chain: Glanville, Corey Patterson, Felix Pie (who I think Lou Piniella destroyed and then the fan base turned on him— something I fear happening to Dom Brown, though Brown is clearly a better player).
It will be interesting to see what becomes of Brett Jackson, though Jackson seems like he might be better than all of those guys (not including Brown), just based on minor league numbers.
here's one passage (from page viii)
When the final tallies were counted, my performance in the fall league solidified a spot for me on the Cubs’ Triple-A team in Des Moines, Iowa. I did not know it at the time, but it was here that I would face an unexpected test. The manager of the Iowa Cubs, Ron Clark, and I did not get along. Our differences had begun the year before, when I was in Orlando. Clark was the minor league director of instruction at the time, and after one game he called me into the office to discuss a base-running decision I had made. Clark told me that I had made the wrong choice. I disagreed, but we didn’t agree to disagree; we just fought for the last word. He would file this act of insubordination away.
In Iowa, every day was a battle. It was a year of constant badgering and a lot of tentative mistakes on the field….
He goes into it more elsewhere in the book.
Thanks for this citation.
That’s pretty interesting. As far as I know, Ron Clark no longer manages anything in the Cub organization, but it’s probably true that Clark was an organizational soldier.
All of this makes me wonder even more about Sandberg’s decision to come to the Phillies, though it’s probably mostly because the Cubs passed him over for Quade.
here's one more (pp. 81-82)
After the game, I was called into manager Ron Clark’s office. He and I weren’t always on the best of terms, so I usually rued these meetings. But when I saw two of my teammates, Mike Hubbard and Terry Shumpert, were also in Clark’s office, I sensed that the big call-up was about to happen.
“Congratulations, you earned it,” Clark said to Mike. He told Terry, “You’ve been there before; you know what to do.” Then he turned to me: “If you make the same mistakes up there as you did down here, you will be back here.”
How much influence did Piniella have on personnel decisions? For instance, I was under the impression that Scott Eyre was placed on waivers in 2008 because Lou Piniella did not like him, which of course was a Very Serious Problem.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this is true.
Lou had a lot of players in his doghouse, some of which where there for reasons I couldn’t understand.
Scott Eyre was definitely one of them. The Cubs lost a couple of decent players because Lou didn’t like them, Mike Wuertz also comes to mind. And while Wuertz didn’t set the world on fire, he was an above-average pitcher that Lou just didn’t like for some reason.
So I don’t know if Lou directly had Hendry’s ear, but Hendry must at least have known that there were some players that Lou just was going to have wasting away on the bench for no apparent good reason.
The weird thing is..
How many guys WANT to stay with the Cubs and refuse to waive their NTC to do so. Losing team going nowhere…and they want to stay! Kinda bizarre.
Chicago is a great city. I can understand wanting to live there.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jul 31, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Apologies for an on-topic comment (!), but watching Raul blast a couple was great today. Would love if he proves Joe C wrong for 10-15 more ABs (apologies, Joe).
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
How dare you!
Haha yeah maybe he’ll go on a Howard-like second half tear
by Daniel Solomon on Jul 31, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Raul was definitely putting the team on his back. I would be a happy borg if he continued to do so for the rest of the season and hopefully beyond
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of cybernetic upgrades, but the Domonator works just fine, too :o)
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Said this yesterday. Borg not very agile (not good at fielding and running bases) but can hit a baseball 3 parking lots away. You do not want Borg baseball. :-)
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
When are we going to talk about Vulcans who play baseball? Or Worf?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYVSkOh3ZBM
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
The useless expenditure of time trying to hit a leather ball with a wooden bat is not logical, Doctor.
Bob.
Apparently not enough – the last World Series was played in 2042, and there hasn’t been professional baseball since (ref: DS9, “If Wishes Were Horses”)
Bob.
Or, see this:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Take_Me_Out_to_the_Holosuite_%28episode%29
For a team of Vulcan players.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
They do not love, but appreciate the mathematical perfection of saber-metrics
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
by Borg_Queen on Jul 31, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, Ryan Howard 2.0. Maybe upgrade him? It’d be fun to see him launch some balls into Frankford…
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Was Dom Brown ever projected to be a left fielder?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
3 games in left field in Rookie ball, 1 game at Lakewood, 1 game at Clearwater, and 4 games at Lehigh. 9 games over 5 years.
Bob.
Yeah, and that little time in LF essentially means that no, he doesn’t really have experience at it. By comparison, Singleton has 30 games in LF this year.
Bob.
Next year Dom if left will be an upgrade, although I do like Raul. He is a classy guy but definitely slow and not a great arm.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
I kinda hope raul will take a discount and be a bat off the bench. Like Sweeny was for us last year.
Samesis
Don’t have a problem with that but Raul as much as I love the guy is so streaky. Not sure that makes a good bat off the bench.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
I hope Raul wins 2011 World Series MVP and retires on the highest note that anyone’s ever retired on.
Agreed
The temptation of his veteran presence on the bench would be too strong for Charlie to resist.
If that happened...
Only Raul dropping dead as he rounds the bases off the game-winning home run in game 7 could stop Charlie in 2012.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Jamie Moyer's retirement was...
Oh wait, nevermind.
Though he DID come very close to a perfect game last year.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Damn Troy Glaus…
I think he gave up a walk or two in that, too, though.
Cole also came close to a no-no; would have gotten it if not for Taser Boy™ running onto the field…honestly, why he wasn’t further tased for ruining that, I never understood.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Moyer face the minimum number of batters? I kind of feel like he did, but my recollection is hazy.
Cole did not flirt with a no-no the night Taser Boy visited (May 4, 2010)- he was, however, three outs from a CGSO- he scattered six hits and two walks through the first eight innings before surrendering back to back doubles to start the ninth and being replaced by Brad Lidge.
Cole’s near no hitter against the Cardinals happened on July 22,2010 at St. Louis, when he was again opposed by Adam Wainright in an extra inning affair- Cole was electric that day, pitching eight innings and facing one over the minimum while only allowing one hit and one walk. That game was the turning point game last year for the Phillies, coming at the end of a 2-6 road trip following the All-Star break and starting an eight game winning streak that took them from seven games back in the division to two and a half and turned the Phillies from sellers to buyers.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
Between Dr. Ibanez and Mr. Raul, I’ll take Raaauuul for as long as he’s here
by FanSince1993 on Jul 31, 2011 10:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Explicably gunned down.
Classic. Tip of the hat to you, sir.
To James From Philly
Elijah Dukes, – black
B.J. Upton, – black
Jimmy Rollins, – black
Matt Kemp, – black
Milton Bradley, – black
Derek Bell, – black
Albert Belle, – black
Eddie Murray, – black
Andruw Jones – black
Julio Lugo, – domincan
Jose Reyes, – domincan
Alfonso Soriano, – dominican
Robinson Cano, – dominican
Willy Taveras, – dominican
Fernando Martinez, – dominican
David Ortiz, – dominican
Miguel Tejada, – dominican
Edwin Encarnacion, – dominican
Manny Ramirez, – dominincan
Benito Santiago, – puerto rico
Alex Rios, – puerto rican
9 Black, 12 Latin
This is the list provided. It is not a list of primarily black players.
MOVING ON, I feel like I need to go to each starting lineup of position players minus pitcher and get racial numbers. I am confident that, after Asian, white would be the smallest number. That gives us a much smaller sample size. I feel that is important when discussing this.
Many white kids in high school play baseball. There aren’t many white kids who make it to the big leagues. You have to assume that they don’t make it for very good reasons.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
You argued that it's because whites are in decline
And I proved to you that — with facts and actual statistics — that blacks and latinos are in decline in baseball.
Your argument is flawed. White players are not “Gritty” because of declining numbers. Black and hispanic players do not lack “hustle” because there’s more to pick on.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I just said that there is a smaller percentage of white’s in baseball to find white’s to criticize as easily. You continue to pretend that that is irrelevant to the situation. I know what you are saying, but you ignore my points to repeat the same thing.
And if blacks and latinos are on the decline, who is picking up that slack? There isn’t a large number of Asians in MLB yet, and I think we’ve pretty much covered the bases for available races, unless there’s a Native American group out there.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I'm not ignoring your points
You are just a moving target.
When one argument of yours fails, you spin a new one to fit your conclusion.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's have some actual numbers
Study: MLB gets ‘A’ for racial hiring
Among major leaguers, though, the number of black players dropped from 10.2 percent to 9 percent last season.
So your argument is that there’s less than 9% of white players in baseball? Is that what you are trying to get me to believe?
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I want the numbers on non-pitchers, which is what this argument is about. There is a huge, disproportionate number of white pitchers in baseball for reasons I cannot grasp.
And I know you won’t go “You’re right, there are”, you will jump all over me. So I’m leaving. You don’t understand the argument.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
In an argument
One side presents their point of view with their facts and describes how they come to that conclusion, while another makes a rebuttal.
Let’s play your game though:
Let’s pretend there are 0 black pitchers in baseball. Let’s also pretend every pitcher in baseball is white. How many pitchers are in baseball?
I bet you if you:
(amount of whites in baseball) – (every pitcher in baseball) / (amount of MLB players) > 9%
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, just because it's funny
The 2007 baseball season got underway recently and this year, 60 years after Jackie Robinson broke major league baseball’s color barrier, there are fewer African Americans on the playing field than two decades ago. Last year, only 8.4 percent of major league players were black, compared to 19 percent in 1995, according to the University of Central Florida’s Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sports. Meanwhile, the percentage of Latino players has increased to 29.4 percent, Asians are 2.4 percent and whites are 59.5 percent.
Basically, you believe that 50.6% of major league baseball players are pitchers.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, it wasn’t far upthread that it was stated ‘All those Dominican guys are black, dude’. So it isn’t particularly clear what the real percentage of blacks is when you add in black latinos. Though perhaps we’d also have to add white latinos to the whites. Probably most latinos, but not all, are some mixture of white/Native american/black. Though in this country half-black, half-white is generally considered black; see Barack Obama.
And you throw out 50.6% like it’s an absurdly high number, but generally 11-12 out of 25 roster spots are pitchers which would seem to work out to around 46%.
I’m confused as to exactly what it is that you’re trying to argue, to be honest. Are you asking him for statistics to disprove your assertion of subconscious racial bias in the city of Philadelphia? You know such statistics don’t exist. And all of the links that you’ve provided help you to “hypothesize”, not “conclude”.
by clutchdouble on Jul 31, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Domonic in left field
Went to LV today. Dom played well, made a spectacular diving catch, played a ball off the wall neatly, hit the cutoff when there was no chance of getting the guy at the plate, etc.. But it was a pathetic sight. It was “Halloween Night” (???) and all the IronPigs were wearing skeleton uniforms. Beyond demeaning. I thought I was at the Riversharks. Triple A should be above that shit. (I have a picture but can’t figure out how to attach it.)
I felt like I thought it hit me - Chase Utley
Countdown is on to watching my hubby throw out the first pitch Wed night at Reading. /rubs hands toghether, evil laughter
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
"Choocing Owl"?
I can only hope that’s as glorious as Gnome Howard.
by JamesFromPhilly on Jul 31, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s actually a Chooch bobblehead with an owl next to him that says “Chooch.” It’s sponsored by the Audobon Society or some such.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm, maybe I’ll try to make it to this since I’m here in PA for the week. It also might be fun to see Bryce Harper.
Get there early. I’m sure they’ll go fast.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
No, Tuxedo Night featured Kendrick pitching. I don’t know anything could possibly be worse than that…
As to AAA doing that, I disagree somewhat. It’s still the minors, though I wouldn’t be adverse to toning that sort of thing down.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Watching Quick Pitch tonight...
I heard two phrases that I never thought I would hear in the same sentence- “Greg Dobbs” and “incredible season”… How many tines was he DFA’ed last year?
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Jul 31, 2011 11:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Before I go
I want to make sure I am not branded a racist from tonight’s argument. So remember that y’all!!
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Nah, I don’t think you are at all. From an outsider’s viewpoint, you’re all just discussing whether there is racism at work or whether it’s just poor selection of terms to describe players.
On the issue itself, I’m undecided.
by Airedale260 on Jul 31, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
No one should ever make sweeping character assumptions about someone based on an argument made over the Internet. I still reserve the right to make generalizations about people who comment on Bleacher Report or call into WIP, however.
by ThinMountainAir on Jul 31, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha. One more thing: Matt Gelb tweeted today that he was getting “emails about Dom Brown that are taking a turn for the worse.” And that “racism isn’t cool, people.” He didn’t elaborate, but that sounds like he’s seeing an issue with the fans prejudices too.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I really, really wish the Phillies and the media did a better job protecting him. He’s a true talent that this city may not see for a long time, and they act like he’s a Rule 5 pick! The way they treated him, it’s not a surprise people think he’s crap.
But if they looked at his MLB stats, they’d see such a different story. They are very impressive, especially considering his age and his platoon slotting. And I’m shocked they didn’t start him against left handers, his sample size is small but he has done extremely well!
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
He sent me a DM (I know, I’m special) with the offending email. It was REALLY bad.
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
I hate to stoke the fire on this racism debate, but I think I finally figured it out. We attach phrases like “gritty” and “hustle” almost exclusively to white players. And I’ve been sitting, wondering why that is. There’s always been a perception in sports that African-American players are “natural” athletes. For them, running and jumping and sliding and what have you allegedly comes naturally. If one believes that’s true (or even subconsciously believes it), then the only way to explain how white players can keep up is to attach some kind of intangible quality to it. Oh, African-American baseball players can glide from base to base, but white baseball players have to hustle. It’s a perception that white players somehow have to work harder to get the same results, and thus possess some intangible quality that differentiates them – such as grittiness or hustle.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
Im pretty sure I can run the bases’ as fast as Howard, probably faster then Panda or Prince.
Samesis
Well, in the case of those aforementioned players, I think it’s more a case of fat-ism instead of racism. :P
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Like, white men can’t dance?
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, though. I do think you’re on to something.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Jul 31, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
In general, though, I think all of this is just vestigial racism which is getting diluted with every passing generation. We’re the product of our parents, who are the products of theirs, and so on. In a few decades, I think most of these issues will resolve themselves.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Jul 31, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope so. The two little girls who I took to the RPhils game last week (I wrote a FanPost that made people cry) are black. We got looks.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Cause my husband and I are white.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Hah! Cole Hamels? No! I’m married to a real man, not some SoCal baby.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I love every opportunity to post this picture.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Those are the Hamels children? I thought they were younger than that. How many kids do they have?
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope, they are rent-a-kids.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Right, but didn’t they not have kids when this ad came out?
by ThinMountainAir on Aug 1, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
And one biological boy and another on the way, yes?
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Their son, Caleb is their biological child- his wife went into labor while he was pitching in the 2009 NLDS against Colorado.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
I thought I remembered that. And she’s pregnant again. But they also adopted?
/cares too much about Hamels personal life
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I am pretty sure they only have the one, although they have talked about wanting to adopt.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
Gotcha.
Jen Utley is also pregnant. That’s going to be a gorgeous child.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously. That kid has, like, a 0.000001% chance of being unattractive.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay. That’s obviously the Hamels dog, though.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Elvis has left the building!
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
But his spirit lives on. It should be enough to overpower any current dog.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
If you type in the words “embarrassing photos of” in google search, Cole Hamels is the 4th option.
Samesis
Really? For me “embarrassing photos” gets me Cole Hamels on the very first entry.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Cole Hamels’ WTF moments just make him so much more endearing to me for some reason.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh. When I do it it’s 10th, behind such luminaries as Selena Gomez, Pippa Middleton and Anthony Weiner.
by ThinMountainAir on Aug 1, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know, so this is my response:
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah… Cole is an example of the whiteest dude ever getting lot of shit for no reason.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a lot of WIPers don’t like him because he has long hair and a high-pitched voice.
by ThinMountainAir on Aug 1, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
And he isn’t a wuss.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
He’s also pretty. Ugly dudes from Philly are threatened because he’s more talented than they are, handsome AND makes more money.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
And has a smokin’ hot wife, despite still sound prepubescent. (Not judging him for that; just stating a fact.)
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
sounding*
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah my dad often makes fun of Cole’s voice. But do most people realize that he recovered from what many thought was a career ending injury with his Grit ™. I would think this would overwhelm the voice thing… I really really hope we re-sign cole… love the man.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
My favorite Cole Hamels’ voice moment had to be the game in Marlins Stadium where the TV microphones picked up his cursing. He sounds so adorable cursing in that helium voice of his.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
God bless The Fightins.
http://www.thefightins.com/chris/cole-hamels-says-the-eff-and-ess-word/
by ThinMountainAir on Aug 1, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Now I’m all angry listening to the d-bag Marlins announcers.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
“All he has to do is turn around to his second baseman, Chase Utley, who’s been hit by 15 pitches this year.”
HARDY HAR HAR.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
My ex-gf/still gf/I-don’t-know’s family adopted 2 african american children (her family is caucasian). We were talking about it one time and she fears for her little brothers and the looks and prejudice they will get growing up. And even now, they’ve received somewhat racist comments and stuff amongst family friends of all people. (The family lives in Minnesota)
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I think it’s more complicated than that. I don’t think racism can be solved because there’s not a real clear definition of the term. For example, if a young kid who happens to be black wants a Jimmy Rollins jersey because he identifies with him, is that racial bias? Is it wrong for a white kid to do the same thing?
by clutchdouble on Aug 1, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I get what you’re saying, but at the same time, blacks were considered less than human 300 years ago. For perception of them to come as far as it has, it leads me to believe that someday equality will actually be achieved. Now, that may be some distant future, and it’s probably just my rare optimism speaking, but…
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
There will always be an outgroup though that is prejudiced against. It may not be blacks… but we will always find an enemy.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
We must eradicate the Mutants!
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Yeah. Good luck with that. They can read your mind and fly and shoot lasers out of there eyes.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Professor X was hot when he was young, too. I doubt I could resist.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
You know that Brian Singer (the director of the first 2 X-men movies) is a gay dude and he made those movies as kind of a gay allegory… I thought that was cool.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to have to rewatch them with that frame. Though that makes that one’s power where you touch her and she absorbs you kind of frightening (KIDDING)
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Well, remember that the X-Men were created in the ’60’s. They were originally a civil rights allegory. Today’s youth can relate more to the treatment of homosexuals, though.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Aliens, once we start interstellar travel.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing wrong with optimism (though I think it’s been less than 300 years), but the fact is that racism is a naturally occurring thing phenomenon. If PK Suppan single-handedly inspires 500 more black kids to pick up and try hockey because he’s black, isn’t that a potentially good thing? Racism is a much more complex subject than it’s often made out to be, but it’s not always addressed that way. I just don’t see the benefit in trying to “prove” it’s existence. It exists, but in many, varying forms.
by clutchdouble on Aug 1, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know that it’s racism, per say. I just think people are predisposed to judge people. I mean, racism is the most intense example, but similar strains can be found in the treatment of homosexuals and even the mentally/physically disabled. Like Cole_Hamels_Can said, we’ll always find something to prejudice by; I just don’t think it’ll always be race.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah my former advisor has a cool paper on this… It’s called Can Race Be Erased. He did some work suggesting we can easily ignore race if we have something else to track. Race isn’t something we track right away… it’s just something that is a marker of what Coalition we belong to.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve always liked the bumper sticker “End discrimation: Hate Everybody”.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
The Sgt. Hartman way!
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Aug 1, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think as people who are not American come here, the people who grew up in an American culture will feel closer together.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
That’s sort of my point, we all judge. I just think it’s a bit misguided to assume racism can be solved. We celebrate our differences in cultures as a diverse city and nation, but along with cultural differences come cultural misunderstandings in all shapes and forms. It’s both good and bad. It just is.
by clutchdouble on Aug 1, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way, isn’t it absolutely incredible how diverse baseball is compared to the other three main American sports?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I think it may be racial bias to a point- we tend to gravitate to people who look like us. I see it even in myself- when I was in high school, I really did not see a ton of career choices in my world- I did not know many women who had attended college, and the ones who had were pretty much teachers, nurses, secretaries, etc. Most of the women in our neighborhood only worked part time if at all after their kids were born. This had an effect on the dreams that I had for myself- I was going to go to college for education and teach preschool or elementary school.I was bright, and a number of my teachers, parents, etc. had suggested I go to law school and become an attorney, but I couldn’t see myself doing it. In my senior year I did mock trial, and one of the advisors to our team was a female attorney- seeing a lawyer who was a woman like me helped to change my views about what I could do- I identified with her, and having worked with her, it was easier for me to see myself becoming a successful attorney- I changed majors and started a pre-law track a year and a half into my college career.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
I think the whole “people like us” think can be really fallable too. I’m an Irish Catholic and I got caught up in the whole Micky Ward boxing craze for really no reason other then he was a guy who seemed to be the epitome of every Irish Catholic stereotype. Thinking back on it now I just wonder how many deserving boxers werent given a shot because Ward was such a huge draw for a couple years.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
They also can’t jump without Hustle
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jul 31, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to say in my one debate that the white position players who make it to the MLB have to have tried really hard to get past the black and latino ones and get noticed, but I thought that sounded too racist.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Exactly
You see the same thing in football. Yes I’m a BGN guy but bear with me. Every White WR who can catch is immediately compared to Wes Welker. How do you explain why ESPN was all over Danny Woodhead the way they were. How many scatback/slot recievers are in this league hanging on by a thread. ALOT. But because Woodhead is white he gets touted as the little engine who could. It is because culturally we are predisposed to believe that blacks are more athletic than white people. I believe there was a broadcaster back in the 80s that was fired for making the comment on air that Blacks were better athletes than Whites because of the generations of slavery had created a certain level of natural selection. Which is just so laughably incorrect.
Sorry to come late to this, but want to say this is an excellent insight, Senor O, and this whole racism discussion has been well rec’d here. White players “hustle” and have “grit” much like black players are “articulate.” God forbid a black person should mumble (cough/Sarge/cough). Over the weekend, Hunter Pence called the Phillies “scrappy” which I thought was odd. Overachieving teams ike the Pirates are scrappy. However, on an individual basis, either a black player or a white player could be scrappy. He just has to be small.
I felt like I thought it hit me - Chase Utley
Daniel Carcillo <- What is this doing here?!
When the Flyers traded huge fan favourite Scottie Upshall for Daniel Carcillo (mostly for cap reasons, and somewhat for conspiracy theory reasos), the town (okay the Flyers portion) was ready to go berserk. Upshall was a huge and cheap talent for the Flyers who was being misused and now being traded straight up for someone who was clearly not as good. On that press conference, Holmgren was sitting there looking pretty pissed off. First question was asked, he said something along the lines of “Carcillo is a good player, he’s here to help our team” and stopped talking on the issue. And with that, a lot of the controversy stopped.
The Phillies needed to do something like that with Brown. They completely mishandled Brown’s assimilation into the city. Not only did they cut his playing time, they put him out to the fans without any warning or any approval. Even in Spring Training!! Manuel said along the lines that it’s anyone’s game, or that “It’s Brown’s to lose”.
I know a lot of people on the Phillies feel he’s not ready, but they should have protected him. A lot more than they did. It’s really pathetic. Hopefully next year he is given more of a confident line from the team and the media from Spring Training on.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Juan Samuel
Bench Samuel..Having Howard try for 3rd on obvious infield hit by Pence almost cost Phils the game (cost Pence a hit) This is the 3rd or 4th bad move by him in the past week! This guy’s TRIPPIN" !!!
That’s not on Sammy. That’s a judgment call on Howard, and one he got wrong.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
But I’m not defending Sammy on the whole. He’s a terrible 3B coach, no doubt. Just credit where credit is due.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Makes me wonder why they don’t switch Samuel and Perlozzo. Sammy certainly stole a base or two in his day, and Perlozzo wasn’t too bad coaching 3rd.
by ThinMountainAir on Aug 1, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Perlozzo was ultra-cautious and conservative. I think that’s appropriate for a 3B coach but some people didn’t like it.
You know who was a great 3B coach? Larry Bowa. Such a terrible manager though. And you can never bring him back to Philadelphia because of all the baggage he now has here.
I think it’s been long enough. Maybe when J-Roll leaves you can bring him back.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I think like anything else it’s a balance. What kills me is that Samuel seems to decide before the game whether he’s going to be agressive or cautious then either holds people up even when they could walk home or send them when the ball is in the infield. I’m exaggerating but it’s odd how many times this year someone’s been left at third in one situation then sent to get gunned down in another.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Peter Principle strikes again!
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Aug 1, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
well, this thread certainly blew up in the last few hours…were there a higher percentage of comments from blacks, whites, or dominicans?
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Well most people here have Grit ™…. so there’s your answer.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
To be honest
I’m quite surprised there hasn’t been a True Grit quote, joke or reference made in the past two days. I sort of expected a terrible photoshop of Pence with an eyepatch, at least.
by JamesFromPhilly on Aug 1, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Me too… I can’t do photoshop though unfortunately.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
not over the top enough for my liking…maybe Captain America
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
...I might just take on this challenge.
This poster has so much PS fodder.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It can't just be Pence
You have to include those under his protection.
by JamesFromPhilly on Aug 1, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, Hamels is Peggy Carter. Obviously. Colonel Tommy Lee Jones would probably be RAJ. I’m thinking Dum Dum Doogan could be Cholly…
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Does Hamels have to be Peggy Carter… can’t that be CU
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Ed Wade as Red Skull.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Bottom Line
F this racism nonsense. Pence is better at baseball than Brown. He is right handed. And he plays the outfield and is under team control for two more years. We lose Raul after this season. Now we don’t have to sweat a replacement. If Brown keeps his wits about him he will start next year. What about this simple equation is so hard to swallow? Cosart and Singleton may never amount to a damned thing. We have two, count ’em 2, championships and over 10,000 losses. Winning one is a big deal!
Haha! This guy has the trademark TGP sense of humor down perfectly!
…unless he’s being serious.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 1, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Since we're discussing race
I’m going to say the person I feel is responsible for a major shift in race relations. On the surface, one would say it’s Martin Luther King Jr. But that’s not it. Then, you might say it’s Michael Jackson, an artist who truly united the nation under his music. It didn’t matter if you were black or white (cough), you liked him. Certainly, that would have to be the answer, right? You’re closer, but you’re still wrong. The answer…
is Steve Urkel.
I strongly feel that television played a huge role in race relations. And to have a generation of young kids growing up and watching TGIF, those shows were, well, “normal”. And the one thing (I think) that Family Matters had that none of the shows before it had was a true scientific nerdy geek. (And Carl Winslow). He was someone that a large group of kids could identify as a nerd. But he was black. If you identified with him or identified him with a group, you were both identifying him much more as a nerd who was black than a black guy who was a nerd.
That show itself I think had a big affect on a generation of kids growing up to not see a black family as anything but normal. I doubt it will ever get any of that credit anywhere else, so I am putting forth my thesis here.
And I think this board could do with some Steve Urkelness.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTeOcVelYi0
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
I remember this being pretty emotional when I was younger:
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking Save By The Bell was good too. I never thought anything of the fact that Screech was going after a black girl in the show… it just never occurred to me when I was younger. They didn’t end up together obviously… but that was because he was a geek not because he was white.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
It would have been more progressive if a character (not Screech) actually HAD gotten together with Lisa. But it was a step in the right direction, I guess.
Good point. Funny story, I never knew what race AC Slater was growing up.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
And I guess not knowing someone’s race is a lot better for a racial issue than knowing.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
No, actually it’s a lot worse.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
How is it worse? If, in someone’s eyes someone lacks a race… how is that bad? Unless they have some kind of, anti-no race attitude.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Short answer: Because then one is less apt to acknoweledging cultural differences and more apt privilege denial.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
But there aren’t any cultural differences with AC Slater. He was a popular kid, a star athlete, a ladies man. In fact, reading on Wikipedia, it turns out he was written as a Caucasian, only proving my point.
He’s not a token racial character, he’s someone who stands on his own apart from his race. Like Steve Urkel. And that is MUCH more important than knowing the struggle of his people or something in defining his character. Much like how nothing about Othello is regarded to his race. He stands alone as a human being, black or white.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
You realize AC Slater is a fictional character, at an imaginary high school, correct?
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
How does that relate? To Kill A Mockingbird didn’t even have a visual representation to be a landmark in race relations.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Disney really led the charge
Just check out this clip from Dumbo. Jive-talkin’ blackbirds singin’ and dancin’ must have done wonders for race relations…and the head bird happens to be named Jim Crow…oh, that Disney.
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Hey
There’s nothing racist about the Braves.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
that must be FSU…too many people there
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
No it’s from when they were winning so that fans actually showed up. But this particular clip was not a Braves game… it was a Lynching… if only that young boy had more Hustle ™…. too far?
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah…a bit much
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Everyones a bit racist. I for one, hate toons, cause one killed my brother.
AND HE!
TALKED!
LIKE! THIS!
Samesis
That film was really important for Human and toon relations… the
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Watch this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai0dYPkE2bQ
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Not enough drunk girls to be an FSU game.
Trade me while I still have value
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 1, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
they want to replace Chip Caray with Uncle Remus
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
Or Uncle Ruckus… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jxtHzMOe1w&feature=related
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
once again, a bit much
"Have you seen this Perez guy pitch? I'm a pacifist, but I've never seen anything so violent look so beautiful."
it’s worth noting that that clip is from the Boondocks, a comic written by Aaron McGruder, a black man, as a satire of these racist views.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Aug 1, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Holy crap. My husband and I just watched Song of the South the other day. We were curious to see just how bad it was. It was pretty bad. Happy slaves and all that. Not sure where my husband downloaded it from, but I know it was never sold in the U. S.
Why you have to be mad? He's a good guy! Let's go eat!
by LeepinLizardz on Aug 1, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on The Good Phight
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Next Game
Philadelphia Phillies
@
St. Louis Cardinals
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 7:15 PM EDT
Busch Stadium
Clear. Winds blowing out to left field at 5-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 95.
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
- Giancarlo Stanton misses cutoff man, and Logan Morrison is thankful he did (Video)
