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Phillies Prospect Roundup: Deadline Day 2011

The MLB Draft process is vastly unlike its counterparts in the other four major sports, and today serves as yet another example of why. While draftees in, say, the NFL haggle over bonuses, we all know they're going to sign eventually -- but with baseball, whether or not a draftee winds up signing is very much an open question. The focus of the prospecting world will be on Gerrit Cole, Anthony Rendon and the like, to see whether they sign and how much of a bonus they get if they do, but every team is working feverishly to get as many draftees signed as possible.

If you're familiar at all with the draft, then you know that the commissioner's office promulgates a recommended slotting system for all draft picks, and prefers teams to hold off on announcing above slot deals until the days leading up to the deadline. This creates a mad rush of signing news in mid-August, as any of you who frequent Baseball America or MLB Trade Rumors have probably seen.

With respect to the Phillies, it remains to be seen how active of a deadline day we are likely to see. Phuture Phillies has been keeping tabs on this in great detail over the course of the summer, so if you're looking to play a little catch up, I'd highly recommend the resources he's put together over there. By way of summary, here are the Cliffs Notes:

  • Sandwich round pick (39th overall) Larry Greene Jr. and 2nd round shortstop Roman Quinn are likely to sign, and quite frankly, it's surprising it's taken them this long.
  • 6th rounder Zach Wright, a junior catcher from East Carolina, will not be signing.
  • The Phillies have kept an open dialogue with a number of other prep and juco products, including 5th rounder Mitch Walding (an athletic shortstop), 15th rounder Ryan Garvey (Steve's son, and a well regarded hitter), 17th rounder Jesen Dygestile-Therrien (a juco Canadian right hander), and 27th rounder Brandon Shull (a southpaw from Iowa). There's been no real indication how much money the organization has to spend, so these guys could just be backup plans in case something falls through with Greene or Quinn, or the budget could be big enough to sign a bunch of the later round guys.

Once the draft class has taken shape, we'll actually be able to take stock of how the Phillies did, meaning that I can write my long overdue draft wrap up. So be sure to look for that in the next few days.  In the meantime, just like last year, we'll be honoring this year's signing deadline day by taking a look at some bonus babies from years past. Check below the jump for updates on a number of draftees from 2006 through this year.

Star-divide

Domonic Brown, OF-L, Lehigh Valley: 20th round, 2006, $200K bonus. As I said a few weeks back, no, he's technically not a prospect any longer, but I'll make an exception to keep tabs on him while he's finishing up what should presumably be the final bit of his minor league apprenticeship. Dom has hit his first real rough stretch in Lehigh Valley, going just 5-for-34 his last 10 games, but he's still sitting at .277/.417/.422 with excellent plate discipline (17.6% BB, 17.6% K). I'm repeating myself here, but he'll be back when the Triple-A season is over, then he's slated to be the Opening Day left fielder in 2012, and I don't see anything to be concerned about.

D'Arby Myers, OF-R, Clearwater: 4th round, 2006, $250K bonus. Myers' juxtaposition with Brown is intentional, because it shows what a real crapshoot drafting and player development can be. Toolsy outfielders from the same draft, Myers hit .313/.353/.430 in a 31-game debut campaign with the GCL Phillies (compared to Brown's .214/.292/.265 that same year), but the southern California product has failed to put it together since then, amassing just a .252/.297/.342 line over six pro campaigns. Hey, there's a reason that lottery ticket analogies are thrown around a lot with respect to high school athletes.

Brody Colvin, RHP, Clearwater: 7th round, 2009, $900K bonus. The recipient of the largest bonus on this list, Colvin has followed up his excellent 2010 campaign with a bit of a dud in 2011, and while he managed to throw a quality start on Saturday (6.0 IP, 8 H, 3 ER, 1 HR, 1 BB, 3 K), that performance came after allowing 14 runs over his previous 14 innings, so he hasn't exactly turned the corner yet. With that said, if Colvin comes out of 2011 without any lingering physical issues or any diminution in stuff, the organization will still be content with the bonus money it spent on Colvin, as he still has the ability to put it together to be an excellent major league starter.

Jonathan Pettibone, RHP, Clearwater: 3rd round, 2008, $500K bonus. Though Pettibone entered 2011 overshadowed by his rotation mates (Colvin, Jarred Cosart, and Trevor May), he's put together a year that's making people sit up and take notice. The projectable right hander has been stingy with the free pass (2.1 BB/9), he's limited the home runs (0.26 HR/9), and he's kept lefties at bay (54:16 K:BB versus left-handed hitters, just 1 HR). The only thing that's missing statistically is a strikeout rate that would move Pettibone up prospect lists -- at just 6.5 K/9, and without extreme ground ball tendencies (43% GB), he'll need to be very fine with his command if the same approach is going to work all the way up the ladder.

Jiwan James, OF-S, Clearwater: 22nd round, 2007, $150K bonus. James' July hot streak has drawn to a close, and while it gave a nice bump to his overall season numbers (which now sit at .271/.330/.372, with 22 stolen bases in 35 attempts), we're still left with a 2011 season in which the athletically gifted outfielder didn't take the leap forward that we might have been hoping for. 2012 is shaping up as a make-or-break season for the Florida high school product: he'll be 23 and assigned to Double-A, and at the risk of setting our sights too high, Shane Victorino will be in the final year of his contract.

Tyler Greene, SS-R, GCL Phillies: 11th round, 2011, $375K bonus. Greene is, as of this writing, the most exciting name that the Phillies have signed from their 2011 draft crop, as an athletic shortstop with good tools across the board. He has just 8 hits in his first 33 pro at bats, with 4 walks to 14 strikeouts, but half of his hits have been doubles, and he's made just one error so far. The average MLB shortstop slugs .378 these days, so a legitimate shortstop prospect who projects to have above-average power is a really nice commodity to have on hand. Greene is a long way away, but represents great value as an 11th round pick signing for under $400,000.

Colby Shreve, RHP, Clearwater: 6th round, 2008, $400K bonus. Shreve was projected to be a borderline 1st round pick before blowing out his elbow in junior college (necessitating Tommy John surgery), but the Phillies snapped him up in the 6th round, paid him an above slot bonus, and banked on him regaining the nasty fastball/slider combination that made him such a nice draft prospect in the first place. Unfortunately, it just hasn't worked out, as Shreve's stuff hasn't returned to pre-TJ levels, and even a move to the bullpen this year has yielded only decent results (8.1 K/9, 3.4 BB/9, 0.50 HR/9, 49% GB, 4.20 FIP for Lakewood before his recent promotion). Still, it seemed like a good gamble at the time for the Phillies, so if we're valuing process over result, no harm, no foul.

Brian Pointer, OF-L, GCL Phillies: 28th round, 2010, $350K bonus. The Nevada high school product has been the most exciting offensive prospect on the GCL Phillies this year, showing an ability to hit for power (.197 ISO, with 17 of his 37 hits going for extra bases), take a walk (9.7% BB), steal bases efficiently (7 without being caught), and even help out in the field (3 assists and 0 errors, and he has made center field his own recently). He's likely to be somewhere in the middle of the offseason Top 30, and looks more than ready for a full season assignment for 2012.

Jonathan Musser, RHP, GCL Phillies: 21st round, 2010, $300K bonus. It's been a bit of a rough pro debut for the lanky right hander, as Musser has allowed 69 baserunners in 38.1 innings and has more walks (22) than strikeouts (20) at this juncture. That said, the Phillies have had some success over the years bringing along raw, projectable right handers, and as I wrote a couple of weeks back in a prospect roundup intro, the nice thing with pitching prospects (as opposed to hitting prospects) is that there's always a chance that things just click, be it the result of physical development, new mechanics, a new pitch, what have you.

Kevin Walter, RHP, Williamsport: 20th round, 2010, $350K bonus. While Musser has struggled thus far in 2011, fellow 2011 draftee Walter has struggled to even get on the field. I still haven't seen anything reliable on Walter's whereabouts (aside from the fact that he's technically on the Williamsport disabled list), which is a shame, especially given that I thought highly enough of the Colorado high school product to rank him #18 in last offseason's prospect rankings. We'll have to hope for the time being that whatever injury Walter is dealing with won't linger, and we can get some reports on him from instructs this fall.

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Phillies sign Larry Greene

based on this tweet.

Some more here.


Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011

by schmenkman on Aug 15, 2011 7:38 AM EDT reply actions  

One MILLION Dollars!

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Aug 15, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

wonder why it took so long

by phillies0100 on Aug 15, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome, thanks for this, wound up going to bed before I saw it.

$1 million is definitely above slot, though I’m not sure by how much. I’d assume the organization was able to treat him as a two sport athlete to spread the bonus payments out. Still, you’d have to think this eats into the budget more than they would’ve liked.

by PhillyFriar on Aug 15, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

BA says slot was $844,200.

So, $155,800 over.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

That last $800 is a killer.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

They’re going to downgrade to day-old rolls for one of next year’s Dollar Dog Nights.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 15, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

They were going to up the price, but $1.46 Dog Night just didn’t have the same ring to it.

Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose

by TheOrangeCone on Aug 15, 2011 10:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

zing!

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 15, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you, I’ll be here all season. Tip your smug executives.

Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose

by TheOrangeCone on Aug 15, 2011 12:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Jim Salisbury says team is confident of signing Quinn.

This tweet (no idea if reliable) says Garvey decided not to sign.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 8:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Eh, no big loss. I’m more discouraged by reports that Walding has gone back to California after spending the last few days in Philly.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I saw an article also said he wanted 250K – 300K but never recieved an offer, I really hope the Phils get a couple more players today besides Quinn.

by gingerredboy on Aug 15, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Phuture Phillies, at least, is pretty confident in their getting Walding in addition to Quinn, but the rest seem like longshots.

by Trev223 on Aug 15, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

James also noted, they were mostly gut feelings and he was fairly confident they’d sign Garvey. For me, if they can come out with Quinn, Greene, Greene, and Schull I would consider this a pretty successful draft.

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d be pretty happy with that, honestly. I really like that the club seemed to focus on up-the-middle guys this year, so getting Greene and possibly Walding as overslot prep shortstops (and Quinn, though it sounds like he’s not terribly likely to stick there) would be great. Shull and Garvey would be nice to add, but we’ll just have to see how it shakes out, I guess.

by PhillyFriar on Aug 15, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

They’ve gotta add another pitcher or two, right? I mean, that seems to be their usual approach, so it’d be odd to see them end today without at least Shull or Dygestile-Therrien. I mean, neither is a can’t miss guy, but I’d be surprised to see neither of them sign.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

They HAVE to sign Dygestile-Therrien. You just can’t pass on a name like that.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Especially with the first name Jesen. It’s a trifecta of funky.

Bob.

by The Dark on Aug 15, 2011 12:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I started off two sentences in a row with “I mean.” Ugh.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, ugh, that’s pretty bad.

by Phrozen on Aug 16, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kind of glad Garvey didn’t get signed (reportedly). I’m not sure if I could bring myself to root for an offspring of Steve Garvey.

Welcome to the City of Brotherly Love, now GTFO

by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 15, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, apparently Domingo Santana is the PTBNL.
Terrible, just terrible.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

http://twitter.com/#!/PhoulBallz/status/103141438874861568

Yeah, I hate this.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 15, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never liked him quite as much as others this year with that insanely high K-rate, but he still had an incredibly high potential.
Just ridiculous to have to give him up as well as Singleton. That’s our two top positional prospects right there.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not even sure I’d be happy giving up that much for Matt Kemp.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m so pissed right now. Sometimes I hate this fan base.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I might as well not pay attention to the minors. It’ll be less painful.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s a pretty good chance that in 11 months, the Phillies will be in a dogfight with the Braves for the division. If Ruben could make the trade he made this year, what will he be willing to give up next year? What’s going to stop him from cleaning everything out until there is nothing left?

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thankfully, there really won’t be a hole to fill next year. 3rd base, possibly, or SS if Jimmy is gone, but beyond that all the positions are basically locked up. Closer maybe, but you just have to hope that everyone performs well enough to prevent something like that.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you have Dom in LF next year, and if his power is anything less than above average for the first two months, look out…

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

If everyone stays healthy. Probably better than 50/50 odds that somebody will get hurt though. Not just because they’re older, but because the odds are like that for any team. Once an injury happens, the drumbeat will begin.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Michael Young rumors will start by mid-March.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve got it. This offseason, Ruben can trade Trevor May and Jesse Biddle for Young. Then he can let Jimmy Rollins walk and put Young in at shortstop. That way Young can teach us how to win. Between him and Pence, the winninf quotient will skyrocket. They are Philly-type players.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pence + Young = Winninf!

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

3rd base

I could seriously see this being an issue. As much as I love Polly and rooted early and often for his return to Philly. He’s getting older and he’s only signed through next year. So that hole is there to fill for 2013 either way.

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but Polly is still here. I have no idea what the 2013 FA class for 3rd base is, but it’s probably more friendly than the 2012 RF class is.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

meh

Geoff Blum
Miguel Cairo
Brandon Inge*
Maicer Izturis
Chipper Jones*
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Placido Polanco*
Mark Reynolds*
Scott Rolen
Mark Teahen
Ty Wigginton*
David Wright*
Kevin Youkilis*

(* = option, via)

not a great list outside of Wright (who will be 30) and Youk (34).

by perfectdepth on Aug 15, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

You never know what “needs”/ areas of improvement this team may have at next year’s deadline- they very well may feel the need for starting pitching next July or have some other glarjng weakness come up between now and then, and Amaro has shown far too much willingness to mortgage the future for today.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 15, 2011 1:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Scary.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 15, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Amaro's decision making I could understand,

But, why do you hate the fan base?

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 15, 2011 12:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Who cares, he's just a prospect.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Booooo!

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I would like a dislike button right now. For the record, I think Santana is one of the longest of longshots in the Org, but he also probably has the single highest ceiling (including Singleton and Cosart).

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wade, on the other hand, has got the better of the Phillies more than once. :(

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The better question now is whether Ed Wade has ever ripped off the Phillies. I think the answer to that is now “yes,” albeit only once. Wade and Amaro worked together for years, so it does make me wonder if Wade has a good read on Amaro’s soft spots for high-profile acquisitions.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was watching Sports Reporters on ESPN Sunday morning. On their parting shots, one of the hosts (not Lupica or Albom) was ripping Houston and saying how the Phillies had acquired Pence without even giving up their top prospects. He didn’t say it, but I assume he was referring to Dom.

by Boundforbeach on Aug 15, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I’m sure glad they didn’t give up Dom — the guys they gave up are much bigger risks than Dom. Singleton will probably be very good but probably would have been traded anyway; I don’t think he’s ever going to be a good LF. It’s rare for a 1B to move positions and perform well. The others are basically lottery tickets at this point. Still, it’s too much to give up. But at least they didn’t give up the one who is already very good. Dom looks to be their everyday LF next year, and that’s something I’m at least hopeful for.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

You shouldn’t be “glad” that they didn’t give up Brown. Giving up Brown would be absolute insanity. That’s no basis to evaluate anything.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah, but it was whispered that they might give up Brown. I’m glad it didn’t happen, even if that does nothing to justify the blunder that did happen.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

jonathan singleton

Post-trade stats:

19 for 56, 5 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, 3 BB, 16 K
.339/.373/.571

The California League is hitter-friendly, but he’s only 19.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess they asked him to not take pitches. If I saw that line, I’d think it was Valle, not Singleton.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but SSS. Who knows, maybe he’s the type who was being too passive?

by PhillyFriar on Aug 15, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

santana's lakewood stats

350 AB, 94 H, 29 2B, 4 3B, 7 HR, 26 BB, 120 K
.269/.345/.434
Born August 5, 1992

That was a lot of doubles.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, one thing about Santana is that he has a ton of HBP. It’s actually worthy of mention.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was just coming here to comment on this. Just awful.

by Trev223 on Aug 15, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but, don’t forget, we got Hunter Pence. Without the new energy he brought we never would have had a chance to win it all, but now we’re almost a lock.

Barf.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flags (won before the actual World Series occurs) fly forever, after all!

by Trev223 on Aug 15, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Energy + Teaching Howard how to hit to the opposite field for power :)

by Boundforbeach on Aug 15, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hunter Pence is a nice player, but boy did they overrate him. Not that they needed anyone in the outfield; Dom Brown was doing fine, and sending him to the minors was stupid, but Hunter Pence isn’t someone you should break the bank for. He’s a corner OF who hits like a decent corner OF. Slightly better than average starter. Brown will be the better player next year, but he’ll forever have the BS (BobbyAbreu Syndrome) where the fans claim he doesn’t have the hustle to win championships.

Not that you don’t know any of this, I’m just venting.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

They were bashing Abreu on the radio just this morning. Must have been Retro Day. Apparently he’s one of those guys that John Kruk alluded to who “didn’t have the guts to succeed here.”

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because it was his fault no one on those teams could pitch, right?

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Did he ever once dive for the ball? Did he ever sacrifice anything for the team?”

Plus, lots of the standard nonsense about him being afraid of the wall.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m tired of the “addition by subtraction” BS I hear. It’s my husband’s standard argument. “That’s when they started winning.”

No, actually, they started winning before that. Once they got some real pitching and Hamels got called up, the team became exponentially better. It’s not a coincidence.

What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.

by doubleh on Aug 15, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dare you to call into Missanelli’s show and accuse him of “post hoc ergo propter hoc.”

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh man. I’ve heard just enough (already way too much) Missanelli to give this a shot:

“Oh, oh, you got your post-hoah propter-blah blah blah, just STOP IT. All I know is that when they shipped A-bray-yoo outta town, they started WINNING. And you HATERS can say what you want, but (cues in sound fx panel; obvious clip plays) that’s a fact…Jack!”

/derisive laughter

“Come on man…stop living in the past! That’s bush league ‘brotha’ — next call.”

by Trev223 on Aug 15, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, has Missanelli actually gotten worse since his WIP days? I haven’t listened in years.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll grant that I’m possibly exaggerating, but he is pretty horrible. I’ll stand by the buzzwords, for sure.

by Trev223 on Aug 15, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the by, I thought that was a pretty crass thing for Kruk to say, with Dick Allen standing right there.

by Trev223 on Aug 15, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. I didn’t think of that until I just read this. You’re right. Kruk’s ending words were a bit too simple, especially when considering Dick Allen,

by Romero on Aug 15, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jesus F. Christ.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by alcatraz0109 on Aug 15, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m now actively rooting for at least one or two of these guys to turn into superstars and stand as an embarrassment to this organization. It’s inevitable that they’re going to get badly burned one of these days. The sooner it happens, the more likely it’ll deter them from continuing to compound their mistakes.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I sort of root for them anyway.
Hell, I half expect them to end up trading for Singleton for a playoff push in 2016.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

the thing most don’t realize is, even if they don’t pan out, or bomb, it doesn’t mean much of anything; a) the point is, perhaps Santana could have been used in a useful trade in, say, 2013, so instead you’re using all your chips early and b) players develop differently in different systems…. maybe Cosart doesn’t develop because the Astros are bad at developing and protecting pitchers?

by yolacrary on Aug 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come to think of it, did Wade ever give up a prospect who developed into a star player for the other team? I’m trying to think of even one, and it’s just not coming to mind. Of course, he was rarely a “buyer.”

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Almost traded Utley, right?

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Supposedly. It seems like Utley was sought after, but nobody knows how seriously Wade considered pulling the trigger. What is known is that a whole lot of the oh-so-knowledgeable baseball fans in this city ripped him a new a-hole for not pulling the trigger.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

When was this? I don’t remember Utley ever being on the table. He got rid of Polanco instead, so that’s more telling to me than what he “almost” might have done.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Billy Beane reportedly wanted him for Zito

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh, remember when Billy Beane was a smart GM?

Seriously though, like you said above, that doesn’t mean Wade was considering offering him.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. That’s the #1 reason why the Phillies are where they are today. Not the Halladay trade, not the Lee signing, none of that. Ed Wade’s policy was far and away the most important factor in allowing this current “golden age.”

Off the top of my head, I think the best young player he traded away was Carlos Silva.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Off the top of my head, I think the best young player he traded away was Carlos Silva.

Like I said, no one who became a star for another team.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, and that was a bad trade, but Byrd didn’t become a star for the team he was traded to. It’s hard to blame him, given that Byrd looked like a disappointment at the big league level, but I definitely thought it was a stupid move to give him up for such a pathetic return. Would have made more sense to sit him on the bench and hope for him to get his swing back.

But anyway, that’s a pretty good record.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know that Byrd ever became a “star”, per se, but he is a solid major league contributor. Certainly better than some of the dreck we had to run out there the ensuing 3 seasons.

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I’d say Byrd was a borderline star for the Rangers and Cubs, but the Phillies traded him to the Nationals. It looked like they were right about him for a couple of years, before he suddenly started smoking the ball when he went to Texas.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, what drek do you mean? They did run a lot of Ricky Ledee that one year, and he wasn’t great, but then you had Kenny Lofton and later Aaron Rowand, who did solid jobs in CF between Burrell and Abreu. By the time Byrd was an everyday player with the Cubs, Victorino was out there, and I’d take him over Byrd at this point.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ricky Ledee and Rowand (though, I suppose calling Rowand dreck is a little harsh. Plus in ‘08, I’d have rather had him than Jenkins, but I suppose that would have probably blocked Werth, so it all works out in the end.)

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ledee was actually pretty decent at the plate that year.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the Ledee/Michaels platoon was quite productive, as was the Lofton/Michaels platoon.

by phatj on Aug 15, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

IIRC, Rowand was still very strong defensively with the Phillies. Yes, he was overhyped for breaking his nose on the CF wall, but I don’t see why it has become a thing to consider him a poor player. He was very solid with the Phillies, though they did sell on him at the right time.

And yeah, Ledee was decent for what he was. Stopgap platoon outfielder. Should have been a backup, but he held his own.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rowand was alright.

The nose-breaking thing wasn’t just overhyped though. It was an actively negative thing that hurt his team. Players that take stupid risks like that should be punished.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you there. (See! It does happen!)

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like Bump Bailey. Oh, wait, the team then got Roy Hobbs as a replacement and started winning.

by phillyinportland on Aug 15, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I HATED Rowand in the field.

by phatj on Aug 15, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to Fangraphs, he actually was declining really fast when he got to the Phillies, even moreso than I had remembered. He was outstanding defensively in Chicago, but just decent in Philly, and has been nothing special in San Fran either. But he did hit pretty well in 2007, good for 6 WAR.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know overall he had a good year in 2007. But my lasting impression of him in the field, aside from the faceplant, was him cutting off Victorino in the RF gap, when Vic was better equipped (both by position and by arm) to make a throw.

by phatj on Aug 15, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rowand’s arm was crap.

But still, if you believe UZR, he was an above average defensive CF for the Phils. TZ doesn’t like him as much, but I don’t like TZ as much. (It knows what it did.)

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh right. Forgot about him.

Byrd was already 27 at the time though.

by taco pal on Aug 15, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Given the number of prospects the Phillies have traded away over the last three years, it seems almost inevitable. On the other hand, it’s not like these players were traded away for Mike Williams and his spirit brothers. So, if one or even a few of the multitudes end up haunting the Phils a bit some years down the road I’m OK with that.

by phatj on Aug 15, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!

Good game, Lets eat

by JpH89 on Aug 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously, by 2013/2014, we could potentially have one of the worst offenses in baseball

We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!

Good game, Lets eat

by JpH89 on Aug 15, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, not unless the payroll crashes.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we have so many contracts expiring by then. Shane, Jimmy, Madson, polly, Chooch, Pence, Doc. Thats a LOT of positions that gotta get replaced by players that are already established ball players, since we don’t have the prospects to fill them. Maybe Chooch with Valle. But other then that we could be fucked.

We got the 4 aces for baseball, 3CBO in football, and the Russian Walls in hockey. Philly is no longer the blue collar losers, were primetime baby!

Good game, Lets eat

by JpH89 on Aug 15, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

3rd base is a problem spot. Beyond that, Utley will still be on the team, as will Pence probably. Jimmy would still be around if he’s resigned. CF could be filled from within, or could still be Shane. Doc will almost certainly be extended.
Not sure why you mentioned Madson at all.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus we’ll have Brown.

by j reed on Aug 15, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well yeah, I didn’t mention Howard or Brown because those too are guarantees.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either would have worked, actually, with proper commage.

by Phrozen on Aug 16, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

True, but all of those guys will aslo be beyond 30, and therefore, no longer in their prime years. I’m not as doom and gloom as jph89, but it ain’t all flowers and bunny rabbits either.

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, but the possibility of having an older offense doesn’t equate to “we could potentially have one of the worst offenses in baseball.”

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did say I wasn’t as doom and gloom.

by Cormican on Aug 15, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, I really just read the first sentence. My bad.
And no, it isn’t, especially if we keep trading away talent for much less than full value. Still, if the payroll is 160MM or higher, it’d take quite a lot to not have a half-decent offense.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Got a (belated) Fanshot up on this.

Yup, definitely not thrilled.

by PhillyFriar on Aug 15, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, if this happened only because Leandro Castro was injured, I guess I don’t understand the way the Astros evaluate prospects.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Where are you seeing that?

If it’s because of Castro being hurt, maybe it’s the opposite issue?

Wade: We want Santana as the final player.

RAJ: Nah, I’m not sure I want to give him up. How about Leandro Castro?

Wade: Sure, deal. What if Castro gets hurt before the deal can go through?

RAJ: Uh, you can have Jiwan James or something.

Wade: James isn’t going to make it.

RAJ: Kyrell Hudson?

Wade: LOL

RAJ: Okay, fine, if Castro gets hurt, we’ll give you Santana. If that’s what it takes to get Pence.

Wade: Thanks buddy! (sends minions to sabotage Castro)

Okay, it was probably nothing like that.

by Rujasu on Aug 15, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was mentioned in a ESPN column a few days ago.

by philsandthrills on Aug 15, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Green evaluation is encouraging. Assuming things go well how long would he be in the minors?

by j reed on Aug 15, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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