Wait What?: Nationals 8, Phillies 4
by WholeCamels on Aug 20, 2011 1:01 AM EDT
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Charlie Manuel went to the well with Ryan Madson one too many times, and it cost the Phillies tonight in Washington, as the Nationals rallied against the Phillies' closer, scoring six runs in the bottom of the ninth and winning tonight's game 8-4 on two out Ryan Zimmerman walkoff grand slam. Truly horror of Lovecraftian proportions.
The game was a weird one from the start, with a two-hour plus rain delay commencing midway through the top of the first inning. Looking to protect his fragile, erstwhile ace, the Phillies decided to shelve scheduled starter Roy Oswalt in favor of Kyle Kendrick, who did a more than adequate job, giving up just two runs in six innings pitched.
The Phillies did all of their scoring in the top of the third inning, batting around against Livan Hernandez, who returned to the game after the rain delay and coughed up four runs and seven hits in four innings pitched. The Nats' bullpen took control, however, allowing just one Phillies hit and one walk in a combined five innings of work from Tom Gorzellany, Sean Burnett, and Todd Coffey.
After Brad Lidge and Antonio Bastardo each contributed a hitless inning, the Nats managed to get to Madson early, despite only actually hitting a couple of balls hard. After allowing consecutive singles to start off the inning to Jayson Werth, Danny Espinosa, and Jonny Gomes, the Phillies stared down a first and second, nobody out jam. After Wilson Ramos bunted Espinosa and Gomes to third and second, an intentional walk to Jesus Flores, an Ian Desmond single tied game at four runs apiece. Madson managed to strike out Rick Ankiel, who is a bad hitter, for the second out, but fell to a full count against All-Star Ryan Zimmerman. Madson grooved a fastball, and that was it.
So maybe that decision to pitch Bastardo and Madson with a 9-2 lead on Wednesday night wasn't the best tactical move, huh?
Fangraph of Suffering
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oh wait...
it will become worse when Sportsrise continually replays it every 120 seconds.
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Do your sanity a favor. Turn off Sportsrise. Do not turn on the pre-game show tomorrow, nor stay around for the seemingly inevitable two hour dose of rain delay theater. It may even be a good idea to listen to the game on mute. You see, the Phillies have not lost many games in the ninth inning this year. Because of this, everyone acts like the world is going to end because the ninth inning did not go well again. In reality, there is nothing to see here. They lost, it sucks that it happened, but the world is not going to end, and the season is not over.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I know all of this from BSH, its just, I kinda like RickyBo, and his obnoxiousness or however you spell that word..
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
You like RickyBo? Girl, what is wrong with you? /s
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
yes, hes an ass, yes he’s over confident, yes he really wants to be as knowledge able as he thinks he is, and yes, all these things make him an ass, but……
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I get it. You LIKE the bad boys.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
its not that, its just i kinda like that he says shit that needs to be said
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Cocaine makes you smarter.
Like Harry Ellis smarter.
by j reed on Aug 20, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t stand him- I can deal with snarky, I can even deal with pompous, but he is just wrong about so much- even when the Phillies win I usually can not watch the whole of the postgame because of him.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Does anyone know why they kept the middle infield in after the IBB? If they were at DP depth I think Chase catches that bloop by Desmond
31 and counting...
Agreed. I hate the “book.”
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
you mean the Gut, right?…the book would have them somewhere in between half-way and DP depth depending on the speed of the runner
31 and counting...
I actually like the “Gut”, so long as it’s the right “gut.”
For all of Cholly’s bullpen misadventures, he’s often had his gut proven right when it comes to hitting.
Plus, I kinda love the old school antithesis of Girardi and his fucking actual book that he consults and plays match-up’s with. I always think of Lisa Simpson managing by computer whenever I see that smug, purse-lipped, skeleton flipping through his binder like it’s a book of spells or some shit.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
If we want to hate The Book™, could we start with the chapter on playing “No Doubles” defense while up by two?
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Didn't you get the memo?
It’s the Don’t-Hit-It-Over-My-Head™ Defense now.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
No matter what you call it, it is baseball’s own version of the prevent defense, and tonight it helped to prevent the Philllies from winning.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, I know. I’m just riffing on the “Wheels is terrible” meme.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Phils have won more than they’ve lost…but they are no longer the doormat they were.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
That fangraph
fittingly resembles an ass.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Damn you’re right. May tomorrow’s be a steady nine inning onward and downward flow.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The FanGraph, dang it!!!! Although a sudden, early inning, precipitous drop from 50% to near 0 works too.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ewwww…
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There are things in life you don’t want to admit seeing…..
Welcome to the City of Brotherly Love, now GTFO
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 20, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
whats worse?
The Fangraph of Sadness or the Fangraph of Suffering????
Ah, fuck that noise.
He’s got $127 mil and the memory of Jen Utley’s stank on his hang-down.
I waste no violin strings on him.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
was there a rumor of his and the mrs?
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
There seem to be too many rumours of players with OPW in this city.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
It was a joke
that was a play off of the Lebron’s Mom thing that took on a life of its own.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
ah, i ignore all things ringless
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
It was dumb and I never liked it since Mrs. Chase is such a sweetheart, but we just got Walked-off salami style by the fucking Nats, so I’m kinda just shouting at the wind right now.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
suprisingly im over it already…
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I am, too, but the Jameson in me is a grudge-holding bastard :-)
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Goodnight
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Aug 20, 2011 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
And goodnight stars.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Charlie Manuel went to the well with Ryan Madson one too many times, and it cost the Phillies tonight in Washington, as the Nationals rallied against the Phillies’ closer, scoring six runs in the bottom of the ninth and winning tonight’s game 8-4 on two out Ryan Zimmerman walkoff grand slam.
Hold up.
Charlie Manuel has used Ryan Madson frequently, perhaps too frequently. True.
The Nationals scored six runs against Ryan Madson in the bottom of the ninth to win 8-4. True.
Ryan Madson gave up six runs because he was used too much. Not necessarily!
In two-thirds of an inning, Madson struck out one and walked one (intentionally!), and gave up five hits including a home run.
Now, it’s possibly fair to say that Madson didn’t have his best stuff tonight, but it’s not necessarily true that this was because of him being used so much. The stat line is, aside from the five hits and six runs, in line with his usual level of performance. The five hits may have resulted from his stuff being more hittable (anyone catch his MPH readings or pitch movement?) but also could have been bad luck. In other words, it’s possible that this was going to happen anyway, even with Madson fully rested. Maybe the hitters were just locked in this time. It’s hard to say at this point, though perhaps a closer look at the film or the pitch location data as compared to his more effective outings would give us a better idea. (I’d do this tomorrow, actually, but I have plans.)
In any case, point is let us not jump to conclusions too quickly. Tonight wasn’t Madson’s night. That may or may not be a result of him being tired. We don’t know. Post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that stuff.
his velocity was down and he couldn’t locate his change-up…both common results for Madson when he is a bit tired…and hence, the complaints about using him in the 7 run lead game
31 and counting...
I thought his fastball, at least at the beginning was still 96, which I thought was about normal for him. He was having some problems throwing the changeup, too.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok- I did not catch the part where it was tailing off- sounds kind of like either fatigue or mental let down.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Velocity being down to 92-94 doesn’t necessarily lead to ineffectiveness, though. Not on the order of six runs, anyway.
The location of the changeup may or may not be related to fatigue.
I would think that under normal circumstances, Madson does fine with this amount of fatigue, or at least not this bad. I’m sure it didn’t help, but it’s likely a combination of factors at most.
I don’t know what broadcast you were watching, or what Madson you think throws every pitch 96 or what you think a change up is supposed to do. He hit 96 a few times, which is normal for him, but he rarely throws that hard an entire inning. He was sitting at 93-94, which is normal. He threw his cutter 91-92 which is normal. His change up was somewhat inconsistent, but the only hit off of it was wild luck on an unbelievable pitch. The only times it was bad was when he underthrew it, so it didn’t reach the plate. Of course that makes it more inconsistent, but it’s better than hanging it. He threw a few real good disappearing ones. Unable to locate it? That’s nonsense.
In sum, he looked like unhittable Ryan Madson and fell victim to a whole ton of random 2-strike singles. To act like he looked tired and incapable of getting three outs is ridiculous.
As far as his velocity, your right, he doesn’t throw 95-96 the whole inning. He does however hit it occasionally later in the inning when he needs to and yes I went back and checked. His change-up appeared to be flatter than normal and if you couldn’t tell he was having trouble locating it, than I don’t know what broadcast you were watching. Was he victim of luck?…absolutely. Could this have happened because he was a bit tired?…maybe.
31 and counting...
by DirtyWaters on Aug 20, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
T-Mac was going on and on about the newspaper story that said the Nats were trying to model themselves on the Phils.
Did it include a part about stealing signs? Because Madson wasn’t that off with regards to stuff, yet every hitter was right on everything he threw.
Not calling foul, mind you. If they did, they did. More power to them. Was very surprised to see Chooch using regular finger-signs, though, rather than the chest-pad, helmet, thighs semaphore they usually use with the bases juiced.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
yea, he was, and i didnt like the extra bald head
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
Me either
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i mean, it was EXTRA bald!
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
His head is too lumpy for the shaved look. He can’t rock it like Jimmy can.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Yeah- it looked awful… And he is usually so easy on the eyes… Tonight, not so much.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You may be right. He bounced a couple of changeups, but I didn’t see him missing Chooch’s target by obviously wide margins.
However, I freely admit that I am tired and drunk and it is entirely possible that I am totally and completely wrong.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I do for mine, as well.
Oddly enough, it’s written on my grandfather’s tombstone.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Manuel says the game should not have been started at all
hmmm
"There's cool, and then there's Claude Giroux"
Resident GleeK
SUPER 8 BITCHES
I agree with him FWIW. Of course, now it just sounds like sour grapes but he was trying to get it postponed before it resumed.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
I do as well.
Not that it factors into the loss, much, mind you. Kyle pitched a very good game. Still, it’s kinda retarded when they don’t at least delay a game when there’s a fucking WALL of falling water a half mile from the ballpark and visibly getting closer.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
No, but it does affect the entire series.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
But perhaps not as much as we think. If Oswalt can go six to seven innings tomorrow night, the Phillies are in exactly the same place that they would have been in if Oswalt had started tonight and Kendrick tomorrow. Yeah, the bullpen may be very short tomorrow, but a big part of that is the repeated use of Bastardo and Madson- which on the one hand is a sign of good things (as they generally do not pitch in a losing effort), but at the same time leaves the pen vulnerable every once and again.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 1:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The bullpen is going to be extremely short. It’s already short due to Hamels’ injury. Madson and Bastardo aren’t going to be available obviously (and if they even so much as get up in the bullpen I will take the train down to DC and set Charlie’s book on fire). Herndon probably won’t be available after going three innings on Thursday, and who know about Lidge going two nights in a row. Throw in Oswalt’s chronic back issues and tonight’s game doesn’t bode well.
Welcome to the City of Brotherly Love, now GTFO
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 20, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
True. My point is that Kyle being out there today if Oswalt only gave us sox last night would not have been much more comfortable, and other than the consequences of the Thursday rain delay (for Herndon). Bastardo and Madson would have been three in a row either way (and using Bastardo Wednesday was the right decision- only up 3 in the top of the 8th), and Stutes is still available.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
which is why the Nats started the game.
Home team has perogative to start a game or not. They knew our pen was short. Its also why Charlie wanted a postponement.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
Thing is, a postponement would only have been to today or tomorrow- how is that any better for the pen (could argue that it is worse)- Oswalt would still be in the condition he is in today, and Lidge would not have been able to pitch both games.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Granted, I’m a fan of the other team, but Manuel did have a good point. After the rain delay, there seemed to be an awful lot of fielding misadventures for both teams on balls I figured would have been cleanly fielded had the field been dry (or a better chance).
There was the ball that Nix misplayed into a triple; the ball Desmond bobbled where they didn’t get the double play but only the force. And then a few misplays for the Phillies as well. In most of the cases, the chances were tough, so they weren’t “officially” errors but …
I figure they played the game anyway because of the difficulty in rescheduling a game that nearly 40K people have shown up for (and would have been more with better weather and if the motorcycle "911’ tribute weren’t going on as well).
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
The thing that made this game worse
was that Bryce Harper was in the front row behind home plate barely paying attention….such a classic JD Drewesque villain…can’t wait
31 and counting...
Start shining up those AA’s. JUST KIDDING! (maybe)
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
Of course you’re kidding.
This situation calls for D cells.
by Phrozen on Aug 20, 2011 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Now there’s a Harper sized battery!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s the first prospect I’ve ever caught myself hoping gets beaned in some sort of career-altering manner, or at the very least busts huge in relation to his projected stats.
It’s terrible and I’m not proud of it… just everything about him SCREAMS “Douchenozzle.”
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 20, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
On the total opposite side of the spectrum...
I spotted Justice Alito in the crowd during the 9th inning….makes sense since he’s a big Phillies fan.
.210/.308/.268
The Harper you're rooting against is largely a media creation
At the risk of running into confirmation bias, here’s another take on Harper.
The media creation he helped along with shit like the eye black? At least he’s stopped giving Gorgoroth good reason to stomp his face in. Now you wouldn’t think that a media whore of his magnitude would pass up an appearance at a hearing impaired fantasy baseball camp appearance? He’s gonna be a helluva player but a straight up uber douche. Prepare yourself for many a facepalm and first pump.
Well facepalm one for me.
As usual, proof reading fail. Corrected.
Now you wouldn’t think that a media whore of his magnitude would pass up an appearance at a hearing impaired fantasy baseball camp?
So, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't?
He’s a douche if he doesn’t do charity events, but if he does do charity events then he’s a media whore. Welcome to the world of confirmation bias.
I’m actually acgnostic on whether he’s a good person or a bad person (for an 18yo; I remember being 18). Using media reports I can easily create the good person (plays the game hard, good family, gets great grades in school, teammates like him, etc) or the bad person (disrespects umpires, blew a kiss to an opposing pitcher, walks away from fans, eye black, etc). I saw him at Nationals Fanfest this year and he seemed very respectful (particularly of Frank Howard, who appeared on the panel with him). That doesn’t make me think that I know him, but it does make me open to the idea that what ESPN and the bloggers are feeding me might not be true.
Remember when Ken Griffey Jr. came up and was disrespecting the game because he wore his cap backwards?
Why did Charlie keep Madson in the game?
After three straight singles and one ER, it should have been clear this wasn’t Madson’s night.
Seems to me that nearly the same thing happened with Halladay on Tuesday. It smells of 2009’s Lidge when Cholly would just keep him out there no matter how bad he did. It was painful to watch.
by Benjamin Gerber on Aug 20, 2011 2:18 AM EDT reply actions
Closers close, it was late, and Cholly was prolly hongry.
The question really is why he used him last night.
See answer above.
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 20, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, the question is- pull him for who? Only two pitchers were available in the Phillies pen- Schwimer and Stutes. The last thing you want to do is send a rookie call up out to see his first ever action with the tying run on second and the winning run on first, and Stutes has been regressing pretty hard, having allowed runs in most of his recent appearances.
Also, there was nobody warming in the pen last night- he may not have been able to even get someone up in time to avoid the tie, and at that point he would have needed to keep Stutes and Schwimer for extras.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
THIS
I specifically mentioned this in the game thread after the first two got on!
Would you have pulled him, and who for? There was no response to my post, of course, since there was no possible response to my post.
Hunter Pence will not guarantee a WS, but, then, neither does Carlos Beltran.
I wasn’t there, but if I had been, my answer would have been exactly the above- even as that inning was unravelling, I knew that it was Madson’s to win or lose.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well…that fucking sucked. Tomorrow, vengeance.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
Also, this was the last non-national game I’ll see for a while, as I’m headed back to school. What a way to send me off.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
by Senor Octubre on Aug 20, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
So if Charlie brings in Madson to save the game on Tuesday after Halladay got into trouble
Then Charlie doesn’t feel a need to use Madson in the blowout on Wednesday to “get work”
Which means that on Thursday he would have been pitching with rest, instead of on consecutive days
Which means that for this game, Madson would only have been pitching on two consecutive days instead of three
There’s a decent chance that Charlie’s idiotic decision on Tuesday has now cost the Phillies two games.
Great work, Charlie. I’m sure you won’t learn a thing.
He’s not wrong
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
Good points all around. Unfortunately Charlie doesn’t seem capable of learning from mistakes and would rather stick to what he thinks is right.
Welcome to the City of Brotherly Love, now GTFO
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 20, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering that he was directly asked on Wednesday about whether he would leave Halladay in if the same situation, you can rest assured he learned nothing about that one. As for using his closer with a seven run lead when the closer has not pitched in a week, I doubt that lesson will ever be learned either.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 2:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Phillies starters in AA, A+, A, and A- collectively allow 0 ER today
Austin Hyatt
6.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 3 BB, 6 K, 0 HR
23 BF, 5 GB, 1 LD, 8 FB (2 pop)
Julio Rodriguez
7.0 IP, 6 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 9 K, 1 HBP
27 BF, 4 GB, 1 LD, 12 FB (2 pop)
Austin Wright
5.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 9 K
19 BF, 3 GB, 1 LD, 4 FB, 1 SH
Colin Kleven
5.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 3 BB, 3 K, 0 HR, 1 HBP
22 BF, 7 GB, 1 LD, 7 FB (4 pop)
Kleven and Hyatt: stop walking dudes. That is all. Otherwise, swell job.
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 20, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade them to the Padres and they will
by FearTheTurtIe on Aug 20, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh karma
What would the world be without you?
Times change, like the climate I change. Check the forecast. I reign.
by secondroundpick on Aug 20, 2011 6:32 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I will say, being on the wrong side of these ninth-inning comebacks is pretty annoying.
I don’t think Madson was gassed or too stretched. He wasn’t pitching badly at all. The gNats were just hitting him. I do wonder what would have happened if Lidge had come out for the eighth and they saved Bastardo (who incidentally was ALSO NOT GASSED ONE BIT) for the ninth. It’s not Monday-morning quarterbacking, because I’m not arrogant enough to presume that’s what they should have done.
Bottom line, impressive comeback against a good pitcher. Unfortunately, we were on the wrong side of said comeback.
Two of the three batter’s in the 8th were lefties, which means Lodge wouldn’t have pitched that inning. They could have and imo should have gone with the new guy, Bastardo then Lidge to close.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
by EREX21 on Aug 20, 2011 10:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Uggh
But the consensus of the posters appears to be
80-43>BMS (Blown Madson save)>Madson cue ball look>Cholly proper utilization of bullpen
Dang this board is smart…
"If I am not back in 5 minutes...wait longer" Ace Ventura, Pet Detective
Ok… So we digressed a little and got the last two parts out of order… We will try to do better next time.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 10:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant what we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, has hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
- from H.P. Lovecraft’s The Call of Cthulhu
Boycott calamari.
So sabermetrics, looks like were damned if we do and really damned if we do.
by j reed on Aug 20, 2011 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Will this fit on our TGP masthead?
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 20, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps just “Correlating the Contents of the Human Mind Since 2005”?
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Aug 20, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“Either going mad from revelations or fleeing from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.”
by Wet Luzinski on Aug 21, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I for one welcome our new primordially evil overlords
"Ninety percent of this game is half mental" - Yogi Berra (SI, May 14, 1979)
by bandwagonesque on Aug 20, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
for what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s useful to blame this loss on Charlie’s managing of Tuesday’s loss…. I agree Madson should have been brought in in that game, and not used Wednesday, but there’s he’s pitched three days in a row numerous times in the past, to little ill effect… and, as noted by somebody, Bastardo also pitched those three days, and was dominant…. sometimes dudes just don’t have it, which lets lady luck pull her shit
that is, if Tuesday and Wednesday’s games had been reversed (blowout Tuesday, 2-1 game Wednesday), and Madson HAD been brought in to close out Wed., I don’t think too many of us would be complaining about his appearance in a third straight game…
on the other hand, I wouldn’t mind a policy that said not to allow appearances in three straight games, but then you’d need to be less wedded to the setup/closer role system… Lidge throws 6 pitches? bring him back out for the 8th, with somebody ready to go should he get into Lidge-like trouble (or labor too much); same with the other guys. Etc.
Couldn’t bring Lidge back in- due to his injuries, he has been a one inning guy for years.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 10:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m aware of that. Lidge is perhaps a bad example (though I doubt he’d fall apart if he started the next inning, with a low pitch count being the watchword), but I see little reason for relievers to be burnt on six or seven pitch innings.. in any event, the main point is objecting to the rigid roles the setup man/closer get slotted into
To run the risk of completely overreacting to a couple losses, does the last week have anyone else thinking this team is starting to look like the Phillies’ 2009 stretch run?
Welcome to the City of Brotherly Love, now GTFO
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 20, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions
How would that be an overreaction? 2009 was a pretty good year.
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by WholeCamels on Aug 20, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m talking more about the stretch run in 09, when the Philles went something like 15-15 at the end of the season.
Welcome to the City of Brotherly Love, now GTFO
by Veni Vidi Vici on Aug 20, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
Where is that basis for comparison coming from?
by PhilsForever on Aug 20, 2011 1:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No- the past six games have been a confluence of uncommon circumstances- Hels being hurt and not pitching well, Halladay and Madson showing that guess what, they’re mortal. It is 6 games, not 30 after a stretch where they went 12-1. They will be fine!
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hamels
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Aug 20, 2011 2:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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