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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Losing Battles. Winning Wars?

This might not be saying much, but it’s probable the last week of play has been the least pleasant of the season for the Phillies in 2011. In addition to irritating rain delays and the even more annoying refusal on the part of the Braves to lose a friggin’ game, the Phils themselves have gone down to defeat three times in their last six games—and all in painful, come-from-ahead ninth-inning fashion. The streamlined baseball death machine that is the 2011 Phillies has spouted little plumes of smoke and leaked some oil.

Yet, notwithstanding that it just sucks to lose any game you’d seemingly all but won, I’m actually not sure that the positive elements of the last week don’t significantly outweigh the downside.

Star-divide

Let’s start with the weekend’s pitching performances. Friday night’s rainstorm meant that the much-maligned Kyle Kendrick got last-minute bumped ahead 24 hours to protect Roy Oswalt’s arm; for Kendrick, the experience was probably similar to being told to taste the King’s food because something reeks of bitter almonds. But he stepped up again, throwing six strong innings to register his fourth quality start in his last five. (In the other, he went 5.2 innings and allowed three runs). Overall, in his last five games (three starts), Kendrick has held opponents to a collective .213/.263/.348 line… and, stunningly given the entirety of his previous career, he’s struck out 18 batters in his last 24.1 innings (after fanning just 28 in his first 73 frames this season).  As has often been true in his career, he’s pitching well ahead of his peripherals… but the underlying performance too is better, as indicated by his 4.42 FIP. Whether serving as a semi-reliable bullpen option or a true "sixth starter" employed to minimize the wear on the better arms, a high-performing Kendrick is a real asset for the Phillies… particularly if they could unload him for something more useful this winter.

A much bigger deal from the weekend, though, was what Oswalt did when he finally got to pitch Saturday. This was the guy the club traded for in 2010: low/mid-90s fastball with superior movement and a selection of devilish offspeed pitches he could locate pretty much at will. The Nationals aren’t an easy offense to shut down: five of the guys in the lineup facing Oswalt that night have double-digit homers, and Ryan Zimmerman—the only Washington player who had a particularly strong game—has nine. He held them off the board for eight innings, firing nine strikeouts. With the arguable exception of the Diamondbacks, the National League clubs the Phils are mostly likely to see in the playoffs can run pretty good pitchers out there early in a series to oppose Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, and maybe even Cole Hamels: the GiantsTim Lincecum and Matt Cain, the BrewersZack Greinke and Shaun Marcum and Yovanni Gallardo, Jair Jurrjens and Tim Hudson and Tommy Hanson of the Braves. No team, though, has a fourth starter who matches up well with Oswalt. In a tough series, that could be a decisive advantage.

Roy Halladay’s performance Sunday was fairly standard stuff for a non-masterpiece from the Doc: he struggled a bit early, settled down, got a lead, and in the normal course of things he probably would have wound up going seven or eight and left the team in position to win. Again, though, the rain foiled those plans, and Charlie Manuel decided this presented a good opportunity to see what newly recalled Michael Schwimer could do. A longtime favorite of the Phillies’ online community for his accessibility to fans and the cerebral approach he takes toward his craft, Schwimer saw his debut get off to a rough start as Danny Espinosa welcomed him to the majors with a solo homer that tied the game at 3. All he did after that was retire the next eight Washington hitters in a row, striking out four including Ian Desmond, Rick Ankiel and Zimmerman consecutively in the seventh. Schwimer was one more Antonio Bastardo strike from earning the win Sunday; more importantly, he might have taken a first big step toward pitching himself into playoff roster consideration.

All this good stuff doesn’t ease the visceral sting of the losses themselves: Halladay’s bad pitch in the ninth to Lyle Overbay last Tuesday, Ryan Madson’s inability to finish off Nats hitters Friday night, Bastardo’s one mistake in the ninth and Brad Lidge’s many in the tenth to finish the Washington series. But even there, Manuel can take lessons if he heeds them: Doc probably shouldn’t have been out there to start the ninth against Arizona, and unless things go unexpectedly awry, Madson shouldn’t pitch three straight days again until October, if need be then.

It's time to worry when a team is losing games owing to structural weaknesses or severe personnel deficiencies that talented opponents can exploit: a badly unbalanced lineup, starters who can't go more than five or six innings, having Jose Mesa as your closer. These aren't problems for the 2011 Phillies, a great team that's absorbed some recent painful but fluky losses. The bigger deal might be what they're finding out, win or lose--about John Mayberry Jr.'s  progress, Oswalt's health, Schwimer's talent and resilience, and Kendrick's versatility. As the regular season hopefully winds down to a pleasantly meaningless final few weeks, these are probably the things to watch. 

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yay Schwimer.

but still sick about both losses. Ick.

by Wet Luzinski on Aug 21, 2011 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh cool, so Schwimmer is the pitcher who did the in game pitch by pitch thought process. I forgot all about him and that piece.

by j reed on Aug 21, 2011 11:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Unhappy at the loss, but still a happy fan.

I actually fell asleep sometime after the gNats tied it back up, so I don’t know exactly what happened, just that it was a HBP walk-off. Kind of made me chortle a little bit.

I’m glad the rain delay happened, because it forced Chuckles to shorten Halladay’s day considerably. Any which way the man can get some rest while still in the middle of the division race (we still have a good deal of breathing room) is okay with me. I’ve still got faith in the bullpen to get the job done.

It was encouraging to see Schwimer do so well after giving up the tying run.

A few tough losses in the past couple of games, but I like where the Phillies are.

by Sisko on Aug 21, 2011 11:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I LOVE it.

This gonna be his version of the “hold onto your butts”…?

by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Aug 22, 2011 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The loss yesterday was worth it in the long run for that nickname alone

25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark

by Joecatz on Aug 22, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Manuel can take lessons if he heeds them:

And there in lies the problem. Charlie is either incapable or unwilling to take lessons from the events that unfolded in front of him.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Aug 22, 2011 7:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Or maybe, the problem is that all of us expect him to learn lessons that are not really there, and the lesson of the past six games is on us, not him.

- Halladay was at 96 pitches through 8 and had struck out the side in the eighth. There was no way of knowing when he went out there that bad things would happen, and even with two on and no outs, the chance he would wriggle out of it. Perha

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 22, 2011 8:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bad iPhone... Continuing here.

Perhaps it was not the bad decision that we all want to make it out to be- How was Charlie to know that Halladay would serve up a meatball- he has completed a whole lot of games in his career, and won a lot of them.

- This is far from the first time Madson has pitched three games in a row (and he pitched four in a row a couple of times last year). For whatever reason he had a bad night, but a lot of that was bad luck from the BABIP slut- bloops and bleeders leading up to a bases loaded meatball. He will let Madson close games again (and he should), and that will probably include 3 in a row if the team needs it. And that is not necessarily a bad decision.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 22, 2011 8:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nobody blamed Charlie for Madson’s blown save. And as far as the Halladay CG loss, what reason was there to leave him in AFTER he gave up Overbay’s double? That’s on Charlie.

Might as well just hand them over.

by All ur Aces R Belong to Us on Aug 22, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is far from the first time Madson has pitched three games in a row

Exactly my point…it isn’t the first time, which shows that Charlie isn’t learning the lessons that are there to learn. He has done the same thing to Lidge in the past.

How about the PH/PR stunt he pulled on Tuesday when he used Mayberry to PR and Gload to hit, in fact, his continued insistence that he use Gload at all is Charlie showing that he is incapable of learning lessons.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Aug 22, 2011 9:17 AM EDT reply actions  

you’re simply assuming that there’s an obvious lesson to be had in all of this; there isn’t

are you saying relievers should never pitch three games in a row? based on what?

I think it’s a bit clearer that Tuesday’s PH/PR move was wrong, but, again, Gload either is available to play, or he’s too injured and should be cut… on the other hand, Mayberry struck me as a much better option to PH yesterday, after Martinez’s single, with runners still on base. Especially since Gload has looked even worse in the several at bats he’s had since Tuesday, including in his start the other day.

by yolacrary on Aug 22, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reply fail on my part.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Aug 22, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Food for Thought

From 2009- Present:

Pitching coming off a resting day (115 appearances): Madson has given up 0 ER 93 times (81%), 1 ER 14 times (12%), 2 ER 3 times (3%), and 3 ER 5 times (4%)

Back to back days (46 appearances): 0 ER 36 times (78%), 1 ER 7 times (15%), and 2 ER 3 times (7%)

Three in a row (15 appearances): 0 ER 11 times (73%), 1 ER twice (13%), 3 ER once (7%), and 6 ER once (7%)

Madson had one appearance on a fourth consecutive day, and gave up 0 earned runs.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 22, 2011 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

My point being that while there is a certain level of potential diminished returns, Madson has pitched well a whole lot more often than he hasn’t, even on a third consecutive day of pitching. No real lesson to be learned here.

I do agree with you about Gload.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 22, 2011 12:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Thanks for the info.

I actually looked up the numbers earlier but then got pulled into a project at work so I couldn’t finish.

To me, it’s not just about performance with Madson, or any reliever really. It’s about risk. Clearly you have shown that Madson is not that much different on the 3rd day of a 3 straight day set as he is on the 1st, performance wise. But body wise, and jreed could tell you more about this than I ever could. But the human body is not made to go through the rigors of pitching back to back to back. There is a reason it rarely happens and that’s because it shouldn’t. Warming up in the pen and not being used is just about as damaging to the body as warming up and being used in a game. That’s why when you exercise you aren’t supposed to work the same muscles on back to back days. It’s the same principal. To that end, if you are Charlie and you say that “it’s his(Halladays) game to finish.” then you shouldn’t bother getting Madson or Bastardo up. Either you warm them up because you intend to use them, or you don’t. From what Charlie said, his plan all along was to let Halladay finish the game. And going into the 9th he had every right to do so. But the second he got into trouble and the relievers which were already warmed up were then bypassed, that was when Charlie screwed up.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Aug 22, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand your argument about risk, and I definitely would try to avoid usong Madson unnecessarily, but I can’t say that if the situation is three close games in a row that it is not an appropriate direction to go at times. Another thing that Charlie and Dubee maybe need to think about is the best way to use Bastardo and Madson- both of them being unavailable on the same day leaves the bullpen very short and lacking a strong finisher to hold a lead late.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 22, 2011 1:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nice write up

I couldn’t agree more. Especially glad to see someone around here give some recognition to the value Kendrick has provided this year. While the normal Kendrick bashing is generally well deserved, he’s been a useful player this year. But you are right — it would be nice if the improved performance led to some sort of trade.

by MJW on Aug 22, 2011 9:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Kendrick

As a 4/5 starter, I am not thrilled, especially now that I’ve been spoiled. But looking at the history of the Phillies and 4/5 starters, he’s not the worst. He’s not even close to the worst.

I am a Kendrick basher, but I am coming around and appreciating his utility:

1. He doesn’t (to my knowledge) bitch about being bounced around to different roles.
2. He is very helpful to have as a spot starter, and he isn’t awful in this role
3. He is useful as a long man

He is simply a control pitcher without swing/miss stuff. If he does not have his control, and walks people or lets balls up, his stuff is not nasty enough that hitters will miss it. He just can’t make mistakes. And he’s human, and he does make mistakes.

As long as the Phillies use him appropriately (maybe as a 5/6, with “6” being “spot starter/long man”), he has decent value at a reasonable cost. He’s also much better against RHB (not surprisingly). He’s pretty young still. I’m used to him being around and think of him as fairly long-tenured (and he is), but he is only 26 years old.

When he is pressed into duty in a role he is not that good at (a regular starter), he fails. When he plays in a more comfortable role, such as spot starter/long-man, he succeeds. I think that starting him against heavy RHB teams might also help out his chances of success.

Any failures he has as a regular starter are not an indictment of who he is as a person or a pitcher. Those are more a management issue of misusing tools (See: Romero, J.C.).

Kendrick has put up 1.4 WAR this year and 2.4 for what amounts to 4 years (in 2009, he did not play much at all in MLB). His ERA+ for his career is 95+. If that seems awful, take a look at a team like the Reds — think the might like 100 IP of 119 ERA+ ball this year?

I don’t see him getting better all of a sudden, but as long as nobody pretends he is something he isn’t and he is used the right way, he can be the kind of guy on a 24 man roster who can make himself useful over the course of a season. A cog, not a motor. But there’s a place for that, especially on a team where there are already a lot of motors.

Why look'st thou so?' -"With my crossbow
I shot the Albatross."

by RememberthePhitans on Aug 22, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It’s anecdotal stuff, but it seems like Kendrick has turned that little comeback two-seamer into a real out-pitch against left-handed batters.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 22, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

…a team where there are already a lot of motors.

I like it.

by Phrozen on Aug 22, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

You’ve captured the essence of Kendrick quite well. Still I can’t help hoping, given his youth, that maybe he can make enough improvements to be a little more valuable either on the field or as trade bait.

by MJW on Aug 22, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That something is defensible doesn’t mean it should be defended. Neither Halladay nor Madson should be used as heavily as they’ve been given the team’s current circumstances.

by dajafi on Aug 22, 2011 10:36 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Amen

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Aug 22, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, fair enough; I don’t have a problem with this. For me, the main argument against having Halladay even start the 9th is the desire to keep him as fresh as possible going into October (on the other hand, what do any of us really know about what keeps a guy like Halladay fresh? are we so sure that not allowing him to pitch out of his own jams—when he comes into the inning with low pitch-count—has no negative side effects? I mean, it’s all guess work, to one degree or another).

I’d also say that few of the arguments seem to be from the perspective of “given the team’s current circumstances”. We have a lot of conflicting arguments, many of which seem to converge on the idea that Charlie did several things objectively wrong. Except we can’t quite agree on which things they are, which is just one factor telling me that the certitude with which such arguments are made is unjustified.

by yolacrary on Aug 22, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love the commentary about “given the circumstances” with a month and a half to go- while they are practically a sure thing, there are no guarantees, and playing not to lose too many may lose the Phillies the division, and the homefield advantage that comes with it. Things are good, but staying hungry is vital.

"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."

by dannijd on Aug 22, 2011 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No team, though, has a fourth starter who matches up well with Oswalt. In a tough series, that could be a decisive advantage.

Brandon Beachy

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 22, 2011 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

sure, but he’s offset by Derek Lowe

by yolacrary on Aug 22, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

As well as the massive advantage the Phillies 1-2-3 starters would have over the Braves’.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 22, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure what part of “no team has a 4th starter that can match up with Oswalt” has to do with how starters 1-3 match up.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 22, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the “massive” advantage of your 1-3 over ours isn’t quite as large as you think it is.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 22, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh huh. And Jurrjens is in line for the Cy Young, is he?

by Phrozen on Aug 22, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

No he isn’t.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 22, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it is.

Might as well just hand them over.

by All ur Aces R Belong to Us on Aug 22, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

The numbers say otherwise.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Aug 22, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The results do not.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 22, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which results are those?

by phatj on Aug 22, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

WINZZZ

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 22, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which must be the only thing he’s looking at, because it’s certainly not run differential (146 for the Phillies, +67 for the Braves) or ERA (Jurrjens, the top Brave, is behind Halladay, Hamels, Lee, and Worley) or K/BB (Beachy, behind Halladay, Lee, and Hamels). The Braves are good, but their rotation isn’t at the Phillies’ level. The bullpen is probably better (I’d take the trio of Venters, O’Flaherty, and Kimbrel over Bastardo, Kendrick [or Stutes], and Madson), but the starters aren’t quite at the same level. Jurrjens or Hudson would slot in as a #4 in the Phils rotation, Beachy as a #5 (like Worley, except I think Beachy has slightly better peripherals and worse results), and Hanson or Minor would probably be in Lehigh or the bullpen. Lowe…well, son, there comes a time you gotta take responsibility and put ’im down.

Bob.

by The Dark on Aug 22, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Incorrect results.

by Phrozen on Aug 22, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Check the standings.

by Phrozen on Aug 22, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Halladay, Lee, and Hamels are three of the top four pitchers in the league in: WAR, FIP, xFIP, SIERA.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Aug 22, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t forget 1-2-3 in strikeouts per walk.

by Phrozen on Aug 22, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys can have Lowe, if you’d like. Just give us a bag of Big League Chew in return.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 22, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Liberty Media has to eat the contract, though.

Why look'st thou so?' -"With my crossbow
I shot the Albatross."

by RememberthePhitans on Aug 22, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

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