How the Other Half Loses: Phillies 5, Marlins 3
by dajafi on Sep 2, 2011 10:55 PM EDT
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There was a time when I loathed and feared the Florida Marlins. Say the names Juan Pierre and Luis Castillo in the same sentence, and I'll flinch like someone's about to punch me--because those two speedy little bastards did, repeatedly, in 2003. Jeff Conine's brief stint with the 2006 Phillies was morally wrenching for me; for years I had to be restrained from kicking old guys who look like Jack McKeon--and let's face it, a lot of old guys look like Jack McKeon.
But watching tonight's game, between a Phillies team headed for its greatest regular season ever and cruising toward a playoff spot and a Marlins club buried in last place, missing signature players Hanley Ramirez and Josh Johnson, and playing in front of a few thousand fans at most--among whom, by the sound of it, about half were cheering for the Phils--in an utterly charmless stadium made for football, I realized I have absolutely no hate for the Marlins right now; just pity. It has to be sheer misery playing for that team, and a whole other level of existential horror to follow them as a fan.
Losses like tonight's won't help much, though a determined optimist could find something positive in the performance of 21 year-old rookie lefty Brad Hand. After allowing a leadoff triple to Shane Victorino, who came around to score on a Placido Polanco sacrifice fly, Hand didn't surrender another hit until the fifth. That hit, though, was a two-run homer by John Mayberry, Jr, which followed an Emilio Bonifacio error that had put Hunter Pence on first. The bomb gave the Phillies a 3-2 lead that they didn't relinquish; Mayberry drove in another run an inning later on a sacrifice fly, and after Florida pulled within 4-3 in the bottom of the sixth, the Phils added another in the seventh after a sequence of Marlins miscues. Victorino led off the inning with a single and went to second when Mike Stanton couldn't field the ball cleanly. He moved to third on a Polanco groundout and scored on a Ryan Webb wild pitch.
A week after beating Roy Oswalt in Philadelphia (and possibly reopening the Oswalt-vs.-Vance Worley debate concerning the playoff rotation), the Marlins looked like they might smack around Li'l Roy again in south Florida. Five of the first seven Marlins hitters reached base, and they tied the score at 1 in the first when Bonifacio scored on a Greg Dobbs double play. Florida went ahead 2-1 in the third when Omar Infante led off with a double and scored on Stanton's groundout two batters later. From then on, though, Oswalt found a groove, retiring nine straight until Jose Lopez homered with two outs in the sixth to make it 4-3. He finished the night with seven strikeouts in his 6.1 innings.
The bullpen did the rest, with Michael Stutes, Antonio Bastardo and Ryan Madson recording the last eight outs. The win brought the Phillies to 88-46 on the season, putting the team 42 games over .500 for the first time in the team's 129 year history. Meanwhile, the Marlins absorbed another defeat on the way to another losing season, waiting with hope and impatience at the new stadium in which they'll take residence next spring, and from which they'll attempt to again merit hate and despair on the part of other teams' fans.
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I hate to say it....
But the Phils are not 42 games over .500.
They are 21 games over .500.
Who is with me?
by 5FOR1TRADE on Sep 2, 2011 11:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'm not, because that's not how baseball does it
To calculate how many games “over .500” a team is, you subtract their losses from their wins. 88-46 = 42. I see where you are coming from, but that’s not how baseball does it.
Writer at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
And the way baseball does it makes sense when you look at it another way- the “over” number is the number of losses necessary to drag the team back down to .500.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Sep 3, 2011 12:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Really, who the fuck cares? If the Phillies are only 21 games over .500, the Braves are 12.5 games over .500. Nothing changes relative to the rest of the league, or relative to any team in the history of baseball, so what the fuck does it matter?
The Good Phight, NotGraphs, fun!
Eh, fuck ‘em both. I haven’t given up on the cubit, yet.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Sep 3, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sooo you’re retarded. If the Phillies lose 21 straight games they’ll still be above .500. Therefore you are extremely wrong.
If they had lost 21 games that they had won then yes they would be .500. But they won those games so therefore you are retarded.
I liked to say that.
The Jruth shall be told.
Please don’t use “retarded” as an insult. It makes me cringe.
Let's go eat...a triceratops. /velociraptor'd
by LeepinLizardz on Sep 3, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. As someone who works with students with disabilities, some of which are mentally retarded, this is incredibly disrespectful.
"My grandmom's favorite grandson, ask my grandmom" --Rone
by layout ultimate on Sep 3, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I stand corrected. I had read 22 yesterday. I guess it was 21, then.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Sep 2, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Prior to tonight, that is.
A proud member of the Church of BaseBa'al
by WanderingMoses on Sep 2, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Sep 3, 2011 3:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe it’s the beer talking, but I wanna see mayberry in the everyday lineup for a while.
Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose
by TheOrangeCone on Sep 2, 2011 11:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don’t mind the platoon.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
The beer is also evident in my inability to capitalize Mayberry.
Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose
by TheOrangeCone on Sep 2, 2011 11:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also misspelling his name, *Yayberry or *Stayberry are acceptable spellings.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Sep 3, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they'll never go away.
It's only gonna get funner
by VanceinmyPants on Sep 3, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
what about promoting him from Stayberry to More-Play-Berry.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Sep 3, 2011 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I like ISO-Berry as well… hope he stays ISO-Berry and never becomes K-Berry.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Sep 3, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally, my favorites thus far have been Put the ball in play-berry and my own creation, No Way-Berry.
Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose
by TheOrangeCone on Sep 3, 2011 1:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually, given how often he hits home runs, put the ball in play-berry seems a bit odd.
by philsandthrills on Sep 3, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s more like Crush-the-ball-berry… but that might be too cumbersome. Smash-berry. He could be Dinger-berry… but that sounds too much like something gross…
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Sep 3, 2011 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t either, although I kind of like the idea of getting something of a look at Mayberry against right handed pitching just to see if he ia starter material or platoon/bench bat material down the road.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Sep 3, 2011 12:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Damn, this team is good. I’ve been waiting my entire life for a team like this! I can’t wait to babble about this season incoherently in the old folk’s home 50 years from now.
What kind of plane is it? Oh, it's a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big ol' Tylenol.
by doubleh on Sep 2, 2011 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Oh, my grandkids are gonna be GOOD AND SICK of hearing crazy old grandpa’s legends of “His Phils back in the day”….
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Sep 2, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I just had a thought about that window. In today’s game the Red Sox and Yankees do not appear to have any thoughts about their window of opportunity closing, ever. What if the Phillies are in that same category?
by phillyinportland on Sep 3, 2011 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't happen...
In order to qualify for that title, you must play boring, over long chronically televised games in the AL East.
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Sep 3, 2011 3:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Btw, TCU erased that big league and lost by 2. Lols were had
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 3, 2011 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
That photo is so adorably SMUG...
Rube would be proud.
If he got proud, which he doesn’t. So I guess, rather, he’s be smugly-indifferent to that little girl’s smugness.
…unless a cute little girl’s smugness – caused by the team he’s smugly assembled – feeds his own, making him even more Smug….
- UH-OH – I’m getting caught in a causality loop. Time to punch out.
.
’Night, all!
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Sep 3, 2011 12:04 AM EDT reply actions
J.C. Ramirez
6.2 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 6 K, RBI single
27 BF, 6 GB, 0 LD, 12 FB (5 pop)
David Buchanan
3.0 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 3 K, 0 HR
19 BF, 6 GB, 5 LD, 3 FB (1 pop)
Trevor May
4.0 IP, 2 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 K, 0 HR
17 BF, 2 GB, 2 LD, 3 FB, 1 SH
Lendy Castillo
4.0 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 4 K, 1 HR
17 BF, 5 GB, 0 LD, 7 FB (1 pop)
Perci Garner
6.0 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 7 K
22 BF, 6 GB, 3 LD, 5 FB
Joe! Where was he?
Let's go eat...a triceratops. /velociraptor'd
by LeepinLizardz on Sep 3, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Link fail: http://youtu.be/OPjG_Tle8PU
by phillyinportland on Sep 3, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Domingo Santana doubled and walked today, bringing his hitting streak to 10 games. During the streak, he’s 18 for 41, 4 2B, 4 HR, 3 BB, 9 K, .439/.500/.829. Since the trade (61 AB), he’s .393/.464/.705.
Should of kept. Except for serious
by philsandthrills on Sep 3, 2011 1:36 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Could be a case where the PTBNL ends up being the best part of the trade. Of course, we won’t know that for sure for a long time, but it wouldn’t be surprising.
Just when the bad taste in my mouth was starting to wear out.
The 2003 Marlins were irritating, but my hatred of that organization goes all the way back to their founding, ever since they stupidly decided to name themselves “Florida”.
Wayne Huizenga is a good representative for a lot of things that are wrong with America today.
Sounds better than Miami or Orlando...
If you hate “Florida” then you must hate the Carolina Panthers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Minnesota Twins and the Colorado Rockies.
Speaking of the Rockies… I hate that mascot.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
and
New England Patriots, Minnesota Vikings,
by ChillBillinChina on Sep 3, 2011 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
and
the Minnesota Wild, Indiana Pacers, New Jersey Nets, New Jersey Devils, Carolina Hurricanes and the Florida Panthers.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
But unlike in those cases, there’s actually another pro team in the state of Florida. And yes, I know the Marlins predated the Rays, but at the very least, there were other plausible pro sports towns in the state of Florida (which you can’t say about any of the other examples).
It would be kind of (though not exactly) like the Sixers building themselves an arena in King of Prussia and renaming themselves the “Pennsylvania 76ers”
I live in florida, and hate the naem FLORIDA marlins. The reason they went with Florida, instead of Miami is twofold, though.
1. They wanted to incorporate the ft.Lauderdale/hollywood/palm Beach folks, and felt that caliin the team the MIAMI… would be exclusive in a way… (never bought into that myself)
2. When the fans chose the name MARLINS, they did not want to associate the team with a former minor league franchise, the Miami marlins. (Don’t buy into that either)
Regardless, thems the reasons.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
1. It does not sound better than Miami or Orlando.
2. I do dislike the Panthers’ and Rockies’ names.
3. Ultimately, the reason why the choice of “Florida” was so stupid and offensive is that the Marlins don’t actually represent the state of Florida. They represent one specific metro area on one end of the state and everybody knows it. The reason why “Minnesota” teams are OK is that the metro area they represent is anchored by two cities, not one – naming the teams after both cities would be too wordy and the metro area is right in the middle of the state and the biggest one in the state anyway, so “Minnesota” is legitimately the least bad option. Even the Rockies can at least legitimately argue that they sort of represent their whole state for that reason, plus “Colorado” is an integral part of the name they chose, like “Buffalo Bills.” The Marlins don’t have any excuse whatsoever.
Add to this that I suspect this was all motivated by Wayne Huizenga having an ’80s-vintage right-wing anti-urban attitude. He wanted his teams to embrace the suburbs and leave the city behind. He refused to name the team after Miami even though a poll showed that the people throughout the area wanted him to.
I am surprised no one has brought up the Texas Rangers. In complete honesty their are times when I think it strange that such a large metro area like Dallas doesn’t have an MLB team.
Rangers are sort of like the Rockies in that a “Texas Ranger” is an actual thing, so the Texas is integral to their name. I think they also didn’t want to slight either city in DFW since the ballpark is actually between the D and the FW. I don’t think that’s a good reason though, since Dallas is clearly the more important city, unlike Minnesota where the two cities are right next to each other and are really basically the same city.
Anyway, I don’t like it but it isn’t as terrible as the Marlins.
I guess the Marlins got your request, Taco.
Flordia Marlins will be the Miami Marlins next year.
http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/070524/story7.shtml
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
Andrew Carpenter waived and claimed by Padres.
Jim Salisbury says the Phillies may have done that to make room for Aaron Rowand.
Rowand, who played for the Phils in 2006 and 2007, is a favorite of manager Charlie Manuel and the club has had a longstanding interest in bringing him back. … If the Phils make an addition before Blanton is ready to be activated, they would have to waive another player to clear a spot for Blanton on the 40-man roster.
Wouldn’t upset me. Rowand was a great player for the team. Can he be taught third?
Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose
by TheOrangeCone on Sep 3, 2011 1:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Rowand was an OK player for the team four years ago. He’s now shot. I fully expected Carpenter to leave the organization in the offseason, but cutting anyone to make room for Rowand’s corpse is a bad move.
by taco pal on Sep 3, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough. But I must ask: why do you think the roster spot was cleared?
Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose
by TheOrangeCone on Sep 3, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
To create room on the 40 for Blanton to return?
"Valdez can pitch, Lee can hit... and pigs can fly."
by dannijd on Sep 3, 2011 4:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s easier than creating room on the bench for him.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Sep 3, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
The Return of Blanton: Cookies’ Revenge.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Sep 3, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
The Phillies would be better getting bullpen help.
Never call a Phillies, Eagles, Flyers or Sixers fans, a band-wagoner. It is disrespectful. We have suffered agony through the years. Philadelphians should be jovial for their teams' success.
They needed to clear room one way or the other, TP, whether it was for Blanton or another call up. I’m just surprised it was Drew and not Perez.
Dude never got his fair shot, IMO.
as far as Rowand gies, not sure where he fits in next year, but I’m okay with taking a flyer on the guy, since San Fran picks up all his salary next season. Essentially it costs 1 month of the league minimium, and you have control of him for free the rest of the way, until close to the end of spring training, to see if he makes the team.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
Yeah, But...
Assuming Bowker repaces Gload next year, he saves you 1.5 million from gload, Rowand saves you about 1.5 million bucks in relation to Francisco.
Thats 3 million bucks less in payroll, for arguably the same production. Its really not a bad move, as long as Charlie doesnt get any ideas about Rowand getting substantial playing time over brown/Mayberry in LF.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
also
rowand is still a hell of a defensive player and can still run. two areas where we lack depth from the bench. the fact that hes a natural CF makes it even sweeter, especially if Mayberry’s PT increases, especially given Vic’s penchant to injury and time on the DL just about every season.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
yeah, Brotherly Glove made the same arguments you make here; they’re good points… I just wish it weren’t Rowand!
what I really like about the idea of signing Rowand, is that it gives up payroll flexibility to take the bench money spent on Gload and Francisco and use it to get a more competent utilty infielder, or take it and use it toward a deal for rollins or a Hamels extension.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
This all makes sense, but I’m just not sold given the current (and future) roster construction. Mayberry’s already on hand as a backup CF, and Francisco is twice the hitter Rowand is at this point (Rowand’s .231/.277/.363 over the last two seasons in 708 PA). And it’s not like he’s the kind of pinch runner who’s going to swipe a bag.
No harm in taking a flyer, I guess, but I agree with TP that he’s shot.
I think the other thing to consider is that assuming we do take that flyer, its essentially only costing us a 40 man spot, and 70 grand guaranteed to take a flyer on him through the majority of spring training. If he looks likehes got something left, it’s a 450K gamble, if not, you release him and someone else gambles.
The additional downside is that signing him is one less spot available for a rule 5 protection guy, and another DFA for Blantons spot next week, plus anyone they call up not on the 40 man.
Which is another reason why I’m less certain we see kratz in September, and I’d be shocked if Aumont gets a call up.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
I prefer Pods
When there were injuries and the slump was king
and ruled the regression
When there were dead bats and the whiffs were almost deafening
Out of the smugness
Salvation, scrappy and bunts and steals
Twas the RAJ Creation
Twas the terrible WAR bench
Twas the marginal upgrade
Wavier was searching for his wire
And he looked and saw that Pods would do.
I look to his stats
and his skill set is clear
I look at his ISO and see what I fear
Tis the RAJ Creation
Twas an absolute save face
Twas the plummeting homers and the lacking of runs
And I looked and I saw that Pods will do.
Tis the seminal Podsednik
Tis ultimate small baller.
Marry me, j reed.
Let's go eat...a triceratops. /velociraptor'd
by LeepinLizardz on Sep 5, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Carpenter pitching in that canyon in San Diego could be pretty good.
by Wet Luzinski on Sep 3, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
They needed to clear room one way or the other, TP, whether it was for Blanton or another call up.
But if they sign Rowand, they need to clear twice as much room.
true, But (and you know I’m as big of a Carpenter fan as anyone) Carpenter was gonna go. We knew that. And if it means losing Juan Perez, so be it. They were both short for the 40 man regardless.
It’s the next guy who I’m interested in, if they decide to call up Pods, or Kratz.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
they’re testing the fences, systematically
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 3, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Aw
Former Phillie Prospect, Carlos Carrasco may need Tommy John.
He is a guy who I mention off the top of my head as a recent phillie prospect that is doing something on the new team. Granted, I love Cliff Lee = awesome, and so was that initial trade.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
He was doing surprisingly good at mid-season. The last time I looked Lou Marson was hitting .218…
I eat sentimentality for breakfast, but stats stop me dead in my tracks
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Sep 3, 2011 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I was at the game
man, was it DEAD at that stadium. I got there a little late, and picked up two tickets for 9 bucks each, and Pops and I made our way down to about ten rows up on the first base line by the 4th inning.
You could here people cheering from the other side of the stadium. it was that dead. I DVR’d the game at home, and anxiously await to see if I can hear myself scream “Stayberry rules” after he hit the HR. I have a feeling I might be able to.
I just realized that that was the last time I’ll ever have to endure a game at that crappy stadium. Ever. There is no sentimentality lost. Its really a crappy place to watch a baseball game, even more so when you can see tyhe football lines still on the field in September.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
when do we know if cliff lee is named pitcher of the month for august (assuming he gets that title)?
Do you have money on it? Or just idle curiosity?
by Wet Luzinski on Sep 3, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Was KK even at the game last night? At one point in the broadcast they showed a bullpen availability thingy and KK’s name was in parenthesis. The announcers suggested this meant he was the ‘long man’ which struck me as an absurd explanation. More likely he was unavailable. At the time I thought it was because they were considering starting him in the near future, but perhaps he wasn’t even there.
John Yayberry Jr. really wants me to get his shirsey, apparently. And it’s working.
"What's gonna happen is that you jerk off the ball. You almost want to let this guy here jam you, and if it comes, it comes." Gary 'Sarge' Matthews
I’d buy one.
Time is not made of lines. It is made of circles. That is why clocks are round.
-Michael J Caboose
by TheOrangeCone on Sep 3, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this season is the "World Series or Bust" season...
But I’m saying right now that the 2011 Phillies are better than the 2008 Phillies whether they win the World Series or not.
In fact, I think that the 2010 Phillies as a whole were better than the 2008 Phillies for sheer perseverance alone. Yeah, they dropped the ball during the playoffs, but I still think they were better.
woo hoo
Come join the party with those of us who appreciate 1976 and 1977. We’re over in the corner drinking Schmidt’s Light.
We’ll show you our 35 year old scars. They’re in the same spot where you kids get them newfangled butt tatoos.
25.8/106 "Winter is coming" -Eddard Stark
By the way, were the Phillies favored in 1977? My impression has always been that as terrible as the outcome of that series was, it wasn’t necessarily an “upset” or anything since the late ’70s Dodgers also were some pretty great teams. But that could be wrong.
I imagine they weren’t anywhere close to being favored in ’76 since they were up against the Big Red Machine.
The 3 S-es of Swill.
Schiltz, Schaefer and Schmidt.
by j reed on Sep 3, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I remember those names. And the big one on all the Phillie broadcasts for a time was Ballantine’s. “Hey, get your cold beer. Get your Ballantine’s, Ballantine’s Beer.”
by phillyinportland on Sep 4, 2011 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions
“Schaefer is the one beer to have when you’re having more than one.”
Jingles you just can’t use anymore.
Talk about sneakiy self-reflexivity. Schaefer has a 3 nBAR (Number of Beers Above Replacement it takes to get drunk).
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