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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Cole Hamels, Phillies Avoid Arbitration, Agree to One Year, $15 Million Deal

The Phillies and left-hander Cole Hamels agreed to a one-year, $15 million contract today, avoiding salary arbitration and kicking the can down the road on efforts to keep the homegrown 28 year old in Philadelphia beyond 2012. Per Todd Zolecki of MLB.com, the agreement was reached prior to the Phillies and Hamels' camp exchanging arbitration figures, something of a good sign that there's communication and a good faith meeting of the minds, which may bode well for future negotiations. Hamels earned $9.5 million in 2011.

Hamels is coming off the best season of his Major League career. His 2.79 ERA was eighth best in the National League, and his 4.41 strikeout-to-walk ratio was fifth. His 3.03 SIERA was also fifth in the league, behind only teammates Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, Cy Young Award winning Clayton Kershaw, and former Cy Young winner Zack Greinke.

The agreement leaves only Hunter Pence and Wilson Valdez as the Phillies' outstanding arbitration cases.

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Meh about Hamels or meh about the one-year deal?

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

The one-year deal. Only Pence’s arbitration case remains to be settled, and I’m a little bit concerned they’re negotiating a multi-year deal that takes him a couple years beyond arbitration (which was going to be expensive anyway). And I believe Hamels is far more valuable to this club than Pence.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 17, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s 10 yards for failing to re-size picture

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, what?

I think everyone should be bilateral coordinated.

by BIBTD on Jan 17, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s too big and isn’t collapsible. Needs a subject line.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I got that part..

the 10 yard bit threw me off though.

I think everyone should be bilateral coordinated.

by BIBTD on Jan 17, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

So should it be 5, or 15?

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

How about half the distance to the goal?

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 17, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

But is it an automatic first down?

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Shouldn’t we be using baseball terms… like, I don’t know, a strike?

by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 17, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

But arguing balls and strikes is supposed to be an automatic ejection.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless you are Tony La Russa

by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 17, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Then you win World Series.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 17, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

FWIW, the Pence stands alone in terms of outstanding cases, as Zolecki tweets that they got Valdez settled. I saw it on MLBTR as a 930K salary.

As per Hamels, I think this is generally positive news, if only because of WC’s point about the painlessness of the contract process. If for nothing else than the pangs of seeing him elsewhere — as well as, of course, him being a good pitcher and all — I’m definitely holding out hope for the eventual extension.

by Trev223 on Jan 17, 2012 1:01 PM EST reply actions  

they have to know that this is the last year they can keep Valdez or Kendrick on, right?

by yolacrary on Jan 17, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

You’d think so anyway. Especially in Valdez’s case, while I’m not as big of a Galvis believer as some, by 2013, you’d expect Freddy to fill the middle infielder off the bench role.

by Trev223 on Jan 17, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think this is necessarily the last year they can keep Kendrick. Maybe 85%, but not 100%.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Have the Phillies non-tendered anyone since Amaro took over? I’m not sure he knows that it is even an option.

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Amaro’s vice is actually fear of the arbitration process. It’s tendering, not nontendering, that he has trouble doing.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Has he actually gone to an arbitration hearing with anyone? Or is that your point?

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m erring more to the side of this being positive news than negative regarding Hamels. As mentioned previously by others, a one year deal doesn’t necessarily mean that they arent working towards a multi year in season deal that would start in 2013, and doing it as much to stay within the lux tax parameters as anything else, based on the AAV rules. In essence, this could just be creative posturing on both sides.

The fairness of the number too, bodes well for dialogue purposes as mentioned.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

also...

If my math is correct, payroll stands at around $155 to 157mm right now based on AAV for lux tax purposes… without a number for Pence, for 22 guaranteed (or virtually guaranteed) contracts.

SP:
Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Worley (65.5mm assuming 500k for Worley)
RP
Kendrick, Contreras, Willis, Papelbon (19mm guaranteed)

IF
Howard, Utley, Rollins, Polanco, Ruiz (55mm guaranteed)

OF
Mayberry, Victorino (9.5mm)

Bench
Valdez, Wiggington, Thome, Nix, Valdez, Schneider (6.2 to 8.2mm depending on whether we count 2m,m or 4mm for Wiggs)

I include Mayberry and Worley, obviously in that 22.

So basically we’ve got 20mm roughly to play with for Pence, and two other relievers and a bench piece ( or three relievers when Howard comes back…)

the 15mm number is a big help towards staying under the threshold.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

that’s pretty good, leaves plenty of room for a mid-season pickup

by Nikk.m on Jan 17, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

in the interest of full disclosure I’m no expert of this, I basically took the AAV’s for everyone over the lengths of their deals to figure it out. I’m sure there’s 2 to 3 mm on either side of error.

But that was my initial though as well, cause I’ve been figuring 17-20 for Hamels this season in my mind…

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Good news. I think I’m with Joecatz—loopholing away seom luxury tax.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 3:04 PM EST reply actions  

Hypothetical: Hamels 6/130 or Grienke 5/90 ?

by Nikk.m on Jan 17, 2012 3:06 PM EST reply actions  

Tough question. I’d go with Hamels, I think. Worth something extra, being part of the “homegrown core” or whathaveyou. Plus, WS MVP, hot wife, and I think he’s actually somewhat better than Greinke—maybe not $3M per year better, but it’s close.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Greinke’s wife is also hot, I believe.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.fantasybaseballdugout.com/2009/07/05/kuchar-emily-greinke-zack-wife/

its a push at best, depending on personal taste, but yeah. Hot for sure.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m of the opinion that Heidi is very overrated.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I’d agree with that.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Samsies.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m in the minority on this one, evidently.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, I don’t go for blondes usually. In my men or women. LOL.

"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn

by doubleh on Jan 17, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I just can’t stop staring at that picture.

"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."

by Borg_Queen on Jan 17, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to be manly to get your picture taken with your small fluffy white dog.

Nothing has come easy, but I guess that wouldn't be the Philadelphia way if it did come easy. - Jimmy Rollins

by SandPhlea on Jan 18, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

In a backpack, though? That’s what puts it over the top.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 18, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Groove

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 17, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Jen Utley all day and everyday.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Jan 17, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Grienke’s career lines

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1943&position=P#standard

Hamels career lines

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4972&position=P

Obviously you’re assuming that

a) Greinke would come here
b) he’d get less than Hamels on the open market
c) the “intangibles” and unknowns are a non factor….

I can’t imagine that Grienke would be available for that much of a difference, but if he was it would be a very tough call. In the end, I think I still go with Hamels, for us.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Now this, I like.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 17, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

:-)

"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."

by Borg_Queen on Jan 17, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Boggs said the Halladay and Lee deals are both fair comparables for Hamels.

What say you, taco pal?

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It occurs to me after re-reading the quote that the Halladay and Lee deals aren’t actually comparables for each other…

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing they have in common is that they are at least 20 mil/year and that’s going to be the lowest I think Hamels will accept.

by Nikk.m on Jan 17, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i guess if you think AAV, that’s a fair point. It just struck me as funny to think that Hamels agent wants a deal somewhere between $60 million and $137 million. Way to narrow it down, buddy.

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Halladay is way underpaid.

I think once you get over 20 per for Cole, you get into dangerous waters.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Halladay is way underpaid

I did the math on this a little while ago, and at his current pace Halladay will be worth the entire guaranteed part of his contract after something like 6 or 8 starts this season.

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, that depends on the length as much as the AAV, IMO. As a fan and a fantasy GM I would have felt comfortable with a deal around 5/100 including this season. So, a 4 year, 85mm deal with a 5th year option (which would be 21 AAV) is the same thing.

And if the choice was 3/70 or 6/120? I’d be more comfortable with 3/70 myself.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I was SO hoping to see that song when I clicked the link. You sir, are awesome!

by NowWhat? on Jan 17, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed. If it wasn’t that song, I was going to be rather peeved.

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't get why you would want to do this...

What is the advantage to negotiating once, and then negotiating again in spring training? Why not get it over with and negotiate this year and a long-term extension all at once?

To me, I read this as: they tried to negotiate the long-term deal. They were too far apart to come to an agreement before arbitration. They signed a 1 year deal to avoid arb and now are going to continue again on the long-term deal. Well what the hell, Amaro? Get the thing done once and for all. What is all this waiting for spring training bs. Every day that goes by gets Cole close to free agency. To quote Teddy KGB: “Pay him. Pay dat man his money.”

by BrandonB on Jan 21, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

from MLBTR

Bob Nightengale of USA Today talked to Hamels’ agent John Boggs, who said, "We thought about just going for it, and filing for a number [of about $17 million], but we thought this was fair. Our sights are now set on free agency. At some point, we’ll talk to the Phillies about that.‘’ Noting the unpredictable nature of free agency, Boggs sang his client’s praises and added, “Pitching is something everybody will always be clamoring for. That never changes.”

Boggs is taking a stronger negotiating posture here, but I like that they accepted a ‘fair’ offer and decided not to try to squeeze out every last dime.

by Nikk.m on Jan 17, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t like this quite as much.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, lots of posturing. He’s not gonna say “Cole wants to stay in Philadelphia” and vomit up his leverage.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 17, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah like Jimmy with the “No Home Town Discount” last year.

by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

The least he could do is throw some batteries at the leverage.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, I agree… I just don’t like it as much… heh.

by yolacrary on Jan 17, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Vomit Leverage. My new imaginary band.

by j reed on Jan 18, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Apparently Detroit is about to hold a press conference to announce that VMart is out for the season with a torn ACL.

That sucks.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

Does Cleveland have a good shot to win that division this year?

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d think, all things being equal, Detroit probably has enough hitting and pitching to outlast the Tribe, and that’s before they make the adjustment for V-Mart.

It’s a false binary, but I’d probably bet on the Royals clicking on all cylinders as potential spoilers before advocating for Cleveland as favorites.

by Trev223 on Jan 17, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

its definitely better now, but on paper, before the injury Detroit looked to me like the easiest pick to win the division in the league.

Theres tons of DH options out there, though.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul

by topherstarr on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Hes actually a good fit for them in relation to other options.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

But who do they use for the other 28 days of the cycle?

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

What is this, Phillies West?

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You know there’s precedent for this kind of thing.

Actually, several.

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 18, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

So has anyone else thought that Cole, that picture in particular, looks like Inigo Montoya?

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 5:43 PM EST reply actions  

I’m waiting for him to say, “I know something you do not. I… am not lefthanded!”

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed, Cole Hamels is right handed and pitches left handed and with his eye’s closed just to make sure the games arn’t over too quickly.

by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 17, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Salisbury reporting Phils offered Pence 9 and his ask was 11.8.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 5:52 PM EST reply actions  

Based on the fact that arbitration generally privileges traditional stats, this would probably sway in Hunter’s favor, right?

by Trev223 on Jan 17, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on the comparables. Its one or the other. Personally, I think he came in a little too high to win if it gets that far. It looks more like a posture play for a long term deal.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like the differential is too narrow for them not to settle before the hearing

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Kinda my thoughts. Neither side wants to risk losing. Hell end up around 10.5ish.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

For those interested, current OF under contract making north of 11.8mm per season (AAV in parenthesis)

Crawford (20)
Kemp (20)
Tori hunter (18)
Ichiro (18)
Vernon wells (18)
Jayson werth (18)
Holliday (17)
Soriano (17)
Carlos lee (16)
Jayson bay (16)
Ryan Braun (14 becomes 20 in 2016)
Rowand (12)
Beltran (12)

It’s a virtual cacophony of bad free agent deals and extensions gone bad, plus Braun and beltrans new deal.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess holidays is ok too. And Ichiro maybe.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Kemp 20 mil is not exactly horrible.

Baseball is like Crack but better for you

by kmrblue1027 on Jan 17, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither was Crawford’s, last off-season. Let it play out a little first.

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Kemp Had a monster 10 war season. No disputing that. But 8/160 for a 28 year old who has had 1 season with an ops over .900 isn’t exactly a sure thing. That said, he probably deserves to be the highest paid OF in the game.

And sorry, but Crawford got his money because rizzo overpaid werth. It was an overpay too.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Just keep him away from Rihanna and he’ll be fine

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Crawford averaged 6.75 WAR in his two seasons before the contract. $20 mill doesn’t seem so unreasonable to me.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

If you look at it like that, sure.

You could also say, though, that he averaged 4 war from 2003 to 2009, then nearly doubled that in his contract year (7.6 in 2010) and then put up 0 war last year…

And a case could certainly be made that based on age, position, skill set, etc… Hat his 2010 season at age 29 was likely his peak.

But I get your point.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Even 4 WAR is worth what, $18 mill?

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure.

But is a guy like Crawford, who spent the first 8 seasons of his career on turf, relies on speed and defense as much as anything, at 30 years old (which, realistically, is probably more comparable based on time in the game and style closer to say, 32) gonna do that for the next 7 years?

Basically, he put up 28 war over the first 8 years of his career. And Boston was banking he’d do the same over his next 7. Now, he has to average closer to 5 war per over the next 6 years…

Could he do it? Sure. But count me among the skeptics at this point.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

If by 8 years you mean 2002-2009, that wasn’t really 8 years since he got to majors in late July 2002, plus I hardly think his subpar stats at ages 20 and 21 should count against him. Most guys aren’t even in the majors yet at that age, and he wouldn’t have been either if Tampa
hadn’t been so bad.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

no, theres a typo there, sorry. should be 38 war over his first 8 years (2003-2010) he put up 1.9 in 2002, and was close to 5 the next three years. then closer to 3 in 07 and 08, back to around 5 in 09, 7.6 in 2010. (thats fangraphs, BR is not as generous I guess because of defensive value maybe?)

if you take out 2003, and just go off 04-09, he averaged just short of 5 per season, like 4.87.

my point isn’t that he wasn’t underpaid, or that he didn’t put up numbers that quantify the dollars. My point is that the chances of him living up to the contract at the end of his career are less than likely. thats all.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 18, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. The point was that hailing Kemp’s deal as a definite positive, right now, is premature—that’s all.

by Phrozen on Jan 18, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s a virtual cacophony of bad free agent deals and extensions gone bad

Ladies and gentlemen, Aaron Rowand!
And his sidekick, Vernon Wells!
/I used Wells at BSH as an example of a really bad contract that you pretty much knew was going to be bad as soon as it was signed

GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal

by Bud in TN on Jan 17, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Some others.

Dodgers 6.5 Kershaw 10

Giants 17 Lincecum 21.5

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 5:54 PM EST reply actions  

21.5? Holy crap. So he’ll get like $19, right? The biggest arbitration award ever?

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

If it goes to arb, he gets $21.5 or 17. Nothing in between.

http://www.thegoodphight.com

by WholeCamels on Jan 17, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh. I honestly did not know that. Has it always been like that?

So $21.5 would be the biggest award ever, right?

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

1. Yes, and 2. I think so

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Heard on the way home that Hamels 15mm was the highest AAV for an arb eligible pitcher ever. So Tim’s 17 would eclipse that. I think jeter at 17.5 was highest ever.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That can’t be right. Didn’t Jered Weaver sign an extension for more than 15 per just last year?

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Who you’d have said not including free agent years. Sorry.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Should have.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Jeter at $18.5 was the highest submitted number I’m aware of.

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Dammit, should have kept reading.

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Confirmed. Jeter set the record way back in 2001. He asked for 18.5, yanks offered 14.25

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, I thought Ryan Howard set the record at $10 mill a few years ago

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn’t Howard’s the biggest one-year increase?

by Phrozen on Jan 17, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it wasn’t highest ever, it was highest increase

Just talkin about practice

by The Mad Hopper on Jan 17, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Howard’s was also largest first-year eligible award.

Jeter also asked for $18.5 in 2001, but they settled before the hearing on a long-term deal at 10/189.

Bob.

by The Dark on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

This isnt even his last ARB year.

by Nikk.m on Jan 17, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely and utterly OT

But I had someone (same guy from Exhibits A & B, actually) quote that awful Boopstats article on Philly.com as to why Valdez made Jimmy Rollins obsolete as an argument that we overpaid for Jimmy. I wanted to blow my brains out.

I’m refraining from linking the article. If you really want to read it…vaya con Dios.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 17, 2012 9:30 PM EST reply actions  

So to play devils advocate, here’s an interesting comp for hamels situation

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zitoba01.shtml?mobile=false

Eerily similar career averages up to the same points in their careers. To be fair, a strong case can be made that Zito had already started to regress in late 04 or 05, unless your looking purely at traditional statistics, and I dont think anyone would say that hamels has peaked or that he’s doing anything but getting better every year…

But I always think of Zito when any pitcher is approaching a 6-7 year deal for 20mm per.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 10:57 PM EST reply actions  

Look at their player comps for ages 26,27,28. Very very similar.

"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP

by Joecatz on Jan 17, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

those player comps are beyond worthless…. and besides, look at Zito’s K & BB rates, and by extension, his FIPs & xFIPs: he was nowhere near the pitcher Hamels is

by yolacrary on Jan 17, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Interestingly, Zito has beaten the league average xFIP a grand total of one time in his career. That was in his CYA season in ‘02, and he beat it by one percentage point. There’s no batted ball data (and thus no xFIPs) before ’02, but he only pitched 1.5 seasons before that.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m looking and trying to pin something down that made 2002 so different from the other years, but I’m having a hard time picking it out. Some of his stats are all over the place, not really following any particular trend.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 17, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, that’s just it – it wasn’t really that different. Even in ’02, he just beat the league average by a sliver.

by taco pal on Jan 17, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmmmm…interesting.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Not about pitchers, but

check out the 5-year WARs on these guys. Apologies if this was posted before.

Nothing has come easy, but I guess that wouldn't be the Philadelphia way if it did come easy. - Jimmy Rollins

by SandPhlea on Jan 18, 2012 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

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