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Hamels, Victorino, or Pence -- Choose One?


In light of Cole Hamels recently signing a one-year, $15 million contract for his last year of team control, attention now turns to whether the Phillies can bring back their homegrown ace long-term. At the same time that the Fightins will need to deal with Hamels, their two best (and youngest) position players will also require attention. Shane Victorino will finish his team-friendly 3-year deal in October, and Hunter Pence will be one year from free agency, with the ability to command about $15 million in his final year of arbitration. Together, the three figure to account for at least $50 million in salary obligations for 2013 -- a number the Phillies are unlikely to pay.

The question then becomes: who of these three will sport red pinstripes in 2013? Let's assume the Mayan calander is incorrect, and there actually be a 2013.

Star-divide

A quick look at Cot's Contracts shows the Phillies with $108 million already committed in contracts for 2013. Adding in the likely pick-up of Carlos Ruiz's option, and one side or the other declining Placido Polanco's mutual option, pushes commitments to $113m. A replacement for Polanco is almost certain to come from the free agent pool, which potentially includes names like David Wright, Jhonny Peralta, and Mark Reynolds. Of course, another option at the hot corner would be the "Freddy Galvis + pray" strategy.

David Herndon and Antonio Bastardo will be hitting arbitration for the first time, and a fifth starter will be needed even if Hamels is re-signed. Kyle Kendrick will cost something like $5 million if the team brings him back, but a better bet would be a cheap warm body to compete with Trevor May and Jonathan Pettibone in spring training. Brody Colvin could thrust himself into said competition with a big year in the minors this season, while I think Julio Rodriguez is ticketed for a Kendrick-type swingman role in the bigs. There are other names like Austin Hyatt, Austin Wright, and Adam Morgan which could factor into the back end of the rotation as well, if needed.

There is definitely a wealth of internal options to replace Blanton, and Hamels if necessary. But as the youngest, best, and least replaceable of the Pence-Victorino-Hamels trio, I believe the Phillies extend a Sabathia-type offer for Hamels, if that is what winds up being necessary to keep him. I think he winds up in the 6/145 range, as the Cliff Lee contract gives him plenty of bargaining power.

Another thing to keep in mind: without Hamels, the rotation becomes Halladay and Lee, who will both regress due to age at some point, Worley, and then major question marks. While the free agent starters next winter will be a pretty strong crop, anyone who can approximate Hamels' numbers will come at a similarly steep price.

While the minor-league talent is less abundant in the outfield, a more straightforward scenario exists there. If John Mayberry posts anything like his 2011 season, while Domonic Brown establishes himself as capable in the field and his power returns at the plate, the Phillies would have three corner outfielders for two spots. Theoretically, a 2013 outfield of Pence, JMJ, and Brown is feasible, but that group profiles as average defensively at best.

A more likely scenario would have Pence shipped out of town to make room for Brown and Mayberry. Trade suitors could range from the Dodgers or Giants to the Cubs, Mariners or Blue Jays. Pence (plus his compensation picks if he walks as a free agent after '13) could probably net one worthwhile prospect, a la Carlos Beltran this past summer. More importantly, the salary relief would free up plenty of space to sign Hamels.

Victorino's situation is trickier. He'll hit free agency going into his age-32 season -- clearly his decline phase. Yet if he posts a season similar to 2011 (.279/.355/.491, 6 fWAR) he will be in line for a big payday, something in the 4/60 range or higher. However, durability concerns and market competition (BJ Upton, Michael Bourn, Angel Pagan,and Melky Cabrera will hit the market as well) could drive his price down. I could see the Phillies taking the same tack as they did with Jimmy Rollins and allow the market to push Victorino back to them at a relative bargain on a three-year deal.

If Victorino does depart, his replacement is near-certain to come from within. Both Jiwan James and Tyson Gillies are legit center fielders defensively. Gillies' health concerns are his major red flag, while James' basestealing proficiency and overall hitting approach are worrisome. When healthy, Gillies is the superior option, showing four tools and the ability to be a true top-of-the-order hitter. His rust showed in the Arizona Fall League this year, but simply staying healthy for a month in game action was a big accomplishment after two seasons lost to injury. At 23, Gillies is age-appropriate for triple-A and could see plenty of time there in 2012.

At any rate, both Gillies and James project better than average on the basepaths and in the field, and below average at the plate, at least to start. But an outfield of Brown, Gillies/James and Mayberry could probably net about 8 or 9 wins (Pence, Victorino, Brown, Mayberry and Ibanez netted out at about 10 last year). And it would be cheap, practically free.

Meanwhile, the savings there would allow plenty of spending by The Smug elsewhere: big extension for Hamels? check. Big money or a big trade for a third baseman? Check. Re-upping Chase Utley to finish his career in Philly? check. Anything else the team needs at that point? Check.

Of course, the odds of both Brown and Mayberry being productive and Gillies or James being ready for the big time are low. They could go with Mayberry in center for a season, and then allow Pence to walk after '13. They could bring back Victorino, which IMO is the most likely strategy, or sign one of the other good CFs available (Bourn or Upton).

Hamels plus Big Money Veteran CF is likely to cost about $40 million in 2013 commitments. The Phillies could afford to do that, and still have room to pursue someone to play third base. If it's just Hamels, Amaro would have plenty of money to get creative. Mike Napoli is scheduled to be a free agent. So too are Shaun Marcum, Zack Greinke, Anibal Sanchez, Matt Cain, and Brandon McCarthy.

At any rate, the 2013 offseason figures to set the tone for the next five and ten years of the franchise. Played correctly, the Phillies can use it to bridge from one era to another, keep their best homegrown pitcher in a generation a Phillie for the rest of his prime years, and set themselves up to dominate the division for another half-decade. Played incorrectly, the Phillies could overpay for replaceable veterans, allow that homegrown pitcher to skip town, and generally ensure they will slide back into mediocrity.

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I’d say go with Hamels, if you’re only taking one. An ace lefty is gonna be harder to replace easily than a CF or RF.

by Phrozen on Jan 20, 2012 3:41 PM EST reply actions  

I’m not at all convinced that that’s accurate. We’re all sort of conditioned to believe that pitching is scarce and “you can never have enough pitching,” but my subjective impression right now is that pitching is abundant and hitters are scarce.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with Phrozen, but on a different train of reason. Hamels is younger than Vic and better than Pence (in comparison to those who play his position).

by Cormican on Jan 20, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t say anything there about Hamels specifically, though. I was responding to what Phrozen said, the general proposition that an ace lefty is harder to replace than an outfielder.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I know, just a convenient spot to respond.

by Cormican on Jan 20, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

In any event, Hamels can be younger than Vic and better (relative to position) than Pence and still not be harder to replace. It depends on how much $ each guy demands and who the alternatives at each position are.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

True. But I didn’t mean that in general terms, I meant it in regards to our specific situation, and I’m confident it would be easier to find a replacement for Victorino or Pence than it would be for Hamels. Hell, we have a replacement for Pence already.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear.

by Phrozen on Jan 20, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

There are just way too many variables this far out to choose anybody. Hamels is the best player of the three, for whatever that’s worth.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

Interestingly, Victorino and Hamels both basically came up in 2006, Hamels a little bit later in the year.

Victorino: 23.8 fWAR, Hamels 23.0 fWAR

If you really had to choose just one, there’s a fair chance that Victorino is the value play. Obviously he’s older, but if you could get him for around half the price of Hamels…

by topherstarr on Jan 20, 2012 4:20 PM EST reply actions  

Ok, throw in Pence. 19.3 career WAR in 5 seasons.

Hamels 23 fWAR/6 seasons = 3.83 WAR/season
Victorino: 23.8 fWAR/ 6 seasons = 3.97 WAR/season
Pence: 19.3 fWAR/5 season = 3.86 WAR/season

Obviously there’s a lot more that has to go into it than that, but all three have been pretty damn similar in terms of value. If you could get one of them a lot cheaper than the others, that’s probably the best move.

by topherstarr on Jan 20, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Hamels is the youngest, so there’s that. I also think his production is less replaceable than the other two. The Phillies don’t have any pitching prospects who profile as true #1s. Although if Victorino is a true talent 5 or 6-win player now, then maybe not.

by Governator on Jan 20, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

But does it matter if the prospects are #1s? It seems to me that what would matter is (the difference between Hamels and replacement) vs. (the difference between Vic/Pence and replacement). Or something like that.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that the drop-off from Hamels to internal replacements (May/Colvin) is pretty vast, and the drop from non-BABIP fueled Pence to Brown/JMJ is pretty small. Victorino is sort of another thing altogether.

by Governator on Jan 20, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Pence to Brown is probably pretty small (possibly negative), assuming that Brown learns how to field adequately. But it has to be a smaller dropoff between Pence and both Brown and Mayberry, not just either/or. And I’m not convinced of that. Plus, what if, hypothetically, Hamels demands $22 per and Pence demands $15 per? That would also shift the calculus.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I get that. But you’re not replacing Hamels’ production with anything other than another top-tier FA starter, which is just about as expensive as Hamels anyway, while you can at least approximate Pence with Brown/Mayberry, which is much much cheaper.

by Governator on Jan 20, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

There are some assumptions here that I don’t think are necessarily true.

“you’re not replacing Hamels’ production with anything other than another top-tier FA starter” —> yes

“you can at least approximate Pence with [the worse of] Brown/Mayberry” —> I don’t know that this is true. Maybe yes, maybe no.

And what if the worse corner OF alternative in fact isn’t able to approximate Pence? Then you’re not going to replace either Hamels’ or Pence’s production except with a top-tier FA.

So then the question becomes: where are you more likely to at least get something decent as a replacement from the farm system? SP or Corner OF? Or if not from the farm system, where are you more likely to get a decent, reasonably priced FA as a replacement? SP or Corner OF? In which circumstance will your budget to get that reasonably priced FA replacement be bigger? If you give Pence the $ he wants and look for a SP with what you’ve got left, or if you give Hamels the $ he wants and look for a Corner OF with what you’ve got left.

And this is all just for Pence vs. Hamels, which is the matchup where the facts favor Hamels more, as compared to Vic vs. Hamels.

I’m not saying don’t sign Hamels. I’m certainly no fanboy of Pence. All I’m saying is that it’s still a very open question who should be the higher priority, and we need more info (which will come in as the year goes along).

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Some complicating issues...

I honestly have no clue how old Pence is, but I assume he’s younger than Victorino.

Even if Vic is a true 5-6 win player, how much longer can he sustain that at his age? You’d have to think that Hamels has more 4+ win seasons in him than Victorino. On the other hand, pitcher health is more volitale.

I think WAR has a positional adjustment, so in theory it shouldn’t matter if they don’t have “#1” pitching prospects. If they can save $5-7 million by signing one of the hitters and if they can allocate the savings to better defense, hitting, the other rotation spots, theoretically the better plan is to sign the less expensive player.

That’s a huge if…

I’m going to have to stop coming to this site or I’ll end up talking myself out of wanting to keep Hamels.

by topherstarr on Jan 20, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Hamels can be the worse player and it still might be better to sign Vic, depending on relative cost and positional alternatives.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if Amaro would actually trade Pence. On the one hand, he showed he’s not afraid to trade a star player from the ML roster. On the other hand, he got crucified by the fans/MSM the one time he did it. I wonder how sensitive he is about that.

by topherstarr on Jan 20, 2012 4:56 PM EST reply actions  

He might be sensitive (maybe unconsciously), but I think that if Brown and Mayberry both do really well this year, it would give him the cover he’d need to dump Pence. Some people would get outraged but not enough for critical mass.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

it would give him the cover he’d need to dump Pence.

Or either Brown or Mayberry (though trading Mayberry isn’t a half bad idea if he has a good season).

by Cormican on Jan 20, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d be down with that. Just as long as they don’t trade Brown – if he has success this year, you just can’t trade him. Far too valuable.

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if Victorino could be underpriced on the FA market for the same reason why shortstops tend to be underpriced. “Little guys” just don’t get big contracts.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 5:00 PM EST reply actions  

Jose Reyes and Carl Crawford would beg to differ

by Governator on Jan 20, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I would argue that Reyes got a smaller contract than a “big man” with a similar track record would have gotten. Crawford I’ll grant, but we’re talking about tendencies here.

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I would agree that Reyes got less than he should have. But his specific injury issues, given his position and skillset, were a major concern to any team in the market for him. Hard to say. But yes, homeruns get paid more than baserunning, on-base, and defense.

Victorino also has better HR/RBI numbers than your typical little guy.

by Governator on Jan 20, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

He does have decent HR/RBI numbers, you’re right about that. I guess I just suspect that there may be a mental block about him out there in spite of the HR/RBI. I’ve heard some of this from talk radio hosts and people like that – despite everything Vic did this year, they can’t be shaken from their view that “he’s not a big hitter, he’s not a Ryan Howard, he’s just a nice piece.” GMs are a lot smarter than talk radio hosts, but I think they’re affected by the same types of groupthink, just on a much smaller scale.

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I should say, also, good post. Provoked good discussion.

by taco pal on Jan 21, 2012 1:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I have to disagree with you there. Reyes is making more in AAV than any shortstop in baseball not named Troy Tulowitzki. Plus his deal is so heavily backloaded, that from 2015 to 2018* (team option year), he’ll be making $22 million a season, $2 million more than Tulowitzki is going to earn in any season of his contract.

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.

by TheOrangeCone on Jan 21, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Measuring him against other shortstops misses my point entirely, which is that shortstops as a class tend to get less money than equally valuable guys at certain other positions do.

by taco pal on Jan 23, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know. Good Centerfielders aren’t exactly flooding the market right now.

All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia

by Veni Vidi Vici on Jan 20, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, that makes them very valuable. But does the market recognize this fully in practice?

by taco pal on Jan 20, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

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