Don't Be Shocked If John Mayberry Falls Flat on His Face
Nobody reading this needs to be reminded of what a pleasant surprise John Mayberry Jr. was in 2011. He had a great year, which went something like this: After reportedly showing up in Clearwater in great shape, Mayberry had a strong spring training, going 20 for 68 with 5 HR, 6 BB, 12 K, and 4/4 SB, earning himself a bench spot on the Opening Day roster. Then on Opening Day itself, he came up with a game-winning walk-off RBI pinch single. He stayed hot through April but then started to struggle in May, especially after being forced into the starting lineup for 18 games (68 PA) beginning on May 15 due to a Shane Victorino injury (.194/.265/.323). When Victorino returned, Mayberry was optioned to Lehigh Valley. But then he returned on July 5 and went buck wild as a part-time starter for the rest of the season. His wRC+s for July, August, and September were 158, 175, and 146, respectively. In total, he hit 12 HR and .301/.358/.607 over his last 179 PA and ended the season with 2.5 fWAR in only 296 PA.
It was tremendous, and he deserves a lot of praise for it. But that doesn't mean he'll be able to repeat it over a full season in 2012 -- or ever. Mayberry was 27 in 2011 and it's common for players to get a lot better around that age. But the degree to which Mayberry appeared to improve last year has got to raise a healthy amount of suspicion that maybe what we saw was too good to be true. While Mayberry was once a first-round draft pick and therefore isn't completely without a prospect pedigree, he was a pretty pedestrian hitter for his entire career prior to 2011, and that isn't something we can just throw out the window just because of one season of great stats in part-time duty. And especially since in Mayberry's case, he didn't even really put up one season of great stats -- he really only put up three months of super-awesome stats. Below the jump is a chart (italicized numbers are back-of-the-envelope ballpark estimates).
| Split.................................................. | PA | BB% | K% | ISO | BABIP | AVG | OBP | SLG | wOBA | wRC |
| Entire AAA Career Before 2011 | 1,380 | 7.5% | 21.0% | .182 | .307 | .263 | .325 | .445 | .339 | 103 |
| 2011 MLB Stats Through July 4 | 117 | 9.4% | 19.7% | .134 | .269 | .231 | .316 | .365 | .309 | 92 |
| 2011 AAA Stats Through July 4 | 122 | 4.1% | 18.9% | .177 | .289 | .265 | .287 | .442 | .319 | 94 |
| 2011 MLB Stats After July 4 | 179 | 8.4% | 17.9% | .306 | .308 | .301 | .358 | .607 | .407 | 159 |
This chart has a bit of a Rorschach quality to it and is subject to a certain amount of individual interpretation, but at the same time, WTF it's totally weird. Apart from some (mostly meaningless) good stats and subjective praise from spring training, there was basically zero reason on July 4, 2011 to believe that Mayberry had changed in any way. His stats until that point were entirely consistent with what you would have thought of him on January 1, 2011: that he was a 27-year-old non-prospect who had topped out as a mediocre AAA hitter and would never be anything more than a backup in the big leagues. His breakout was abrupt, could not have been foreseen, and occurred over a pretty modest sample size.
The implications of that are unclear. On one hand, Mayberry was so awesome over that small sample that it was enough to make even his cumulative stats look good. A mere 179 PA of a 159 wRC+ may be very weak as evidence that Mayberry has turned into a 159 wRC+ hitter, but as evidence that he's turned into an above-average hitter, it isn't nearly as weak. On the other hand, 179 PA is 179 PA -- the equivalent of roughly 40 games for a typical everyday player.
I guess I'd like to open this up for some crowdsourcing, if I might. First, can you name any hitters whose career trajectories would be precedents for Mayberry being the real deal going forward -- guys who showed little promise in the minors long past age 25, then suddenly put it all together? (Don't include guys whose early-career struggles were due to extenuating circumstances such as injuries or drug abuse.) Second, can you name any mediocre or below-average hitters who put together 40-game stretches of awesomeness, then went back to being themselves? Call me a pessimist, but I suspect that there will be more answers to the second question than the first.
I want to be clear: I'm not saying that Mayberry is definitely going to fail. I'm not even saying that he's probably going to fail. But I am saying that the possibility that he'll fail is far from remote. And my subjective impression is that far too few Phillies fans these days, even in the saber community, are sufficiently cognizant of that possibility. YMMV, but I personally think Mayberry's chances of failing in 2012 are substantially greater than Domonic Brown's. A lot of people seem to be taking the reverse for granted.
If Mayberry goes back to being what he was (a league-average hitter in AAA, which probably is equivalent to around a 90 or so wRC+ hitter in MLB), then he probably won't be an acceptable starting corner outfielder. In 2011, LFs who put up those kinds of hitting numbers were in the neighborhood of 1 offensive WAR, which isn't good. You can compensate for that with defense to an extent, but unless you're truly extraordinary out there, defense alone won't make you a league-average player. Interestingly, Mayberry did have extraordinary UZR stats in 2011 (+27.7 UZR/150 in 161.1 innings in LF, which is nearly Brett Gardner territory, along with +18.6 UZR/150 in 66.1 RF innings and a respectable -5.6 UZR/150 in 246.2 CF innings), but I have serious doubts about the predictive value of those numbers, considering that a few hundred innings is a tiny sample for UZR purposes -- for instance, Carlos Lee had a +18.1 in 645.1 innings as a LF last year. Mayberry never had a reputation in the minors for being any sort of defensive whiz, and while I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't expect that the Gardner model will be a viable ticket to long-term success for him. He's got to hit. And he may not.
This is not to suggest that the Phillies are doing anything wrong by handing Mayberry the LF job in 2012. It's well worth the risk of failure to find out if Mayberry can succeed, especially since the Phils will also have Dom Brown waiting in the wings in AAA as a backup plan. Nevertheless, there is a risk. Even if worst comes to worst, Mayberry won't kill the 2012 Phillies. After all, Raul Ibanez had a 90 wRC+ last year and he didn't kill the 2011 Phillies. (And Ibanez was a bad fielder to boot. No matter how flukish Mayberry's 2011 UZR may have been, he'll almost certainly be a substantial step up in the field compared to his predecessor.) But the Phillies won't always be as strong at their other positions as they are now, and if Mayberry turns out not be the long-run answer, that will affect the decisions the front office will need to make for 2013.
[h/t WL for his helpful feedback and PF for crunching some numbers I used above]
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In other words, "Don't Be Shocked If John Mayberry Becomes Shane Victorino"?

With all due respect to Shane, and all fervent hope that maybe Mayberry just may become a version of him.
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 25, 2012 9:10 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
This picture makes Shane look like he wants to sacrifice me to Cthulu and then eat my bones. Why, then, do I find the picture hilarious as well?
by ThinMountainAir on Jan 25, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be shocked
But there is room for hope:
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/john-mayberry-jrs-strikeout-rate/
That’s good news, but I think that guy made his point look stronger than it really was by choosing 2009 as his beginning cutoff, when Mayberry actually made it to AAA in 2008. If you include 2008, it looks like 2009 was just an outlier. There’s been improvement but not nearly as much as he made it look.
2008 AAA: 17.9%
2009 AAA: 26.3%
2010 AAA: 20.3%
2011 AAA: 18.9%
2011 MLB: 18.6%
I don’t think Mayberry’s K rates from 2010 MLB and 2011 MLB are meaningful. He had a total of 73 PA in those two years combined.
Oddly, Mayberry’s 2009 wRC+ was by far the highest of his AAA career despite the high K rate. Looks like it was because he also had a AAA career-high walk rate and nearly a Lehigh Valley career-high ISO (his ISO in Oklahoma City in 2008 was a tad better but I assume that’s a more HR-friendly ballpark).
Take some time off, you’ve been working hard.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Three last weekend in June.
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=mia#y=2012&m=6&calendar=DEFAULT
I’ll have the hot pressed cubans and fruity run drinks ready.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
None, but you accrue .0125 sick days per season, so you get like four hours off now.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jan 25, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I’d add to that (assuming he doesn’t platoon) that getting his K% against RHP down around 15% would be tremendous. He did a pretty good job in his limited AB’s against RHP last season drawing a walk (was actually 10.2% on the year at the ML level, which is double his career average against RHP… but SSS) but his K% against RHP was still something like 22%
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Everyone seems fond of pointing to Jose Bautista as a comp. Bautista broke out in 2010 at age 29 after making adjustments to his swing that helped his power and average (his K rate went down as well, and mind you he had a breakout season with a remarkably low BABIP). His BB rate is amazing, but was always remarkably high.
I think the Bautista comp is people wish casting (obviously), as there really aren’t that many similarities Honestly Dom Brown, he of the high walk rate, power potential and slow start after coming up as a 23 year old. But even that comp is a huge stretch. Bautista is a comp for no one.
lol. great minds think alike. I guess.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I just thought the same. I’d never looked at Bautista’s stats closely before. What an exceedingly bizarre career he’s had.
The crazy part about it to me is that typically, when someone has a huge power increase like he did, and make an adjustment, whatever, their K rates go UP. His is the exact opposite. it’s like he lazered in on soething and a switch just went off.
Its really, really, amazing.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
also...
I use Bautista here as much becuase many people (who I respect) were saying the same kind of things that Tp is saying here in early 2010, his breakout season.
Dave Cameron http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-jose-bautista-the-new-ben-zobrist/
John Sickels Part 1. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-jose-bautista-the-new-ben-zobrist/
John Sickels part 2: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/9/29/1720096/jose-bautista-toronto-blue-jays-52-homers
Peoploe started to notice (and question) what was happening in May of 2010. We all know what he did. The interesting thing to me, is what he did in late 2009.
Through August 31st of that year, he put up a .225/354/.313 line with 45BB and 58Ks. Of his 51 hits, 13 of them were for extra bases, and only 2 were HR’s.
From September to seasons end, in 129 plate appearances, he put up a .944 OPS, 11BB 27K’s, but 16 of his 28 hits were for Extra bases. 10 were HR’s
Its VERY similar to what Mayberry did end of year.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
If you’re looking for a near term comp for success, post steroid era, this guy is as close as I can find
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bautijo02-bat.shtml
The big difference, of course, is that Bautista stuck in the Majors at 25, but he broke out around the same age as Mayberry, and he showed last year that 2010 wasn’t a fluke, but no one saw that coming. that said, their ISO’s are remarkably similar prior to the huge jump in power.
Interestingly enough, Bautista credits his change to similar things the Phils have said about Mayberry… Swing adjustments, approach at the plate, etc…
For me, the biggest difference in why its not an accurate comp is this.
If you look at Bautista’s bb/K rates in 2006-2009 (210 BB to 386) vs 2010-2011 (232 bb 227K’s) its insane.
Mayberry even in his hot streak last year, still had twice as many K’s as walks. thats gonna be the big tell for me.
Please also, make no mistake, I don’;t think Mayberry is gonna turn into Jose Bautista, but one can dream, no?
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
by Joecatz on Jan 25, 2012 11:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for the dream.
Franzke: Way outta here! Another one for Mayberry! That’s 30!
Andersen: And I’ll have another one after the game, like I’ve promised for every Mayberry homer.
Franzke: Larry, you’ve had 30 Long Island ice teas so far this year, and it isn’t even July 4!
Andersen: Hoping Barry Bonds starts getting nervous.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
by Bud in TN on Jan 25, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think it’s that’s unreasonable. Unlikely at least to Bautista levels, but it not unreasonable. I think the minor leagues do a dreadful job at producing baseball players given the horrible failure rates of prospects and the insane amount of time players spend in the minors. That someone of Mayberry potenial and physical attributes scuffled so much could have easily been the fault of some coaches or trainers. Maybe he finally worked his way thru the plateau phase.that alot of young athletes hit which could have simply been prolonged by shit coaching..
crowdsourcing part 2
I’ll get it started.
Greg Norton, DOB 7/6/72
Before ‘06: 1872 PA, 10.6 BB%, 22.2 K%, .245/.326/.419, .174 ISO
’06 thru 8/4: 152 PA, 10.5 BB%, 23.0 K%, .267/.344/.437, .170 ISO
’06 after 8/4: 183 PA, 10.4 BB%, 18.7 K%, .321/.399/.591, .270 ISO
After ’06: 557 PA, 16.2 BB%, 21.4 K%, .234/.359/.355, .121 ISO
How do you split the numbers mid-season like that? I noticed that Norton had a .333 BABIP for all of 2006, while for his career it is .295. Of course, that wouldn’t explain the homers.
by topherstarr on Jan 25, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
That’s really cool, I never used that before.
Since I looked it up, Norton 2006 BABIP thru 8/4 = .319, after 8/4 = .351
by topherstarr on Jan 25, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
If that was 2005 instead of 2006 I’d be screaming PEDs on that one. it’s still pretty fishy.
I’m almost of the opinion that any crowdsourcing from the late 90’s through mid 2000’s needs an asterisk…
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Look at it like this….
He spent all of 2005 at AAA, and thats when it started to spike, really.. if you dig deeper, and he wasn’t playing every day in 2006 until mid/late July… Even then, He hit 7 HR’s in 123 AB through August 4th…
then he hit 10 over the last two months…
If I was making a case for PED’s I’d say either
1) he was using them in 2005 and it took a few months and a few breaks to get noticed, OR..
2) He was using them in 2005 at AAA, stopped, saw his chance to play every day (at 33), after he made the bigs again, and started using again in May/June.
then in 2007 poof. no more power…
In Tampa.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
How about Garrett Jones of Pittsburgh?
Career .259/.313/.450 hitter in close on ten minor league seasons up to age 28. Got called up to the big club in 2009 where his BB% spiked to 11.2% and his BABIP went up to .323 over 358 at bats. Ended the season with a .293/.372/.567 line, good for a 146 OPS+ and some RoY votes.
2010 he gets 592 at bats and reverts to .247/.306/.414 while everything dropped around the board. ISO from .274 to .167, BB% down to 8.1 and BABIP down to .274.
Not sure how closely this fits your criteria, but he popped into my head as maybe close to what you had in mind
Garrett Jones was the best player of all time for like, at least 15 minutes there.
by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Way off topic
But, still baseball & Phillies related.
Who do you think is going to be the 4th 5th & 6th starters this year? and of them who do you think is going to have the best season of the 3?
Reason I ask this is there seems to be a lot of Joe Blanton hate going around and, I can understand why but, when he has been healthy he’s given the Phillies more chances to win than not.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
4. Blanton 5. Worley 6. Kendrick
Worley has the highest ceiling, Blanton’s most likely to do the best
Kendrick’s sort of like the John Mayberry of the pitching staff, in a way (though not to the same degree)
Yeah, just because he’s the most unknown quantity. There’s like a 0.1% chance that something crazy happened last year and that his upward trajectory from 10-‘11 will continue and he’ll become an all-star or something.
Blanton’s ceiling is pretty too good though. I could see him having a career year and pitching like a “#2 starter”. Much more likely than Worley’s ceiling.
About Worley
Forgive me I’m in Afghanistan and, missed all but a few games of the 2011 season…. but, I could have sworn that I read (2010 season) he was projected out to be a #3 / solid #4 guy. Even during the later half of the 2011 season I recall hearing about most of his low ERA was due to an unsustainable BABIP somewhere in the low .200s , the idea that he was a two pitch pitcher was going to hurt him in the long run and, his SO / BB (I’m not doing the research on this connection it will take all week) isn’t in the caliber to be considered above a #3 / #4 guy.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Jan 25, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Posting fail
I meant to put "somewhere int he low .200s in asterisks didn’t realize it would bold it.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Jan 25, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
You’re mostly right here. He was projected as a #4 at best before the season. His ERA was lucky. At the beginning of the year, his BABIP was crazy low and his K/BB wasn’t that great.
But then, oddly enough, he appeared to show genuine improvement as the year went along. His K/BB got way better at the end of the year and he continued to post good ERAs even though his BABIP luck evened out. Ended the year with 3.66 xFIP, 3.72 SIERA. From July-Sept, it was more like a ~3.3 xFIP. Your guess is as good as mine on what he’ll do in 2012.
Mayberry will regress
I think in large part it depends on how much Cholly uses him vs. RHP pitching especially pitchers who have good offspeed stuff. If he sees a fair amount of that this year, his numbers will probably end up being (+RC) around 100 at best.
Curious to see how much PT that Nix (or even Brown later in the year) might end up getting in LF.
I’d nominate Raul Ibanez as a decent (and optimistic) comp for Mayberry, actually.
Other than a solid age 23 season in A+ Riverside, Ibanez’s minors’ career averaged roughly the same .700-.800 OPS as Mayberry, until he turned it on at age 27-28. He also wasn’t as Earth-shatteringly bad at defense as he would later become.
Wow, that might be a really good comp. Not sure why I didn’t think of that, all the times we’ve mentioned him as a late bloomer.
Forgive me, but an article about John Mayberry has been on the internet for over seven hours
I can sea why you would be concerned. Some fans may just be fishing for reasons to think Mayberry’s 2011 was more than a fluke. It’s probably too soon to abandon ship, though. Mayberry may not be an anchor in the lineup, but there is no evidence that his 2011 performance was buoyed by good fortune.
At the very least, perhaps if he can sustain his numbers for a few months he can be traded…
to the Mariners.
I missed the obvious one
At the very least, perhaps if he can sustain his numbers stay afloat for a few months he can be traded shipped out…
If he’s really turned the tide why wouldn’t you want to keep him around?
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Jan 26, 2012 6:22 AM EST up reply actions
true, the Phillies probably won’t sink or swim based on whether Mayberry can keep his head above water. but while there may have been a sea change in his talent level, if you were expecting him to surface as an MVP candidate in 2012, that ship has probably sailed. who knows how long the Phillies can tread water with him; after all, time and tide wait for no man.
by perfectdepth on Jan 25, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
This all works so well, given his known attraction to mermaids.
by Cormican on Jan 25, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ctrl-F Mermaid
Really, nothing? I’m disappointed.
by philsandthrills on Jan 25, 2012 4:28 PM EST reply actions
One thing everyone here forgot to ask...
How did Mayberry’s dad age?
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 25, 2012 8:32 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
His best years were ages 23 and 26, but it also looks like he had a tidy run from ages 28-32. Done at 33.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 26, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
also, some interesting stats too – had some lousy BAs but was almost eerily exactly 100 points higher on OBP. So maybe the batting eye is a dominant gene.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 26, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
I almost pissed myself.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Jan 26, 2012 6:23 AM EST up reply actions
I’d rather stick him at 1B and get Brown ABs all season long.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
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Fake John Mayberry Sr strongly disagrees with this article
by Vaughn Haze on Jan 26, 2012 11:16 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Great Topic
Mayberry reminds me a bit of Werth and Francisco. All have power and speed skills offering a high potential upside.
Werth had a tremendous walk rate and an injury reason for being a late bloomer.
Francisco was a quality backup with a possibility to get a bit better with a full time role.
I would tend to think Mayberry will be just a bit better than Francisco last year. I doubt he will ‘solve’ LF. Mayberry’s speed, defense, and quality splits against lefties will make him useful for the team even with a low OBP and high K rate. I think Nix is a good complementary player: lefty power and capable in CF, that could cover for Vic if necessary.
John Mayberry Jr. and Phillies
Mayberry has a rocket arm and definitely a better on defence than Ibanez. However, the latter was a good outfielder and had a good arm. I know Ibanez was not fast, but he was smart outfielder and got a good jump on the ball. I played the outfield and understand these things and wonder if tacopal every played ball? Also, it is really unfair to judge these things especially since John was playing well until the end of last year. I think we need to give this year a look see before we judge the man. It amazes me that no matter how well you do something in this country that one will find a way to criticise. It is ridiculous! Good job, Mayberry and good luck next year. Fool all your critics. And then picking on Shane who has been the best centerfielder in the league in the last several years. You don’t let up do you tacopal. Oh, where did you play ball?
by Grantham Taylor, Hughes on Jan 27, 2012 12:33 AM EST reply actions
Okay, I’m being punk’d here, right? Where’s Kutcher?
by taco pal on Jan 27, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tee hee

Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 27, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Mayberry has a rocket arm
I would like to see a photoshop of this.
by philsandthrills on Jan 27, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
I believe this is the first ever appearance of the words “Ibanez” and “good arm” is adjacent sentences which don’t include the word “not”.

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