Phillies Trade Wilson Valdez
More on this as it develops, but the Phillies have traded away the greatest 19th inning pitcher in the history of the franchise. It's a sad day for fans of bizarre extra innings games and strangely bleached goatees.
4 months ago
David S. Cohen
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I'm in mourning.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Follow @Sohil_Doshi
Noooo
The Mini Mart era lives on!!!!!!
by 88Lindros88 on Jan 25, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Freddy Galveeeeees.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
Yeah, would rather see him play every day than get DomBrown’ed.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
With the bats off the bench we have this season, I think a case can be made that Galvis is a better back up IF option than Mini Mart. Especially since I don’t see him projecting as the 3B of the future…
He’s trade bait or a utility guy at this point.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Galvis might be the guy. Especially if you think wiggy gets the bulk of the back up time at 2B/3B Once Howard is healthy. Galvis is the best defensive option at SS for sure.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I meant it’s too early to say he’s “trade bait or a utility guy at this point.” I’m not sure exactly what you meant by that, but under any possible interpretation, I think there are other options.
As for whether he’s a better back-up option for 2012 than Martinez or Orr, I’m sure he probably is. I’d rather keep him in the minors regardless. There’s more to life than 2012.
I meant in terms of How helps the major league team near term, which is essentially as a back up in Philly or as trade bait if they send him to lehigh and he performs.
The interesting question is where they see him, and where he’s better suited this year.
Do you let him get ABs at lehigh and time at 2B/SS/3B if you see him as a super sub?
Do you let him just play SS if you want to trade him and hope his bat gets there?
Or do you hide his inefficiencies at the plate and hope he can pass muster at the ML level and see what he can do?
Hea definitely gonna be an interesting case to watch this season wherever he plays, for sure.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I think you play him everyday at AAA, primarily as a SS but also getting time at the other IF positions.
Basically, you act as if he’s going to be (1) Rollins’ understudy in a year or two, (2) a starting SS down the road. Those things may not happen, but there’s no reason not to pursue them anyway. It’s perfectly consistent with increasing his trade value (I don’t think you look to trade him, but you listen if a trade opportuinties comes up of course). Knowing how to play multiple positions adds to your trade value, it doesn’t take away from it.
At this stage of his development, it makes no sense to turn Galvis into a big league utility IF. The upside to doing that is next to nothing.
I would also assume Offensively Galvis would be just as bad as Mini-Mart if he got called up to start 2012 (especially if he’s only pinch hitting and rare spot starts). It may be worth calling him up if Rollins suffers a longer term injury and Galvis can start for a month or two, but even then, it may not be much better than starting Martinez (though Galvis may provide better D)
Martinez actually had around a +30 UZR/150 in a very meaninglessly small sample as a middle IF last year. I know that’s not enough to say he’s a good fielder out there but maybe he is. He ended up with a negative overall UZR because he played more at 3B.
We got a living, breathing human being in exchange for Wilson Valdez? :o
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
I had the same reaction. And one who pitched pretty well last year, at least by my initial look at his numbers.
by David S. Cohen on Jan 25, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, me too. I know that there are a lot of jokes on this thread (and a great line by Joecatz below) but really, even if he ends up being mostly minor league pitching fodder, given that he is left-handed, how is this not a win for the Phils? Even less $$$!!!!
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Horst did pretty well at the ML level last season, but if you check out his AAA stats from 2011, they’re pretty impressive too.
2.81 ERA, 1.071 WHIP, 14BB 42K’s in 51.1 innings.
also, has only given up 4 HR’s in 123 IP since converting to a reliever in 2010. all at AA and AAA…
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
only for his limited ML time. Not too pretty
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=horstje01&year=Career&t=p
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
two years ago
AA vs. L – 10.0 IP, 1.71 FIP, 2.85 xFIP
AA vs. R – 33.1 IP, 2.18 FIP, 2.82 xFIP
AAA vs. L – 7.2 IP, 2.25 FIP, 3.18 xFIP
AAA vs. R – 11.1 IP, 3.82 FIP, 4.96 xFIP
in any case, in Cinci he faced twice as many RHB as LHB, but in the SSS he got pretty much crushed by lefties.
here’s who he K’d:
Ryan Bruan, Casey McGhee, Luis Montanez, Jordan Shaefer, Jeff Baker, Yuniesky Betancourt, Freddie Freeman, Eric Hinske and LARRY THE DOUCHE
here’s who he walked:
Ethier, Hart, Kemp, Loney, Giambi, Matt Holliday
McCann and Braun homered off of him,
Nyjer Morgan, Starlin Castro, Albert Pujols, doubled
so theres that…
But the fact that Chipper is hitless and has only K’d against him makes him a pseudo folk hero in my book already. HE OWNS CHIPPER JONES
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
HE OWNS CHIPPER JONES
Well worth it then! Sorry, Wilson. See ya.
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
what are the numbers like on this Jeremy Horst fella?
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
I tip my hat to you.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno if it’s that good. Wilson Valdez had an infinity ERA+.
by topherstarr on Jan 25, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty limited innings, but then again, with Baker as manager, that’s prolly a good thing. /s
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
by doubleh on Jan 25, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This may be the first time in the history of the sport that a position player with a perfect pitching line (1-0, 0.000 ERA, 0.000 WHIP) was traded for a pitcher with a perfect batting line (1.00/1.00/1.00)
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
by Joecatz on Jan 25, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 13 recs
Nice. I hope Jayson Stark gives you credit when he writes about it.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
wouldn’t a perfect batting line be 1.000/1.000/4.0000? /just sayin’
All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jan 25, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
then this is a very smart SABR trade. Gotta give RAJ credit.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 25, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
So can we expect that RAJ uses more stats?
Yeah, maybe too much to hope. :-((
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
This saddens me, Wilson Valdez’s only home run with the Phillies was hit to my seat in Pittsburgh…while I was getting drinks. I came back in time to see all the fans in my section cheering and the punk sitting behind me raise the ball in the air triumphantly.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
I just saw a post on Phillies Nation saying he only hit one. Maybe I’m wrong, but can we just say one? It makes my story more dramatic.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
okay, he hit one last year. 4 the year before.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I hope Dusty Baker doesn’t ruin Wilson’s arm
/rimshot
by topherstarr on Jan 25, 2012 4:31 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Music 401 Seminar, analyzing the shit out of a Grieg cello concerto.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 25, 2012 6:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we didn’t tender we get nothing, right?
So we tendered, picked up a young LH relief pitcher, and essentially saved 500K or so this season, if you assume (which RAJ alluded to with Gelb) that we’re gonna fill his role with martinez, Galvis, Orr, Frandsen or Hector Luna.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Yeah, like I say above, what’s not to like?
You know, given how one-sided-in-the-future this trade could become, you have to think Dusty’s fingerprints are all over this!
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
Sinkerballers all over the NL East are weeping tonight.
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 25, 2012 4:37 PM EST reply actions
Brrrrrrrr. Population 204.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/horstje01.shtml
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Damn, wrong link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Des_Lacs,_North_Dakota
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
Radiator Springs, but much calmer.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
by schmenkman on Jan 25, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
is that the view from Great American Ballpark?
All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jan 26, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Geez, don’t these photographers offer any photo retouching services? He’s got a zit right in the middle of his forehead.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
But is he really any worse looking than Valdez? I’d say we improved the overall look of the team, photogenically speaking.
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 25, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhere, Mike Williams just shed a single tear.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/PHI/PHI199307070.shtml
Got to get younger!
I’m gonna miss Valdez, not just for the 19th inning, not just for being named after a city in Alaska, but for his attitude (WARNING. CLICHE!). In the interviews on radio or TV, he always, but always, was positive. Even after a loss. Once he said something along the lines of, “I’ve got to help Ryan an Jimmy do their jobs as best I can.”
Good luck, Wilson. Enjoy the Chili Spaghetti.
not to mention, it was kind of awesome having the only half goat/half man ever in the history of MLB playing for us.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Bias?
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
I will miss him for many reasons, but mostly for his phonetic dialogue in The Fightins’ and ZWR’s satirical fiction.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 25, 2012 5:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Still love the pic with the Photoshopped shirt “I am the fifth starter”
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
by Borg_Queen on Jan 25, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Waah. We will miss him deeply in this household. We saw him play 3B, SS and 2B in one game in Spring Training before he came up, all with that whip arm of course, and ever since have been seriously in his fanbase.
Nothing has come easy, but I guess that wouldn't be the Philadelphia way if it did come easy. - Jimmy Rollins
Completely off topic but...
I was watching sportscenter, I know I know, I am trying to nap right now. And while watching, they began talking about baseball. They posted the 2012 odds to win the World Series. They have Tigers at 4:1, Angels at 5:1, Phillies at 11:2, CUBS at 6:1 , and Red Sox at 6:1. How do the cubs have as good of a shot to win the world series as the Red Sox and nearly as good of a shot as the Phillies?
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
Their rotation is as good as any in baseball!
by phillies0100 on Jan 25, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
maybe they have them at 1:1?
"I quit school in the 6th grade because of pneumonia. Not because I had it, but because I couldn't spell it."
by secondroundpick on Jan 25, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/baseball-futures.jsp
I’m curious where ESPN got their odds. I found that seemingly legitimate site via google and they have the Cubs at 35:1. Though to honest I’m skeptical that 5 AL teams are 10:1 or better while only the Phillies are better than 15:1 at 5.5:1
There is always the possibility of a typo by espn. When I saw that, I paused the TV and wrote those numbers down because I was in such shock.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Also gauge. If they fall for that, imagine what else they’ll fall for!
GMAT verbal section question, Philadelphia sports version.
In 2015, which one of the following will prove to be a better investment?
(a) Ilya Bryzgalov's contract (b) Ryan Howard's extension (c) Mike Vick's extension (d) Greek bonds from 2009 (e) Papelbon's bloat deal
These odds add to 125%
Which is really good for this kind of bet
1001 Atlanta Braves +2200
1002 Arizona Diamondbacks +2800
1003 Baltimore Orioles +12500
1004 Boston Red Sox +1050
1005 Chicago Cubs +4100
1006 Chicago White Sox +5500
1007 Cincinnati Reds +2500
1008 Cleveland Indians +6300
1009 Colorado Rockies +3100
1010 Detroit Tigers +860
1011 Miami Marlins +2100
1012 Houston Astros +21000
1013 Kansas City Royals +8500
1014 LA Angels of Anaheim +825
1015 LA Dodgers +4100
1016 Milwaukee Brewers +3400
1017 Minnesota Twins +9000
1018 NY Mets +9000
1019 NY Yankees +670
1020 Oakland A’s +8800
1021 Philadelphia Philles +550
1022 Pittsburgh Pirates +10500
1023 San Diego Padres +12500
1024 San Francisco Giants +2000
1025 Seattle Mariners +15000
1026 St Louis Cardinals +2200
1027 Tampa Bay Rays +2000
1028 Texas Rangers +1050
1029 Toronto Blue Jays +4500
1030 Washington Nationals +3000
Vaughn, how do the betting-illiterate read this?
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
For example, +2300 = 23 to 1
The number in front is the just the id number for the bet.
125%= sum of 100 / (100+ odds) for each listing. That means that if the house gets equal action on every listing, they would take in $12500 and only have to pay out $10000.
by Vaughn Haze on Jan 25, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Equal action meaning equal exposure. The actual amount bet on each bet on each team is proportional to
100 / (100 + odds)
For example, if they had $1000 on the Rays at +2000, and $500 on the Dodgers at +4100 the house would be indifferent as to which team won. $21000 is going back to the bettors regardless.
by Vaughn Haze on Jan 25, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
I wonder how often the pre-season favorite either a) wins the WS, or b) is arguably the best team for that season.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
Tough to look up histories for these. I believe the Phillies were the favorite last season as well. Probably hasn’t been a World Series winner as preseason favorite since the 2000 Yankees.
I spot-checked (by googled search) the 2007 Red Sox (Yankees were favored) and the 2009 Yankees (Red Sox were favored). I am pretty sure none of the other teams that won looked like favorites before the season.
2008 Phillies were +2550 according to one old blog post, in a vegas-style (poor odds) market.
I liked Exxon. I will miss him until he kicks our ass one game.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
i will miss you Quark
sniff
Why look'st thou so?' -"With my crossbow
I shot the Albatross."
by RememberthePhitans on Jan 25, 2012 8:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What if...
MLB added an offseason “Must Trade” rule, in which, say, five randomly selected teams would be forced to trade the one player who, in the course of the season, defied all logic and dominated another team for a game in bona fide Player of the Game fashion. Let’s call it the “PWNED Trade Rule.” Each team, so selected, would then be allowed to take a player from a different team who dominated them in a similar way. These players must be fringy roster-filler types, back-end bullpennery, or September call-ups.
Let’s say this trade was in effect, the Phillies were selected, and had to trade Valdez to the Reds. Per the rule, they in turn get to select a candidate from the 2011 season.
Who do the Phillies get? Skip Schumaker? Jason Giambi? Opine.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 25, 2012 8:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Giambi, those three bombs will forever haunt my and Kyle Kendrick’s dreams.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Must agree. Giambi 3 bombs KK still is the stuff of nightmares.
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."
At CBP before the KK night the whole stadium chanted “You did steroids” as Madson got him out. Good stuff.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 25, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
and if I had to choose one from last year, though I hate saying this disgusting name, cody ross. His name doesn’t even deserve capitalization.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
two years ago*
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Cody F. Ross to the Red Sox, to (as the MLB Hot Stove guys said last night) give them the character that they so obviously lacked last September. Paraphrasing, but that was the gist.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
By lacking do they mean not enough douchebags?
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I think they were okay in that department...
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it’s like Danzig. He really buys into his own shit . And the song syncs up quite nicely with that gif.
This reminded me, last night on SiriusXM, one of the hosts argued that Jeff Francouer was a good clubhouse presence for the Royals because he can (paraphrasing) explain what it’s like to not live up to expectations.
by topherstarr on Jan 26, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
But the Royals have no expectations.
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 26, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
It’d have to be Ronny Paulino, right?
by philsandthrills on Jan 25, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Biaz.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Jan 26, 2012 6:31 AM EST up reply actions
Ehh, his deep fly ball ratio is pretty high anyway, just a matter of time till those become homers.
"I'm terrible" - Ilya Bryzgalov
I giggled.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
by VanceinmyPants on Jan 25, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a good read at 2:06 in the morning:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7480753/bill-james-100-best-pitchers-duels-2011
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde
Can you still have now, Wilson?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRnueJP2k9A
"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."
#FireRoseman
@boknows71
August 20, 2012
Wilson Valdez (and that Madson guy) triumphantly returns to Citizens Bank Park.
I’m ordering tickets and taking the next day off. The Phillies and Reds have had a lot of awesome games the past two seasons. The 19 inning game, Doc’s no-hitter, this, the Wood near-perfect game, all of those extra inning/comeback games in 2010.
Sign me up!
Seems an odd trade for the Reds (though so low risk, that who cares). They already have 2 SS on the 40 man and Todd Frazier can back up second and third (not to mention Juan Fransico). It’s a depth deal for both sides, I guess, but the Reds don’t seem to have a shortage of depth there.
Glorious.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 27, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
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