Brad Lidge, Nationals agree on deal
Brad Lidge, the erstwhile Phillies closer who famously got the final out of the 2008 World Series, and almost as famously produced one of the worst seasons in relief pitching history the next year, has reportedly agreed to terms with the Washington Nationals.
Light your candles below. Good luck, Brad.
4 months ago
WholeCamels
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Thanks Brad
My 28 year-long Philadelphia sports fandom would still be void of a championship if it weren’t for Brad Lidge. Best of luck! (at least when the Nats aren’t playing the Phillies and as long as they aren’t in contention)
Weebles
I will miss them. Godspeed, Mr. Lidge.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
I guess the Nats need to spend all that money they had in the Prince Fielder fund.
by topherstarr on Jan 26, 2012 11:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Not looking forward to facing him
He strikes me as the kind of pitcher who will own the Phillies, given his propensity for throwing pitches out of the strike zone and the Phillies’ propensity for swinging at pitches out of the strike zone
uh huh
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jan 26, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah I suppose you're right
Looking at the stats the Phillies were 2nd in the NL in (least) strikeouts. I guess I’ve just been watching too many Ryan Howard at-bats (and I know that’s stereotypical to say about Ryan Howard, I do still love Ryan Howard)
by EaglesPhan53 on Jan 26, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
also, to be fair, Lidge’s slider is still really good… if he faces the Phillies, and is able to get ahead of the count, he can easily strike any number of them out, because that slider is still virtually unhittable, not because they swing at a lot of bad pitches
Yeah, if he has command of his fastball (and he might in any given year, you never know), then he’ll help that team.
Even Jamie Moyer can throw a fastball. Granted, Lidge’s fastball is not very fast anymore, but that doesn’t matter if you have a great trick pitch, which he does. His fastball is still a LOT faster than Trevor Hoffman’s was when Hoffman was still a top-flight closer. I don’t think Lidge has it in him to be a top-flight closer anymore but he can still contribute a lot as long as he can avoid throwing his slow fastball in the middle of the plate.
…fastball is not very fast anymore, but that doesn’t matter if you have a great trick pitch, which he does. His fastball is still a LOT faster than Trevor Hoffman’s was when Hoffman was still a top-flight closer.
This, incidentally, is why I much preferred Madson over Papelbon.
by 88Lindros88 on Jan 27, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Average
According to FanGraphs the Phillies O-Swing%, or the percentage of pitches a batter swings at outside the strike zone, is 30.8% with is 8th in the NL, so I suppose they’re neither disciplined nor un-disciplined.
by EaglesPhan53 on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Why the Nats?! :(
"This team (Philadelphia Eagles) gives me the best chance of winning a Super Bowl."
-Michael Vick #7
“It’s two o’clock in the morning, and Miss America ain’t walking through that door.”
by taco pal on Jan 26, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can see that you are lonesome just like me, and it being late,
You’d like some some company,
Well I turn around to look at you, and you look back at me,
The guy you’re with has up and split, the chair next to you’s free,
And I hope that you don’t fall in love with me.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 26, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
?
If you fall for me, I’m not easy to please;
I’m’a tear you apart. Told you from the start, baby from the start:
I’m only gonna break, break ya, break, break ya heart.
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 27, 2012 3:51 AM EST up reply actions
Nats are in a spending frenzy, so I assume he’s gonna get much more there then anywhere else.
"I'm terrible" - Ilya Bryzgalov
It seems like a lot to spend on a guy who appeared in 25 games last year and has missed time the last three years due to injury.
All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jan 26, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
OT, but BLS headline on right says “Prince Fielder, Miguel Cabrera weigh only 130 pounds less than entire ’84 Tigers infield”.
Fatties.
"I wouldn’t run if there was a fire. I wouldn’t run anywhere. I hate running." - O. Munn
If a tweet isn’t enough, here’s a whole story.
It was a bad offseason for teams that were looking to pounce on relievers early for a little cost certainty. The Giants exercised a $5 million option on Jeremy Affeldt, the Twins re-signed Matt Capps for $4.5 million (and gave up a supplemental draft pick), and the Phillies signed Jonathan Papelbon for nine years and $214 million, or something close to it.
grumble
considering what other relievers have been getting this offseason, that Papelbon deal sticks out even worse than the Howard deal, for me at least.
All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia
by Veni Vidi Vici on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Just out of curiosity, what would have been a fair deal in your view? Remember Bell got 3/27 and he’s well below Papelbon’s value.
You’re assuming Bell got a fair deal, but his was probably a pretty significant overpay as well. Ryan Madson is a better comp for Papelbon than Heath Bell, but you don’t cite his contract.
Another way to look at it: Jimmy Rollins has put up 3 more fWAR than Papelbon over the last three seasons (WAR for releivers is problematic because of how it includes leverage, but since Papelbon was a closer all three years, he was in the best possible situation to accumulate WAR). So if Jimmy’s deal is fair (most people seem to think it is), a fair deal for Papelbon is probably 2/$17 million with a vesting option for the third year. If another team is willing to pay more, then let him go there.
Madon’s contract is Boras’s way to get him back on the market next winter. Oh and BTW he’s still making 8.5 mil this season. You dont think he had multi-year offers?
No question Boras misread the market and they had to punt. On the other hand, Bell seized on the Marlins desire to make a splash.
And I basically agree with what Joecatz said below. If he was set on Papelbon, Amaro probably could have gotten into a bidding war and still got him at a better price and saved the draft pick. I would prefer not to spend 3/36 or 4/40 for any closer, but I guess I see the other side of the argument even if I disagree.
If the Phillies wait on the market, do the Marlins jump in and set the market by signing Papelbon? If so, what would they have given him?
I’m playing around with the idea that maybe the Marlins would have signed him to 4 for $44 or whatever, in which case maybe you would have had the Phillies competing with the Reds and Rangers for Madson, Bell, and Nathan, with Madson possibly getting offered 3 for $33 or 4 for $42? So many variables though.
I could live with Madson or Bell, in lieu of Papelbon. There’s a drop off, but it’s a relatively inconsequential position overall, so it wouldn’t faze me much.
I agree, but Bell is a perfectly fine relief pitcher, and I wouldn’t have been upset if he were what was left for us to sign.
I would have been. Bell <<< Madson/Papelbon going forward.
by philsandthrills on Jan 26, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with yola on this one. Bell seems like he will produce something akin to how Matt Capps will, going forward. I would be glad to give Madson 1.5 times his money (~$7m/year) and 3 guaranteed years. I just don’t see the two (Bell and Madson) being worth anywhere near equivalent amounts.
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 26, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
3/36 or 4/40 two weeks later than it happened.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
by Joecatz on Jan 26, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And I say that based on what someone should have paid for Papelbon as the beat closer available and probably second best in the game assuming
1. You value the closers role
2. You want him and no one else.
I neither support or agree with 1 or 2, but am in the if were gnna wast money on a closer, at least we wasted it on the best one.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Ok, so in your view they signed him for a year too long OR about 2.5Mil/year than they should have. To me that’s a slight overpay, unlike Howard’s deal where its looking like they overpaid by 10s of millions.
Um…No It’s still a pretty big overpay. especially considering:
1) we lost a draft pick
2) if it vests (and its a pretty easy vest) it ends up being 21mm more on a 5 year deal.
3) the longer the deal, the higher the risk.
any deal for a relief pitcher more than 3 years is just silly as silly can be.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
1. Yes, that was dumb
2. If it vests, he’s healthy. And if he’s healthy he’s likely earning his slightly overpaid money.
3. Depends on the pitcher
2. Healthy and effective are two different things.
It vests with 55 games finished in 2015 or 100 in 14-15. If you took his games finished in 2008-2009 and apply them to 14-15, then his option would vest BEFORE the all star break of 2015.
if he blew his shoulder out in the second half we’;re still on the hook. If he loses his command, his fastball, anything, we still pay him.
3. Agreed. I would sign Mariano Rivera to a 4 year deal. Thats my list.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Howard would have gotten the same type of deal or better if he hadn’t torn his Achilles and hit the open market. I dont see the deal being as bad as I do the logic behind how and when it happened.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
The lesson here is that the first base and closer markets are out of whack, so money is better spent elsewhere.
I agree, but it doesn’t mean it was an overpay. If Pujols and fielder had signed 5 year deals at 20mm per then that’s a different story.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Depends on how you define “overpay”. Based on how an inefficient market values power-hitting firstbasemen, it’s not an overpay. Relative to what the player’s skillset actually contributes to winning baseball games, huge overpay.
the problem to me with the term “overpay” is that we tend to throw it around as much based on our own opinions regarding how we would allocate money, as opposed to what the reality of the market is.
I didn’t like the Howard deal at the time, I like it even less today, and if we hadn’t extended Howard, even if he wasn’t injured right now, i wouldn’t have pursued him, fielder OR Pujols if I was running the team. But I can’t say it was an “overpay” after seeing the LUDICROUS deals Fielder and Pujols got.
I actually think that RAJ judged how the market would play out and what it would cost to resign him then vs. now pretty well. He guessed wrong when it came to injury, health, decline, etc…
It was, and is, a bad deal, but he’d have gotten at least that from someone else on the open market if not more.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Yeah I mean part of the problem with the Howard deal is we assumed all the risk (extending him 1.5 years out) and didn’t get a discount.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 26, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Even during his infamous struggles, the guy was the definition of class, standing by his locker and owning his mistakes.
And regardless of those troubles, 2008 doesn’t happen without him, pure & simple. The failures and injuries of the last few years will fade from our memories, but the 2008 Philadelphia Phillies will always be the World Phucking Champions, and that’s due in very large part to Lidge.
Thanks for the trophy, man. You’ll forever be synonymous with one of the greatest sports moments in the city’s history and the greatest I’ve ever experienced. Fare thee well.
by Chutley's Impressed by Mac's Speed on Jan 26, 2012 1:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The Lights are Out
I saw this and my first reaction was laughter, because Brad Lidge to the Nationals was the most unexpected result of his free agency I could conceive of. But I am going to miss the guy. For all his struggles in 2009, he was still one of the better relievers we had the other three years, injuries aside. I’m going to miss having that nasty slider making batters look stupid on a regular basis, even though they know it’s coming.
Hopefully that arm has a few more successful years in it.
100 saves, 1 WFC
Thanks, Brad.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
Do we all agree on Brown?
Should be start in LF and be allowed to play no matter what he does? I see a lot of “Mayberry in LF, Thome at 1B” stuff that worries me.
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
by Dr. Steve on Jan 26, 2012 2:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I saw that. I don’t like that he said it, though.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
It’s only going to foster more negativity for Brown if he doesn’t win the job, and it’s going to hike his expectations almost unreasonably if he does win the job. It’s a lose-lose for Dom.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
*expectations for him, I should say…
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think competion is always good. If it makes him and JR work that much harder what’s the downside? Amaro already established that the plan is for Brown to spend ’12 in AAA and winning the job would just be a bonus.
I should note, as everyone else has probably already noticed by now, that Amaro did not actually say that LF would be an open competition. (Again, reading is fundamental.) What he said was that Brown could conceivably win the job. He did not say the two would be anywhere near even footing.
I still think that was an error on Ruben’s part to say that, but it wasn’t as egregious as it would have been if he had actually said there’d be an open competition.
And he’s always around. We tried trading him twice.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
They might
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I was sort of conflating things there. I was thinking of 2010, when every time they tried to ship Kendrick out, somebody would get hurt.
Who arrived in 2011 that made you “obsolete?”
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of think you’re more like the Dom Brown, we always expect greatness from you, no one gives you a break, tons of people dislike you for just being you, youre often misunderstood by the common fan…
No idea of your ethnic background, and without that I can’t comment on you lack of hustle.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I can’t comment on the hustle, but I do remember a character-revealing DUI where he tried to use a taco as his driver’s license…
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
In case you’ve forgotten, here’s the post.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
dammit, I didn’t see this till I posted in response to the above.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 26, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
if he ever passes his physical we’ll be ok.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 26, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
In Nikk’s defense I think he’s right on this one. People will interpret it as him saying equal competition. It won’t matter what was actually said (Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet, for example).
Yeah, I think most fans will interpret this as “Dom has a chance to win Mayberry’s rightful place in left field.” I think most have assumed Mayberry in left is a given, and the possibilty that Dom might take it from him is unacceptable.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree as far as that goes. That’s exactly why I think it was an error – because some people (though only some) will likely misinterpret it. Nevertheless, what he said is what he said. Nikk, as usual, is changing his position in the middle of the conversation and pretending like he didn’t. It’s the pretending that I object to.
Perhaps, I can’t speak for others. Nevertheless, my objection is based on fact. You started out by saying that there would be an open competition in ST according to Ruben. I pointed out that Ruben did not say that there would be an open competition. You then insisted you were right because people would interpret Ruben as saying there would be a competition. That changed your original statement in two ways. Your refusal to acknowledge this irritates me. If others aren’t irritated, then that’s fine – no one’s ever required to feel a certain way about something.
I’m starting to sense a pattern here.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
In TP’s defense, not that he needs it, but:
“It doesn’t matter what his exact words were, most people would interpret it as competition.”
Sounds like an argument to me. I can’t stand when people use this tactic of “Why are you being so argumentative” when they are arguing just as much, but are losing.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 26, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
You seem to do it a lot.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Took me a second, but I got it.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
So Dom would have to blow Mayberry out of the water.
That’s fine, I suppose, but then I also believe that Spring Training stats carry close to zero weight in how well the player will do during the regular season. So even if Brown does tear up the Grapefruit League, that’s little reason to think he’ll tear up the National League.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think the team would love for him to justify a roster spot in ST. And if he makes the team, he should get lots of playing time, especially since they can use JR to play 1st base.
And if he makes the team, heshouldhad better get lots of playing time
That’s the only way he’s going to grow into being a major leaguer. They can’t keep jerking him around the way they have been.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yes refer to him as Yayberry, Isoberry, or Triton
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 26, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa, whoa, whoa. JR is me and we all know that I’m raging drunk black man who plays the blues. Honest I do.
/apologize for the harp mix. ice pickin’ the ears. studio engineer should have been fired.
Ruben never says anything to the media without a reason behind it though. I take this as a good sign that the internal reports on Brown are very positive. He’s been very careful to shy away from talking about Brown at all this offseason.
My money is still on Brown to break camp with the big club.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Did he play in winter ball this offseason?
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
no winter ball. no fall league, just a man, a bat, some soaps, a camera, and a completely healed hamate bone on a journey of discovery.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Dom was called up last year right around the time we found out my wife was pregnant. I remember thinking what a better role model he would be for my children than the Phillies of my youth: Kruk, Daulton, Dykstra. Then that soap picture came out, and I was like “aw, man”.
by topherstarr on Jan 26, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, who actually gives a shit about that?
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
people who get really dry skin when they wash their hands too often?
the innocent bacteria slaughtered in Brown’s one-man crusade against household contaminants?
I COULD GO ON
by perfectdepth on Jan 26, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
the risk from Ruben to say something, or the risk to let Brown compete?
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
It’s a slow build… a small step towards rebranding him, rebuilding his image with the fans…
It’s the way he answered the question, too. It was the first time that he opened the door to the possibility, as opposed to just saying, the standard “wherever he plays he needs to play everyday”
Trust me. Browns MASHING somewhere. And Ruben knows it.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Well, I hope so. I don’t have a very strong opinion on whether Brown should start the season here or in Lehigh, but expectations management is an important part of any executive’s job.
I’d heard Ruben say something similar about Brown a few weeks ago, incidentally. But not before that.
I should also note that even Dom is mashing somewhere, the thing he really needed/needs to work on is his fielding.
Perhaps, but it still makes me laugh every time I see the nitwits on Philly.com trashing Brown’s defense just before begging to pick up someone whose defense is also terrible.
I’m of the mind that outfield defense, especially the corner positions, are lowest on the scale of how critical good defense is to each position.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I am tired of the Brown coddling.
Let me be clear that I think Brown shows great potential and has all the tools to be a very successful player. I haven’t written him off and expect that he will put it all together.
But whether he does or not shouldn’t depend on managing his ‘fragile psyche’. The good players play well and prove their worth whether they are starting in the majors, starting in the minors, coming off the bench or being called up and sent down in erratic fashion.
That’s not to say it doesn’t affect them or make it harder, but if you are at that level and you let things of that nature phase you or detract from your focus, you’ve gotten as much as you deserve. No major league player has ever completed a career without experiencing harsh circumstances or periods of self(or public)-doubt.
So if Brown is going to succeed, he is going to have to do it, regardless of how fair his circumstances are.
I think there’s a difference between (1) recognizing that Dom is ultimately responsible for how he does regardless of the circumstances, and (2) having a choice to make those circumstances less or more difficult and consciously choosing the latter. Why would you do that? Is there anything to be gained from doing that here?
I agree with there being a difference. I don’t necessarily agree with the degree to which (2) should be relevant to whether he ultimately ends up a success. I don’t think having read the statement in question that Ruben’s words will prove to be very consequential.
Actually, if anything, telling a hungry player (who until now ostensibly believed there was not an opportunity) that the door is open (however slightly) would be welcomed news. How such an obvious statement (“if he is good enough and ready we will play him”) will affect peoples’ expectations is beyond anyone’s control. But saying he has a chance to make the squad this season isn’t really a revelation, just more confirmation that the club still considers him a valid option should he prove to be ready.
The issue here is that I don’t think Brown’s readiness will solely or even primarily be a function of his effort. I’m not worried about his hitting at all. His problem area is defense, especially with the move to left. To improve, he doesn’t just need effort, he also needs time and repetitions and practice. Maybe he’s had enough time. Maybe not. I don’t think it’s wise to create a situation, either in his mind or in the minds of observers, in which it’s assumed that he’ll win the job out of ST as long as he plays hard enough. That may not be an accurate assumption.
In that case, the only thing I would say is that the statement didn’t really establish a set criteria for him to win the job. Whether effort is all, part or none of the criteria is not something that is clear to me, though I suspect it is at least part. However, I also believe he will have to demonstrate better reads on fly balls, make better decisions with the ball, and position himself better as well as exert consistent effort to prove he’s ready.
I can agree that the responsibility lies with Amaro and the coaching staff to be very clear with Brown on what that criteria is, even if they aren’t with the fans. If they aren’t, then they should shoulder some of the blame.
The part of this post I take exception to is fragile psyche.
Who says he has a fragile psyche? I think that’s something that e general fanbase assumes for no reason at all. If he had a fragile psyche he’d be gone by now.
The organizatton mishandled him for two years, and is dong everything they can to reverse that now. But I don’t know anyone anywhere who can prove that Brown has a ‘fragile psyche’
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
To be fair, I don’t read Sabas to be saying that Brown has a fragile psyche. What he/she’s saying is that he/she’s not worried about creating a bad PR environment around Brown because that won’t affect him negatively unless he has a fragile psyche, in which case he either wouldn’t have succeeded anyway or didn’t deserve to succeed anyway.
I don’t really agree with that, but that’s a separate issue.
I put it in quotations for that very reason.
I did not mean to imply he had a fragile psyche, only that the franchise shouldn’t deal with him as though he did. Stating that a player has a shot (however slight it may be) to make a roster during spring training, should not affect their mental state in any meaningful negative way. It should be taken as a positive, so long as the criteria to be met in order to win that spot is clearly stated and reasonable.
taco pal assessed my meaning correctly except that I don’t believe creating a bad PR environment affects only players with fragile psyches. I just believe, in this instance, for the statement in question to have a meaningful negative impact Brown’s psyche would have to be awfully fragile, in which case his career in the majors would be awfully contingent on things going perfectly from here on out.
Also to be clear..
I don’t think the organization has done a very good job handling Brown thus far either. I just don’t really think at this point that they would be mainly to blame should he end up a bust. Mostly, I just think the affect this statement should have is minimal, and has been blown slightly out of proportion. It didn’t really say anything other than that they still think of Brown as a valid option. To me that’s a good thing.
Because he knows something we don’t and it’s not really a risk?
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
There’s always a risk. It may get bigger or smaller, but there’s no such thing as zero risk. Anyway, I don’t see the point in taking even a small risk if there’s no discernible upside.
All that said, whatever. It’s not a huge deal.
Yeah I mean to the extent that there is an advantage to having Brown fight for a spot, I don’t see the advantage of letting the public know he fought for the spot. If you compare the two worlds where he does well, one where the public knows he fought and one where they didn’t, then the result is the same—Dom is the man. If you compare the two worlds where he flops, in the world where no one knows he was trying there is no harms whereas if the public knows he was trying and he fails you might get something like this: http://www.thegoodphight.com/2011/8/30/2392807/domonic-brown-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-day-in
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 26, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
They could always just put Mayberry at first, and Brown in left.
by phillies0100 on Jan 26, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
He’s played at first before in his career. It might not be the best plan, but it gets both him and Brown into the lineup on a daily basis.
by phillies0100 on Jan 26, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously, but unless Howard’s leg falls off next month, he’ll be back at some point in 2012. Hence, this would be temporary.
So his basis is the Phillies carrying $7.5mm of dead weight every year and getting what in return? The Brewers have one of the worst talent pipelines in baseball. Everrett was clearly talking straight out his ass.
Forget the talent pipeline. If we’re making unrealistic trade proposals, I hear Zack Greinke is good. Ryan Howard and $40 million for Greinke. Get it done, Ruben!
Forget the talent pipeline.
Not necessarily. If he had said We would trade him to the Cardinals or the Blue Jays, I would think maybe it had legs. Both those team have good systems right now that we could extract value from to make it a modestly reasonable idea. Everrett’s mistake was picking a team with a really barren system. For Howard and 30% of the contract, I want Ryan Braun and Carlos Gomez, plus a PTBNL.
Now that you mention it, with the way some front offices still value slugging 1B, maybe it isn’t that crazy. All cash in a deal counts towards the luxury tax in the year it is paid, so my first thought was that there is no way the Phillies take a $37.5 million luxury tax hit all in one season. But as long as you don’t take back another 8 figure salary, you’re still probably in a better luxury tax position than you are now.
I still think it’s bullshit, though I don’t really know anything about Everrett more than what doubleh said above.
Yeah, eff that guy.
But it does unintentionally raise a semi interesting question. If
(1) Joey Votto goes on the open market in two years
(2) Howard doesn’t bounce back (or even gets worse)
(3) You can get sufficiently under budget at multiple other positions
Then could it possibly make sense to eat the rest of Howard’s salary and double up on enormous contracts at first base?
Of course provided Votto is still playing well also. It may depend on what Howard can do. If he ends up like Thome and can still hit, but not run great and not play the field much, he could be a great trade chip to the AL. That would be a no-brainer. Short of that, it would be tough to eat that big contract and still have a top FA 1B. It would seem to be at least $40-$50+mm PER YEAR in one position.
Okay, here’s a scenario where this idea isn’t bat shit crazy:
Mid June 2012
John Mayberry Jr. is the every day First Baseman and sports a triple slash of, let’s say, .275/.349/.576, he’s cranked out 17 homers and is playing good D. Meanwhile in Left Field Dom Brown won the job out of ST, and has a triple slash of .274/.395/.490.
Mid July 2012
Ryan Howard returns and the combination of rest and hard work to recover from his injury, he comes out on fire and posts the best line (through the end of the season) since 2009, but his Defense is terrible, as he’s lost some range, and he doesn’t run the bases as well. It doesn’t appear that he’s favoring the injury or possibly suffering set backs, he’s just lost a step. Additionally, Tyson Gillies destroyed AA and was promoted to Lehigh in June, where he posted a .400 OBP and stole 38 bases, the speed is still there. And Mini-Mart has become a capable utility player.
Winter Meetings 2012
Ruben realizes he has a surplus of players. Gillies can play Center in 2013, possibly with a stop gap FA as insurance (or Victorino on a 1 year Arb contrac)t to start while Gillies seasons in Lehigh. Mayberry can be the everyday 1B with Brown as everyday LF.
In this scenario, I think it’s realistic that Howard +20% of his salary gets traded for prospects to, let’s say, the Cardinals (Berman’s pushing 40, and they have no 1B prospects) for Tyrell Jenkins, Matt Carpenter and a PTBNL.
by Cormican on Jan 27, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
were such awesome things to all happen, it strikes me that, instead, Amaro would feel further justified in the Howard extension, be pleased he’s still got him locked up, and instead just let Victorino walk, and have Mayberry handle center (or something similar)
by yolacrary on Jan 27, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just posted a similar thing in the other thread. It still isn’t likely, but you are right, it isn’t bat-shit crazy.
by topherstarr on Jan 27, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
aside from the fact that Vic doesn’t have arbitration remaining and is gonna command a multi year deal, thats pretty interesting.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I’m not so sure. I would rather have Mayberry start in LF for a few reasons.
- it gives Brown more time to mature in AAA through the start of the season.
- It would sure be nice to know if his 2nd 1/2 of last season was an aberration or, if he’s for real turned the tide.
- If he (Mayberry) sinks than bringing up Brown in a “you’re replacing a -WAR player” there isn’t as much pressure on him mentally & the fan base will be more incline to get on board if he doesn’t lite up the world.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
by h2o_34_35_44 on Jan 27, 2012 6:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Was there an over/under on "best shape of his life" quotes?
From the Amaro interview article Nikk.m referenced above:
“Ryan’s the kind of guy – and I guess this is one of the reasons why we signed him to two long-term deals in a row – is that even when he signed a multiyear deal, he was still working very hard,” Amaro said. "He’s gotten himself into better shape than he’s ever been in.
Jesus, that was fast.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 26, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
The latest from Casey Feeney
There are many ways to predict how a baseball team will perform during a 162-game season. Some are very scientific, others are pure speculation. Most of them end up being wrong. But if you can’t miss the mark in a blog (and judging from your comments, I frequently do), where can you be wrong?
Schmenkman is getting to him.
Say what you want
but without brad lidge, the curse of billy penn still exists and the phillies might have never became this perennial powerhouse that they are today. Thank you brad for all you have done, and good look in washington
Without Lights Out Lidge (LoL) the Phils would have taken a different path, surely, but The Curse of Billy the Penn didn’t exist in the first place, so I give him no credit for that.
I do credit him for reaching and winning the WFC though, so at least he has that.
by 88Lindros88 on Jan 26, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brad Lidge
Good times. Now we will groan every time we see him pitch against us, because he’ll find a way to be in ’08 form against us. Somehow.
"You play to win the playoffs, and we let 'em off the hook!" -Herm Mora Green
That was pretty great. I found myself commenting to my wife that it was “pretty great that they could get him,” before realizing that the Phanatic is not, in fact, real.
Well sure it is. I mean, there isn’t a real giant furry thing that lives in the Galapagos, but there is a suit, and it is owned and controlled by the team, and it is pretty slick that it could make an appearance.
Besides, it’s better than Mr. Metropolitan.
They tried to get Mr. Met on the show, but he's still in anger management
Fare thee well, JM. In my book, you were the Greatest.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7890127&c_id=mlb
by Missing Jamie Moyer on Jan 27, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
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