If the Phillies Send Domonic Brown to Triple-A, That's Okay
by taco pal on Jan 30, 2012 12:45 PM EST
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There seems to be a touch of consternation in some quarters over the many (though not entirely consistent) comments from the Phillies' front office this offseason indicating that Domonic Brown will be sent to AAA out of spring training and could stay there all year. "How can they rank Brown behind crappy Laynce Nix on the depth chart?"
Those feelings are understandable, but I think they're an overreaction. There are a lot of Dom haters in this town who, for various irrational reasons, would like the team to simply dispose of him, and they are idiots. But just because some fans want the front office to do X and the front office is planning to do X doesn't mean that the front office is planning to do X for the same reason why the fans want it to do X.
In my view, there are a decent number of grounds for doubting that Ruben Amaro shares these fans' opinions of Brown. But more to the point, I don't think it's worthwhile to try to read Ruben's mind here. His "true thoughts" are opaque to us. Instead of debating whether or not "Ruben hates Dom," everyone's time would be better spent debating the plan to send him to AAA on its own merits.
And on its merits, the plan is defensible. I'm not necessarily saying it's what I would do, but neither do I think it's clearly wrong. In saying that, I grant both of the following points. First, the Phillies have mishandled Brown. I don't think their mishandling of him has been as consistent of a pattern as some do, but the front office definitely called him up too soon in 2010, perhaps influenced by the ignorant clamoring of the same fans who have now turned on him (if only someone had warned them!). Then they inexplicably kept him on the bench for the rest of the season when he should have been back in AAA continuing to work on stuff. Second, Laynce Nix is not a very good player, and Brown is almost definitely better than he is already.
So if Brown is better than Nix, then how can Nix be more entitled to a roster spot than Brown? Well, the easy answer is: Do you really want Brown to have Nix's spot? Nix might be on the roster but he isn't going to play every day. My guess is that he'll start less than half the time even while Ryan Howard is out (and obviously, he'll start even less often after Howard gets back). Brown is, in a sense, overqualified for Nix's job. I don't want him here just to sit on the bench for the majority of the games.
Well, you might say, you wouldn't necessarily have to keep Brown in Nix's role. While Howard's on the DL, you could instead make Brown the full-time LF and Mayberry the full-time 1B. Fair enough. But what happens when Howard gets back? If you think the Phillies have mishandled Brown by shuttling him back and forth between Philadelphia and Allentown for the last year-and-a-half, why would you set up a situation where it would be very likely that you'd have to do the exact same thing in one month's time?
Basically, the point is this: in any decisionmaking process that involves Brown, the #1 priority that the Phillies have to consider is how to maximize Brown's long-term development. When you look through that lens, comparisons between Brown and Nix (or whoever) become irrelevant. Yes, part-time Brown would probably help the team a bit more than part-time Nix would. Yes, one month of full-time Brown would probably help the team a bit more than one month of Nix and Jim Thome splitting that pool of plate appearances would. But so what? It's almost impossible to overstate how crucially important Brown's long-term development is to the future of this franchise. Any short-term hit that the 2012 squad takes is meaningless if there's a payoff in the form of Dom becoming a better player in 2013, 2014, 2015, and beyond.
So will sending Brown to the minors and letting him get steady playing time for two/three/four months actually give us that payoff of helping his long-term development? Heck if I know. But neither do you. This is one of those matters on which sabermetrics has little to say to us. The answer depends on a number of subjective factors that are idiosyncratic to Brown and unknowable to those of us who get all our news from the papers. It also depends on how he's been doing in his offseason workouts, which, again, is something we know nothing about.
But could it be the right move for Brown's long-term development? Of course it could. For one thing, even though Brown's performance as a rookie was perfectly fine at the plate, the fact is that his defense wasn't good at all. His UZR/150 was more than 4 runs worse than Raul Ibanez's, albeit at a slightly more difficult position, and his Rtot/yr was 10 runs worse than Raul's. That's why Brown had a fWAR of 0.0, and why he might have been below-average for a major league RF even without bad luck on balls in play or the lingering aftereffects of his spring hamate injury. I'm not too worried about his ability to eventually correct his defensive problems, but if he still has a lot left to work on after the offseason, then the place to work on it is in the minors, where the consequences of any screw-ups don't really matter.
I also don't dismiss the possibility that Brown's development could be negatively affected by (1) getting "jerked around" again between MLB and AAA, or (2) getting booed if the booing becomes really harsh, or (3) putting undue pressure on himself to avoid getting booed. SabasTheHut and I had a dialogue in the Lidge thread the other day on whether it's "coddling" Brown to be concerned about this type of stuff. My personal, unscientific opinion is that it's too simplistic to say successful players always overcome mental stress and if a player is defeated by a particular episode of, say, fan hostility, then there's no need to feel bad about it because that just reveals that he was destined to be defeated eventually anyway. Rather, I suspect that the degree and timing of hostility can make a difference in a player's career. Or to put it another way, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with "coddling" a player. I also don't think that every successful player in the big leagues overcame that much adversity to get there -- some of them had it relatively easy, and maybe their careers would have turned out differently if they hadn't.
All this is to say that if you really want to defend Brown from his idiot haters, the way to do it isn't by setting him up to fail under the bright lights of CBP. The priority shouldn't be on winning the argument but on advocating what's best for him and, by extension, what's best for the organization. Right now, no one knows, one way or the other, whether playing in Philadelphia now would be best for him, and unless and until that changes, no one should insist that the front office send him here. And if the front office wants to set expectations low in the meantime, that seems perfectly reasonable. In combatting the folks who like to accuse Brown of being crippled by numerous "unfixable" flaws, the correct counterargument isn't that he doesn't really have any flaws at all, because he clearly did have some in 2011. Instead, the correct counterargument is that the faults he has are correctable, and his potential remains very great. If Dom displays significant improvement in the field for an extended period of time and the Phillies are still keeping him in AAA, then we can start complaining about it. But only then.
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I should link to this blog post from The Hardball Times, which sort of stole my thunder on this topic (and which I didn’t read until after I’d written most of this piece – honest!). I’d like to think this article still has some value-added though.
Also, I was disappointed just now to see that David Cameron of Fangraphs fame parachuted in from Seattle with some warmed-over Dom Brown twitter snark of his own. I certainly can’t complain about anyone being snarky as such, but if you’re going to do it, your snark had better reflect a position that’s well thought out. This didn’t. To make the obvious explicit, there isn’t one single “depth chart” in baseball. This isn’t the NFL. Being a major league benchwarmer is not necessarily an intermediate step between being a minor league prospect and a major league starter.
Thank you!
Not sure where all this complaining is coming from, but it’s completely unfounded. You might also have linked to the fangraphs article by Paul Swydan that seems to make the argument that a minor league signing of Pierre was bad because it blocks Dom Brown. Just bizarre…first time I’ve seen a minor league pickup panned.
I always scoffed at the tinfoil hit folks who insisted FG had it in for the Phil’s because they disliked the front office, but now I dunno…
Matt Swartz, Fuqua, and one of the Seidmans have all been affiliated with Fangraphs at one point or another, so I really doubt there’s any sort of bias going on here. Same goes for Keith Law. I think he’s kind of an idiot, but he’s like that with every team.
No, I think what’s going on here is just the natural tendency of people to use heuristics to form opinions when they lack either the team or the inclination to actually look into something. This goes for smart people just as much as dumb people. It’s easy to assume “hey this is what the troglodytes think, so I should think the opposite.” But that kind of reasoning isn’t always sound. It’s possible for both of you to be wrong.
by taco pal on Jan 30, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh boy, don’t get me started.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 31, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
Understand what you're saying
And I never meant to imply that FG, as such, had a “policy” against certain teams, which would be ridiculous. More like, I’m starting to think that, because of the Phillies’ seemingly anti-saber metric FO, the lazy thing to would be to assume the worst when decisions don’t automatically make sense….which I did not believe FG would do, but seems to be happening (at least amongst certain authors.)
I tweeted the other day that thinking Brown should start the year at Triple-A is not inconsistent with a still-bullish outlook for his future. The fact is that he needs some more time to consolidate his skills, particularly defense, and it’s best that he do that in Triple-A.
There IS a psychological component to the game that isn’t necessarily controlling in every instance, but in this case, a “less pressure” approach would seem to be better for his long-term development.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
great piece TP. Seriously. Your in mid season form and Pitchers and Catchers haven’t even reported yet.
I’ve been pretty vocal about Brown, and my own (minority) opinions, in regards to his development and this season, and while I still feel that if it were me, he’d be my starting LfF no questions asked, This piece has made me change my opinion slightly.
Here’s my thing. Regardless of what the organization did or didn’t do since his call up, regardless of the pressure, the fans, the psychological component as WC pointed to, whatever… the underlying point with Dom is this:
The next time he steps to the plate or on the field for the Phils, it HAS to be for good. no bouncing back and forth, no trial period, no injury call up. He comes up, and he plays every day. the job becomes his. Period.
If thats April of this year, sometime this summer, or 2014, so be it.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
The next time he steps to the plate or on the field for the Phils, it HAS to be for good. no bouncing back and forth, no trial period, no injury call up.
This.
And props, TP. Solid analysis all around.
Agreed on both counts. I’ve noted probably dozens of times how much I hate the way the Marlins develop players. I think they rush too many guys with that double jump from AA to the Majors, but Stanton, Morrison, etc. They stick with them and give them time to work out kinks and grow or shrink in the roles, they don’t engage in much ping pong with their prospects (except for Maybin, a bit).
Of some tangential relevance here, I happened to catch the last few minutes of Cataldi’s show today. They were doing a “guess the top ten worst athletes in Philadelphia sports” contest and people would get prizes for naming guys on their list. Since it was the end of the show and a number of them were still unguessed, anytime someone called in Cataldi would give them a bunch of hints so they’d get one of the remaining prizes.
After getting through all of the remaining names but one (Ronnie Brown, Andres Nocioni), Cataldi goes “The last one’s a Phillie. He’s a right fielder. Strikes out a lot.” Amusingly, the caller couldn’t guess it and kept hemming and hawing about how the name was escaping him, leading Cataldi to scream “HE’S A FIVE TOOL STIFF!” At which point the clueless caller gave up, leaving the prize for the next guy, which I think were tickets to Wing Bowl or something like that.
None of this is at all surprising of course, but whatever.
Shows what he knows, Brown’s a left fielder!
Dumbass…
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, one of the other hosts corrected him on that right after he said it.
I think he also said, as a clue, that Brown can’t get on the field, or words to that effect, but I may be misremembering that.
The funny thing, though, is that Pence fits that description pretty well.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
What’s particularly annoying is that Brown didn’t even strike out all that often last year.
It’s a little worrisome in that (1) Cataldi does move a fair number of opinions in this town, absurd as that may be, and (2) when Cataldi decides to make someone his whipping boy, he rarely relents, no matter what. If the player starts to prove him wrong by performing on the field, Cataldi typically will respond by doubling down and inventing reasons for why he was right all along and why the player’s good performance is actually somehow fraudulent. So we may be in for the long haul in defending Brown. There are exceptions though. He seems to have changed his tune on Cole Hamels.
Angelo Cataldi
It’s a little worrisome in that (1) Cataldi does move a fair number of opinions in this town, absurd as that may be, and (2) when Cataldi decides to make someone his whipping boy, he rarely relents, no matter what. If the player starts to prove him wrong by performing on the field, Cataldi typically will respond by doubling down and inventing reasons for why he was right all along and why the player’s good performance is actually somehow fraudulent.
Introducing exhibit A….
Editor at SB Nation's Philadelphia Union blog, The Brotherly Game. Follow me on Twitter.
So this is why my dad hates Donovan McNabb!
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Or, maybe YOUR DAD knew McNabbs dad was a bum.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Is that a genetic thing?
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
I rec’d this because it makes me so sad how many people hated and still hate Donnie.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
I’d really hoped he would tear it up after being traded (as much as I am required by law to hate the Redskins; this is what happens when you live/work in DC and are not a Redskins fan); that he had a rough time of it in Washington, and then in Minnesota, merely “proves” the idiots right, in their fevered minds
I was pretty bent about that. I still hold out hope he gets that Kurt Warner last shot in an odd city and has a ridiculously good year, then retires.
It would be nice to see him bounce back (and I had hoped for him to put together a few strong post-Eagle years too), but all reports seem to indicate that he has mentally checked out of football. Shanahan minced no words when essentially calling him fat, stupid, and lazy. And this year there were lots of stories in Minnesota about him being overweight, underprepared, late for practices, missing meetings, etc.
Really, the best thing for his legacy might be to retire with some dignity and make a living on TV rather than, say, stumbling around another disastrous season with a team like the Jags, or playing backup to Carson Palmer.
The broad point, for me, is that McNabb’s failures in DC and Minnesota should not detract from the fact that he was an elite player during his peak years in Philadelphia, won multiple playoff games, etc.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jan 31, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
totally agreed there. Just because a guy isn’t good now, it doesn’t mean he was never good.
by TMcAllister on Jan 31, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I really wished the same thing, I obviously didn’t want him to beat us but I wanted him to kill it in order to shut up every hater
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
So we may be in for the long haul in defending Brown.
I never can get used to the bizarre power that sports radio guys have in terms of Philly sports perception. Maybe it’s that way all over, but to imagine that one would have to constantly defend oneself as an athlete against the rants of, like, Cataldi or Mikey Miss is just painfully unfair.
Wait, seriously? How in hell is Brown one of the ten worst athletes in Philly? Shit, I’d argue he’s one of the ten or twenty best athletes.
Maybe they didn’t use the word “athlete.” I don’t remember. But if they did use it, they just meant “player,” not how good their athletic ability is.
A guy with a total of just 246 career MLB ABs in sparse playing time over 2 seasons is a stiff? That’s pretty ridiculous even by WIP standards.
That’s pretty ridiculous
Yes.
even by WIP standards.
Standards? They have standards?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jan 31, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty funny, I caught maybe one minute of it driving in to work and thought to myself, “I bet Dom Brown’s high on this list, and I bet I know exactly what the rant will be.” I then ranted out loud in my car as I drove into the garage. (I hope some co-workers saw me.) Good to know that the content of what I ranted was spot-on. I had even flirted with the idea of calling in with said rant, though Wing Bowl tickets are pretty much my idea of hell (I would have StubHub’d so fast).
I may just have to get cracking on a screenplay of a sports radio talk host who spends a weekend reading Bill James or suchlike and converts himself, with the ensuing calamity of fans and advertisers, co-hosts turning on him, getting stalked by his formerly best fan, etc. I imagine this reading montage sequence much like when Austin Powers got caught up on 30 years of history.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 30, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, and damn your hide, taco pal, I come to the Interwebz for polemic, and I get your reasoned synthesis. Well, eff this noiz.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 30, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
if some outfielder gets hurt, who,brown or pierre, gets called up?
I hear you got quarterback problems i feel bad for you son...
i got 99 problems but vince aint one
by XxActionJacksonxX on Jan 30, 2012 4:29 PM EST reply actions
That depends on a nearly incalculable number of factors. When? Is Pierre still on the roster? Is Howard already back playing (if he is, I’d be more inclined to call up a Pete Orr or Cesar Hernandez or similar infielder)? How long will the injury keep the starter out? Which outfielder?
Short guess: if it’s early in the season and the injury is a 2 weeker, Pierre gets the call and enjoys Gatorade from the MLB bench for a few weeks. If it’s middle to end of the season and it’s a short injury with Howard back playing, Pete Orr gets to make his annual appearance in the Majors. If it’s a long term injury early in the season, Brown gets the call and Pierre can pound sand.
If Mayberry is in LF, Pierre or Podsednik make the team out of camp, unless someone else really steps it up, mainly because Howard is out.
Once Howard is back it’ll be interesting.
If Brown for some reason ends up breaking camp as the starting LF, then Pierre probably gets released.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
If Mayberry is in LF, Pierre or Podsednik make the team out of camp
I agree with this part. But if Victorino goes down for a couple of weeks, I don’t see Pierre getting the starts. Nix and Mayberry will probably just both play every day, and they’ll call up Pete Orr.
What would suck is if Victorino was out with something a little more serious and had to be out for like 6 weeks. Then they’d be tempted to call up Brown temporarily and move the LF platoon to CF or put Pence in center and Brown in right or something.
I just realized I pretty much rephrased what Cormican said above, but I already typed it, so here it is.
by topherstarr on Jan 31, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I find your honesty refreshing.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Jan 31, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if they’re planning on cutting the bullpen to 6 after Howard comes back. If they keep 7, they’ll only have room for 1 backup outfielder. Can Wigginton play outfield?
2011
27 Games in RF/LF
30 games at 1B
66 games at 3B
2010
0 games in OF
90 1B
38 2B
22 3B
2009
38 1B
38 3B
1 OF
8 2B/SS
25 DH
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Name drop for the win!
In all seriousness, though, I thought this was a pretty thoughtful article. For what it’s worth, I agree with you that the Phillies organization should take every necessary measure to ensure that the players they develop (Brown or anyone else) reach their fullest potential. In that respect, I have no problem with Brown playing the year in AAA, or the next one for that matter, even if it means “coddling” him to some degree.
In any event, the only premise I meant to dispel was the premise that offering a chance for Brown to make the roster would affect him negatively. It just seemed to me to be a really obvious statement, i.e. if he should prove ready (whatever the ‘ready’ criteria is) we are going to play him. If Brown has any intentions of becoming a major league player that statement shouldn’t impede his development, but instead encourage it, so long as there are no undue expectations of whether he ought to be ready now. After reading your linked statement, I don’t get the sense there are. The default setting seemed to be AAA.
At some point he is going to have to play in the majors, otherwise worrying about all this at this stage is trivial. Whether you let him build higher expectations by performing well in AAA, or throw him to the wolves by playing him now, there is ultimately going to be pressure on him to perform well. In that sense, I do think every player has had their own trial by fire.
One interesting tangent to your last paragraph is whether players who graduate to the majors on bad teams do in some way have it easier. You could argue that expectations and demands are lower from fans, but also that they can be more easily replaced by a franchise that has time and losses to expend experimenting. You could also flip that argument on itself for prospects, who on good teams would not be expected to carry the team, but in which case might also be more easily replaced in that diminished role.
Fair enough.
Regarding your last paragraph, I think every individual is different. Some guys might need the low-pressure environment until they get their feet under them. Other guys might benefit from immediate exposure to a high-pressure environment. Still other guys might never be able to handle high pressure. It’s no different than the variety of personalities you encounter in any other workplace.
Dmitri Young worked out for the Phillies who said he showed Quick hands great foot work and his normal special bat speed…he’s lost 75 lbs
Dmitri Young
Dontrelle Willis
Jim Thome
Juan Pierre
Ty Wigginton
Scott Posednick
Dude, we’re having the best 2004 off season of anyone this year!
by Cormican on Jan 30, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Always like his other nickname in DC more that was used occasionally – ‘Pork Chop Express’ instead of ‘Da Meat Hook’
Taco Pal, what about if (in a perfect world) Brown started everyday for the Phillies instead of AAA?
Is there an AAA level of lack of accountability that would theoretically help his development more than being in the majors?
It's in his wheelhouse!!
Carlos Ruiz, My Nickname is Chooch.
Yeah, there could be. Here’s how I put it in my 2010 article on Brown:
the reason why you have the minor leagues is so that a prospect can work on weak areas of his game in an environment where the results don’t really matter that much. If a pitching prospect needs work on his breaking stuff, then in the minors he can throw as many breaking balls as he wants to, because it’s OK if he gets hit hard. In the majors – especially on a contending team like the Phillies – you can’t do that. So the prospect will either have his weaknesses exploited or he’ll stop working on them. Neither outcome is good for the team.
In Brown’s case, I don’t want him playing defense tentatively out of fear of making a mistake and getting on the blooper reel. I want him playing aggressively so he’ll improve. Once his defense is solid enough where that isn’t an issue anymore and he’s also not objectively hurting the team out there, then I’m fine with him starting in the big leagues permanently. If that happens this spring, then fine. If that process isn’t finished yet this spring and they send him to AAA, then that’s also fine.
The caveat to all of this is the concept of “out of sight, out of mind”. Part of the problem I had with sending him down last season was that there may actually have been more pressure on him the last two months in lehigh than there was when he was in Philly.
the four error game didn’t help, but if that was anyone else howuch would have been made of it? None. Unfortunately, I don’t think Dom is going to be out of the spotlight in lehigh. And you can bet that if he goes 3-4 with 2 HR one bight cataldi and co. Won’t say boo, but if he goes 0-14, or has another 3 or 4 error game on LF the buzzards will be all Over it.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
That’s a good point – in this internet age, you’re not immune from the spotlight even in the minors. I do think there’s still a difference in degree though. I mean, a FOUR error game will get in the news even if you’re playing in Yakima. But an error here and an error there might go unnoticed in Lehigh Valley, whereas it wouldn’t in Philadelphia.
yeah, from a pressure perspective, there’s definitely less at lehigh no questions asked, in terms of the microscope. However, from an accountability standpoint, I don’t see much of a difference, when it comes to Dom, because the only thing he’s going to be held accountable for by the media is his mistakes, they’ll focus on it, because it makes good radio.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
On the bright side, one good thing about the radio types is that defense tends to be an afterthought to them. They may have already forgotten that Brown’s problems in ‘11 were defensive and now have the vague impression that he couldn’t hit. Note Cataldi’s description of him: “strikes out a lot.” I’m not too worried that Brown will hit this year, whether in AAA or MLB, so that will help.
One can only hope.
It’ll be interesting to see how he adjusts offensively at Lehigh if he gets pitched around like crazy. It’s the polar opposite of what would happen in philly. basically getting nothing to hit, vs pitchers coming at him.
Thats the one thing that worries me about him being there all year. if theres a chance that he’ll actually regress offensively out of frustration.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
That may depend upon how much effort he appears to be exerting on D. If he doesn’t dive, run into walls, etc. He may still get lambasted in some parts.
Good plate discipline.
he doesn’t dive, run into walls, etc.
lambasted in some parts
I’ve seen this episode
Our loss. A search of Bobby Abreu and Hall of Fame shows he has his advocates. Extreme long shot, but still a nice career to aspire to.
-------
Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
A Brown/Abreu comparison is a pretty comforting one. There’s a long way between “bust” and Bobby Abreu’s career, of course, but productive hitter with adequate defense is a pretty good career plan for Brown.
Incidentally, was Abreu always considered “not a winner” or whatever when he was here, or did people just say they always felt that way about him after he was traded?
I have hopes that with a Hero’s Quest narrative and a sustained period of success, Brown will be able to dig his way out of the hole these dopes have created for him, a la Hamels. Of course, Hamels had the preexisting goodwill of having been a NLCS and WS MVP. It’s pretty remarkable, looking back, that Hamels ever found his way into the doghouse to begin with.
I think a large portion of that comes from his voice… if he had a deep and manly voice, was a “philly guy”, and wasn’t from california; I wonder if people would have been able to disown him so easily in 2009. I guess one thing that is weird is that Utley never really gets crap for being from Cali… maybe it’s because he is a ballplayig super-robot though…
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I mean part of it might just be somewhat random about who is blamed initially and who isn’t and then it just becomes a terrible ratchet mechanism.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 31, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
http://zozone.mlblogs.com/2012/01/30/latest-contract-info/
Posted this in the minor league pitchers fanpost but for those of you who only look at front page, some interesting contract info, especially for Pinero. No opt out if he’s not on the roster, and 1.5mm base if he makes the ML roster.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Cool article TP. The only negative is that you didn’t mention that Dominic Brown needs to work on his attitude and hustle in AAA. He clearly doesn’t work hard enough or hustle enough on the field… I remember one instance when he didn’t run to firstbase and I only watch a few games per season so I assume that he does this all the time. There is no possible negative to not running as fast as you can to first base… can you think of a single player in recent Phillies history who was hurt running to first?
Plus, they talked about his lack of hustle on WIP… Jimmy Rollins 2, I wonder if he’ll start poping the ball up more too.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WMHHanJqNM&feature=related&t=2m50s
Just watch the first three seconds.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Are you suggesting I punch myself in the temple… or that you love me?
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Whichever option is funnier.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
What’s so weird is now reading my initial comment, I could actually see is that comment not in sarcasm.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Very few Phighters can write in the typical grammatical and syntactical manner of the typical WIP listener. It’s really difficult to de-educate to yourself to that point. As such, the sarcasm occasionally gets lost. I knew you were being sarcastic though, simply because you’ve been around a while.
One person that’s really good at WIP-speak and philly.comment style is Phrozen. It’s like he took a course in it or something…
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I try to find a balance so that someone could read it and think maybe it isn’t sarcasm because that’s much funnier. I’ve seen Phrozen do some awesome WIP speak. I think I can do it, I’d just have to drink a lot more.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Phrozen’s like the female officer who joins the Major Crimes Unit in season 3 of The Wire – the one who’s there because of how good she is at deciphering all the drug dealers’ recorded conversations
by taco pal on Jan 30, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love the Wire… Caroline was ok, but the gag got old quick… I liked it better when Prez was trying to decipher the talk in season 1.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 30, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
The most important thing is to take all the spelling, grammar, punctuation and capitalization rules, and throw them out like jimmy oh wait hits popups lol!!!1
It’s incredibly difficult to undo all that training I put myself through once I graduated high school to ensure I didn’t sound like a nitwit when e-mailing my professors.
Some people don't think it be what it is, but it do.
by TheOrangeCone on Jan 30, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Most of my students don’t seem to mind sounding like nitwits… but I’m just a TA… maybe that’s why.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 31, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Wait…
There are spelling, grammar, punctuation and capitalization rules?
How come nobody told me?
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I didn’t even see this earlier. Awesome, TP.
Makes me wonder if I smell a new post coming up… TGP bloggers as characters… Have to think about this.
Would TP be Lester Freamon or Jimmy McNulty maybe?
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 31, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
So is WC the formerly corrupt narcotics LT who straightens out and makes rank, but still sticks up for his guys?
I didn’t know you were stictly a suit and tie motherfucker. My B.
by Cole_Hamels_Can on Jan 31, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
In nomine Cholly, et Jimmy, et De Spiritus Fratus, amen.
Bob.
by The Dark on Feb 1, 2012 12:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
In a perfect Phillies world. Mayberry is clearly the better player through spring training (through no fault of Brown’s) and, can be the outfielder he was last year. Brown spends the year in AAA vastly improves on all aspects of his game & is a roster call up in September where he has a strong showing.
"Learning to eat soup with a knife"
Is there a way to break out his AAA stats from the beginning of the season and the end of the season on baseball-reference or elsewhere?
I remember when he was sent back to AAA last year, every report of him struggling was about his low batting average (or his fielding). One of the first games after he went back down he hit a monster homerun, and a friend of mine from Allentown who goes to a lot of Iron Pigs games said the other teams pitched around Dom after that homerun, so he just took his walks.
I’m trying to figure out if the stats back that up, and it at least seems plausible. His OBP for all of 2011 in AAA was .391. (Interestingly, his OBP for 2010 was .390 and AA was .391.)
2011 AAA .261/.391/.370 8BB 23SO
2010 AAA .346/.390/.561 28BB 30SO
You can get a rough approximation by looking at the monthly splits here (splits will be erased when the season starts)
This is probably basically what I’m looking for:
Pre all-star: 11G 41AB .341/.431/.537 7BB 9SO
Post all-star: 30G 97AB .227/.374/.299 21BB 24SO
The sample sizes are too small to really draw any conclusions, but if anything is encouraging it is the BB rate.
Also, he was hit by 3 pitches after he went back to Lehigh. Extrapolate that over 162 games, and he would have been 3rd in MLB.
And that’s how he becomes as beloved as Chase Utley.
I heart our rookies.
by LeepinLizardz on Feb 1, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Can't jerk off the ball here.
If there’s anything the abdominator photo-op told me is that this kid has an abundance of ego to withstand the booing as I assume many athletes of his level do. But, I don’t think most people, and esp. young people, deal very well with too much uncertainity, in particular, when it involves sense of purpose or direction which excessive shufflling of Brown back and forth from the minors to the Bigs would probably cause. He’s not a replacement player who, in serving as a team’s band-aid expect a more mecurial baseball life. Moreover, Brown knows he’s been preened to start, if he didn’t I’d be a bit concerned. So whatever minimizes situations capable of fostering this type of insecurity that goes beyond more superficial aspects like image and attacks core self worth issues might be the proper avenue to follow.
Dom Brown
The only thing I can see with Brown is the fact of his bodily uncoordination. He seems lacking control of his gangly 6.5" frame. Mayberry is 6.6" while Werth was also tall at 6.5," however these two are coordinated and controlled their body mechanics much better. I do not believe coordination can be taught. To me, it is genetic or a birthing situation. In other words, you either have it or you don’ t. In the past two years, I have still see the lanky uncoordinated Dom Brown in the outfield making real blunders. He doesn’t even know how to hold his glove looking at it sometimes wonder what it is? He seems clueless at times lacking confidence. I don’t know how you overcome it and he is really trade bait. I agree that Laynce Nix is no better, but he always seemed to perform well against the Phillies for some strange reason? Yet playing against them is not obviously playing with them, right? I don’t know what Amaro sees in NIx? I think the Phils have a real mess in left field until Howard comes back and the really excellent fielder Mayberry appears in left. John is a great outfielder; smooth as glass, rocket arm, and the confidence of an Amos Otis years ago. Put Wigginton at first until Ryan shows and play Mayberry in left. Unless Brown really hits well in Spring Training and then we have another Burrell in left field. I think they should have stuck with Ibanez for a few more years (he’s in good shape for 40); solid in the field and a great clutch hitter. Those 20 dingers will be sorely missed. Who will make up for them? Maybe Pence can hit 40 homers and do it (I am going out on a limb believing that Pence can be another Bautista). Hunter has a lot of power, he hasn’t even realized yet. The rest of the team I am not sure except Mayberry who hopefully will stay on fire and not change his stance that led to his success. The problem is when players started messing with their batting mechanics. Look what happened to Dunn. I think the Marlins (especially if they get Cespedes and he is a real major league hitter – a lot of detractors on this one and I don’t think Amaro wants to chance it, but I would because if Yoenis pans out look out for he really could be a star? We’ll see. The Nationals will come in second and the Phillies third. I know that is an unpopular prediction, but I think the Phils are too long in the tooth. Very injury prone, I just don’t think they will hold up. Even Halladay and Lee were being hit last year showing flaws. However, to sustain near perfection year end and year out is very difficult in baseball with all the parity these days. True Lee was unhittable every other month, but in the off months look out! Halladay was getting beat-up in the first inning constantly and going after the hitters with them swinging at first pitches on his fastball; he adjusted for awhile. The NL is getting used to Halladay and he needs to make adjustments. He is great do not get me wrong, but no room exists for complacency in baseball. You need to stay in shape and be at the top of your game constantly (Halladay has a great work ethic and may pull him out if he can lose his arrogance maintaining his adjustment in the first inning throwing some breaking stuff instead). But the players lack real discipling at times, however who can blame them through the yearly 162 game grind. You never know of course about the Phils, as some predict they may have two good years left with this team. Baseball is so very hard to predict especially the last two years with the Cards and Giants being really lucky bums (both these teams are through). And Oswalt still has pitching in him, but lets hope the Nats don’t get him and then the haunting occurs.
by Grantham Taylor, Hughes on Feb 9, 2012 2:44 AM EST reply actions
what
http://www.thegoodphight.com
by WholeCamels on Feb 9, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was channeling his inner Faulkner. But unlike Faulkner, I couldn’t read this.
by David S. Cohen on Feb 9, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’m tempted to shake my head and walk away, but instead I’ll try to make some observations:
Formatting:
- the heading says Dom Brown, but only about 1/5 of the comment is about him
- that is one dauntingly large chunk of text to try to tackle; consider breaking up large comments by using a separate paragraph for each major topic.
Content:
- I’m going to ignore the “bodily uncoordination” stuff, other than to say I think you’re waaay off
- What they see in Nix is that he can play all outfield positions, fields fairly well, and can hit righties ok (.747 career OPS), which makes him a good 4th outfielder
- I really like and admire Raul (see article here), but after a .707 OPS last year, the Phillies had to move on; I hope he latches on somewhere
- Hunter Pence will almost certainly be worse in 2012 than he was in 2011. His stats indicate that he hit better last year (higher line drive rate), but was also quite lucky. He is also moving to a tougher home run park, at least for right-handed hitters. I wouldn’t expect more than ~25 home runs.
- You didn’t finish your thought on the Marlins, but it sounds like you think they’ll win the division
- You predict the Phillies finish 3rd. I guess you’re saying they will be suffer many more injuries in 2012 than they did in 2011, when Utley, Rollins, Howard, Polanco, and Victorino all missed time.
- “Even Halladay and lee were being hit last year showing flaws.” and “the NL is getting used to Halladay” — you don’t seem to realize that 1) Halladay was arguably the best pitcher in the NL last year, and 2) Lee was among the top 3 by almost any measure. Not sure what more one could reasonably expect.
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Celebrating over 50 years of slightly more Phils wins than losses: 1961-2011
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