2012 Phillies Player Preview: Hunter Pence
Remember when Raul Ibanez began his Phillies career in the spring of 2009 and kicked off the season with several weeks of red-hot hitting? Everytime I heard someone bring up Raul on talk radio, the line was always the same: "It's so nice to have a leftfielder who's consistent. Not like that streaky Pat Burrell."
The point of this is not to criticize Ibanez for being streaky. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with streakiness as such. The point is that baseball fans tend to jump to unwise conclusions based on their first impressions. Fans who have seen a guy play for a couple of months rarely recognize that what they've observed, by itself, doesn't constitute enough data to evaluate that player. If you're going to rely solely on what your eyes tell you, then you need to watch the guy for a good while longer. An even better methodology would be to give due consideration to the guy's career statistics.
Not long before the Phillies traded for Hunter Pence last July, I wrote a post here that was provocatively titled Hunter Pence (Probably) Isn't That Good at Baseball. As I explained in the post, I wasn't saying that Pence wasn't good at all. What I was saying was that although Pence's batting average in 2011 was .318 at that time, he wasn't a truly elite player and was thus being overrated by many Phillies fans. His high BA was being fueled by an unusually high BABIP. He didn't have elite power (career ISO of .190), and was actually a bit below-average at walking (career BB% around 7.0).
Of course, Ruben Amaro decided not to listen to me and pulled the trigger on the Pence trade. And after the trade, Pence actually improved on his pre-trade 2011 numbers. His BABIP declined - but only slightly, to .348. His ISO shot up to .237 (with a 22.0% HR/FB). And his walk rate was an impressive 11.0%. All in all, he accumulated a .324/.394/.560 slash line, a 158 wRC+, and 2.6 WAR in 54 G, 236 PA (that's a 7.2 WAR pace over 150 G).
If Pence can maintain that level of offensive production for the next two years, the Phillies will have an elite RF, not just a good one. But therein lies the question: can he? On one hand, he's still pretty young (DOB 4/13/83) - maybe the explanation for his 2011 season is just that he suddenly hit his prime at age 28. It's not impossible.
Color me a skeptic though. For one thing, 236 PA aren't a whole heckuva lot. For another, he's had a high-walk-rate stretch in the past - over his first 236 PA for the Astros in 2009, he walked at a 12.2% clip. It didn't last. He slipped back to 7.1% for the rest of the season, 6.2% in 2010, and 6.9% in 2011 prior to the trade.
Still, no matter what happens, the good news is that RF won't be a position the Phillies will have to worry about in 2012. Whether Pence posts 3.2 WAR (like he did in 2010), 5.2 WAR, or 7.2 WAR, he will not hold the team back from returning to the postseason. The only reason why Pence's precise performance level will be important will be in informing our retrospective assessment of the trade that brought him here. Which is a topic we can hash out some other time.
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For me, I was really glad to see the front office doll out a one year deal. My biggest fear was that they were going to try and lock up a free agent year and sign him to a 3-4 year deal worth 12-14mm annually. It gives me hope that they too are waiting to see what he does this season before worrying about next season and beyond.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Picture Caption
“Hunter Pence does his best Eli Manning face impersonation”
http://whosay.jimmyrollins.com/photos/134618
hijinks for Shane. Lol.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
by Joecatz on Feb 21, 2012 1:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I can only think it was a big inside joke. That or the clubhouse crew and/or entire team are illiterate.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
That was the name of Victorino’s character in his guest appearance on Hawaii Five-0.
by FooFighter1124 on Feb 22, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Haha right. His guess spot was like a minute long, and he only had two or three lines. I’m guessing it took at least 35 takes.
by FooFighter1124 on Feb 22, 2012 4:09 AM EST up reply actions
I’m actually pretty bullish on Pence going forward. This is one of those ephemeral things, but he seems like the type of guy who thrives in a “positive” environment, and the Houston baseball scene was so moribund (and getting moribunderer) that it could have been affecting the guy.
Of course, a happy positive outlook won’t keep your BABIP over .330, either. In any event, he’s highly likely to earn his money over the next few years, and as a position player under 30, he’s that rare species in Philadelphia these days.
http://www.thegoodphight.com
My retrospective assessment of the trade will be based on both his performance and whether people feel the need to keep saying “Let’s go eat!”
He’s Gary Matthews Jr. by opening day
"I remember being three and I wanted to be a baseball player, that's all I ever really wanted to be. That and Spider Man." -Raul Ibanez
Ruben Amaro Jr. Delenda Est
by Jose and the Contrarians on Feb 21, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A fair analysis of Pence. Do keep in mind though that BABIP is the trendy stat at the moment, but it’s not a good indicator of much except long term regression-to-mean probability. A .330 BABIP is less than 1.5 standard deviations above average and thus within the capabilities of a good hitter in his prime. Pence is a good player. He might not turn out to be worth what we gave up for him, but that’s a long way off.
Do keep in mind though that BABIP is the trendy stat at the moment, but it’s not a good indicator of much except long term regression-to-mean probability
That’s all it’s used as in this article. And I’m not really sure why you’re calling it a “trendy stat”.
by philsandthrills on Feb 22, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Sure, but it’s not like that matters here. BABIP is not exactly a new feature at TGP.
by philsandthrills on Feb 22, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Simply means that over the past 3 years or so, BABIP has drawn a lot of attention and is routinely cited in baseball articles, without (IMO) many of its adherents fully understanding it, or regression analysis in general for that matter.
The fact that BABIP has a relativey low s.d. among baseball statistics (particularly among pitchers) is very useful, but there’s a tendency (again, IMO) for people to attribute magical properties to it, or to conclude that only luck accounts for all BABIP variance from the mean of ~.298. I am not saying that tacopal was doing that in his article, only cautioning the reader not to automatically assume that Pence, with a BABIP just 1.5 s.d.‘s above normal, is somehow “due” for a regression in 2012. That’s all.
by njns on Feb 22, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Uh, his BABIP last year was .361, not .330, and it was .348 with the Phillies. Not sure where you are getting the .330 figure from.
by philsandthrills on Feb 23, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
I detested, just flat-out loathed, Pence when he was an Astro, and was upset that we traded three really good prospects for him. Then he started hitting and I found the combination of his athleticism and near-total lack of physical grace hilarious, and I came to enjoy him.
What really struck me about his performance after the trade was the walk rate. I figured maybe hanging out with Cholly prompted him toward greater selectivity; that he had a stretch of even better plate awareness at the outset of his career is kind of sobering, though it probably shouldn’t be surprising.
At any rate, as he and Victorino are pretty much the only guys who don’t seem particularly likely to miss a large chunk of time to injury, suffer a fairly severe age-related decline, or both, here’s hoping he keeps his patience.
Yup. If you look at his two best rate stat years (2007, 2011) both are extremely BABIP fueled, but his walk% in 2007 was a career worst 5.4%.
Last year, he basically increased in LD% from the previous 3 years, ANDF increased his walk% But more importantly, after the trade his k% decreased DRAMATICALLY. I’m sure a lot fo that had to do with playing for a better team, in a better lineup and hitting behind Howard. but if he continues to do that… yikes.
I will say that I was one of Pence’s biggest opponents, and I was very skeptical of the BABIP fuled statistics. That said, if you look at Bill james projections for him:
.292 .349 .486 .329 BABIP 25 HR 91 RBI 8% BB rate 18%K Rate, I think he got that [pretty square on the nose.
The Key for Pence is line drives, patience, and sustaining a >325 baseline for BABIP. If he does that, he’ll be a 4-5 war guy every year.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
I don’t know about “every year.” Over his career, his BABIP has been .328 – his WAR per 155 games has been over 4, but just barely (4.08). Of course, that’s a mishmash of two different home ballparks and many different annual offensive environments. But regardless, I think that to be a consistent >4 WAR guy, he needs to have a .325 BABIP and at least a somewhat improved walk rate.
Yeah, I mentioned the walk rate above but didn’t in the lower part, I’d agree with that.
But I disagree with the .328 career average for BABIP. He basically had two years (2007, 2011) where his BABIP was over .350, and 3 years (8,9,10) where it was right around .300. If you dig deeper into his year to year lines, etc.. you can pretty much see why.
What I was positing (and I may be wrong about this) is that the things he did second half last year, lead me to believe that if he CONTINUES to do those things, even in an unlyucky environment, his baseline BABIP should be closer to .325 than .300.
Does that make sense?
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
Cholly and walks
I don’t know if hanging with Cholly teaches guys to walk, but I know that he sure as shit doesn’t teach them to run.
Why look'st thou so?' -"With my crossbow
I shot the Albatross."
by RememberthePhitans on Feb 22, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
An injury free Pence should be fine in RF. I am more concerned with the LF situation, and what they can get out of Mayberry/Nix/Brown/Wiggy, especially with Howard out for the first part of the season.
If Pence just performs to his career norms I’ll be happy. assessment of whether the trade was worth it won’t just depend on Pence, but will also depend on what Houston eventually gets fom the prospects the got in the trade.
Concern in left field
Is it realistic to expect a 2.0 WAR increase in left field this year no matter what combination plays?
I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.
February 22nd 2012. 1:04 P.M. please mark the date and time, because I am going on record and saying I agree with Nikk 120%.
"Sometimes, the balls that fall in are jam shots"...Hunter Pence, on BABIP
by Joecatz on Feb 22, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Internet love fest
1. The fielding can’t be worse
2. The OBP can’t be worse.
3. With Brown/Mayberry/Wiggington/Nix, even poor play and injuries can’t derail some combination from working.
4. I don’t know what this means, but I googled for a photo of “internet love fest” (safesearch) and this came up second (WTF?):

Why look'st thou so?' -"With my crossbow
I shot the Albatross."
by RememberthePhitans on Feb 22, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions

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