Howe, Lopes, Williams added to coaching staff

by WholeCamels on Oct 16, 2006 4:53 PM EDT in News Comment 17 comments

In a bold move designed to raise the Phillies' median coaching staff age above the "Where's my senior citizen's discount?!" level, the Phillies have added former managers Art Howe, Davey Lopes, and Jimy Williams to the team's coaching staff for the 2007 season.

Ohhhhh, magical. So we get a guy in Art Howe whose last job was managing two disastrously bad Mets teams and was previously canned for failing to take two exceptional A's teams past the ALDS, Jimy Williams, who was fired in the middle of a Boston pennant race in 2001 due to team mutiny (to be replaced by cuddly Joe Kerrigan!), and Davey Lopes, who is, well, probably a very nice man.

Once again the organization places a premium on worn-out ideas and veteranocity and rejects any kind of progressive thought. This whole thing has to make Charlie Manuel very comfortable, knowing that these three Brutuses will be sharing the dugout with him.

And it figures that the one time there were two former Phillies with merit who may have deserved a shot (John Russell and Juan Samuel), they go outside the organization.

Alright, I've cooled off a bit.

It seems Williams is going to manage spring training (whatever that means). Could the players get out of the gate faster in 2007 than they have the past several seasons? Hey, who knows? And Howe by default will be an upgrade over Windmill Bill Dancy. And maybe Lopes can teach Victorino how to steal bases. I'm still pretty lukewarm on these moves.

Poll

zOMg HOTTEST NEW COACH!!!!111!!1ONE!!

Davey Lopes

18 votes

Art Howe

1 votes

Jimy Williams

2 votes

21 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 17 comments

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Comments

Good move by the Phils

These guys are used to getting fired, so, it shouldn't be hard to let them all go at the end of the season.

by jonk on Oct 16, 2006 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Is there or has there ever been any more ridiculous group of baseball re-treads on one team at the same time? Wow. Really.

by David S. Cohen on Oct 16, 2006 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this is a bad joke, right?

It's like they thought, "Who out there can we get that will just reconfirm all the stereotypes about how dumb we are as an organization?" And then chose accordingly.

Why was I born where I was born?

by dajafi on Oct 16, 2006 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

upon further review

I'm not as down on this as I was last night. Lopes is indeed there to teach Victorino et al how to steal bases (though it's annoying to see Marcus Hayes, who should know better, refer to Rollins as an under-achieving base thief; Jimmy's both prodigious and efficient in his larceny, and he doesn't need help). Howe is going to run infield practice; Williams will basically serve as spring training chief of staff and try to teach the pitchers how to bunt.

If nothing else, the Phils did identify real problems and make reasonable choices in terms of how to address them. Were it not for the team's terrible track record--admittedly, a criterion that might be irrational considering that all these guys, and Gillick in a relative sense, are newcomers--I think I'd be totally fine with these hires.

by dajafi on Oct 17, 2006 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hayes

I couldn't believe that when I read it. Rollins is one of the very best basestealers in the game. Do they expect him to swipe 100+ a la Rickey Henderson and Vince Coleman? It's a different game these days.

by WholeCamels on Oct 17, 2006 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

does this really matter?

Does anyone really care who a team's assistant coaches are? Seriously, I'm always ready to criticize the Phillies' decisions whenever appropriate, but I really don't see how assistant coach staffing decisions are worth getting upset about - at most, the only ones who matter are the batting and pitching coaches. Also, Art Howe was a pretty good manager with the A's. Those of us who claim to believe in sound statistical analysis and the meaninglessness of small sample sizes shouldn't be pulling out bogus arguments like "he failed to advance twice in the ALDS."

by taco pal on Oct 16, 2006 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Art Howe was not that great...

Send out Zito, Mulder, Hudson... rinse... repeat. He was fired from Oakland for a reason and he crashed and burned with the Mets for a reason...

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Oct 16, 2006 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The A's didn't fire Howe

He quit so he could take the Mets job. The A's didn't seek compensation because Beane and Howe didn't get along with each other, but Howe won 103 games the year before he left and there's no evidence that his contract would have been terminated if other teams hadn't actively tried to pry him away.

Try to get your facts straight before you post.

by taco pal on Oct 17, 2006 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh come on...

--------------
It is an unusual move, because teams seldom allow managers under contract to pursue other jobs, although this week Seattle allowed Lou Piniella out of the remaining year of his deal to talk to clubs closer to his home in Tampa, Fla. Unlike the Mariners, the A's are not believed to be seeking compensation for Howe.
--------------

This reads to me that the cash poor As were BEGGING for the Mets to take Howe so they didn't have to pay him the next year. Yeah, not a firing, but as close to one as you can get,

by jonk on Oct 18, 2006 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he was fired for performance

If he was fired for performance, why did the Mets want to hire him so badly? The article plainly states the reason the A's let Howe go - because of the personal animosity between him and Beane. The article says what it says, and if it "reads" to you differently, then I'd submit that it's because you're starting out with a preexisting bias to get to a predetermined conclusion.

By the way, Howe's replacement, Macha, was Howe's bench coach and confidant. Typically, if you "fire" a manager because you're unhappy with his performance, you don't replace him with his #1 deputy. Your reading just doesn't wash.

by taco pal on Oct 18, 2006 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I consider myself an A's fan...

let me say that Howe was canned. At the time, it was viewed as a firing. As to why Beane would hire Macha, keep in mind that with Macha fired now, the replacement will likely come from within the organization. That's just the M.O. out there.

As to why the Mets hired him? Because they're a poorly run organization? Either way, Art Howe (bleeping) sucked and I was ecstatic when he was fired.

by DanT on Oct 20, 2006 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree completely

Quick who are the bench coaches for Tigers? The Cards? I don't know and I doubt even most of the readers of this board know so how important can it be?

Everyone take a deep breath and step back...let's not start getting carried away here with looking for meanings where there is very little meaning to be found. Next we'll start wondering if Scott Graham really is the best post game host for the Phils radio show and if not, how many more wins can we get out of a new radio show host.

xats.

by xatsman on Oct 21, 2006 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds to me like

They just added four candidates for interim manager by around the all star break...

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Oct 16, 2006 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Friends of Charlie?

Maybe Charlie figures he might as well get some buddies around him in his last year as Manager. If by some miracle, (or their great coaching) the team makes a playoff appearance in '07 the four of them get a pat on the fanny, and then Gillick either re-ups them for another year or shows them the door.

by jerseygrown on Oct 16, 2006 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Zzzzzz

and when does Darren Daulton appear to save us all from the impending invasion of creatures from Planet Thatsthewayitsalwaysbeendonegoddammit!! ?

by das411 on Oct 17, 2006 1:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Crazy Jimy

Jimy Williams as bench coach has the potential to be a year-long source of amusement. Since he's prone to crazy hunches (see archives of Simmons, Bill), we'll at least have things to talk about.

But I echo Taco Pal in thinking that these moves probably won't make much difference in the long run. If Lopes can work with Victorino, and if they come out of spring training more ready, more power to them. Otherwise, they're most likely gone at the end of the year anyway.

by Alex Falzone on Oct 17, 2006 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yawn....<scratching my hairy pits>.......

So how many starts will these guys make on the mound or at third base for the Phightins? Yeah, just like I thought...we still have problems...wake me when we get some players....

by xatsman on Oct 21, 2006 9:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs