Gavin Floyd: Mediocre Prospect
I don't trust Gavin Floyd. I don't trust his stuff, with the loss of velocity on his fastball over the course of last year. I don't trust his control. I don't trust that he can miss bats.
Here's the thing: I didn't trust him before 2005. There's nothing in his minor-league record that suggests to me Floyd's going to be an especially good major leaguer. He's never posted an impressive strikeout rate, he's never shown particularly good control (based on walk rate), and he's been pretty inconsistent in hit rate and home run rate.
Let's take a look at his pre-2005 pro career, shall we? (All stats courtesy of thebaseballcube.com.)
Year Team Age Level G IP ERA h9 hr9 w9 k9 whip
2002 Lkwd 19 A 27 166 2.77 6.45 0.70 3.47 7.59 1.10
2003 CLW 20 A 24 138 3.00 8.35 0.59 2.93 7.50 1.25
2004 Rdng 21 AA 20 119 2.57 7.03 0.38 3.48 7.11 1.17
2004 SWB 21 AAA 5 30 4.99 11.45 1.17 2.64 5.28 1.57
2004 PHI 21 MLB 6 28 3.49 7.94 0.32 5.08 7.62 1.45
In his first two years and his stop at Reading in his third, he posted very good ERAs, but the other numbers are much less inspiring. Particularly look at the trend in the K/9 numbers: decreasing at each stop.
And then last year happened.
Year Team Age Level G IP ERA h9 hr9 w9 k9 whip
2005 SWB 22 AAA 24 137 6.16 10.16 0.72 4.33 6.36 1.61
2005 PHI 22 MLB 7 26 10.04 10.38 1.73 5.54 5.88 1.77
Not exactly trust-inspiring, was it? His winter performance (3.89 ERA in 34.2 innings) was much improved from last year, but not especially impressive. And while he's been good this spring (2.30 ERA, 14 K vs. 7 BB in 15.2 IP), we're talking about two real starts worth of innings.
Some have talked Floyd up as if he's a viable candidate for a slot in the Phillies' starting rotation, perhaps bumping one of the Ryans to the bullpen. I don't see it. He needs to show he can get AAA hitters out consistently before I'd be willing to turn him loose again in the majors. I have high hopes for this season; I'm not willing to let a guy with a real shaky history hurt the Phillies while he works out his problems.
Some have also speculated that the reason for his collapse last year was the way he was handled. Allegedly, Charlie Manuel stated after Floyd's excellent start against St. Louis that Gavin would be moved to the bullpen when Vicente Padilla was healthy. Also, the quick demotion to the bullpen, and shortly thereafter to AAA have been cited as psychological blows to Floyd. As it turns out, he was moved to the bullpen after a disastrous start on 4/15 against the Braves. He followed that up with an atrocious relief appearance on 4/19 (in relief of Padilla, who also was shelled that day). He made one more relief appearance after that, getting bombed once again, and then was sent down. I have a problem with the idea that a prospect should be psychologically damaged by the notion that he might be bumped by a pitcher with a track record of major league success. I have even more trouble with the notion that being demoted to AAA after totally losing it in the majors should be considered hurtful. If Floyd can't handle the fact that he hasn't earned a spot in the rotation, then I seriously question whether he has the stuff between the ears to ever stick in the majors.
Now, lest I be called a typically pessimistic Negadelphian, let me point out one comparison I read somewhere (I think it was on John Sickels blog minorleagueball.com) that intrigues me: Ben Sheets. Sheets, like Floyd, sports a low-to-mid 90's fastball and a big curve. Sheets, like Floyd, had spotty numbers in the minors and didn't particularly impress in his few years in the majors (although he never imploded the way Floyd did last year). Then, in 2004, he exploded, posting a stellar 2.70 ERA and huge improvements in almost every peripheral stat category (in fact, he was arguably better than the NL Cy Young award winner [Roger Clemens] that year). And one point in Floyd's favor: He is just 23 this year, the same age Sheets was in his first year in the majors, and three years younger than Sheets was in his breakout season.
I don't mean to say that I think Floyd will turn into Sheets in a few years, only that a guy with his raw stuff clearly has potential. But he has a long way to go before (if ever) he reaches it.
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8 comments
Comments
Agreed
by WholeCamels on Mar 22, 2006 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Slightly Disagree
I think the most important column in that table of Floyd stats is the 3rd one, age. At 19/20/21, he was pretty damn studly. 7.5 K/9 isn't Pedro, but it's still impressive for a 19/20 year-old. Brett Myers pitched in the same leagues at the same ages, and at ages 20 and 21 had 7.17 and 7.52 K/9 (Floyd was 7.50 and 7.11). As for the K-rate decreases, the first 2 are just noise - 2002 to 2003 is a 1 K difference in his 138 innings, and 2003 to Reading 2004 is 6 K in 119 innings.
Obviously, something was wrong last year - at age 22, he couldn't get anyone out at AAA or MLB, whereas he'd been very successful at every stop/age before that, and even had crafted 28 solid MLB innings at age 21. I haven't a clue as to whether it was a physical issue, a mental one, or even an emotional one; I just hope that it was/is/will be addressed properly.
I'll post in the Myers thread in a bit, but suffice it to say, if Floyd proves to be on the Myers path, I'll be more than lukewarm.
by Shore on Mar 22, 2006 10:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Weird
Needless to say, if Gavin can turn it around and progress like Myers, I'd be plenty pleased.
My only concern (and I don't know how much this should worry me), is that Floyd lacks the "bulldog" personality frequently attributed to Myers. That pugnaciousness might have helped Myers work through his early inconsistency to post a very good year in 2005. Does Floyd have the same kind of mental toughness? The occasional reports of his problems last year being mental (at least in part) leave me wondering.
by phatj on Mar 22, 2006 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the gavinator
My biggest concern, which others have also noted, is that his fastball velocity is reportedly down from what it was in high school. He needs good heat to set up the curve; of course, the radar gun isn't as important as how much movement he has, but that's evidently less than spectacular too.
His mental state is probably concern #2 for me. Floyd's occasional statements of "Now I've got this thing licked" are getting old. Less talk, more rock; it sounds like he's just trying to convince himself.
Floyd should start 2006 as Scranton's rotation ace. Let him prove that he can get guys out at AAA--which he hasn't done with any consistency in either of his stops there. With a good month or two, he'll have the chance to do it in the majors. At 23, he has plenty of time.
by dajafi on Mar 22, 2006 10:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
delivery
his mental state may not be brett myers, but maybe he's a little cool-headed too. you saw what happened when myers was thinking too much under kerrigan vs. how he improved once lieber and dubee got him to work fast, set up his pitches better and just flow his delivery. his Ks jumped and his ERA improved by 2 full points. that's exactly what floyd needs to do. you don't lose velocity at age 22 for any reason other then poor mechanics. i mean, you've all seen him pitch, right? his wind up is TERRIBLE at times.
if his release point is back to where it should be and he thinks less about his windup, i think floyd will be back in line with his 03/04 numbers this year. or close anyway.
by gr on Mar 23, 2006 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hope I was wrong
by phatj on Mar 29, 2006 11:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
franklin
by gr on Mar 30, 2006 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re
by pacino on Mar 31, 2006 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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