My 2007 Most Despicable Team
by WholeCamels on Nov 23, 2007 11:02 AM EST
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PrintWith a tip of the hat to our man Blez over at a Athletics Nation.
Which players rub you the wrong way? Your reasons can be entirely rational or spawned from pure irrational disgust. Here are mine, please share yours in the comments section.
Catcher: Paul LoDuca
And it's not even close. He was the inspiration for this piece. He's the captain of the squad. From his barely-legal proclivities to his now hilarious "we'll be drinking the champagne in October" commentary, LoDouche-a sets an extremely high bar that can only be approached be a select few. Add the fact that he's continually puffed up in the press for his "gritty leadership" and we have a winner.
First Base: Dmitri Young
As easy as the catcher position was, this one was hard to select, and Young was just kind of the default "winner" by virtue of being morbidly obese. And the "pick a Met" strategy won't work here for me since I actually like Carlos Delgado.
Second Base: Jeff Kent
His reputation for being a bigger jerk than Barry Bonds notwithstanding, his corny early-80s porn 'stache and the fact that it always seemed like he raked the Phillies (corroborated by a .901 career OPS against them) gives Jeff Diggler the trophy in this category.
Shortstop: Derek Jeter
And it's not even that I hate Jeter as much as I can't stand his fans, who clap and clap as if it will make Tinkerbell come back to life, who believe in unicorns and wizards and that Jeter is an Extra Special Winner, a True Yankee. I actually respect Jeter as a player but resent the way Alex Rodriguez, superior in every way shy of fist pumps and gritted teeth, takes all the flak for the Yankees recent postseason failures.
Third Base: Lawrence "Chipper" Jones, Jr.
An easy choice. Familiarity breeds contempt. His ceaseless bitching and moaning about Citizens Bank Park, balls and strikes, etc., are tiresome. The Hooters waitress stories are legendary now. And the frosting is his whining about David Wright winning the Gold Glove this year. Jesus, man, grow a pair.
Left Field: Juan Pierre
Sort of like Jeter in that it's not the player I hate, as much as it is his loyal sycophants in the media -- Chris Wheeler in particular. By all accounts Pierre is a terrific guy, a hard worker, model citizen, etc., but none of this changes the fact that he's a mediocre baseball player who has been turned into some kind of mythological beast by front offices and coaching staffs around the game. This worship led to Pierre's brain-scrambling 5 year/$50 million contract with the Dodgers last offseason. Not bad, Juan.
Center Field: Jim Edmonds
God I hate this prick. Have you ever seen a more sullen asshole on the baseball field? I could go into a deconstructionist essay on race (conventional wisdom says Edmonds: gritty and focused; Sheffield: bitter and ornery), but I've also never seen a player more overpraised for getting bad jumps on fly balls, then diving at the last minute to make a "spectacular" catch on a ball that a guy like Andruw Jones would have caught in a brisk trot. BOOOOO!
Right Field: Jeff Francoeur
A face made for slapping. This is an irrational choice but I'm allowed to because it's my article, so piss off.
Starting Pitcher 1: John Smoltz
The Chipper Jones of Pitchers. The King of the "Whine about CBP" Kingdom. Add in the fact that he's a bigoted homophobe and we have a completely despicable jerk.
Starting Pitcher 2: Curt Schilling
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH GEORGE BUSH BLAH BLAH WARCRAFT BLAH BLAH BLOODY SOCK PAY ATTENTION I'M CURT SCHILLING BLAH BLAH BLAH. I curse God every day for giving the blowhard know-it-all right wing asshole in my World Politics 101 class a Hall of Fame arm and a soapbox.
Starting Pitcher 3: Roger Clemens
Rounding out the geriatric trio is this turdmonkey. The coy little "will I come out of retirement?" game got old in 2005. And for unleashing the braying orgasmic ululations of Suzyn Waldman on the world this past season, he is doubly condemned. May you be forced to enter the Hall of Fame in a Blue Jays cap.
Relief Pitcher 1: Billy Wagner
Bahahahhahahahahaha!!!! Almost to be pitied because he doesn't know when to shut his mouth. Beating him is always extremely satisfying.
Relief Pitcher 2: Todd Jones
See John Smoltz entry. I find it really cute that two of the most vocal homophobes in the game are the owners of two of the sweetest, most neatly landscaped facial hair arrays I've ever seen.
Miscellaneous Pitcher: Honorable Mention: Brett Myers
Manager: Bobby Cox
See: Brett Myers.
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Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
C: Paul Lo Duca - Slam dunk winner here
1B: Kevin Youkilis - I just hate him. I hate his batting stance, his rabid-dog looks at the plate, the way he runs, and his stupid beard.
2B: Kelly Johnson - He idolizes Chipper Jones. That's all the reasoning I need
SS: Jose Reyes - Slam dunk. I'd slap him if given the chance.
3B: Chipper freaking Jones - Posted without comment
LF: Geoff Jenkins - I hate his batting stance, I hate his face, and I hate how he seemingly kills the Phillies. F him and all of the Brewers
CF: Jim Edmonds - Couldn't agree more here.
RF: JD Drew - Never forget.....
SP1: John Smoltz - Grade A jerk.
SP2: Chris Young - He looks like a giraffe, and the way he throws the baseball makes me really uncomfortable
SP3: Curt Schilling - For all the reasons given by the bakestar
SP4: Josh Beckett - I'd love to rip that stupid necklace off of him and shove it down his throat....
SP5: AJ Burnett - What an arrogant ass.
CL1: Billy Wagner - No need to expoud
CL2: Jose Mesa - He was once a closer, and he ruined one of the best summers of my youth
Manager: Bobby Cox - Wife beating, crying piece of crap.
Announcer: Skip Caray - Just freaking shut up already!
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WE should also do one where we list our favorite non-Phillies
by FTN414 on Nov 23, 2007 12:21 PM EST reply actions
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
C: Brian Schneider - Lo Duca is a close second for me, but Brian Schneider is just so bad and yet he continually kills the Phils...or at least it seemed like he did.
1b: Kevin Millar - I looked through the list, and I don't think there is another 1b/DH who strikes me as more disgusting than Millar. (Honorable Mention: Adam LaRoche)
2b: Jeff Kent - Hands down.
SS: David Eckstein - Not a very good player and yet front offices and the media love him because he is "gritty" (read: WHITE).
3b: Chipper Jones - see above
LF: Johnny Damon - I have hated Damon for so long. Mainly because he looks so damn awkward and he throws like the kid from Sandlot.
CF: Jim Edmonds - Never thought about it before I read this post, but looking at the list of CF's I have to agree.
RF: J.D. Drew - You know.
SP1: Curt Schilling - Baker summed it up excellently.
SP2: Kenny Rogers - Anyone who feels the need to attack a cameraman for doing his job is despicable in my opinion.
SP3: John Smoltz - I doubt he disagreed with much his former teammate John Rocker had to say, hes just better at filtering his own garbage.
SP4: Paul Byrd - Found God and quit Porn. Great. I'm not even kidding: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=alipour/071016&sportCat=mlb
SP5: Scott Olsen - At this point I am just amused by this kid. From fighting with cops (if he was Black he would have been shot by the way) to his whole hating the Phillies nonsense I think he deserves a spot on the team.
RP1: Jose Mesa - So many reasons. He sucks, he rapes women, etc. Look up despicable in the dictionary and I'm pretty sure there will be a picture of Jose there. (Honorable Mention: Ugueth Urbina).
RP2: Brett Myers - He is also one of the more disgusting people playing any sport right now, and he beat his wife.
RP3: Billy Wagner - Thank goodness for Pat Burrell.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
I have to agree with Drew over Buy-a-Vowel in RF.
As for Derek Jeter, he gave Jessica Alba the herpes. That makes me irrationally angry.
I nominate Mike Hampton to lead the DL for this team. Hated his contract, the BS reason he gave for taking it, his ensuing service for the Braves (whom I hate the way BGNJason hates the Mets), and the fact that he stuck it to the Phillies during his otherwise unremarkable non-injured time with said Braves.
Next we could do an all-time list. Mine would be chock full of Montreal Expos.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
On a side note: look, I know this list is totally subjective and probably half-joking but I don't get the Schilling thing. Who cares what his politics are?
by enterpsmith on Nov 23, 2007 5:49 PM EST reply actions
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
I don't really get the Beckett thing either.
I would definitely include Bonds and Sosa in my outfield. The third spot would be a toss-up between Damon and Manny.
Other than that I don't disagree with an of the other picks.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
"Aww shucks we gotta work harder" doesn't cut it in that situation or in New York.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
First off, he hit like a man possessed down the stretch; if there's anyone less deserving of blame for the Mets' collapse, I couldn't name him. I forget the numbers offhand but Joe Sheehan had him in one of his MVP columns.
Second, I get what you're saying but at age 24, Wright probably felt--much like, say, Jimmy Rollins in 2003--that it wasn't his place to speak up with Delgado, LoDickhead, Alou, Castillo, Green et al on hand. Didn't Billy Wagner smack down some younger player (Milledge?) for some action deemed offensive by the Alpaca Kid?
I like Wright's game. I do fear that if the Mets ever win it all, the NY media will give him Permanent Jeter Fellatio treatment, and at that point he might go on this team. But for now he strikes me just as a young ballplayer who matches great talent with great effort.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
OK, seriously, I like Curt. Even had the pleasure of exchanging posts with him on GEnie. Boy, if that doesn't date the pair of us!
Um, if there's an all-time MDT thread, how many positions can I list Pete Rose at?
by Dalton Bouchee on Nov 24, 2007 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
IRod for all his mankisses and lack of walks.
Marcus Giles, um, more hated than Kent, easily.
Dontrell Willis.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
by FuquaManuel on Nov 23, 2007 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
Re: Ryan Church
Re: Ryan Church
by enterpsmith on Nov 24, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Are you really using ignorance or naivete as an excuse for hate? I'm not saying Church hates Jews, he just thinks they're doomed and that it's up to Church and the Church to spread the word.
I'm unaware of any such discussion at midseason, but the topic at hand was players I have the most distaste for, and damned if I don't have a sincere distaste for a guy who wants to convert me because he's scared I'll burn in hell.
Ignorance (which I think is the root of this issue, rather than naivete) is a joke. The root of nearly all hate is ignorance. That's no excuse. Naive is simply a buttered up word -- a child is ignorant of the ways of world, and therefore naive. Sounds cute, but the basic meaning is the same.
Re: What?
Let me be clear: I'm not defending Ryan Church. I think he's a pretty ignorant dude. I just don't think there's evidence that he holds his view out of malice rather than ignorance. And I think it's important, given how toxic calling someone a bigot is (and rightly so since we all agree that hate is really ugly) that the burden of proof be on people claiming someone else is a bigot.
As to the general proposition that ignorance is at the root of almost all hate, I think you're giving hateful people too much credit. Bigots know that their views/actions are based on invalid premises and they do it anyway. There's really no convincing them they're wrong.
Now, does ignorance sometimes cause hate? No question. Do people sometimes do hateful things based on ignorant premises? Absolutely. Does this mean it's OK to be ignorant? No. But they're two different things. Finally, it's not like it's great to be ignorant; I consider being ignorant pretty bad.
by enterpsmith on Nov 24, 2007 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
The end result is the same
"Hate is an irrationally held prejudice against someone or something."
This is not true. Hate is often cold, calculated, and very learned -- however, it is, in spite of this learnedness, inherently ignorant. If one goes through every life experience of the person one hates, invariably one will find oneself not hating that person, since the experiences will make you feel as a cousin to that person. Ignorance does not sometimes cause hate, ignorance is the invariable root of all hate.
Your definition of hate is different than mine, if yours is "an irrationally held prejudice against someone or something. It implies that even if you present evidence that a particular view is wrong, that person will still hold their prejudicial view." In my experience (and, therefore, in my own opinion which may be entirely incorrect in your eyes but is completely and utterly true in mine), hate is the active or passive attacking or undermining of another person or group of persons for the sake of one's own benefit or personal gain. It doesn't have to be irrational, and it can be changed at any time, but it is a result of at least 1 of the 4 base emotions (happy, sad, surprise, anger) of which all other emotions are comprised. Hate can be comprised of more than one, and can be different when the ingredients vary, but the result is the same, whether by ignorance or by choice.
Church believes my people will burn in hell. Church believes it is his duty to convert them away from my religion into his, thus weakening my people while strengthening his. If this is not active aggression, which is a result of hate/ignorance/calculated plans/whatever you want to call it, then nothing is.
For a parallel, consider murder. Not everyone who commits murder is the same psychologically -- many really don't know the depth of what they are doing. Some know full well, and do it out of extreme passion. The end result is the loss of a life. The punishment for each should not be the same, as the murderers are not equal in their culpability. Still, murder is murder, and when all is said and done every person guilty is still culpable, and should not be left entirely unpunished just because they were ignorant and not hateful.
I know you're not trying to defend Church, but the very act of coming up with an excuse (which is what you're doing, no offense meant, and I'm not sure you're aware) is in and of itself a defense. I doubt very much that Church has changed his views significantly, and given that he deserves a starting spot on my all-distaste team.
Re: The end result is the same
I kind of like to know - that even in a really weird and scary way - someone is looking out for my future well being.
by FuquaManuel on Nov 25, 2007 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Re: The end result is the same
If that's not what's causing the disagreement, then frankly, I just don't buy your definition. If hate is "the active or passive attacking or undermining of another person or group of persons for the sake of one's own benefit or personal gain" then we'd have to classify lots of things as hateful that we probably don't want to, like all types of competition. Competition can be intense and have high stakes, but I think you'd have a hard time claiming that it's hate. Btw, for the record, the dictionary bears out my definition.
Second, I think your defense of why ignorance is at the root of all hate is a bit weak. Ok, maybe everyone would recognize some common humanity if we all walked a mile in another's shoes. Or maybe it would just make everyone more hateful. Maybe things would be all sunshine and puppies; or maybe they'd be all land mines and hailstorms. The point is that we can't possibly know this because there's no way to test this theory. It can't count as evidence then.
Third, I'm not defending Church and frankly, I resent that you implied I was doing so unknowingly. What he said was ignorant and intolerant. That's a very serious thing in my mind. I just don't think it was hateful because the context of the conversation suggests that if the chaplain had given a different answer, Church would have made a different conclusion. Everyone has the right to be wrong so long as they're willing to change their mind given a good argument against their position.
Fourth, the goalposts on the criteria for this list keep changing. First it was the all-despicable team, which implies an objective standard, the article allows for irrational dislike, and you suggested the all-distaste team. They're not the same. The only reason I got involved at all on this thread was because I was working under the impression that there was some sort of objective standard that we were applying. If there's not, though, there really isn't much of a point to commenting. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and maybe some are dogmatically held.
Finally, I'll read if you respond because I think it's always good to have a competition of ideas but I probably won't respond. I've laid out my case fairly clearly, I think, and at the end of the day, that's all you can really do.
by enterpsmith on Nov 25, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Re: The end result is the same
I stand by my arguments -- we should agree to disagree =-)
I do think that (from experience I've had on capital punishment cases) the more people know about someone's past, the less likely they are to dislike (hate) them. For example, a whole lotta people hated Scott Peterson, but there's enough to that story not mentioned by the media that makes me (a guy who really didn't like Mr. Peterson) not dislike him nearly as much -- I would go into detail, but I'm afraid I have to pull the "I can't really talk about it" card and just hope you don't think I'm bullshitting. It's not the ol' "just walk in their shoes!" so much as a fundamental belief based on stuff that I know about genetics and neuropsychology that states that people are predicted by their genes but produced by their experiences -- I don't mean putting ourselves in someone else's shoes so much as literally living and breathing every single second the other person lived and breathed. People that have identical experiences tend to end up with similar behavioral patterns and beliefs. I didn't mean that to come across as naive, it's real research that I'm referring to.
I didn't mean to change the goalposts - I find despicable a harsher form of the word hate, so I tried to put my own criteria for my own post -- guys I find distasteful (I find Lo Duca distasteful, not despicable) or would not want.
To be honest, I'm not so sure that we're really arguing so much as stating our own points of view on hatred. Still, I do agree with you now that maybe "hate" is too strong of a word for Church, and I can see what you mean that all he said was a product of his chaplain. Nevertheless, I find him distasteful enough (not despicable) that I wouldn't want him on my team.
the booth
that would have to be joe morgan and tim mccarver. wheels can do on-field reporting from up jose reyes' ass.
Re: the booth
Re: the booth
Plus, one year of Sarge = one year of postseason. Coincidence?
(Okay, probably it is.)
Re: the booth
by FuquaManuel on Nov 25, 2007 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Re: the booth
by David S. Cohen on Nov 26, 2007 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Re: the booth
Re: the booth
by Homer on Nov 26, 2007 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Re: the booth
by David S. Cohen on Nov 26, 2007 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Re: the booth
Crying on air when the Yankees got eliminated. Freaking out when Roger Clemens announced he was coming back... just comical.
I suppose I don't despise her... I just think she's ridiculous.
Re: the booth
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
1B: Ryan Klesko, I guess. Leftover hate, as the dude hasn't been good for a while, but he really bugged me then. Now, he sucks SO badly, it bugs me that he has a job.
2B: Kent. Please. Kaz Matsui would, but he sucked so badly for the Mets that I have a soft spot for him.
3B: Nick Punto. It's literally ridiculous that he's had a major-league regular job for 3 years. I can't imagine there are modern-day hitters with a 69 OPS+ who held corner infield jobs for 3 years. It's so... inefficient... that it pissed me off.
SS: Jose Reyes. Best player in the league, my ass.
LF: Alfonso Soriano. Glad I'm not paying him.
CF: Juan Pierre. Ugh.
RF: Jeff Francoeur. Again I say Ugh.
SP: Adam Eaton. Talentless, overpaid asshat.
SP: Smoltz. Smarmy asshat.
SP: Glavine. I effing hate his strikezone.
RP: Wagner. And I really used to like him, when he was in Houston.
RP: Todd Jones. For all the reasons stated, and his suck-ass 35-hits-in-25-inning stint as a Phil.
RP: Bob Wickman.
Manager: LaRussa.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
C: Pierzynski. Just an ass. Hon. mention Dave Ross, who is one of the poster boys for Baseball Prospectus' habit of overvaluing prospects. They predicted he'd be the starting catcher for the U.S. in the WBC because their system showed he'd clearly be the best American catcher. Last year's OPS: 670. Don't get me wrong, I love BP to death; this is just a blind spot of theirs.
1B: Sean Casey. Not really despicable at all, just here by default to fill the spot. Irritating that he gets all the love for being a charismatic white guy even though he can't hit.
2B: Kent. An ass. HM: Jamey Carroll for being an irritating twerp. Not a good reason, I'll grant.
3B: Adrian Beltre, for having pulled a Brady Anderson to get his megadeal and then reverting to sucking. He's now gotten back to average, but he's not anywhere near justifying his contract. HM: A-rod, I guess, b/c it's annoying that he's always trying to be what he thinks the media wants him to be. Also Shea Hillenbrand for thinking he's all that when he ain't.
SS: Felipe Lopez for helping to kill my fantasy team by not even hitting, which is the only reason he's out there since he's a weak fielder. HM: Eckstein, for the same reasons as everyone else. Also, did Jeter really give Jessica Alba herpes?
LF: Bonds. Ass. HM: Shannon Stewart for getting people to call him an MVP candidate when he joined the Twins a few years ago, in a classic post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy. Also Chris Duncan - call me old fashioned, but it seems to me you oughta be able to field at least a little bit if they're paying you to wield a glove out there. I never saw the Bull in action, but I take it Duncan is the closest thing we have to a modern-day Luzinski.
CF: Darin Erstad plays the David Eckstein role here. HM: Gary Matthews Jr. plays the Adrian Beltre role here. Also, Marlon Byrd beat his girlfriend but that was a while ago and he went to counseling, so it's only an HM; also he gets credit for persevering and coming back to post pretty good numbers for the '07 Rangers.
RF: J.D. His record speaks for itself.
SP: Scott Olsen does seem like a bad dude.
SP: Schill. He's not all bad by any means. I think it's cool that he blogs, speaks his mind, interacts with fans, supports charity, and plenty of other things. But - I know politics should be minimized on this site, so I'm not making any kind of pronouncement here, I'm just giving you my personal motivation - he campaigned for Bush.
SP: So many candidates for the Darren Dreifort memorial slot - Barry Zito may have the slot renamed for him, come to think of it, but I can't hate Barry Zito. Gotta give this to Adam Eaton for doing it to my own team.
RP: Jose Mesa both kills the Phils from within AND is a bad dude.
RP: Todd Jones. Am I misremembering this, or was Jones one of the Tigers who sexually harassed flight attendants on that flight a few years back? In addition to being a professional gay-basher?......I'm misremembering: the woman said Jones was a perfect gentleman. So give him credit for that. But he stays for the gay-bashing.
Incidentally, sticking to my own rules, I won't add people due to what I just (re-)learned from that article about the infamous flight, but it should be noted that Brad Ausmus, Bobby Higginson, Doug Brocail, and Matt Anderson are pigs.
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
by David S. Cohen on Nov 29, 2007 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Re: My 2007 Most Despicable Team
by The Navigator on Nov 30, 2007 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
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