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Parting Ways With Rowand

For months now, I've been on the fence, or rather on both sides of the fence, about whether or not the Phillies should re-sign Aaron Rowand. On the plus side, there's his (now-official) Gold Glove defense, his right-handed power, improved on-base skills and clubhouse presence. On the minus side, he's 30 and an injury risk, he'll command at least four years for at least $10-11 million per year--and maybe much more--and as always when signing a non-superstar free agent, there's a very significant chance you'll wind up paying for what he's done, not what he will do.

I'm getting off the fence. The Phillies should offer Rowand arbitration and a hearty and sincere thank-you for a job well done, and move on without him.

Star-divide

The latest rumors have Rowand seeking at least a four-year deal for $52 million. Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated is on record predicting Rowand will get four years, $56 million. That's $13-14 million a year for a non-superstar's age 31 through 34 seasons.

It's hard to believe he's going to be worth it. Baseball Reference has among Rowand's top comparables Eric Byrnes, whose three-year, $30 million deal would have been palatable for the Phillies, and then Hank Leiber and Wally Judnich, both of whom were finished in the game by age 32. His next two comps are guys I've actually heard of: Shane Mack, who was done as a regular after his age-30 season, and Kal Daniels, an absurdly talented outfielder who couldn't stay healthy and retired at 29. Further down the list are Casey Blake, Mike Lamb and Milton Bradley--all good players, but none of whom are remotely worth $13 million per season.

The projections out for 2008 aren't overly optimistic about Rowand replicating his outstanding 2007 numbers. ZIPS projects him for a .276 average, with .339 on-base percentage and .444 SLG; Bill James has Rowand hitting .287/.347/.473. (Thanks to TGP contributors MattS for posting these numbers, and phatj for formatting them, here. Matt's own projections have Rowand at .290/.349/.473.) With Aaron's strong defense and other contributions, that's arguably worth $13-14 million... but presumably it goes downhill from there.

Were the Phillies possessed of unlimited financial resources like the Yankees or Mets, and/or had no other centerfield options--as some evidently believe to be the case--it might be worth taking the chance anyway. But they aren't, and they do. Committing $50 million or so to Rowand bears a serious opportunity cost, blocking the team from adding another impact player this winter and impairing their capacity to do so in future seasons.

At the same time, they've got Shane Victorino, whose bat plays adequately in right field but very well in center. Shifting Victorino to center, of course, creates some vacancy in right. If Rowand doesn't come back and Victorino takes CF, it looks like Jayson Werth will have some or all of the right field job; the team is confident that Werth can sustain his level of production in a larger role. I'd prefer they match him up with a more potent platoon partner than Greg Dobbs, and it should be possible to do so through trade or free agency, this winter or during the season, at a much lower cost and shorter commitment than Rowand will require.

I'm not saying the Phillies shouldn't want Rowand back at any pirce. If he'd take a three-year deal for less than, say, $38 million, that's probably a good call. Even if they could get him for four years, $40 million, it's close enough that the move could be positive. But that ship probably has sailed, and at this point Rowand would be foolish not to explore a seller's market. If he signs somewhere for five years, $60 million--and I don't think that's an impossibility--more power to him, and I wish him well against 28 teams. We'll move on with Victorino, two high draft picks, and salary flexibility, and hopefully it works out for everybody.

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Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
If he wants 4/52, then yep, seeya. If he wanted 3-30 or 4-40, I'd have brought him back and traded Victorino. I'll go on record and say that if Werth gets 350-400 PA next year, he'll be lucky to crack a .750 OPS. My hope is that they decide to acquire a better corner OF option and stick with using Dobbs at 3B and Werth as a 4th OF/defensive replacement for Burrell.

by FTN414 on Nov 9, 2007 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
If Werth stays healthy, .750 will be highly unlucky.  Something in the .780 range is a fair conservative expectation and .800 is also reasonable.

I am not at all certain that Rowand (who's also injury prone) is any better of a hitter than Werth in a straight-up comparison. They're certainly in the same ballpark.

by taco pal on Nov 9, 2007 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
I think it's almost a sure thing that Werth won't stay healthy. He never has, and until he does, there's no reason to assume he will. In 2005 he had the most PA in one season in his career with 395, and he posted a .712 OPS. This season, in 304 PA he posted an .863 OPS. Did he learn a new hitting skill at age 28? He has a ridiculously high strikeout rate and always has, and while he draws a good amount of walks (12-14% of his PA), I don't think it offsets the 24-28% K rate. His isolated power is nothing to write home about, about .150 in 2005 and 2007. He destroyed LHP in 2007, but put up a .655 OPS against LHP in 2005. He had a great August and a mediocre September. He has a really long swing and has an inconsistent track record in terms of his splits, plus he'll be 29.

He may end up close to .800 than .750, but it's almost a lock that he'll be on the DL at least once, and he's going to strike out a ton. If his walk rate dips, a good chunk of his value does too.

by FTN414 on Nov 9, 2007 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
Werth certainly has his flaws, but enumerating them doesn't answer the question at hand. The operative question here is whether and to what degree Werth is a step down from Rowand.

You've mentioned Werth's two biggest weaknesses: (1) his propensity to get hurt, and (2) his high strikeout rate. However, Rowand isn't great in these areas either. He may not be as injury-prone as Werth, but he is still pretty injury-prone. And Rowand will strike out a bit too. Per 500 ABs, Rowand can be expected to punch out about 100 times, Werth aobut 150 times, so we're talking about a difference of 33%. That's significant, but not mind-boggling.

As for the walks, I think your interpretation is just flat-out wrong: Werth's walk rate most certainly does offset his strikeouts, if it doesn't overwhelm them. In every phase of their respective careers, Werth has shown that he can be expected to draw walks twice as often as Rowand. We're talking about 65-75 walks over a full season, in comparison to 30-40. That has a bigger impact on getting on-base than the impact of striking out an extra 50 times and multiplying by BABIP, etc.

If Werth's power is "nothing to write home about", then neither is Rowand's. They've posted nearly identical homer rates throughout each of their careers. Rowand obviously homered a lot more often last season, but one season is one season.

by taco pal on Nov 9, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
So what is the cutoff then? A 12% walk rate more than compensates for a 28% K rate? I'm not comparing Werth to Rowand, though it appears you are. Production is expected to be higher from a corner spot than from center field. HR rate isn't important to me, extra base hit percentage and isolated power are much more important. Werth's XBH and ISO in 2005 and 2007
  1. .140 ISO, 39.2 XBH%
  2. .160 ISO, 28.9 XBH%
Since you're comparing him to Rowand
  1. .163 ISO, 36.8 XBH%
  2. .206 ISO, 38.1 XBH
Rowand's BB and K rates last year were 6.9% and 17.4%. Werth's BB and K rates were 14.5% and 24.0%. So what's the cutoff? Werth strikes out almost 25% of his PA's and has marginal power at best. Rowand's ISO in a bad 2006 was better than Werth's in his good 2007.

Werth would be an adequate center fielder offensively, but I don't think he has enough on the corner, especially because he can't be relied on. I don't see how you can even come close to justifying Rowand and Werth to be similar injury risks.

Werth's PA's since 2003

51
326
395
0
304

Rowand's PA's since 2003

170
534
640
445
684

Werth would be ok as a platoon guy, but to count on him to be a consistent run producer is pretty silly, and will likely come back to bite us.

by FTN414 on Nov 9, 2007 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
If you're not comparing Werth to Rowand, then we're talking past each other, because I am. I also think that's the topic of this thread. I fully understand that in the medium term there are options besides Rowand/Victorino vs. Victorino/Werth, but the question for the Phillies right this second is: do you preempt the open market bidding and re-sign Rowand or do you not? And to make that decision properly, in light of the fact that there are no guarantees that you'll get another OF this year, corner or otherwise, those are the two choices that need to be considered: the status quo with Rowand and the status quo without him.

I don't know what you mean by "cutoffs." When it comes to walk rate and strikeout rate, the ultimate question is: who gets on base more often? The answer is Werth. As for power, I think your analysis should go back further than just the last two years.

I didn't say that Rowand and Werth were similar injury risks. I said that Werth's disadvantage in that area is not as great as it would normally be. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't mischaracterize my arguments.

by taco pal on Nov 9, 2007 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
I don't know that Werth is injury prone.  He got hit in the wrist with a pitched ball and it broke a bone and tore a ligament.  The doctors didn't discover the torn ligament until he was trying to come back from the bone break so he lost a ton of playing time.  

Does that make him injury prone?  I don't know but it doesn't seem so to me.  He did injure a wrist last season too.  I'm not even sure it was the same one.  He might be injury prone and maybe he hurts his wrist every year.  But maybe he just had a run of bad luck.  It's not like he has hamstring problems or knee or shoulder problems that constantly keep him out of the lineup.

I think his low plate appearances are attribtable to him not being a starter as much as his injuries.  Last season he would have had a ton of ABs if he was a starter.  He didn't miss much time due to injury with that one DL trip.

Werth is a very good athlete.  He runs well.  He has power and good strike zone judgment.  was out for a long long time and came back and had a very fine season.  He's not a youngster but he's had his career delayed by injuries.  He is another guy who can be a late bloomer.  

I expect him to have a lower average but more power if he gets a decent amount of ABs next year.  The Phils have the ability to have 4 or 5 good outfielders next season if they don't resign Rowand.  They'll have some dough to pick up a guy like Jenkins or even a one year deal for Andruw.  

I'd hate to sign Rowand to a 4 year big $$$ contract and have him have a 2006 type season next year and be all washed up in the third year of the deal.

I think Rowand is a fine player and he might have another year or two like last seaosn in him.  But I think there are other ways to get good production out of the outfield rather than giving a long term big $$$ contract to a non superstar player in his 30s.

by smitty @ The Good Phight on Nov 9, 2007 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

History....
Johnny Damon was the hero of Boston... Loved by all... and 2 years ago he signed with the Yankees.  Sure he's 2 years older then than Rowand is now... but how's that working out?  His Ops+ was 97 I believe this year.  Rowand the past four years was 130, 93, 86, 123....   106 for his career.  Damon is 102.  The way I look at it....  I'm pretty sure we can get the same production out of Victorino for a lot less money... Sure.. Shane's cookouts might not be as good, but those sure are expensive if Aaron is running the grill

by Homer on Nov 9, 2007 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

Re: History....
the problem with Damon isn't really his offense, it's that his defense is atrocious. he still gets on base at a .350-.360 clip and is an effective base-stealer. if he was at least a competent centerfielder, a $13M salary would be bad but not lethal, especially with the Yankees' deep pockets.

of course, his defense is indeed terrible, and he can't really play anywhere except LF or DH. there, his OBP/speed just isn't worth it.

by perfectdepth on Nov 9, 2007 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
One of the things that really excites me about Rowand leaving is having Victorino in center.  He'll cover much more ground and have much more impact with his arm.  I could be wrong, but he seems like he could be a great center-fielder.  I know some metrics and awards show Rowand was too, but it never seemed true to me.  His range is not great, although he sure does try hard.  And his arm is horrible.

Our pitching will be better simply from having improved up-the-middle defense - Utley, Rollins, and Victorino would have to be among the best up-the-middle group in baseball.

by David S. Cohen on Nov 9, 2007 4:49 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
Werth was mentioned in the original entry as possibly having RF all to himself, and that's why I made the comment I did. My comments had to do with him playing every day, remaining healthy, and being productive enough to be an every day player. You started comparing him to Rowand. The only comment I made about Rowand was that if the reports on what he was seeking are true, then it was best to pass.

People are just wishcasting on Werth. The man has NEVER logged 400 PA's in a season, let alone the 600+ that an every day player would accumulate. You can blame it on whatever you want. The fact is, he'll be 29 this year. The odds of him playing a full season are slim. If the Phillies are planning around him getting 600 plate appearances, they're simply being foolish, but I wouldn't put it past them. He might have a great skill set, but he's never been an every day player, and he's never played a full season. It doesn't mean he can't, but it means the odds of it aren't great.

We're not a small market team, I just wish we'd stop operating like one. We shouldn't have to rely on a big question mark in RF and a moderate sized question mark in CF, and a black hole at 3B, we should be able to find better options. That said, I don't expect it, and unless our team somehow manages to beat the odds again next year, we'll regress back into the 85-87 win range with the pitching staff we're likely to depend on. Things might change before Spring Training, but again, not holding my breath.

by FTN414 on Nov 9, 2007 5:48 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
Werth logged more than 400 PAs in a season 3 times in the minors.  Does that not count?

I am nit HUGE on Werth, but I think he can certainly play a full season.

by jonk on Nov 9, 2007 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
I don't think the Phils need to get 600 PAs out of Werth.  But I think he can do 450 easy.  And again, with Rowand gone they can pick up another outfielder who can hit.  In my view, it would be best if Victorino and Werth were a little less than full time players.  A fourth outfielder who can play isn't that hard to get and the Phils WON'T be relying on 600 PAs from Werth.  

I think Werth can get on base.  I think he has power.  I think he runs well, has a nice arm and can play the field.  That's what tyou want from an outfielder I think.  Whether he can get to 600 PAs is not even relevant to the discussion in my view.  Youput together an outfield with Burrell, Vic and Werth and one more guy who can hit and you've got a good to very good outfield.  I don't see anything wrong with this.  

I liked your ideas regading Church and Jones and Headley Lamar in your other article here.  I don't see the Phils doing that though.  That doesn't mean your idea wasn't brilliant.  But I think this thread is more about specualtion about what the Phils most likely will do.  I could be wrong.

I can see them going with Burrell, Vic, Werth and one more guy who can hit.  And that ain't half bad in my view.

 

by smitty @ The Good Phight on Nov 9, 2007 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
I'm pretty much in agreement with smitty here. We don't need 600 PA from Werth; we need 400-450 PA. Manuel won't run him out there every day. I'd just like to get him a better partner in platoon than Dobbs.

I also think it's possible, though maybe not likely, that a full spring with Manuel and Thompson shortens his swing a little bit and propels him to hit closer to the high end of that .750-.800 OPS range.

by dajafi on Nov 9, 2007 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
I wonder if the Phils even are considering Dobbs as a platoon partner in the outfield.  I wouldn't.  I'm not even sure Dobbs is going to be any good in 2008 and I certainly wouldn't want him as a corner outfielder.

Gillick has been pretty good at getting spare outfielders who can hit.  Dellucci had a superb year in '06 and Werth last season.  (Wade found Victorino as well so the Phils as an organization have done pretty well here).

Whether it's Jenkins or someone else, I think a 4th outfielder who can hit is doable.  Then I'd like to see Jacobs or even T. J. Bohn given a chance as the 5th guy.

by smitty @ The Good Phight on Nov 10, 2007 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
I hope you're right. I just read that Jenkins would not require parting with any draft picks, so presumably that makes him more attractive... though, of course, not just to the Phillies. I do think he'd be a good fit, and he's a sufficiently strong defender that he could directly or indirectly play that Burrell late-inning caddy role now vacant with Bourn's departure (as could Bruntlett).

by dajafi on Nov 10, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
The real important question is, does an OF of just fulltime Victo and Werth have less WHITE than an OF of Rowand + Victo/Werth?

by das411 on Nov 10, 2007 2:12 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
Apparently the Giants could offer Rowand 5 years 80 million...

Goodbye!

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Nov 13, 2007 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
Not 80 mil...

"Ken Davidoff says: If you need a centerfielder, this is your year. Rowand comes with a "grinder" reputation and off a career year.

Prediction: Giants. A five-year, $70-million deal."

Bleeding Green Nation Philadelphia Eagles Blog

by JasonB on Nov 13, 2007 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Parting Ways With Rowand
Still a terrible, terrible deal. It's not a fluke that these are the guys who signed Barry Zito--whose track record belies the fact that he has #4-#5 starter stuff these days--to the richest pitching contract ever. If the Giants do this one, they'll deserve what they get, and in two years at the outside they'll be praying for some team to relieve them from their mistake as the Pirates did with Matt Morris.

by dajafi on Nov 14, 2007 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

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