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Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?

As the Baseball Writers Association of America deliberates over who, if anyone, will gain permanent admission to the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY next summer, fans' thoughts inevitably turn to who among their current heroes might be up for similar consideration in ten or fifteen years' time. The Phillies, with a talent core probably the equal of any team in MLB right now, have a few candidates. At this point, the one who's perhaps easiest to handicap--which is not to say "easy"--is Jimmy Rollins, whose seventh big-league season was his best yet. At age 28, Rollins put all the facets of his offensive game together, becoming just the second Phillie to reach the elusive 30-30 (home runs and steals) plateau, adding a league-best 20 triples and 139 runs among other gaudy numbers, earning his first Gold Glove and Silver Slugger, and winning NL Most Valuable Player honors.

That MVP trophy likely gives a serious boost to Rollins' eventual HoF chances, as we'll see in a bit. But I have to admit that I'd been thinking about his Cooperstown candidacy months before that same BBWAA awarded him the MVP. Through 2007, his stats are on pace to compare favorably with most of the 21 shortstops currently enshrined, and they don't look bad compared to Derek Jeter, the perennial Yankees all-star who has long been assumed a Cooperstown lock five years after he ends his career. Through seven seasons, Rollins has 1,307 hits, 769 runs, 81 triples, 114 HR, and 248 steals; at the same juncture, Jeter had 1,390 hits, 839 runs, 38 triples, 117 HR, and 167 steals. Rollins has an MVP, a Gold Glove and a Silver Slugger; Jeter had none of those at the same point in his career (admittedly, with Alex Rodriguez still a shortstop and Omar Vizquel vacuuming up the defensive hardware during this period, this was a tougher proposition). Jeter had five all-star appearances, to Rollins' three.

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Perhaps a more encouraging sign for Rollins' Hall hopes is that for three years running now, Baseball Reference has had Ryne Sandberg as his most comparable player by age. (Jeter is 9th on this list.) In counting stats, Rollins bests Sandberg pretty much across the board, though the friendlier offensive environment of the early 21st century probably cancels this out. Indeed, Rollins' career OPS+ of 98 isn't close to Sandberg's mark of 108 through this point at his career (much less Jeter's 121); a couple legitimately lousy seasons toward the start of Jimmy's career (85 OPS+ in 2002, 90 in 2003) continue to drag down his averages. In addition to Sandberg, the ten most comparable includes another Hall of Famer in Travis Jackson, a sure immortal-to-be in Jeter, and solid Hall candidates Roberto Alomar (not yet eligible) and Alan Trammell--Rollins' second-best comp through age 28--who might have to wait for the Veterans Committee despite Bill James' evaluation of him as the ninth-best shortstop of all time.

Speaking of James, the sabermetric visionary once developed an interesting if admittedly subjective battery of questions to evaluate a player's Hall of Fame candidacy beyond mere numbers, known as The Keltner List. Let's see how Rollins stacks up by this test:

1.    Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

This is necessarily a tough one to answer, but the MVP award suggests that a "yes" response is at least defensible. As always with questions like this, it depends how you define "best." I'd characterize Rollins as no better than the second-best player on the Phillies (Utley), let alone MLB, but the writers would seem to feel differently.  

2.    Was he the best player on his team?

By the same logic, the answer is an arguable "yes." Personally, as noted above, I don't think so.  

3.    Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

Not to be a broken record, but as the question is a variation on the previous two, so too is the answer. If anything, I find it easier to argue that Rollins is the best shortstop in the NL, if not MLB--a distinction he earns by virtue of being "better" than Hanley Ramirez (a superior hitter but far inferior fielder) and Jose Reyes (who collapsed down the stretch for the 2007 Mets)--than that he's a "better" player than Utley or Ryan Howard.  

4.    Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

Here we get a little clearer. The answer is obviously yes, and this was true even before his MVP year. Rollins closed 2005 (.308/.363/.470 after the all-star break, including the 36-game hitting streak to finish the season) and 2006 (.298/.346/.540) in furious fashion, helping to lift the Phillies into playoff contention in both seasons.  

5.    Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime?

At age 29 in 2008, we don't yet know. My guess however is that as Rollins ages, his offensive game will continue its already-evident migration from an emphasis on speed to one on power. His walks could increase, leading to a rise in on-base percentage even as his stolen base totals drop. A question not yet worth worrying about is what will happen if and when Rollins needs to move off shortstop; with Utley at second base and Howard presumably ensconced at first, could Rollins eventually move to his right at take over at third base? Will he back up a hundred feet to play left field?  

6.    Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

No, given that we don't actually think he's the best player in the game today.

7.    Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?

Yes. Rollins' numbers compare favorably to most of the Hall of Fame shortstops. Of course, "comparable" is a slippery concept here; players like Rabbit Maranville and even Phil Rizzuto were standout shortstops in periods when the offensive expectations from the position didn't approach those of today.

8.    Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
9.    Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

Yes to both. As noted above, he's actually ahead of the Hall standards for shortstops, and as noted a month or so back here, on the statistical merits, he probably wouldn't have won MVP honors.

10.    Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?

Not applicable, because he's not eligible.

11.    How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

Through seven full seasons, he won one MVP, finished in the top 10 another time (10th, 2005), and the top 30 three additional times (17th, 2001; 30th, 2004; 21st, 2006).

12.    How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?

Rollins has played in three all-star games, but the question is a strange one because his 2002 season, in which he started the Midsummer Classic, was probably his worst, and the '06 and '07 campaigns, arguably his two best, saw him home for all-star festivities. Probably the balance is that Rollins has had four "all-star type seasons" out of seven; if he keeps this pace through an 18-year career, he'll go to 10, and that probably bodes well for his candidacy.  

13.    If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

Likely? No.

14.    What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

No.

15.    Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

Yes. Rollins seems universally respected within the game.

Of course, the real determinant will be what happens from here on out--how long Rollins plays, and how well he plays over that span. Over the last four years, he's averaged 158 games played, 685 at-bats, 197 hits, 125 runs, 41 doubles, 13 triples, 20 homers, 76 RBI, 37 SB, and triple-slash numbers of .288/.339/.475. Six or seven more years of that, and a relatively three or four-year gentle decline phase following it, probably wins Rollins admission to baseball Valhalla: he'd finish with around 1,750 runs, 20th or so all-time; in the neighborhood of 3,000 hits; maybe 550 steals and 300 homers.

That's a pretty solid candidacy--though the other variable might well be how many return trips to October baseball the Phillies (or whoever else employs Rollins) make, and how well he performs there. A World Series MVP, for instance, would be a big spur for Jimmy's Hall of Fame case; let's get to work on that.

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Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Hanley is just such a good hitter that I think I'd take him over J-Roll even though J-Roll is the better defender. (That is, if I could set sentimental value aside. In real life, I don't think I'd have the heart to make that trade if the occasion arose.)

That said, if J-Roll puts up another two or three seasons like his '07, which is possible since 28-30 are a baseball player's prime, I think he'll have a real shot at the Hall. The SS position is unusually strong these days, and there shouldn't be any demerits for being the second or third best of this era. George Brett was the #2 third baseman of his era and it didn't hurt him with the HOF.

(Tulowitzki could end up passing Rollins at some point. His stats last year were majorly Coors Field-inflated, but on the other hand he's only 22, and he's a better hitter than Rollins was at 22. And a better fielder, I think.)

by taco pal on Dec 26, 2007 4:09 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
As I've said before, I root for Jimmy as much as the next diehard fan.  But, he needs to step up his game to be a deserving Hall of Famer.  I just can't accept putting someone in the Hall of Fame who has a career OPS+ of 98.  Granted, as dajafi points out, that's dragged down by two bad years, but if he doesn't get it, at a minimum, north of 105, it's hard to say he's one of the best ever.  After all, even at 105, he'd only be marginally better in a key measure than his contemporaries.

Which all goes to his outmaking.  He gets a "boost" in that stat by the prodigious lineup he's in, but I can't back the candidacy of someone who regularly is near the top of the charts in making outs.  Simply put, he's doing the most (or close to the most) in baseball to make it so that his team has fewer opportunities to score.  Yes, he does other things incredibly well, but making the most (or close to the most) outs is pretty much a deal-breaker for me.

by David S. Cohen on Dec 26, 2007 4:22 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Rank Player (age) Outs Bats
  1. Pete Rose#  10328 B
  2. Hank Aaron+  9136 R
  3. Carl Yastrzemski+*  9126 L
  4. Cal Ripken+  8893 R
  5. Eddie Murray+#  8570 B
  6. Rickey Henderson  8510 R
  7. Dave Winfield+  8422 R
  8. Robin Yount+  8415 R
  9. Brooks Robinson+  8340 R
  10. Craig Biggio (41) 8273 R
By my count, there are 7 Hall of Famers, two cast-iron locks, and one who should be in the Hall, on this list. These are the ten players who have made the most outs in MLB history. Why exactly is this a deal-breaker?

by das411 on Dec 28, 2007 12:57 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
because with the exception of Robinson (who is in the Hall more for his defense and played at a time when offense was much harder to come by), Rollins makes outs at a much higher rate than any of those players.

if Rollins had as many PA as Rose, he'd make 11,012 outs--684 more than Rose. if he had as many PA as Henderson, he'd make 9,266 outs--a ridiculous 756 more than Rickey. and so on. (for comparison's sake, the most outs ever made in a single season was Omar Moreno's 560 outs in 1980, when he hit all of .249/.306/.325 over 745 PA.)

by perfectdepth on Dec 28, 2007 9:50 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Surely, Rollins has a chance to end his career with a higher OBP than at least some HOFers. Why should total outs influence our perspective at all? We already have a stat that measures out rate.

by taco pal on Dec 28, 2007 10:43 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
well, his current career OBP is .331, which would put him behind 16 Hall of Fame shortstops but ahead of Joe Tinker, Rabbit Maranville, Ernie Banks, and Luis Aparicio (also John Montgomery Ward, but he's a unique case). that's not exactly a point in his favor.

by perfectdepth on Dec 28, 2007 11:21 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Yes, but that wasn't my point. I'm saying that his out rate (a/k/a the inverse of his OBP) won't necessarily be a disqualifying factor (especially considering that his career will not, in fact, end today). And the fact that he racks up a lot of outs as a counting stat does not affect that analysis in any way. Total outs measures exactly the same thing as OBP, just not as accurately. It adds nothing to the analysis.

by taco pal on Dec 28, 2007 12:30 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
The very low (for a leadoff guy) OBP is the best reason I see at this point, assuming he stays on the current career path, to keep Jimmy out. He's never cracked .350, though he's now consistently close to that modest achievement (.348, .338, .334, .344 the last four years).

It's not like he's Shawon Dunston (good shortstop power but sub-.300 career OBP) by any means, but if he doesn't get the career mark up to .340 or so by the time he's done, that probably will mean enough else went wrong that he doesn't get enshrined.

by dajafi on Dec 28, 2007 1:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
this is something I've wondered about as well. at first I was very dismissive, but the benefit of being a full-time major league starter at age 22 (and a fairly good one at that) is hard to understate in accumulating counting stats. (winning a few Gold Gloves--deserved or not--can't hurt either.)

before this season I was debating with someone the chances of Rollins ever making 3,000 hits--I was extremely dubious at the time. but his durability (to this point) actually gives him a pretty good shot. Bill James' favorite toy (of course not an iron-clad predictor) gives Rollins a better than 33% chance at 3,000 hits, guessing that he'll play to age 35 and end up with a little over 2,700.

for what it's worth, I love watching Rollins play, but I don't think he's anywhere near the Hall of Fame, barring a string of 4-5 more 115+ OPS+ seasons and another 5+ years as a solid contributor after that (a scenario I don't think is particularly likely). of course I agree that he compares very favorably to Maranville and Rizzuto, but those two have some of the worst batting resumes in the Hall and got in more on personality and reputation than actual skill. put Rollins up against a non-HoFer like Alan Trammel or Vern Stephens and his case is less impressive.

by perfectdepth on Dec 26, 2007 4:32 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
His case might ultimately come down to a durability/counting stats argument. If Rollins gets north of 3,000 hits--unlikely but far from impossible--he's probably in no matter what. The runs seem likely to help, though as Dave notes he chews up an awful lot of outs while scoring all those runs. He's had good luck (or good skill, depending on how you view the question) with health thus far, and the fact that he's a shortstop (and a pretty good one) makes his rate stats look very good by historical standards and pretty good by contemporary ones. Alternately, if he puts up a few more years of 30/30 or even 25/25, he'll probably start looking like a serious contender for Hall honors.

When I first had the idea for this piece sometime over the summer, i was going to compare Rollins with a bunch of contemporaries--not just Jeter, but guys like Furcal and Renteria who are less obvious Hall of Fame candidates at this point. The MVP award changed the context, but in a couple years we should have a much better idea given that not only those guys should still be around and playing full-time, but the likes of Reyes and Ramirez will have more of a track record to compare.

by dajafi on Dec 26, 2007 4:44 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Huh, I beilieve that Jimmy Rollins deserved the MVP but I think if matt holliday played on the east coast more writers would have voted for him. That's what they were talking about. Jimmy Rollins got more regognition than holliday because he is more popular and known.

by gooplight00 on Dec 26, 2007 7:58 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
I always thought the Keltner List was a great way to evaluate a player's qualifications for the Hall.  It's not a be all, end all method, but it's a great start.

The fact that Rollins does fairly well using the list at this early stage of his career is a good thing. 
 The thing about Hall of Famers, mostly everyone in there (who actually belongs) started their careers at a very young age and were at least good players at the age of 21 or so.  That's what separates Rollins from Utley and Howard right now.

If Rollins maintains his peak for a few more years and ages well he has a shot I think. He might bemy Favorite Phil so I look forward to finding out how well he ends up doing in regards to a Hall of Fame career.

 

by smitty on Dec 27, 2007 2:33 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
That he was a full-time regular at age 22, and has been so ever since, is what might give him an edge over Utley and Howard. Interestingly, Rollins also has more HoFers and strong candidates in his Baseball-Reference comps than either of the Phils' other two star infielders.

by dajafi on Dec 27, 2007 3:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Utley, though, has the advantage of playing at a position where there are really no other stars.  He's clearly the best second baseman in the game; has been for three years (I just looked and forgot how good his 2005 was) and should be for a long while.  Rollins is in the top three or four for his position, but is not clearly the best, nor has he been for a couple of years nor will he certainly be for the foreseeable future.

by David S. Cohen on Dec 27, 2007 4:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
With Utley, assuming he keeps up his '05-'07 level for another eight years or so with a gentle decline phase to follow, I get the feeling that we'll have a good indication of his shot by how well Jeff Kent does.

As the link shows, Kent didn't have his first really excellent season until he was 30; Utley should have four by then. But Kent was consistently excellent for seven years, and had about seven other well above-average seasons on either side of his late but sustained peak.  He's likely to finish with over 2500 hits, 400 HR and 1500 RBI. Presumably that gets him in, even though he's universally acknowledged as a jerk and is likely an inferior defender to Utley.

by dajafi on Dec 27, 2007 4:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Jimmy Rollins: Hall of Famer?
Rollins would need at least 4 more seasons of similiar production to what he did last year.  If he did that and remained an above average player the rest of his career and played until 36, then I think he is in.

by jonk on Dec 28, 2007 11:42 AM EST   0 recs

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