Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
UPDATE: Arthroscopic surgery for Lidge! Three to six weeks recovery. Whether he'll be ready for Opening Day remains to be seen, but I doubt it. Don't you looooooooovve this team?

Well, it only took one pitch, but the Phillies' brand new closer/overpriced late inning reliever Brad Lidge felt a twinge in his surgically repaired knee while throwing off the mound, limped off the field and shut it down.
With limited information and insistence from all parties that it's nothing serious, I guess it's not time to fly off the handle, but I can't imagine that there's anyone not having Freddy Garcia flashbacks right now.
What are the odds that Brett Myers boobytrapped the mound to get his old job back? Trying to adorably recapture the national spotlight after the phenomenally successful Kyle Kendrick prank?
Myers (standing over Lidge, who is on the ground clutching his knee and writhing in pain): "You just got PUNK'D!!"
(graemlin courtesy j.karn)
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
My prediction: it's just a tweak. He'll be ready to go. There was no ligament damage in the knee, which is a far more serious problem, so if he felt a "pull", it probably was scar tissue.
Of course, it's not my knee, so what do I know.
by AWH on
Feb 24, 2008 8:53 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
Normally, I don't worry as much about knees as I do about elbows and shoulders. But with the Phils, you never do know.
If Lidge's knee really isn't a problem, I think he'll be excellent this year. But I'm always worriesd about Phillie injuries because they just are not honest about them.
by smitty on
Feb 24, 2008 9:25 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 12:14 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by Neduol Caz on
Feb 24, 2008 9:46 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by Baerwcb on
Feb 24, 2008 11:58 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by JasonB on
Feb 24, 2008 11:52 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by MattS on
Feb 24, 2008 5:44 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by JasonB on
Feb 24, 2008 3:35 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by schrifty on
Feb 25, 2008 8:19 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
Mathieson's emergence this season, while doubtful, would be really, really, really big.
by WholeCamels on
Feb 25, 2008 9:42 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by schrifty on
Feb 25, 2008 9:52 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
A smart team would plan around Romero being at best mediocre.
by WholeCamels on
Feb 25, 2008 10:44 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
The "mean" he is going to "regress" to looks like an ERA + of around 130. I'll take that.
Romero is a durable, hard throwing lefty who throws lots of ground balls and really cuts off the running game well. Yes, he has control problems. But most of the time he is effective, even with the poor control. He doesn't get hit all that hard and he keeps the ball on the ground and with Rollins, Feliz and Utley behind him he should be fine -- despite the walks.
I don't think anyone is thinking Romero will be "lights out." Right now it looks like Madson, Romero and Gordon will support Lidge with a couple of guys who throw hard but who haven't turned the corner yet (Durbin; Rosario; Bisenius; Castro; Zagurski; Smith and guys like that) fighting it out for innings at some point during the year. It's a plan that could succeed pretty well without Romero being "lights out."
by smitty on
Feb 25, 2008 2:49 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by schrifty on
Feb 25, 2008 3:05 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by Neduol Caz on
Feb 25, 2008 9:34 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
I also described the condition of the bullpen. It is a crew that can be good -- perhaps very good. But, as with most bullpens, it could also not be so hot. I think we all know how volitile bullpen pitchers are from year to year. But you are wrong about the arms of the guys competing for the last bullpen slots -- they have big league arms. They lack command and control but that might change. And with as many candidates as the Phils have, some of them might come through. It's better, in my view, than depending on a bunch of Turk Wendells and Roberto Hernandezs and guys like that.
And we all know that Smith and Zagurski are hurt. Mathieson (who I forgot to mention) and Bisenious are also recovering from owies.
You're a smart guy -- I'm surprised you misunderstood my post so badly.
by smitty on
Feb 26, 2008 2:33 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by Homer on
Feb 26, 2008 9:08 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
His career numbers are skewed badly by two very poor seasons early in his career when he was miscast as a starter. I think the last six seasons are more relevant to what we are discussing.
He has had two outstanding seasons, two very good seasons one mediocre season and one horrible season in his last six. That's not too bad. I think if he "returns to his mean", it will be a very good thing for the Phils.
by smitty on
Feb 27, 2008 5:03 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 12:17 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by MattS on
Feb 27, 2008 12:39 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
Romero does pretty good using the fancy stats like WxRL too.
by smitty on
Feb 27, 2008 1:54 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 2:07 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by perfectdepth on
Feb 27, 2008 2:08 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by perfectdepth on
Feb 27, 2008 2:14 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 2:28 PM EST
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by perfectdepth on
Feb 27, 2008 2:50 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 4:20 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
In any event, Romero's WHIP over that period was 1.40, which is so-so, but he also had a consistently good K rate and a 2-1 groundball ratio. If his ERA+ was 128 over the six years, then that doesn't necessarily sound implausible to me.
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 2:27 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by perfectdepth on
Feb 27, 2008 2:49 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 4:19 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
I don't expect Romero to be a great pitcher this year. But he has a pretty good chance of teaming up with Madson and perhaps a semi-healthy Gordon to provide very fine support for Lidge.
I expect some of the young (or semi-young) guys to have decent or better seasons. Mathieson or Bisenius maybe. Durbin, Rosario, Castro -- later Smith or Zagurski perhaps.
The Phils MIGHT have a strong bullpen this season. Bullpens are funny things. I think the Phils have quite a few guys who could have pretty good seasons. The trick will be identifying them and using them properly -- not really a Manuel strength it seems. I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out and hoping guys like Mesa and Alfonseca and the like do not take the mound for our heroes this year.
by smitty on
Feb 27, 2008 4:20 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
If you pitch the end of innings frequently, but not the beginning as much, you will have a lower ERA than you would if you started every inning. Consider a pitcher who only enters games with two outs. His runners have to score before no one gets out to count against his ERA. If you have give up a double every other batter and get a strikeout every other batter, you will give up 2 runs in every innings you pitch if you start them. If you do the exact same thing but starting every inning with two outs, you give up 0 runs in every inning. That's a part of the reason why relievers have lower ERA s than starters (though not the whole reason).
by MattS on
Feb 28, 2008 7:28 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by MattS on
Feb 28, 2008 7:29 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
The problem with your argument is that it proves too much. Any baseball statistic can be biased if you start your analysis by simply assuming certain hypothetical bias-favoring conditions to be present on a consistent basis. Reliever ERA is no different from any other statistic in that regard. But unless there's some factual or logical basis for that assumption - in this case, some reason why Romero would have consistently been used in the same way over six consecutive seasons - then that theoretical possibility doesn't provide any reason to simply disregard the statistic.
I don't think the mere fact that Romero is a lefty is a sound basis for that assumption. Yes, LH relievers sometimes enter games mid-inning to face specific lefty hitters. However, they also leave games mid-inning for the same reason. I don't see why lefthandedness would cause only the first condition without also causing the second.
by taco pal on
Feb 28, 2008 1:43 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
If you use other metrics -- more advanced ones -- he does well too. VORP and WxRL and that stuff.
He has a high WHIP but he overcomes that most of the time by keeping the ball on the ground and in the park and by cutting off the running game.
He is nearly the opposite of Jamie Moyer but he gets the job done most of the time too. Romero is one of the most consistent and durable middle/set up relievers around. He isn't great. But he'll most likely help the Phils win this year.
by smitty on
Feb 28, 2008 1:40 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
In my view the best way to use him is to start innings with him and let him pitch multiple innings at times. He can be an effective LOOGY but he is more valuable as a one inning or more guy.
by smitty on
Feb 28, 2008 1:44 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by Neduol Caz on
Feb 26, 2008 9:46 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
Lots and lots of relief pitchers don't establish themselves before they are in their later 20s. I'm not a big fan of stocking the bullpen with a bunch of veterans who are on their last legs. You remember the Turk Wendell who had a great first half for the Phils in 2003, but I remember the worn out guy who was slapped around for a 5.40 second half ERA and an .811 opponent OPS.
I think the best way to build a bullpen is to mix in veterans and young guys. I could be wrong. But I think that is the most effective way to build a bullpen.
by smitty on
Feb 27, 2008 5:26 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by David S. Cohen on
Feb 25, 2008 10:17 AM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
If he does happen to pitch the whole regular season without incident maybe the Phils should stick to signing pitchers on crutches.
by smitty on
Feb 26, 2008 2:37 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by AWH on
Feb 25, 2008 8:16 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
Personally, I think pants-crapping of all varieties can wait until we know some more facts.
by taco pal on
Feb 27, 2008 12:06 PM EST
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Re: Lidge tweaks knee; fans crap pants
by JasonB on
Feb 27, 2008 1:03 PM EST
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